Fortress of power

[Replikor]

Just posted more photos on fb. If someone wants to post them here, by all means. Can't do it from my phone.

can we please get a link to this face book page so we can go see these pictures?

I really wanna see what this custom project ended up lookin like in the end.

Specifically what color scheme; 200X, vintage toy, filmation, etc; was used has me very curious to see this!!

[bishart]

can we please get a link to this face book page so we can go see these pictures?

I really wanna see what this custom project ended up lookin like in the end.

Specifically what color scheme; 200X, vintage toy, filmation, etc; was used has me very curious to see this!!

here you go.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/On-Dea...53030601395875

they are also on the previous page of this thread. thanks!

[Kid Cash]

Glad you have send an update. Thank you. What is the best way to reach you guys? At least those people who "support" your project should be able to get through to you once in a while.

[bishart]

Glad you have send an update. Thank you. What is the best way to reach you guys? At least those people who "support" your project should be able to get through to you once in a while.

thanks. id say ben.bishart@gmail.com is best for now. thanks! just to say hey, our Facebook wall is best.

[Dark Sorceress]

ps: i really dont mean to come off nasty. hope i dont. just please continue to do your best to be patient. we are working really hard.

na man your cool, you told us when the weather and other things got in the way, and we know this is not your day job so i for 1 am in no rush

[BadVermin]

It seems as if there are at least two projects Ben is working on and both are very late.

This thread was just brought to my attention and I first would like to say that I can empathize with many of you.

Unfortunately, I am going through a similar situation with Ben "Bishart" at this thread here:

http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/fo...=92561&page=55

I have now subscribed to this MOTUC thread and will follow it closely.
I hope that you all can do the same in the MONACO thread at the link I posted above.

If there are any new developments please share and I will absolutely do the same.

We must all communicate well with each other regarding this matter.

[bishart]

It seems as if there are at least two projects Ben is working on and both are very late.

Yes. The Monaco project is one that I tackled alone without ben a. And it's even more behind. Dealing with many of the same snags along the way. I'm in the process of having to re do the mold on that one, which is expensive and time consuming. I have communicated with them just as I have here, so no one should think I'm trying to pull te wool over anyone's eyes. It's just what I've been saying this whole time, the fortress is not the only thing we have going on, we both have several other jobs being working artists, and for me these two in

Particular are very challenging, and honestly, I don't think it's any secret, we underestimated the difficulty of the whole process. But we are working on it, and figuring it out as we go. We have never done something this large and everything about it is a learning experience.

Also. I'm away until Monday. So I won't be able to respond until I'm back. So it's not me ignoring you. Please feel free to send me questions and I'll dedicate some time to responding when I'm back. If you could though, please send them to my personal email ben.bishart@gmail.com so I can keep everything in order. Thanks!

[Gemus203]

Interesting.....This sheds a bit of light on things and unfortunately confirms my concerns.

[Dark Sorceress]

he's been in contact and honest with us this hole time so i think some of us are over reacting.....but i'm a 3A fan so i'm used to some delays lol i ordered the 3A Zombkin Oct. 31st and he's just now starting to ship

[OutForJustice]

Interesting.....This sheds a bit of light on things and unfortunately confirms my concerns.

Email bishart at his private address or send me a pm with your specific concerns.

So, as number 4 I loose the ladder as a perk?

The first 6 were supposed to get an extra accessory, not sure what it was, it could be the ladder, but with the lack of communication it's impossible to say.

We still have something in store for those first few which we wanted to keep a surprise.

According to the solicitation email I received from Ben in April 2011 "we can begin actually casting this thing, as early as next week". This item is over a YEAR late, with no schedule update.

Something to think about that might add a bit of perspective here is how long it takes the big toy companies to execute an idea. Images of upcoming figures are usually released at Toy Fair in February. The toys usually don't hit until Fall, in time for the holiday season. Full distribution oftentimes doesn't happen until after the new year. That's nearly a year already. And that's not taking into consideration all the work that goes into them before Toy Fair. What we see in February are not concept sketches, but test shots (usually hand painted) from the molds overseas. Which suggests there is a lot of time involved just to get them to Toy Fair.

Ben and I worked together for a toy inventor doing proof of concept work, prototyping and illustration. His clients were Hasbro, Playmates, and Mattel among others. We saw firsthand how long it took for an idea to reach any sort of conclusion. The project I started on was also one of the last I worked on when I left over two years later. I watched my boss take the idea first to Fisher Price, then Playmates, then watched it ultimately get scrapped. Obviously our cottage industry set up is a lot simpler than that, and we can circumvent a lot of those difficulties, but my point is that there is unseen work, time, and money that goes into every toy that debuts in NY in February and ends up in our hands 6 or 8 months later.

