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Thread: The Man Of Steel/Superman Movie Reboot Thread

  1. #776
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsfang View Post
    so what if at the end he didn't stop every two seconds to save random ppl. He was getting punched through ****ing buildings by an evil Kryptonian. It was more about trying to end it quickly to try and minimize the damage and loss of lives then it was wasting time trying to save every individual person which would have resulted in him not concentrating on Zod and thus he saves NOBODY

    But silly ppl on org can't seem to get that
    Quote Originally Posted by Hordak Alpha View Post
    They don't seem to get it in the threads about the MOTU comic book from DC either at times.
    I understand where those fans are coming from, but I don't agree. Sometimes even heroes do have to make the ultimate choice and take the life of their enemy. It's not an easy decision.

    The depiction of the hero in various media usually gives him a way out of killing, but this time Synder wanted him without that option. I don't agree with why he decided to do that so far...you don't have to actually catch a body to be against killing. However, if we see repercussions from Supes killing Zod in future sequels, then I might change my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hordak Alpha View Post
    They don't seem to get it in the threads about the MOTU comic book from DC either at times.

    Perhaps they do "get it" - but just don't happen to agree......? That is, one supposes, entirely possible...?

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    Excellent reboot of the franchise! i think it was quite a well made one and definitely on par with Donner's first 2 films, Burton/Nolan Batman, the DC animated films, Watchmen, V For Vendetta, History of Violence and Road to Perdition as one of the best DC films.

    Action packed and made Superman a better character for modern audiences.
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  6. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCanyon View Post

    Action packed and made Superman a better character for modern audiences.
    Modern audiences? The audience is always modern, but if you're speaking of an audience that expects more explosions, flashbangs, a la the mindlessness of Michael Bay's Transformers, etc rather than substance then sure, it's that.

    And as for Superman's killing of Doomsday, I seem to recall from reading the comic book way back then, once it was determined that Doomsday was basically a mindless killing machine, Superman finally decided to finish the job, whether he died or not.
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  7. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    Modern audiences? The audience is always modern, but if you're speaking of an audience that expects more explosions, flashbangs, a la the mindlessness of Michael Bay's Transformers, etc rather than substance then sure, it's that.
    THIS....

    I REALLY hate hearing the glory of the 'modern audience'. What the heck does that even mean? Modernizing Superman so that 21st century people can 'relate' to him??? What accomplished that??

    Fighting unstoppable villains, Utter destruction. Hard choices?? In what world do people actually live in? Superman has existed through WWII, Hiroshima, the civil rights of the 60's Vietnam... Modern audiences have zero right to claim any superiority as far as hardhips and mentality.

    If anything Modern America is producing the most immature generations in history. Fantasy and Sci fi are more popular than ever.

    Making superman kill is not a 'modern' sensibility. That argument has been going on decades. Heck Batman killed when he first showed up. Superman was simply BETTER than that.

    If you want to make it a 'modern age' superman... you do it by putting in computers and cell phones. Add in satelites and Iphones.. You get rid of the phone booths and typewriters. THAT'S modernizing something. Your getting rid of the old time stuff that people don't recognize... and add in the stuff from the modern world.

    The world does not change that much. Death destruction and the opportunity and percieved need to finish off an enemy has applied since civilization began. Zod was just as much a threat to the 80's metropolis as he would be to the 2013 metropolis.

    Crazy genacidal kryptonian is a threat WHENEVER you drop him in a world...

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    Heroic Warrior Epizo1's Avatar
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    The sticking point of him killing has no merit because there is precedence, so the argument is a few decades too late. If there are things others find bad about the film that is fine. But complaining about Superman killing, like it has never happened, is flawed. Specifically he killed General Zod from a pocket universe and suffered the anguish from that decision in the ensuing story arc. He rebounded from that moment and vowed never to do it again. Could that be where the next movie is going? I don't know but the point is that it has happened before so might as well take the argument to the writers of the comics first.
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    Heroic Warrior mbaker's Avatar
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    If they go that route where Superman makes this vow, and improves upon his powers, maybe this series has some hope. I think this shocking revelation to most people is obviously another instance of non comic readers unaware of such events much like how people who grew up with the Adam West 'Batman' shocked at hearing about when The Joker killed Robin, and not knowing that is wasn't **** Grayson, but rather Jason Todd. While I'm aware of how John Byrne dealt with this issue, I can understand how alot of you feel. Anyway, Moviebob weighs in on this particular issue regarding 'Man Of Steel'.

    Last edited by mbaker; June 19, 2013 at 10:22am.

  10. #785
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    I managed to get my chores done quicker then I had expected so I was able to see it again today afterall (I just got back 5 mins ago) and I have to say after seeing it a second time...

    IT IS EVEN MORE AWESOME THE SECOND TIME.

    Man I have this urge to go see it again
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsfang View Post
    I managed to get my chores done quicker then I had expected so I was able to see it again today afterall (I just got back 5 mins ago) and I have to say after seeing it a second time...

