The M.A.S.K. Racing Series Discussion Thread

[Vanquest]

The Racing Series is an alternate universe:

1- It belongs to COOKIE JAR. Brian Ward confirmed so.
2- The origin/backstory is different: Mayhem was a co-partner of Matt Trakker and they created M.A.S.K. together. Then, Mayhem created V.E.N.O.M. to compete with M.A.S.K. An origin slightly similar to the comic book which accompained the early toys, not the original cartoon series where MASK and VENOM are totally unrelated.
3- MASK is a race team, not a secret, anti-terrorism organization supported by PNA (Duane Kennedy).
4- VENOM is a race team, not a terrorist squad with OBVIOUS criminal past and "social status".
5- MASK agents have no secret identities nor civilian jobs.
6- No mention of the "past" Season 1 adventures, no continuity-related cohesion with them anyway (read the points above).
7- New masks with silly powers, not designed to fight terrorist actions. Shroud, Eclipse, Totem.
8- Mayhem's... twin brother.
9- Brad Turner, Dusty Hayes, Clutch --- their lives and MASK functions are different.
10- 10 episodes, not even a full 65-episodes season. Screams alternate spin-off.
11- More importantly: in the Racing Series the VENOM helmets are as much powerful as the MASK ones, if not more (see Powerhouse/Samson and what it does). In the original series, the MASK helmets were much more powerful because charged via Trakker's ancient crystal, which generates an incredible and unlimited amount of (mysterious) energy.


About poor identity covers:

I still don't understand why:

1- Alex Sector wears the same civilian suit/clothes as Megabyte, and his hands are not covered by gloves at all (remember: fingerprints). This is extremely poor identity cover. Jackrabbit is a half-face mask, so that's even more risky.

2- As Magic, Bruce Sato doesn't wear gloves too. Again, that's pretty dangerous, given the fact VENOM could record his fingerprints and discover his real (civilian) identity.

3- In his RHINO and VOLCANO Hunter uniforms (let alone the Coast Patrol suit), Trakker has no gloves. Surprising.


About DVD releases:

UK Lace sets suck. Video has a lot of telecine judders.
German sets are very good.
French sets are very good.
Australian Madmen sets are very good.

[Coptur]

I can see your points but I always assumed that there where 'missing years’ between the two seasons.

When we were younger my brother and I would often play games to bridge the gap between the seasons.

It’s been a while since I watched MASK but the some things do cross between both shows Nash Gorey and Outlaw spring to mind. Terrorist groups do and can change how they operate look at the original IRA, some of them were released as known terrorists and some are now politicians and now seek to discuss their issues instead of using illegal activities.

Miles Mayhem took Venom towards racing as a way to gain profit instead of terrorist activities...that's one thing that bugged me about MASK why were Venom terrorists?? What were there motives?? Who funded them??

Mmm analysis ------

Miles a decorated Colonel before he created Venom, had a rich family like Matt Trakkers. Miles helped fund the MASK project with Matt (just a simple rich boy and tech head like his father) and Matt’s father, whom was given the power source of the mask by a tribe in season 1. Now we know Matts father died, was he killed in a suspicious accident in Miles' lab??

Going with that Miles (now even more of a greedy *******) knew what he could gain through the power source and mask technology thus he creates VENOM they cause havoc robbing banks etc... Matt is already a multi millionaire and has a lot of investments and probably has many businesses’s (ok I know this is thin ground) but I don't think Miles would suspect him being the man to run MASK.

Matt ensured all agents were civilian and with low-key jobs but with all the necessary qualities any good anti terrorist squad requires.

Season 1 happens

A big battle happens vehicles are destroyed Miles and the rest of Venom are defeated by MASK, arrested and then put on trial (all vehicles are then scraped and Miles personal fortune is then frozen). Due to the magnitude of Miles escapades the trial is public and Matt has to give evidence and at this point reveal who was behind MASK all along.

Due to some legal loop holes blah blah blah Miles is released uses Maximus Mayhems’ fortune to build/create Venom the race team cue new vehicles/Masks 'non violent'. Max not being a bad guy (I feel Max is very naive and has that blind trust one has with their identical twin) believes Miles changed his ways agrees to happily go along. Matt knowing that Miles is likely lying also reforms MASK and directly employs those that wish to become MASK agents once more thus them leaving there jobs.

Season 2 - the events of the last episode feel more important.

Well I know it’s full of holes but that's the way I always looked at it.

And what would 80's cartoons be without all those glaring obvious plot holes? Lol

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

I'm wondering if you're talking about the final M.A.S.K. season, when I was Senior Story Editor at DIC. Ray Dryden and I wrote thirteen episodes in two weeks and I also served as story editor for the ones Ray wrote.

The story is that I was sitting in my office at DIC one day and the president, Andy Heyward, comes in and says, "I need an 'Olesker Job'." (Which was Andy's parlance for 'fast and great.' I alwyas kind of liked that. ) He told me "Pick a writer, then you and him go home for two weeks and come back with thirteen half-hour scripts for M.A.S.K." That's exactly what I did. Ray and I set up a hotline, working around the clock and calling each other at three and four in the morning. I confess some of the weaponry was a bit bizarre, but we had a lot of fun creating it and we were intentionally trying to push the envelope and be a little tongue-in-cheek.