I'm not trying to make excuses. The reason you guys have waited so long is because WE made a mistake, which was showing the piece at too early a stage, and I fully own that. Had we not made that mistake, you guys wouldn't have had to underwrite our learning curve throughout the whole thing. So I'm sorry about that, and so is Ben B. But we are also the kind of people who don't accept defeat, especially with creative endeavors. And we certainly would not walk away without making good or reconciling a situation. I guess you just have to take my word on that.

Ben A.

[Gemus203]

Ben and I worked together for a toy inventor doing proof of concept work, prototyping and illustration. His clients were Hasbro, Playmates, and Mattel among others. We saw firsthand how long it took for an idea to reach any sort of conclusion. The project I started on was also one of the last I worked on when I left over two years later. I watched my boss take the idea first to Fisher Price, then Playmates, then watched it ultimately get scrapped. Obviously our cottage industry set up is a lot simpler than that, and we can circumvent a lot of those difficulties, but my point is that there is unseen work, time, and money that goes into every toy that debuts in NY in February and ends up in our hands 6 or 8 months later.

This statement confuses me. You are basically stating that you guys knew going into this project that it could take two years or more? If this is the case, why was this information not disclosed to the "interested" parties? I "joined the club" in April of 2011 and fully expected to have my "membership card" by Christmas of 2011 at the latest. I began inquiring about status on a bi-monthly basis around October of last year. The initial responses to my inquiries were polite and cordial but by early 2012 it became apparent that I was seriously irritating you guys. Politely asking for an update once every two to three months seemed completely reasonable to me, so I assumed that other "club members" were complaining and I was catching some of the fallout.

I can accept delays and even broken promises, but I can't continue to accept lack of communication. Finding out about the "Monaco" project really ticked me off. I kept telling myself that you guys had just bitten off more than you could chew, but to knowingly have two separate projects going at the same time is ridiculous and just plain irresponsible. I have sent Ben B. a PM.

[OutForJustice]

This statement confuses me. You are basically stating that you guys knew going into this project that it could take two years or more?

No. I actually said that we underestimated how long the next leg of the project was going to take when we first released images of the WIP sculpt, not that we knew it was going to take two years.

I can accept delays and even broken promises, but I can't continue to accept lack of communication.

Well you certainly have our attention now.

Finding out about the "Monaco" project really ticked me off. I kept telling myself that you guys had just bitten off more than you could chew, but to knowingly have two separate projects going at the same time is ridiculous and just plain irresponsible.

It takes more than one project in order to make a living off of this kind of stuff. Bishart and I are both working artists, we do freelance and client work all the time and fun stuff like the Fortress of Power to keep it interesting. We fell behind on this project and are working to get ahead again. We're sorry for the lack of communication.

[Kid Cash]

I guess you just have to take my word on that.

Ben A.

I have been screwed by Chris Howes, Figuremaster Les, Hanouman and Blind Voyer lately. So I have become pretty nervous if something is going in an unexpected direction. But if you would be willing to forward some more information to the supporters (eg send out a newsletter with a status update now and than, which isnt too much I believe), your two guys word would be enough for me. I am perfectly fine with waiting until next year as long as I know that something is indeed moving. Further I totally appreciate that you guys dont try to hide that you underestimated it, but admit the errors that occur. I prefer this over some blabla happy day updates.
From my side everything is fine for now. Thanks guys!

[BadVermin]

We're sorry for the lack of communication.

Then please fill us in with a detailed update on the project.

[BadVermin]

I am compiling a list of people who are waiting on items from Bishart. If that is you, please PM me for details.

[Sallah]

I am compiling a list of people who are waiting on items from Bishart. If that is you, please PM me for details.

I know of a couple of folks who no longer post on forums that are part of the Fortress list as well (they too moved away from MOTUC while waiting for this project to be completed). I will see if I can reach them for you to get them on the list.

Sallah

[nemesis15425]

i have been excited to see this project completed from day one. these guys did such an amazing job, and i had hopes of getting one of these even though i don't collect the classics line. as an amature model maker, i totally understand time restraints and getting behind, esp. when things don't run smoothly. i'm not going to say i'm happy i never got around to ordering one, because i'd still like to get it, but i do feel bad for those who paid out and are kept waiting. i hope this gets worked out for everyone, because i don't think these guys have intentions of hurting anyone.

[OutForJustice]

Then please fill us in with a detailed update on the project.

I have to agree with this. Where exactly are you on this and what steps are done?

Hopefully the .Org moderators understand that it's not possible for me to relegate this to private messages right now, and breaching the 'no discussion of sale/reproduction" policy is necessary here. We informed people who contacted us through the On Deadly Ground FB page that we are working on these in 5's. They will be completed and shipped 5 at a time. We are still on the first batch, and here's why we aren't farther along. Aside from the main piece, which is done from the large mold as a hollow lay-up casting, there are 7 additional molds involved with the piece (lower wall cover, upper wall cover, door, flagpole, laser gun, gun turret, ladder). There is a considerable amount of labor that goes into casting each component of this piece. It is not a "set it and forget it" type of process. The main body of the Fortress needs to be built up in layers manually with a brush. Some of the smaller molds can be poured, thrown into the pressure pot and allowed to cure on their own. But each piece still needs to be chased individually, meaning any flashing along the mold seam needs to be cleaned up and sanded and air bubbles or voids need to be filled, before it can be painted. The cast on we finished on June 1st that is on display at Coast City Comics is the test shot (the first cast from the mold) and is the only one we have brought to completion.

