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Thread: The Man Of Steel/Superman Movie Reboot Thread

  1. #801
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Batman is seen as very cool in comparison and most seem to thing of Superman as being not as cool.

    There's a difference between the hardcore comic book fans who flip out over anything that isn't consistent with the comics and the mainstream casual audience who doesn't read the comics at all. I don't think the modern public will realize that anything is amiss and will like the new "modernized, non-Norman Rockwell" take on Superman. As most comic book movies show, most casual fans won't go into comic book stores buying the comics.
    But, even as a comic book fan, that wasn't my problem with the movie, or the problem I've seen brought up by many reviews. It's not that it isn't like the comics, it's that the movie was more about the big booms and effects than about the characters. I've seen words like "humorless" and "joyless" quite a few times. Even if I'd never read a comic book, I wouldn't have enjoyed what I was seeing because the film failed badly at getting me into the characters as they were being presented. Folks have seen the Marvel movies, where the characters are always center stage, with the events coming from them and their conflicts. Even with the trademark personality flaws all Marvel characters are given, the audience was able to connect with them on some very human level, even with gods like Thor. Somewhere in MOS, Clark and Lois became props to move the events and special effects along, and thus became hard to relate to. That's not a fanboy gripe because the film wasn't like the comics; it's a flaw in the movie itself, regardless of the source material.

    Here's where I'm coming from: take the Catwoman movie, a pretty bad failure as a film, mainly because the story of the evil cosmetics model and the bad make-up was poorly ripped off from a far better tale in Batman: The Animated Series. The main story was weak, to say the least. But I can still watch the film because the other part of the story, the tale of Patience becoming Catwoman and coming to terms with it, was something that worked because I was able to relate in some real way to the person behind the cat mask. Had the same sub-story been part of a solid main storyline, we might have gotten a good movie. The same can be said of Batflop and Ripoff, er, Batman and Robin, where the subplot of the conflict between the two heroes, Alfred's sickness and the nature of family could have formed the backbone of a good movie. Sadly, that got buried under technicolor, camp and a really bad script. I feel the same thing happened here, where the story of Clark coming to terms with his alien origins could have made for a solid, enjoyable flick if more time had been spent letting us get to know him as a person. There were times they tried, but the flashbacks were too disjointed and I often wondered what they were trying to say with them.

    Again, with me, it's ALL about the characters. I didn't feel for Clark as I should have, and I didn't get a clear picture of what was going on inside his head. If you don't care about the character, how do you care about what happens to him? That's a failure of the script and the director, not a problem with rabid fanboys.
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  2. #802
    Heroic Eternian Mechanic TechTrek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    I didn't feel for Clark as I should have, and I didn't get a clear picture of what was going on inside his head. If you don't care about the character, how do you care about what happens to him? That's a failure of the script and the director, not a problem with rabid fanboys.
    see for me, all of the flash backs in this movie made me understand clark FAR more than any other previous movies put together. I mean, they even show you as a child him freak out because of his powers and being able to hear everyone. how much more do you need to be in someones head than that?

    again, i am coming from the "never really cared for his character" place, so I can understand that i might now know the character as much as other people, but MoS made me actually like superman, and feel that the story is much more realistic.

  3. #803
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    I like this review

    All that said, I was grateful that they packed so much in there, and I loved all the history and thought that went into it. I loved Lois' role as the bridge between Clark and the world, and I loved that Zod is not just a zealot but ultimately a programmed drone carrying out genetically-coded orders. That reveal was the perfect bookend to Jor-El's worries at the start of the film, which of course were his whole rationale for his plans for Kal.

    I loved the whole terraforming idea and I loved how Superman enlisted the aid of the various humans to help him carry this out. Instead of feeling like a strained way to keep actors on-screen, it worked as a moment of shared and earned trust between them all, and I like that it made it Superman working with humans to save the day, instead of him just doing it all alone. It was a smart way to make the climax more than just a slugfest.

    As for the slugfest (and resulting snap fest), Zod had just tried to kill the entire population of Earth with a giant machine, and, failing that, tells Kal that he's now going to finish the job with his bare hands. They smack each other around, wreaking untold destruction and putting millions of lives at risk. To me, that scene at the end is essentially a metaphor or distillation of Clark's predicament - if I don't stop this guy he's just going to keep killing people, and I have nowhere to put him now. Yes, there was an easy way to send him to the Phantom Zone with the others, but I that would have been a weak ending. They needed to have a Mano a Mano fight, and really, after eveything that happened at that point, having him capture him in some contrived way would have been pulling their punches.