I had M.A.S.K. and V.E.N.O.M going all over the world on races -- Baja, Palm Springs, etc.

Your Cookie Jar reference may be because I wrote and story edited that season of the series when I was at DIC, and DIC was later acquired by Cookie Jar so their library was folded into Cookie Jar.

Mod: May I cut and paste this into the new M.A.S.K. thread...or, if I'm not allowed to, would you kindly do it for me?

Thanks,

J
Post moved from Eamon's thread.

[Dagar]

I doubt I'll cover all of the points you've made, Vanquest, but I'll still continue my counter-argument. You cite "hundreds" of fans and an inference that season 2 is set in an alternative universe; why have I never read or heard or had moment to consider this bearing in mind I've been following the franchise (even though it hasn't developed significantly in over twenty years) ever until now?

To match some points, though:

1- It belongs to COOKIE JAR. Brian Ward confirmed so.

My counter-argument is that IDW publish reprints of the original Transformers comics but are not allowed to feature Marvel Comics characters such as Circuit Breaker, so does this mean she is written out of continuity? No, it's just a rights deal.

2- The origin/backstory is different: Mayhem was a co-partner of Matt Trakker and they created M.A.S.K. together. Then, Mayhem created V.E.N.O.M. to compete with M.A.S.K. An origin slightly similar to the comic book which accompained the early toys, not the original cartoon series where MASK and VENOM are totally unrelated.

The reality with season 1 of MASK is that there is no back-story. The only bit of pre-series information you have comes from Green Nightmare, if I recall correctly, which relates how the crystal used to energise the masks of MASK was discovered. Season 2 offers little more on any origin. The nature of shows like MASK back in the day was that they often didn't develop the back story, they just built upon the principles of the show.

3- MASK is a race team, not a secret, anti-terrorism organization supported by PNA (Duane Kennedy).

Why is Duane in one of the episodes and working with MASK in the same way as he did in the first season, then?

4- VENOM is a race team, not a terrorist squad with OBVIOUS criminal past and "social status".

With no offence to Jack, this is a fair point, but they do still function in the same role, just with seemingly no-one taking them to task. Possibly because, unsurprisingly, it's a show for kids with a toy-selling intent and they need to be back in the next episode.

5- MASK agents have no secret identities nor civilian jobs.

This is a case where one of the principles of the show is ignored. It's basically like if Adam spent the last twenty episodes without Cringer around to turn into Battle Cat when he turns into He-Man. It's not a case of erasing him from history or changing the background, it's just a case of not utilising a feature of the show.

6- No mention of the "past" Season 1 adventures, no continuity-related cohesion with them anyway (read the points above).

Very few occasions of episode-to-episode references in the original season, either. One episode features T-Bob lamenting different things that have happened to him when he and Scott have gone on adventures, which is either a case of the same writer referencing his previous episodes or the work of a clever story editor.

7- New masks with silly powers, not designed to fight terrorist actions. Shroud, Eclipse, Totem.

That's subjective, any of the masks could be called silly. You're letting personal opinion attempt to form a fact.

8- Mayhem's... twin brother.

... Could've joined the show. Introducing new characters is nothing new. Bruce Sato's twin brother, if he had one, could join the show at some point and it wouldn't be a sign of the show developing an alternative universe.

9- Brad Turner, Dusty Hayes, Clutch --- their lives and MASK functions are different.

How so? Need to explain this one.

10- 10 episodes, not even a full 65-episodes season. Screams alternate spin-off.

You scoffed at my "She-Ra is a He-Man spin-off" point earlier, again your last comment is subjective. Are you prepared to apply the same principle to The Rebirth/season 4 of Transformers.

11- More importantly: in the Racing Series the VENOM helmets are as much powerful as the MASK ones, if not more (see Powerhouse/Samson and what it does). In the original series, the MASK helmets were much more powerful because charged via Trakker's ancient crystal, which generates an incredible and unlimited amount of (mysterious) energy.

Powerhouse was in the first season first, so flawed argument.

As with the thoughts of several on this forum, Vanquest, whilst your enthusiasm is not doubted, your statement of your opinion often is muddled with what you believe to be fact. You're then hindered further by your tendency to exaggerate, which is why you are not always taken seriously by some, including myself.

You would've been less likely to provoke a response from myself on this occasion if your position had started with "Do you think that the second season is set in alternative universe? I do.", as opposed to your statement of "The second season IS set in an alternative universe.". The first example invites welcome debate, the second example may invite opposition, derision and, sometimes, scorn.

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

I can see your points but I always assumed that there where 'missing years’ between the two season.

When we were younger my brother and I would often play games to bridge the gap between the seasons.

It’s been a while since I watched MASK but the some things do cross between both shows Nash Gorey and Outlaw spring to mind. Terrorist groups do and can change how they operate look and the original IRA, some of them were released known terrorists and are now politicians and now seek to discuss there issues instead of illegal activities.