    IT IS EVEN MORE AWESOME THE SECOND TIME.

    Man I have this urge to go see it again
    WB has converted Wolf! They must be doing something right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    WB has converted Wolf! They must be doing something right!
    well I wouldn't say they have "converted" me as I still do not like the regular comics version of Superman or the Reeves / Routh ones but I do like this version of Superman
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    Still, must be pretty good if it made someone who doesn't like the character like the character (or at least this version of it).
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  14. #789
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    Modern audiences = fans who aren't attached to or grew up with Christopher Reeve as Superman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epizo1 View Post
    The sticking point of him killing has no merit because there is precedence, so the argument is a few decades too late. If there are things others find bad about the film that is fine. But complaining about Superman killing, like it has never happened, is flawed. Specifically he killed General Zod from a pocket universe and suffered the anguish from that decision in the ensuing story arc. He rebounded from that moment and vowed never to do it again. Could that be where the next movie is going? I don't know but the point is that it has happened before so might as well take the argument to the writers of the comics first.
    The merit comes from it JUST being a 2 and half hour movie. in the comics it was a MAJOR point of his life when he finally crossed that line... once. We had 50 years of him refusing to do that... and evenutally finding something that he felt there was no choice....

    in THIS movie, you could see that he didn't 'want' too... but you NEVER really got the whole 'vow to save lifes' that comic version does. Even Pa kent told him to let people die if he had to... so you don't have the core concept there being changed..

    There ISN'T the anguish, there was no rebounding and vowing afterward... It was simply one more option in his utility belt.

    Will they cover it in the next movie? I doubt it. In the comics he flew off intospace for a year, then came back and did the gangbuster mental breakdown... and I REALLY don't see them leading up to a JLA movie with a whiney emo superman... After the battle he jokes with general, and goes and starts a new life. Essentially having killed an getting on with his life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsfang View Post
    I managed to get my chores done quicker then I had expected so I was able to see it again today afterall (I just got back 5 mins ago) and I have to say after seeing it a second time...

    IT IS EVEN MORE AWESOME THE SECOND TIME.

    Man I have this urge to go see it again
    I think I'm going to go to watch it again this weekend, can't wait
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  17. #792
    Born A Monster wolfsfang's Avatar
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    the thing is that this is NOT the comic version of Superman so people should not expect it to be or for him to act in exactly the same way.

    Also for those that brought this up (here or elsewhere on the web) the reason that he didn't simply snap Zod's neck earlier was twofold

    1. He didn't want to do it, Zod left him NO choice.

    2. It was the first time since the two had begun fighting that he even had the opportunity to do it so even if he was always willing to kill Zod he couldn't until that point.

    As for being upset that he killed Zod, yes of course I think he was. I also think that scream he gives just after is also partly due to the fact that he has just made himself the last of the Kryptonians by his own hand. That has to be quite upsetting for him
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-Man View Post
    Still, must be pretty good if it made someone who doesn't like the character like the character (or at least this version of it).
    Or it could mean that they changed the character to make him more appealing to people who wouldn't like him otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    Or it could mean that they changed the character to make him more appealing to people who wouldn't like him otherwise.
    This is what it sounds like to me. There are a lot of people who are saying that they hated the old superman's because he was too powerful or too boring, when in nearly every movie or story they SOMEHOW made him the underdog somewhere...

    Honestly, I liked the movie quite a bit and am going to see it again this weekend too. I LOVE that they brought superboy back... that just makes me all sorts of giddy. While I disagree that we needed yet ANOTHER origin story for someone who's the most recognizable character on the planet... especially after getting that 10 year origin story in smallville... It was still handled pretty well.

    I can even tolerate lois figuring out his ID... since that's something that movies just CAN NOT GET RIGHT!!!! Seriously... Batman, Superman, spiderman, somehow they ALWAYS have to squeeze a love story in there somewhere... and they ALWAYS tell the girl. Despite how many YEARS they keep their secret in the comics or cartoons... somehow batman can't keep a secret for more than 2 hours in a movie...

    Ok... fine, lois figured it out, at least she used her own SKILLS to do it... so that's fine.

    But really, neck snapping, and too dark of a costume were my only big complaints. And while I think those go against the idea of superman... It's better then the absentee father superman and slutty lois we had in Superman returns.

    Another show that I had to buy... but really, THAT plot point drove me up a WALL...

  20. #795
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    Or it could mean that they changed the character to make him more appealing to people who wouldn't like him otherwise.
    DC has been trying to do this with Superman for years. Hell, the New 52 is a big attempt at getting rid of all of the iconic DC elements that casual fans had a problem with (Superman's underwear, Wonder Woman wearing pants, Power Girl's boob window, Aquaman being lame, etc.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    Modern audiences = fans who aren't attached to or grew up with Christopher Reeve as Superman.
    Amen, truer words were never spoken

    Saw it a 2nd time yesterday and loved it even more. I actually paid attention to the destruction and its interesting that almost 100% of it was done by the World Machine. Superman and Zod's fight leveled about 2 buildings entirely and then different floors of others. Even when Superman was raking Zod's face against a building all they did was break the windows, the structure stayed in tact.