    The whole movie his two Dads are telling him to make his own choices and decide what kind of man he wants to be and how he's destined to change the world, and then he's placed in this impossible position where he has to make a terrible choice, and you can tell by his reaction he's not sure if it's the right one. I loved the moment for the fact that it was him coming face to face with reality after all the speeches and advice and wondering and avoiding his destiny. Metaphorically, it was the moment he finally grew up, and no longer needed his Dad(s).

    On that note, it's interesting how giving him choices was a liberation to Jor-El and a burden to Jonathan, and how both those sentiments intersect at that moment. He's able to do what needs to be done, he has the power to do so, but it's not an easy decision and it weighs on him. I like that this is not just an origin of his powers and suit and moniker, but possibly (hopefully) the origin of his moral code.

  4. #804
    Heroic Warrior Epizo1's Avatar
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    http://www.inquisitr.com/803112/man-...88381481237582

    I won't post critic blogs or articles because the split is almost even according to Rotten Tomatoes. Basically for every positive review there is a negative one. We'll be here all day going back and forth. I'd just rather look at the facts as in the article linked. It made money and the fans were more for it than against it at a good clip. The numbers show it even on RT. And MOS2 may come out as soon as next year. I don't know how I feel about that because rushing things could get sloppy or it could mean the writer and director have a definitive direction for the character which if that is the case, bring it on!!
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  5. #805
    Born A Monster wolfsfang's Avatar
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    people around the web (and here) seem to get upset that a large amount of civilians probably died in this movie

    Well

    look at all the destruction you see in the toons and comics, has anyone, have you, ever stopped and asked "what about all the civilians who died?"


    Somehow I doubt it.


    the supposed deaths of fictional civilians only seem to ever matter to people when they are live action fictional civilians.
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    Heroic Eternian Mechanic TechTrek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsfang View Post
    people around the web (and here) seem to get upset that a large amount of civilians probably died in this movie

    Well

    look at all the destruction you see in the toons and comics, has anyone, have you, ever stopped and asked "what about all the civilians who died?"


    Somehow I doubt it.


    the supposed deaths of fictional civilians only seem to ever matter to people when they are live action fictional civilians.
    thats a good point. with the way panels are done in comics, we hardly ever see it, and are pretty numb to the idea of it because its not our focal point. next time i watch an episode of superman, or justice league i am goign to look for it.

  7. #807
    Born A Monster wolfsfang's Avatar
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    In the animated movie "Superman: Doomsday" Supes fights Doomsday in Metropolis and at the end even flies with the monster from space right into the middle of Metropolis creating a massive shockwave which devestates MANY buildings and leaves a huge crater. Unless the WHOLE of Metropolis was evacuated in super obscene record time you can pretty much guarantee that many people would have died during that fight, a lot of them due to that last devastating attack by Superman himself
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  8. #808
    Heroic Warrior Wulf-Gar's Avatar
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    I am a pretty solid Superman fan before this movie, and now I see the MoS superman as separate from the comic book superman. Separate but equal. I loved MoS and i eagerly anticipate a sequel. I hated Christopher Reeve's performance as Superman, and Routh was just a pale shadow of Reeves. This is honestly the first movie Live Action superman where i completely enjoyed the whole performance. I'm starting to have faith in DC's ability to put together a cohesive movie-verse.

  9. #809
    Heroic Eternian Mechanic TechTrek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsfang View Post
    In the animated movie "Superman: Doomsday" Supes fights Doomsday in Metropolis and at the end even flies with the monster from space right into the middle of Metropolis creating a massive shockwave which devestates MANY buildings and leaves a huge crater. Unless the WHOLE of Metropolis was evacuated in super obscene record time you can pretty much guarantee that many people would have died during that fight, a lot of them due to that last devastating attack by Superman himself
    yet not a soul has said anything about the deaths that superman has been involved in. you do bring up some interesting points wolfy. I didnt think of comparing it to animated stuff.

  10. #810
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechTrek View Post
    yet not a soul has said anything about the deaths that superman has been involved in. you do bring up some interesting points wolfy. I didnt think of comparing it to animated stuff.
    Yup, everyone likes to avoid that fact that the DCAU is almost as violent as MoS

    In this scene he punched Darkseid through 6 buildings, you think all those were 100% empty? And does Superman go back to save them or check?