Miles Mayhem took Venom towards racing as a way to gain profit instead of terrorist activities...that's one thing that bugged me about MASK why were Venom terrorists?? What were there motives?? Who funded them??

mmm analysis ------

Miles a decorated Colonel before he created Venom, had a rich family like Matt Trakkers. Miles help fund the MASK project with Matt (just a simple rich boy and tech head like his father) and Matt’s father, whom was given the power source by a tribe in season 1 but can't quite remember. Now we know Matts father died, was he killed in a suspicious accident in Miles' lab??

Going with that Miles (now a even more of a greedy *******) knew what he could gain through the power source and mask technology thus he creates VENOM they cause havoc robbing banks etc... Matt is already a multi millionaire and has a lot of investments and probably has many business's (ok i know this is thin ground) but I don't think Miles would suspect him being the man to run MASK.

Matt ensured all agents were civilian and with low-key jobs but with all the necessary qualities any good anti terrorist squad requires.

Season 1 happens

A big battle happens vehicles are destroyed Miles and the rest of Venom are defeated by MASK, arrested and then put on trial (all vehicles are then scraped and Miles personal fortune is then frozen). Due to the magnitude of Miles escapades the trial is public and Matt has to give evidence and at this point reveal who was behind MASK all along.

Due to some legal loop holes blah blah blah Miles is released uses Maximus Mayhems’ fortune to build/create Venom the race team cue new vehicles/Masks 'non violent'. Max not being a bad guy (I feel Max is very naive and has that blind trust one has with their identical twin) believes Miles changed his ways agrees to happily go along. Matt knowing that Miles is likely lying also reforms MASK and directly employs those that wish to become MASK agents once more thus them living there jobs.

Season 2 - the events of the last episode feel more important.

Well i know its full of holes but that's the way i always looked at it.

And what would 80's cartoons be without all those glaring obvious plot holes? lol

Well said and touching on some germaine thinking regarding the final season. I'll get to this in greater detail when I've a few moments. The IRA reference was particularly incisive.

[Firefly]

Whether season 2 is in the same universe or an "alternate" universe, bottomline is that it was all a part of the same show. Continuity issues and changes to characters happened to a good number of shows in the 80s. The main goal of season 2 was to sell the Wave 3 toys.

[byinfernoslight]

No offence Vanquest, but I don't like the way you call the thread 'The MASK definitive thread' and then immediately state that 'the Racing Series is an alternate universe' as though it were fact.

It isn't fact - it's just your opinion.

For a moment when reading the post I thought that your 'alternate universe' theory had been officially announced by someone in charge but it seems not (unless you want to correct me, Jack?). Please could you add 'I think' to the start to avoid confusing anyone else.

I'm not trying to start a fight here, or wanting to cause offence - I just hate it when people state things as fact when things haven't been proven as such.

[Dagar]

byinfernoslight - If there was a "Like" button for your post, I would've pressed it. Good to see you have the same view against opinion over fact.

[Vanquest]

Hello my guys!

Let's talk about this thread, it's useless and a bit offensive to go into "universal(?) perspectives" on my personality - for instance, I was never "derided" or "NOT taken seriously" here, it never occurred (and I joined this forum many years ago). My usual claim "This is the greatest cartoon of..." is just a funny way to express my enthusiasm, not an attempt to dictate any laws on the forum or the people inhabiting it.

Said that, I was just expressing an opinion/elaborating a theory, and BEWARE I'm Italian, English is not my main language, sometimes I can got the wrong "feeling" and be unfairly misinterpretated, despite my good if not great English grammar. Hopefully I'm clear now.

Finally, MASK. I can see how my theory can be debunked. Anyway, I talked with a lot of fans throughout my Internet MASK fandom (which started in 2000) and they have always expressed their genuine concern and several doubts about the MASK continuity and the Racing Series being a true follow-up in terms of universe and "in-fiction".

But I can see how you see it's a proper follow-up.

There's a middle way. Even if in Continuity 1 MASK never turns into a race team, we can always assume they will adopt those new masks and uniforms one day... just for the sake of it. Lol.

Whether season 2 is in the same universe or an "alternate" universe, bottomline is that it was all a part of the same show. Continuity issues and changes to characters happened to a good number of shows in the 80s. The main goal of season 2 was to sell the Wave 3 toys.

Of course, that's true.

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

Whether season 2 is in the same universe or an "alternate" universe, bottomline is that it was all a part of the same show. Continuity issues and changes to characters happened to a good number of shows in the 80s. The main goal of season 2 was to sell the Wave 3 toys.

You are correct about the main goal. However, I will tell you from personal knowledge that the rights' holder was aware that goal was best accomplished through exellent story telling that created an engaging story, thus drawing viewers into the world of the characters.

I've been fortunate, throughout my experiences with toy manufacturers and executive producers, to have been associated with executives who understood and embraced this fact, in the process granting me considerable creative latitude. There was, however, one instance of a cereal maker that insisted only on selling product through an animated series. It was one of two concepts during my thirty-year career that I refused to develop.

[Vanquest]

3- MASK is a race team, not a secret, anti-terrorism organization supported by PNA (Duane Kennedy).