You have already told us you won't refund our "membership fee" because you spent all the money on supplies... but where is it?

It went into the large mold we made and then remade, all the secondary molds, mold release, gloves, brushes, respirators, resin stock, plastic stock, and trial and error with materials, some of which we didn't even end up using. And those are just some of the material costs, not to mention compensation for time spent working on this thing. Believe me, before this is said and done, we will have made no profit. Mostly because of the trials we had to go through with each new material and logistical challenge. Much of this is an unavoidable part of the process, and had I known that, I would have figured more of it out before involving you guys.

The excuse before was that it was too cold to make them... but we are hip deep in one of the hottest summers ever, and nothing seems to be happening. At what stage was the project when it became too cold to proceed, because it seems as if the warm weather has been around for awhile now and things should have moved right along?

I was told back at the beginning of May that you would start on the first 5 and they could expect to receive theirs in a month. It is now almost August, and if I am not mistaken, those first 5 aren't done. So that is almost 3 months now (on top of the months before that where none were made).

Since we were as transparent as possible throughout this whole process, even when we hit a snag, the answers to some of your questions can be gleaned by looking back on this thread. But I will recap. The original mold we made in May 2011 failed, so did our initial casting material. And since you were wondering where the money went, some of it went into the ez-spray plastic (our initial material) and gun, which ran nearly 1k. We remade the mold in November/December of last year, after having to salvage the original sculpt. By then it was winter and we had nowhere to cast. I spent January-April or so building a space (also noted in this thread) and polishing off the molds to the smaller pieces. After another month or so of testing out a new material (polyester resin) we emerged with the first finished piece, mentioned above. The smaller components of that first cast used yet another new material (a polyurethane plastic which mimics ABS plastic, the kind used in a lot of toys), which we have decided to use for the main body as well. We haven't made big strides since the piece we showed at Coast City. We haven't reached the point where we have something worth revealing that you haven't seen already. We have several pieces cast that need clean up, and we will be purchasing more material soon to keep the casting flowing. That is where we stand, up to the minute.

Or if a monthly schedule does ever happen, does that mean a 10 month turnaround at least? So we went from being a few weeks away in April of 2011... to the middle of 2013 (at the absolute earliest) for those late on the list?

Yes.

It is time to start showing what is done here and offering firm dates on completion of this project. Receipts for product that the money went to, in progress shots of the first five, a definitive schedule on the rest of the lot, and perhaps even a list of "replacement" supporters (since you have said many times that you have to turn people away all the time) to sub in for those of us who want out of this now.

Well, a firm date is not something I'm willing or able to give. Giving dates so far hasn't served you guys or us very well. We will begin showing pictures more regularly. That is a much more accurate forecast anyway. Receipts aren't available for most of the materials, just what we've spent in the last couple months. And we are creating a mass email to everyone currently on the list. It will address your other requests.

I am compiling a list of people who are waiting on items from Bishart. If that is you, please PM me for details.

If you want to play detective, that's fine. There will be a mass email. We are not being intentionally secretive about anything.

Ben A.

[Son of Keldor]

Looks like this thread is going up for discussion.

"Anyone who has dealt with them Privately need to continue to deal with it Privately here via PM or on the On Deadly Ground FB page. We take no responsibility on the Private deals they have made w/ individuals."

We are Re-Opening the thread so that Both Ben's can communicate w/ any Updates and Information for the fans.

With that being said...

Any further Open Discussion of the production and any monies that were entrusted to this project will be Deleted and Warnings or Infractions will be given accordingly and the possibility of the thread being LOCKED indefinitely.

Thanks, Gabe =)

[Dark Sorceress]

im too good to you all.
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7884907_n.jpg

getting back to the good stuff.....EEEEEEE it looks so cool

[bishart]

Yeah! Thanks for the love. Mass email went over great! Thanks for your support.

[AdultCollector]

Remember the Mighty Max mini playsets? I'd love to see you make something like this for MOTU.

[kevin]

anybody "in-the-know" have any "inside info" or otherwise updated status on this project?
DYING for SOME kind of news!

[BadVermin]

anybody "in-the-know" have any "inside info" or otherwise updated status on this project?
DYING for SOME kind of news!

They are no longer communicating with fans in the forums, the ONLY place to get news is on their Facebook page.... for which I do not have an account.

[Rich]

So are we ever going to receive our Fortress or what???