    DCAU Superman was bad ass , we just don't see the people he hurt on screen. Bruce Timm has said on numerous occasions that the collateral damage in the DCAU is real we just don't focus on it. He discussed at length at Wizard World Chicago in 2008 the buildings are not empty and that the collateral damage is epic.
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  11. #811
    Heroic Warrior Captain Atkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    But really, neck snapping, and too dark of a costume were my only big complaints. And while I think those go against the idea of superman... It's better then the absentee father superman and slutty lois we had in Superman returns.
    .
    The reason Lois had the kid in Superman Returns was because she was intimate with Clark (once) in Superman II. The Christopher Reeves/Margot Kidder movie set up that plot point, and they went with it by saying that she had got pregnant. I don't really like the story they came up with for Returns either, but calling the character slutty because her and Superman were intimate is a bit much. Yes, she moved on to another man after Superman left for 5 years, but that hardly makes the character slutty. If anything, it makes her human.
    Last edited by Captain Atkin; June 21, 2013 at 04:58pm.

  12. #812
    Former fan fic writer Hordak Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Yup, everyone likes to avoid that fact that the DCAU is almost as violent as MoS

    In this scene he punched Darkseid through 6 buildings, you think all those were 100% empty? And does Superman go back to save them or check?
    Probably the case, but wouldn't you think Superman, with his ability to see through objects and the fact that he supposedly moves faster than a speeding bullet, scanned those buildings before he hurtled Darkseid through them? True, the buildings weren't empty, which would be a stupid, illogical cop out, but I'd want to think Superman would adjust the trajectory he was going to send Darkseid in to avoid the sections of buildings where people wouldn't be at that moment.

    If Superman really was that reckless with his strength, it brings to mind Batman's point of who is supposed to keep Superman in check in 'Dark Knight Returns'. If Superman can't do it, someone else would have to.


    Then too, Superman hurling a super villain through more than likely occupied buildings is a bit reckless in theory. But, what can one expect him to do, swoop the villain up and relocate to uncivilized terrain? The kinds of enemies Superman has faced in all of the different media technically wouldn't let him get that close or give him enough time to do it, so the fights are going to happen in the streets of Metropolis.
    Last edited by Hordak Alpha; June 21, 2013 at 08:25pm.
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  13. #813
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hordak Alpha View Post
    But, what can one expect him to do, swoop the villain up and relocate to uncivilized terrain? The kinds of enemies Superman has faced in all of the different media technically wouldn't let him get that close or give him enough time to do it, so the fights are going to happen in the streets of Metropolis.
    Thus collateral damage that Superman cannot control nor has the time to worry about, see you proved my point. Its just a side effect of the threats he faces and the manner in which he is forced to fight. He tries to spare people when he can, but ultimately people will get hurt and that is not on him as much as its on the villain who forced him to have the battle in public space.

    People are only having a moral and ethical conniption fit because its live humans they see being hurt instead of cartoon humans we do not see. The battles do not really change, MoS battle is just on a grander scale but people still die or are injured in both instances.
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  14. #814
    Heroic Warrior sportsandstuff777's Avatar
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    I loved it! totally enjoyed MOS I would see it again. I hope we can get that Justice League movie already
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    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechTrek View Post
    see for me, all of the flash backs in this movie made me understand clark FAR more than any other previous movies put together. I mean, they even show you as a child him freak out because of his powers and being able to hear everyone. how much more do you need to be in someones head than that?

    again, i am coming from the "never really cared for his character" place, so I can understand that i might now know the character as much as other people, but MoS made me actually like superman, and feel that the story is much more realistic.
    It's funny how different that scene is from the 1978 Superman flick when teenage Clark is racing his classmates home and beat them using his super speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsandstuff777 View Post
    I loved it! totally enjoyed MOS I would see it again. I hope we can get that Justice League movie already
    I'd rather have a slow, but steady build up, Marvel style. Some people actually sat through the credits for MOS hoping that there would be some kind of after the credits scene that pointed toward the next movie.

    In MOS II, after the credits, they could mention a man running around in a Bat costume or how a warrior woman slew a monster in some city before Superman could get there.

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    Heroic Eternian Mechanic TechTrek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Atkin View Post
    The reason Lois had the kid in Superman Returns was because she was intimate with Clark (once) in Superman II. The Christopher Reeves/Margot Kidder movie set up that plot point, and they went with it by saying that she had got pregnant. I don't really like the story they came up with for Returns either, but calling the character slutty because her and Superman were intimate is a bit much. Yes, she moved on to another man after Superman left for 5 years, but that hardly makes the character slutty. If anything, it makes her human.
    see, the humanizing it. is a double edged sword. to say its human to have sex before marriage really..... lowers the bar.....

    that being said I have a few things to say.