Why is Duane in one of the episodes and working with MASK in the same way as he did in the first season, then?

7- New masks with silly powers, not designed to fight terrorist actions. Shroud, Eclipse, Totem.

That's subjective, any of the masks could be called silly. You're letting personal opinion attempt to form a fact.

I know about Duane, but at the time I just felt his presence on the Racing Series as being an innocent nod, and not a true continuity "hook". I could be wrong, even.
Forgot about Powerhouse (also known as "Samson")!

Don't get me wrong, I love Shroud, Eclipse and Totem, especially Totem.

You are correct about the main goal. However, I will tell you from personal knowledge that the rights' holder was aware that goal was best accomplished through exellent story telling that created an engaging story, thus drawing viewers into the world of the characters.

True, I love the Racing Series.

Miles a decorated Colonel before he created Venom, had a rich family like Matt Trakkers. Miles help fund the MASK project with Matt (just a simple rich boy and tech head like his father) and Matt’s father, whom was given the power source by a tribe in season 1 but can't quite remember. Now we know Matts father died, was he killed in a suspicious accident in Miles' lab??

Nice call. Anyway, there is no revenge behind Matt's actions, so I guess Miles Mayhem never killed his father, wife, brother or whoever is in his family.

Rather, I would assume Miles Mayhem stole part of the project without knowing there was Matt Trakker behind it in toto, maybe Miles assumed Matt ONLY co-funded it. As a producer.

There's an episode in which Mayhem wears a "magic mask" and see through Spectrum, discovering Hunter is Matt Trakker. Well, someone here remembers what Miles said about his amazing discovery...?
(He recognized Sato too, so I guess Bruce is a very famous engineer, or maybe Miles could have crossed his name during the MASK project's early development stadiums).

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

No offence Vanquest, but I don't like the way you call the thread 'The MASK definitive thread' and then immediately state that 'the Racing Series is an alternate universe' as though it were fact.

It isn't fact - it's just your opinion.

For a moment when reading the post I thought that your 'alternate universe' theory had been officially announced by someone in charge but it seems not (unless you want to correct me, Jack?). Please could you add 'I think' to the start to avoid confusing anyone else.

I'm not trying to start a fight here, or wanting to cause offence - I just hate it when people state things as fact when things haven't been proven as such.

I will say that I categorically agree with your position on making declarative/definitive/blanket statements. (As an aside, I will say I also understand Van's point about English not being his naitve tongue. I made an ill-fated decision many years ago to have a two-month relationship with a French model. It didn't work out. So I know things can get unintentionally lost or twisted in the translation.)

However, I will say that I think there is a serious danger in saying "This sucks" or "This is the way it is" or "I know this is to absolutely be true..." when, in fact, what we're doing is expressing our opinion. Having an opinion about something, no matter how strongly we hold it, is very different from making an uncontrovertible statement like "I know sugar is sweet."

Byinferno is quite right in saying -- with regard to non-definitive matters -- it is much better to say "In my opinion this sucks" or "I believe this is the way it is."

I'm not going to get into politics or religion, but I will say that these kinds of definitive/blanket statements are an on-going problems in The Tar Swamp. I feel (notice how I put 'I feel' in there? ) that when one says, "Palin sucks" or "Obama's a terrible president" or "Christians are wrong" or "Atheists don't know what they're talking about" then it backs people into a corner.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and strongly held beliefs. But when one makes a definitive statement it doesn't allow other's to have their position. You are not only expressing your opinion but also telling other's that their opinion is wrong.

Moreover, little is accomplished by definitive statements that are used in place of expressing opinions. As the creator of THE NEW ADVENTURES OF HE-MAN, I've had plenty of criticism over the years (and thankfully plenty of praise). I not only am fine with criticism, I welcome it. But I welcome it most when it is civil and constructive and expressed as an opinion rather than a blanket/definitive statement that doesn't allow me to defend my own position. When you express an opinion in a way that is definitive there is no chance for conversation or analysis or discussion. Rather than "NA sucks", it's just so much better to say, "I think parts of NA suck...and here's why." (And when people go on to tell me they think Skeletor's eyes sucked in NA because they were all bug-eyed or they felt the scientists sucked because they were irritating, I sometimes not only understand their position, I actually agree with them.)

My point here is that it's great to express opinions, but it's not great to be dismissive of others' right to their opinions. Opinions lead to intelligent discussion, illumination of ideas that may be different than our own and sometimes unexpected knowledge and insight. How about we all try to work toward civility?

[FAKER II]

You are correct about the main goal. However, I will tell you from personal knowledge that the rights' holder was aware that goal was best accomplished through exellent story telling that created an engaging story, thus drawing viewers into the world of the characters.

That's what I love about growing up as a kid in the 80's. Both the toys and cartoons were engaging and really pushed the boundaries of where your imagination could take you. BTW, I know you are best known on this site for your work on the New Adventures of He-Man but you'll always be a bigger hero to me for working on M.A.S.K. What I like most about M.A.S.K. is that for an action show with good guys vs. bad guys, there was hardly anything in the show that constitutes as violence and yet it will still very entertaining.