    That is not too say that there was not destruction but I think a lot of fans are being a tad overdramatic in the amount of destruction Superman himself could have avoided. The World Machine brought by Zod killed almost all of those people, that was going to happen with or without Sueprman as Zod needed to terraform the city to bring about Krypton II.

    But that is neither here nor there at this point. People who did not like it are still not going to like it, the movie will make about $700-900m worldwide and be considered a smashing success. So going forward I guess we can hope more people will like the sequel, and if not wait about 5-10 years till they inevitably reboot it again.
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    Heroic Warrior Ivan's Avatar
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    There's a really funny article on io9 that I won't link to because it's full of swear words but here are two snippets:

    Superman: ... I’m going to take care of the World Engine thing in the Indian Ocean.

    Lois: Really? You’re going to try to destroy the one located harmlessly in the Indian ocean… over the one that’s the middle of the largest, most densely populated city in North America?

    Superman: Yes. Why do you ask?

    Lois: You know that these things send out gravity pulses that annihilate buildings, killing everyone inside them, and even if they’re outside they are lifted like a hundred feet in the air and then smashed down to the ground at high velocity?

    Superman: I know it’s going to kill people, Lois. That’s why I’m going to the one in the Indian Ocean. To destroy it. (Lois gives Superman a puzzled look as he flies off)

    Superman: What did I do?

    Zod: Hey, remember when you blew up that ship with all the tree pod babies? You committed genocide!

    Superman: But…

    Zod: No buts! You destroyed pretty much the entire last bit of the Krypytonian race, besides you, me, and those dudes you sent back to the Phantom Zone!

    Superman: Hey, you were trying to kill all of humanity with the World Engine thing!

    Zod: You know why? BECAUSE I’M THE ****ING VILLAIN. I’m evil; that’s what I do. Aren’t you supposed to be better than that?

    Superman: What else was I supposed to do?

    Zod: Well, you could have not destroyed my ship and concentrated on just defeating me. Then you could have restarted the Kryptonian race again and sent them to another planet or taught them to co-exist with humans or something. It wouldn’t have been that hard.

    Superman: But I saved humanity!

    Zod: Well, kind of. I mean, you still managed to let an area the size of Manhattan get completely annihilated. And thanks to the disaster porn-loving director, we got to see countless people getting killed, really emphasizing your inability to save them. Have you seen the estimated damage and death tolls from our final fight?

  23. #798
    Heroic Warrior mbaker's Avatar
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    After watching A number of videos from fans expressing their issues with 'Man Of Steel', I begin to see their point about how much Snyder, and Nolan may have crossed the line with Superman. While I did like some things in this movie, I have to agree that it was trying to be dark just for the sake of it. Like they made Superman more like Batman when he's not suppose to be Batman. I mean, I had alot of high hopes for Nolan, and saw some potential in Zack Snyder, but apparently, this was A combination that doesn't work very well. The video that got me was Doug, and Rob Walker's review. It'll be interesting to see if this film's success will continue to maintain itself before people soon realize that maybe this isn't the movie that makes Superman matter again. If anything, it may make people turn their backs on him more, and latch onto to glittering GQ vampires instead.

  24. #799
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbaker View Post
    After watching A number of videos from fans expressing their issues with 'Man Of Steel', I begin to see their point about how much Snyder, and Nolan may have crossed the line with Superman. While I did like some things in this movie, I have to agree that it was trying to be dark just for the sake of it. Like they made Superman more like Batman when he's not suppose to be Batman. I mean, I had alot of high hopes for Nolan, and saw some potential in Zack Snyder, but apparently, this was A combination that doesn't work very well. The video that got me was Doug, and Rob Walker's review. It'll be interesting to see if this film's success will continue to maintain itself before people soon realize that maybe this isn't the movie that makes Superman matter again. If anything, it may make people turn their backs on him more, and latch onto to glittering GQ vampires instead.
    Batman is seen as very cool in comparison and most seem to thing of Superman as being not as cool.

    There's a difference between the hardcore comic book fans who flip out over anything that isn't consistent with the comics and the mainstream casual audience who doesn't read the comics at all. I don't think the modern public will realize that anything is amiss and will like the new "modernized, non-Norman Rockwell" take on Superman. As most comic book movies show, most casual fans won't go into comic book stores buying the comics.

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    Heroic Eternian Mechanic TechTrek's Avatar
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    i think people are misrepresenting the words Darker, when they mean Realistic.


    obviously this entire thing is pretend, i understand that, but i think Nolan and Snyder wanted to make this "realistic'' just like bats, and in turn everyone else is throwing out the term "darker" because frankly, real life is darker than a comic book.

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