    1. I realized after reading this article that I was tricked into liking superman in this movie, because they made him wolverine.
    2. my artist on my comic has a great write up on it as well:

    I think this editorial best represents to me what issues I had with the Man Of Steel flick, and why I disliked it so much. It's a tragedy to me in our society that we can no longer relate to our heroes, that they become unrealistic for their virtues or what they represent, and so we feel the need to drag them down to our levels. We change them to represent us, and to justify our own feelings of hopelessness, selfish intentions, and justification of the actions we know in our hearts to be wrong. Marvel Superheroes have, and always will, represent who we are, our weaknesses and our failings, as they struggle to do right. DC Superheroes, however, have always been who we should be, who we aspire to be. They don't need to learn right; they are born with an innate sense of justice, compassion, and empathy, and show us a better version of ourselves to strive to be. If we can't relate to a Big Blue Boy Scout, I respectfully submit that it says more about our current society's ethics and views than the "realism" of a kind stranger from another world who believes in only doing good in the world. Meanwhile, I'll proudly wear my underpants on the outside and continue to try to leave the world a better place than I left it .


    and here is the link to the article:

    http://www.comicsalliance.com/2013/0...share_facebook

  17. #817
    Born A Monster wolfsfang's Avatar
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    well since we seem to be moving on to the topic of Superman Returns I would like to give my two cents on a few things to do with that movie, tho first I must say that it is not a very good movie.

    anyway

    1. Superman was not a deadbeat dad. He didn't even know he had a son until the movie by which time the kid was already growing up in a loving family and superman probably figured why break up the kids home?

    2. Superman lifting the island of Kryptonite. I think people seen to overlook the fact that it was not true kryptonite but was instead an artificial version that was created from the crystals when they entered the water. Now while they may have had the same properties of the kryptonian rock from which kryptonite is formed they probably did not have as a high a degree of the radiation that true kryptonite would have picked after the explosion of krypton and it's sun and then it's subsequent trip through space (which has a lot of radiation in it). Now this does not mean that the natural radiation of the rock would not be enough to affect superman, clearly it was, but its low levels meant he had enough time to deal with the threat before he succumbed to its affects.
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  18. #818
    Heroic Warrior gbagok's Avatar
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    Eh, I think it's not asking for too much to say Superman needs to show more concern for the humans getting caught in the crossfire than he did in this new movie. A few reactions shots is all I'm saying was needed. I won't stand in the way of the all-important apocalyptic imagery, but dear God even the animated Superman got to show more concern for only implied violence than this live Superman did for shown violence. Again I say a sequel should really work with this as much as it can. That rumor about Luthor using it would especially have legs if he can point out that Kal-El's actions also basically drew the Kryptonians to Earth. Is that really Clark's fault? Well no more than Captain Stacy's death in the Amazing Spider-Man was Peter Parker's fault--but both being heroes, they won't and maybe shouldn't wash their hands of responsibility so easily either. Our advantage as an audience over the critics that might exist in these characters' worlds is we can see their turmoil, or we should anyway.

    RE the fight with Zod, I have a hard time criticizing Superman for killing Zod (and not quickly enough?) when Zod was so clearly a Doomsday level menace. He was trying to hurt people. What's more I think he really wanted Kal-El to kill him. In that last struggle, all he had to do was LOOK AT people to kill them, and instead he chose to slowly cut a path along the wall to his victims as slowly as Goldfinger's laserbeam? I don't remember if Clark was trying to hold his head down, but it seemed like Zod had a clear line of sight the whole time. Either that was just badly staged (and I can see some believing that's all it was), or he wanted to force Clark to kill either by action or inaction in that moment. It's not like they turned Clark into Dirty Harry by including that scene. Though as I've said, that combined with too few reactions earlier made it feel like the filmmakers just weren't giving it the right level of consideration. As far as mistakes they could have made, I think we can recover from this. After all, even 89 Batman put guns on the batmobile and batwing.
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  19. #819
    Heroic Warrior Epicasino's Avatar
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    I found this review which pretty much sums up my take on this movie:
    http://www.comicsalliance.com/2013/0...r-david-goyer/

  20. #820
    Heroic Warrior Epizo1's Avatar
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    Pardon the expletive in the headline of the article but the rest is a good read. I found it entertaining and informative. It's about the 4 complaints about MOS. Enjoy.