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

That's what I love about growing up as a kid in the 80's. Both the toys and cartoons were engaging and really pushed the boundaries of where your imagination could take you. BTW, I know you are best known on this site for your work on the New Adventures of He-Man but you'll always be a bigger hero to me for working on M.A.S.K. What I like most about M.A.S.K. is that for an action show with good guys vs. bad guys, there was hardly anything in the show that constitutes as violence and yet it will still very entertaining.

After an extremely grueling week, you have absolutely made my day, my friend.

As I said, I always welcome criticism; but it's sure nice to hear a kind word on occasion.

Kim and I will raise a couple of glasses of Guinness to you tonight, Faker.

Best,

Jack

[Dagar]

Vanquest:

Beyond the somewhat pretentious "universal perspectives" of your personality comment (which is not a comment I originated), I would clarify that you were not the subject of derision, rather I was stating that your potential approach was.

I would state however that there are times where you have put yourself up for criticism when you've made comments that cannot be taken seriously because of exaggerating. You have now reflected on these exaggerated statements and I hope you do cease using them.

You've also stated that this thread is now based on statement of opinion rather than perceived statement of fact, which is far easier to work with.

I'll stick to my point that I've never seen or heard people discussing or agreeing with your theory. I'll need a little more than your reference to fully believe it because it's akin to citing a list you've made up in your head.

Onto some of your specific points...

I know about Duane, but at the time I just felt his presence on the Racing Series as being an innocent nod, and not a true continuity "hook". I could be wrong, even.

There's a case of going on feeling rather than fact again.

There's an episode in which Mayhem wears a "magic mask" and see through Spectrum, discovering Hunter is Matt Trakker. Well, someone here remembers what Miles said about his amazing discovery...?

I've not seen the episode in a few years because it's not one of my favourites due to the poorer animation, however I am sure that, despite your comments elsewhere, the use of codenames is not employed.

[Firefly]

You are correct about the main goal. However, I will tell you from personal knowledge that the rights' holder was aware that goal was best accomplished through exellent story telling that created an engaging story, thus drawing viewers into the world of the characters.

I definitely agree with that. You said that 13 episodes were written for M.A.S.K.'s second season. Do you know why only 10 were produced?

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

The Racing Series is an alternate universe:

1- It belongs to COOKIE JAR. Brian Ward confirmed so.
2- The origin/backstory is different: Mayhem was a co-partner of Matt Trakker and they created M.A.S.K. together. Then, Mayhem created V.E.N.O.M. to compete with M.A.S.K. An origin slightly similar to the comic book which accompained the early toys, not the original cartoon series where MASK and VENOM are totally unrelated.
3- MASK is a race team, not a secret, anti-terrorism organization supported by PNA (Duane Kennedy).
4- VENOM is a race team, not a terrorist squad with OBVIOUS criminal past and "social status".
5- MASK agents have no secret identities nor civilian jobs.
6- No mention of the "past" Season 1 adventures, no continuity-related cohesion with them anyway (read the points above).
7- New masks with silly powers, not designed to fight terrorist actions. Shroud, Eclipse, Totem.
8- Mayhem's... twin brother.
9- Brad Turner, Dusty Hayes, Clutch --- their lives and MASK functions are different.
10- 10 episodes, not even a full 65-episodes season. Screams alternate spin-off.
11- More importantly: in the Racing Series the VENOM helmets are as much powerful as the MASK ones, if not more (see Powerhouse/Samson and what it does). In the original series, the MASK helmets were much more powerful because charged via Trakker's ancient crystal, which generates an incredible and unlimited amount of (mysterious) energy.


About poor identity covers:

I still don't understand why:

1- Alex Sector wears the same civilian suit/clothes as Megabyte, and his hands are not covered by gloves at all (remember: fingerprints). This is extremely poor identity cover. Jackrabbit is a half-face mask, so that's even more risky.

2- As Magic, Bruce Sato doesn't wear gloves too. Again, that's pretty dangerous, given the fact VENOM could record his fingerprints and discover his real (civilian) identity.

3- In his RHINO and VOLCANO Hunter uniforms (let alone the Coast Patrol suit), Trakker has no gloves. Surprising.


About DVD releases:

UK Lace sets suck. Video has a lot of telecine judders.
German sets are very good.
French sets are very good.
Australian Madmen sets are very good.

Okay, so let me weigh in on this. To begin with, I'd like everyone to know that I neither take offense at criticism nor expect everyone to like my work. I bring my heart and soul to my work. Most times I succeed in creating quality entertainment -- one does not survive three decades in this businss junless you do create quality content most of the time. Sometimes, however, I fail. It's the nature of the creative process and I always try to learn where I went wrong. Having my mistakes pointed out to me, btw, is one of the things I love most about the board because it helps me to continue to improve my work. But I always bring my best efforts to my writing, producing and directing.

Next let me say that my work on M.A.S.K. was a long time ago in a galaxy... (Well, you get the point. ) I've written over a thousand episodes of television and I can't count how many television series I've been involved with. This is not to sound boastful, but instead so everyone will hopefully understand it's impossible for me to remember every single element and nuance. Too, time does blur some of my recollections.

With that said...

1- It belongs to COOKIE JAR. Brian Ward confirmed so. I'm sure that's true, but it was originally produced by DIC. DIC was subsequently acquired by Cookie Jar, and folding in DIC's library was one of the parts of the deal. As an aside I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that Andy Heyward -- DIC's president -- was one of my mentors. Andy taught me much about both the creative and business elements of the entertainment industry and I am grateful to him beyond measure.

2- The origin/backstory is different: Mayhem was a co-partner of Matt Trakker and they created M.A.S.K. together. Then, Mayhem created V.E.N.O.M. to compete with M.A.S.K. An origin slightly similar to the comic book which accompained the early toys, not the original cartoon series where MASK and VENOM are totally unrelated. That's quite true. I liked the comics backstory better and consciously chose to favor it. Chef's choice.

3- MASK is a race team, not a secret, anti-terrorism organization supported by PNA (Duane Kennedy). 4- VENOM is a race team, not a terrorist squad with OBVIOUS criminal past and "social status". Life is organic and ever-changing. It was some years between the two series and the characters moved on to other interests, like competitive racing. Moving to an alternative universe to do that, btw, is not necessary.

5- MASK agents have no secret identities nor civilian jobs. True again. And your point is?

6- No mention of the "past" Season 1 adventures, no continuity-related cohesion with them anyway (read the points above). So?

7- New masks with silly powers, not designed to fight terrorist actions. Shroud, Eclipse, Totem. That's a subjective opinion and you're entitled to it. You might want to think, however, about re-phrasing as "It's my opinion the new masks had silly powers" rather than making it a definitive statement...especially when a writer worked very hard to create those masks.

8- Mayhem's... twin brother. Kindly refresh my memory about this and what your point is.

9- Brad Turner, Dusty Hayes, Clutch --- their lives and MASK functions are different. And why is this a problem?

10- 10 episodes, not even a full 65-episodes season. Screams alternate spin-off. True -- and I stand corrected about having said it was thirteen. This was the toy company's call, so I don't know what their motivation was. But I don't see why it would mean it was an alternative spin-off.

11- More importantly: in the Racing Series the VENOM helmets are as much powerful as the MASK ones, if not more (see Powerhouse/Samson and what it does). In the original series, the MASK helmets were much more powerful because charged via Trakker's ancient crystal, which generates an incredible and unlimited amount of (mysterious) energy. A lot of time has passed between the two seasons, so you fill in the blanks -- the crystal was stolen, its power ebbed, etc. Does everyhting always need to be spelled out?

I will give you a definitive answer however -- and I can give it because it's not a opinion but rather my intent as the writer and story editor of that season: I never intended the season to be in an alternative universe. Rather, I saw it as picking up the story some years later, with all the characters having new interests and, in some cases, new interrelationships. Time marches on and people change. That's called 'growth' and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

That's enough for now. I've got a gorgeous Irish angel waiting for me to take her for dinner at our local pub. So I'll sign off and come back later.

I'll leave with one last note to everyone else besides Vanquest that's in this thread:

A few of you have taken issue with Vanquest's positions and his expression of them. I think we've covered how it's best to state opinions as being opinions rather than statements of fact. But I do want to point out that not only does Vanquest have a right to his opinions and criticisms of the series and certain elements in it, but I think it's great that he feels that way. I will vigorously defend his write to take issue with the final season and to deliver well thought out criticisms of some of its elements. Detailed analysis of a series and disagreement with certain parts of it demonstrates a fan's dedication to that series and that's not only healthy but a tribute to the impact that series had on the fan. As I've often said, writers/producers/ directors/toy companies are nothing without fans. So whether a fan loves what I've done, has problems with it or thinks my work sucks, at the end of the day I'm grateful that they have a passion for the entertainment industry in which I have labored for so long.

So I'll end by saying "Thank you, Vanquest, for your continuing interest in M.A.S.K."

[Vanquest]

I would state however that there are times where you have put yourself up for criticism when you've made comments that cannot be taken seriously because of exaggerating. You have now reflected on these exaggerated statements and I hope you do cease using them.

There's an episode in which Mayhem wears a "magic mask" and see through Spectrum, discovering Hunter is Matt Trakker. Well, someone here remembers what Miles said about his amazing discovery...?

I've not seen the episode in a few years because it's not one of my favourites due to the poorer animation, however I am sure that, despite your comments elsewhere, the use of codenames is not employed.

Don't see how my exaggerating (? where?) can hurt anyone. Said that, I don't see where I've criminally "exaggerated".
Anyway, we talked about this via PM and I'm glad to have found a new MASK friend!

Sometimes "IMHO" is there, it's just that it's boring to stamp it all over the place. Each thread in this board is born from a personal opinion/theory. "IMHO" is obvious to the point you don't need to remind that anymore. I don't see why you're building such a sophisticated structure against me.

Codenames are not there. BUT, the episode was good if not great, and Mayhem reacted in a certain way when he discovered "the leader of MASK" (for the toys and the Commodore 64 game: HUNTER) is Matt Trakker. That could help us to decipher the mystery about the timespan in-between the first season and the second one (if they ever belong to the same universe, IMHO ).