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  21. #821
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Yup, everyone likes to avoid that fact that the DCAU is almost as violent as MoS

    In this scene he punched Darkseid through 6 buildings, you think all those were 100% empty? And does Superman go back to save them or check?
    A good point, but the DCAU had everything this movie didn't to balance it out. There was violence and action in all the DC toons, but it was part of a story and actually gave you insight into the characters.
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  22. #822
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    Was it enjoyable? Yeah...My problems..
    - Perry white is not black, and does not have an earing. But the actor was good.
    - There is so much shoot flying around the screen and the cuts are so fast, your eye's don't have time to see any of it and enjoy it.
    -Product placement, product placement, product placement!
    "He is not our enemy...now, lets all restock our amunition as he flies past the sears hardware logo...."
    i mean, way to ruin a good moment money grubbers...

    as for the movie...
     
    are we to assume emil hamilton is stuck in the phantom zone, along with that army guy? all those guys are still alive...
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  23. #823
    Awesome Warrior Alexx's Avatar
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    I enjoyed it! Not as dead serious as I was fearing it would be - at least, not to a boring degree.

    My only problem comes in with the whole kiss he and Lois share in the middle of the devistation and then when he kills Zod, it's all tears. I assume it's all built up from EVERYTHING, but I would have liked to see him on his knees when he finally lands after the ship takes back the rest of Zod's crew. Ya know, looking at the smoking crater that is a good chunk of the city and mourning that loss and wondering what he could have done differently. I mean who knows what he could have done - but I would have liked to see it in him. I don't need him moping around and forced into inaction, but a mournful reaction rather than a kiss would make Zod's rise from the rubble work better. Zod's death and Superman's cries of anguish would have also been more poignant if he had at least reacted to the devistation before him rather than gettin' his mack on.

    BUT...I'm sure that can be argued. I mean if he had reacted that way and THEN went on his super-powered DBZ fight with Zod like he did, then you'd wonder why he was so saddened but not enough to keep from knocking through buildings. There's a lot to argue there, however. I don't know how hard it is to control a superfight, after all. If Superman had run away, trying to lure Zod from the city - would Zod have followed? Who knows. I guess the whole "wreck the city in our superfight" thing always bothered me when I was a kid. Standard practice, but at least some stories talk about it at the end, like: "We paid a huge price, but at least the whole of humanity is safe" and junk like that. There just didn't seem to be enough mind being paid to the thousands and thousands of lives lost.

    ...unless the whole thing about Lex Luthor in a sequel is true, 'cause all this could make a next movie VERY interesting.
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  24. #824
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    The MoS opened today and I went to the first possible screening. Holy **** it was awesome. It was the beast! I haven't been this emotionally touched by a movie in years (X-men: First Class excluded). By far the best superhero movie in recent times. Avengers, Captain America, Thor, DKR, Iron Man 2&3 all feel kinda flat when compared to this (though Dredd, Kick Ass and X-men:FC were awesome). I don't know where to begin. I can not understand the mindset and thought processes of the reviewers. Were we watching the same movie? Too long? Too little drama and character developement? What?!

    I thought the movie had a great story and themes, and it told them with style and without underlining them in every turn. On a personal scale I felt it easy to relate to the driving question "if the world saw me as I am, would I be welcome to be a part of it, or would the world reject me." Superman indeed was a role model I'd personally like to follow into the sun. And Lois Lane was adorable. I really liked how trust and caring evolved between her and Kal-El. And that kiss. It is not often I "aww" at a kiss, but this was just an "aww" moment.

    And the magnitude of destruction in Metropolis was a very welcome breath of fresh air (of death) in supermovies. Yeah, when Titans battle, the little people on the battlefield tend to get crushed. And, and the death of Zod. Beast.

    This movie left so much that can be addressed in the sequels. Like:

    • How does taking a life change Superman?
    • Would he do it again if necessary?
    • Who defines what and when is necessary?
    • How do people react to the massive devastation that this attack caused?
    • How does Kal-El feel about it? Will he beat himself over? Blame himself for not doing more, saving more lives?
    • Does the world at large know about Superman? Or do they just know that there was a battle with aliens and the world won?
    • The people who knew Kal-El as a child and saw him battle. Do they know?
    • Will Kal-El have a private life separate of Superman in the future?


    There were few things that I disliked, but just few. And with all the good/great stuff those few things are easy to shrug of. I'll definitely see this again, buy it when it is released and see the sequels if such are made. Hopefully we'll get sequels.
    Last edited by Heidi; June 26, 2013 at 08:12am.
    "The most difficult thing is trying not to forget who you really want to be." - Nong Toom

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  25. #825
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Virginia Beach, VA, USA
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    440
    You bring up some good points there Heidi.

    As for those of you who had trouble keeping up with the fights I think you need to get your eyes checked or watch some anime.

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