2- The origin/backstory is different: Mayhem was a co-partner of Matt Trakker and they created M.A.S.K. together. Then, Mayhem created V.E.N.O.M. to compete with M.A.S.K. An origin slightly similar to the comic book which accompained the early toys, not the original cartoon series where MASK and VENOM are totally unrelated. That's quite true. I liked the comics backstory better and consciously chose to favor it. Chef's choice.

3- MASK is a race team, not a secret, anti-terrorism organization supported by PNA (Duane Kennedy). 4- VENOM is a race team, not a terrorist squad with OBVIOUS criminal past and "social status". Life is organic and ever-changing. It was some years between the two series and the characters moved on to other interests, like competitive racing. Moving to an alternative universe to do that, btw, is not necessary.

7- New masks with silly powers, not designed to fight terrorist actions. Shroud, Eclipse, Totem. That's a subjective opinion and you're entitled to it. You might want to think, however, about re-phrasing as "It's my opinion the new masks had silly powers" rather than making it a definitive statement...especially when a writer worked very hard to create those masks.

So I'll end by saying "Thank you, Vanquest, for your continuing interest in M.A.S.K."

2/3- The point is, the classic series created a coherent universe run by coherent logic. Yeah, they wanted to sell toys, but in the end they sold toys using a secret super-organization aimed to stop VENOM and every calamity in the world. Wow. MASK used secret identites for a reason and nobody in the world was supposed to be able to connect Trakker to MASK for a reason --- see Batman and any other DC Comics superhero! And most importantly, MASK used the greatest and most incredible & outstanding technology in the world ("GULLIVER" could miniaturize things!) and IMHO it's very surreal a super-organization equipped with such a gorgeous technology turns into a race team just because "life goes on". LOL. You can save the world, and the guys just did that in the "First Season", but now they want... to compete on strange races with strange trophies to win ???
I'm not bashing the Racing Series, which I like a lot. Don't get me wrong. I'm just hypothizing in the universe where - IMHO - the Racing Series is set, those races have an absolute social/economical value and MASK must adhere to that value in order to save the world.

7- I love Totem, I love the masks. I know the term "silly" could evoke the concept of "sucking", maybe I've been a bit un-polite (I was trying to make some humour), but please just remember I love the masks, and I vastly appreciate your visionary work on the Racing Series.

Thank you so much for dedicating your time to explain your "creative pattern" on this thread and... I loved the N/A, which I don't consider as being an alternate universe, all in all. Lol.
And of course, I love MASK to the nth degree, so thank you so much for having delivered the Racing Series!

But I welcome it most when it is civil and constructive and expressed as an opinion rather than a blanket/definitive statement that doesn't allow me to defend my own position. When you express an opinion in a way that is definitive there is no chance for conversation or analysis or discussion. Rather than "NA sucks", it's just so much better to say, "I think parts of NA suck...and here's why."

You'ren't talking about me, right? Because I expressed my opinion in a very civil manner and exposed my reasons in a very civil manner. I motivated my theory. Love and Peace, Mighty Olesker!

P.s: Totem... ON!

[Dagar]

I'll leave with one last note to everyone else besides Vanquest that's in this thread:

A few of you have taken issue with Vanquest's positions and his expression of them. I think we've covered how it's best to state opinions as being opinions rather than statements of fact. But I do want to point out that not only does Vanquest have a right to his opinions and criticisms of the series and certain elements in it, but I think it's great that he feels that way. I will vigorously defend his write to take issue with the final season and to deliver well thought out criticisms of some of its elements. Detailed analysis of a series and disagreement with certain parts of it demonstrates a fan's dedication to that series and that's not only healthy but a tribute to the impact that series had on the fan. As I've often said, writers/producers/ directors/toy companies are nothing without fans. So whether a fan loves what I've done, has problems with it or thinks my work sucks, at the end of the day I'm grateful that they have a passion for the entertainment industry in which I have labored for so long.

So I'll end by saying "Thank you, Vanquest, for your continuing interest in M.A.S.K."

I agree with your first point, the lesson that has been learnt is to state opinion as opinion and fact as fact. I also agree that Vanquest is entitled to his opinion, as is anyone else. We'll never all agree on opinions, but we have to agree on facts.

To expand upon where I stand as a fan, I've often been the kind of fan who will take what's given to me and just enjoy, or not enjoy, that. Sometimes there are occasions where you have to consider an inconsistency or a lack of continuity, but it's never officially solved unless the person responsible explains it. Larry Hama has just come under a bit of flak for using a dead character in the GI Joe comic and then has kind of brushed it off. A better way to handle it would be to say "My boo-boo!" or "Oh, that's not X, it's actually his twin brother Z... Honest!".

I'm not saying the following to score points or bring the teacher an apple, but anyone who has read any of my posts in the past know I'm a BIG fan of The New Adventures of He-Man. Due to it being produced by a different company and having a different theme, there are those who don't embrace it or write it off as a spin-off with little relation to the original show. I personally haven't ever worried about it, I've just always enjoyed it. Logically it had to have some vehicle with He-Man in it already in order to be The NEW Adventures of He-Man, but whether that is a series we never saw (because it was never made) or whether it is the original series is not a concern to me, I just go with it. MASK season 2 not following MASK season 1 I'm not as big on, but I've already talked about it.

I tend not to be touchy-feely about this kind of thing, but it has been an enjoyable discussion for me, not a heated or tense one.

[Hobby One Kenobi]

First off we all know Vanquest is a little high strung, but that is what being a devoted fan of a franchise is all about. And second a big thumbs up & thank you to Heeeere's Olesker! for all the quality entertainment I enjoyed growing up as a kid. And thanks to BCI & other studios for me being able to share those great shows with my kids many years later & have them enjoy them as much as I did.

Now back to scheduled rants! LOL

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

First off we all know Vanquest is a little high strung, but that is what being a devoted fan of a franchise is all about. And second a big thumbs up & thank you to Heeeere's Olesker! for all the quality entertainment I enjoyed growing up as a kid. And thanks to BCI & other studios for me being able to share those great shows with my kids many years later & have them enjoy them as much as I did.

Now back to scheduled rants! LOL

Thanks for that, Hobby.

Van, the only thing I specifically meant to apply to you was the point about not stating opinions as fact.

I'm aware that unsolicited advice is kind of like virginity -- a gift that is usually more highly valued by the donor than the recipient. But since you asked in a tangential way, I'll answer that stating one's opinion as fact can be taken as being dismissive and backs people into a corner, not allowing them to have their opinion because yours is 'fact'. To say "This sucks" or "This is wrong" -- which is not what you did, but rather an example of how stating things as fact can be takent an extreme -- gives no one else a chance to express a different opinion. That's all I'm saying. We've got a lot of problems in the political arena in this country -- problems I don't remember when I was younger -- and I think part of it stems from each political party stating categorically that the other is wrong, without giving them a chance to explain their positions.

And you're right that it's sort of silly to put IMHO in every statement, but it's also right to place "I believe" or "I think" before more intense statements.

The other statements in my post were more general and did not apply to you. I do agree that you stated your facts in a civil and very well thought out and articulate manner. Which is all the more reason to state them as opinions and, in so doing, open the floor to interesting discussions. And that it just my opinion.

Best,

Jack

[Vanquest]

First off we all know Vanquest is a little high strung, but that is what being a devoted fan of a franchise is all about. And second a big thumbs up & thank you to Heeeere's Olesker! for all the quality entertainment I enjoyed growing up as a kid. And thanks to BCI & other studios for me being able to share those great shows with my kids many years later & have them enjoy them as much as I did.

Now back to scheduled rants! LOL

LOL.

I do agree that you stated your facts in a civil and very well thought out and articulate manner. Which is all the more reason to state them as opinions and, in so doing, open the floor to interesting discussions. And that it just my opinion.

Thank you Jake, you rule... I would like to be here talking with you a bit longer, but me, Buddy and Rushmore are still trying to repair the damaged GOLIATH without the help of Bruce Sato, and that's pretty hard to accomplish!

(wondering what happened to Bruce, Julio and Hondo by the time the Racing Series era rolled out, LOL).

[bowspearer]

I agree that there is some subjective notions here being passed off as objective, however the Racing Series does deserve most of its criticism.

The big problem with it was that it really should have been used as a miniseries at best (which could have been a great seguay into a Split Seconds storyline), but the concept was dragged out far too long and a racing theme was just stamped on everything needlessly.

For every Goliath in the line, there's a Wildcat and Bulldog which work just as well in a more generalised storyline.

Then you have the masks. Sure I can understand something like Shroud (although it's a MASSIVE step down from something like Penetrator or Maraj), but Totem? Could the idea be any more kitsch?

Realistically, the Racing series completely killed off the line. It was so bad that it killed off the cartoon (the lengths of each series are evidence enough of that- without going into story issues themselves), which then meant that rather than having a storyline to back it up, the Split Seconds line was just a bunch of weird looking vehicles which didn't quite work, with characters in weird, fluro uniforms.

Portraying them in a great light, as well as the whole robot doppleganger idea which was in the works by Kenner (I know someone who owns a proto of one), simply went out the window and so the line wound up dying a premature death.

While there might be some misinformation out there regarding it, the Racing Series deserves nothing but criticism.

[Vanquest]

Then you have the masks. Sure I can understand something like Shroud (although it's a MASSIVE step down from something like Penetrator or Maraj), but Totem? Could the idea be any more kitsch?

I love these masks only if I think them "immersed" in such weird parallel universe where races have a huge, imperative social/economical/political value/impact and MASK needed to compete in order to save the day.
Personally, I think "the" MASK of the Racing Series universe has always been a race team, and never operated as a secret military-like organization a-la G.I. Joe.

Realistically, the Racing series completely killed off the line.

No, I don't think so, but surely it confused TONS of kids at the time.

[Patrick Bateman]

Friendly reminder to no one in specific, but to avoid the thread from derailing: Keep criticism constructive and factual. Thx
Also, I re-named the thread so as to clarify its topic and intent.