The M.A.S.K. Racing Series Discussion Thread

[Vanquest]

Let's take a look at the universal origin story for a minute. Matt and his younger brother Andy create M.A.S.K. with Mayhem. Mayhem kills Andy and steals half the plans. Beyond that we don't what transpired between there and the cartoon. The PNA oversaw the whole thing- had Matt possibly publicly distanced himself to the point where only Duane Kennedy and maybe one or 2 others knew he was still leading the organisation? It's not unreasonable given what happened to Andy and Miles' opinion of Matt as expressed in said origin story.

This origin is not CANON. It's in the comics, they are not canon for the cartoon and what is displayed on-screen. So again, you're fighting a lost battle. You are spreading conjectures all over the place and complain about me doing the same, which is not true.

Then why weren't more episodes ordered? Your argument is like saying that Transformers would havew been a success if the US Marvel comic had only run for 4 issues or the cartoon for 3 episodes. But I guess we can add the way tv show marketting works to the list of things you cannot comprehend.

By the time 1987 rolled out, MOTU was over, Transformers was almost over and they stopped the MASK "mass" production and just revolved around Split Seconds as bonus. They were not interested into having more MASK episodes. Get a clue man. You're off track, and everyone is trying to address you the right path. Lol.

[Croaker]

This origin is not CANON. It's in the comics, they are not canon for the cartoon and what is displayed on-screen. So again, you're fighting a lost battle. You are spreading conjectures all over the place and complain about me doing the same, which is not true.

As an observer who's not been in this debate really so far, Vanquest it appears that your conjectures are much more far-fetched than the ones that bowspearer may have been making.

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

As an observer who's not been in this debate really so far, Vanquest it appears that your conjectures are much more far-fetched than the ones that bowspearer may have been making.

Look, I don't know if it matters to anyone, but I wrote half the episodes of the final season and story edited the other half. Neither I nor the toy manufacturer intended for it to be regarded as an alternative universe. It was simply a continuation of the story, a lot of unspoken things and developments having happened in the charaters' lives in between -- a sort of ellipse, just as you might find if you had a friend who was in the CIA when you both knew each other in your twenties and then reconnected when you were both in your forties.

Of course everyone's free to believe what that want and imagine what they wish. But this is coming from someone who was integral to the final season.

And one more thing... Just a suggestion, but how about trying to be a little kinder to each other? Life's short.

[Vanquest]

As an observer who's not been in this debate really so far, Vanquest it appears that your conjectures are much more far-fetched than the ones that bowspearer may have been making.

My... what? My conjecture is NOT having weird/complicated/unbelievable conjectures to connect two unrelated continuities, but having them placed on two separate realities and get along with it fairly.

And one more thing... Just a suggestion, but how about trying to be a little kinder to each other? Life's short.

We cannot forgive you for having... Brad flirting with Vanessa! LOL.

[Coptur]

I wanted more of the brad and vanessa flirting

[Patrick Bateman]

EDIT: The thread will be re-opened for discussion. Any non-topical debates, personal attacks etc. will be deleted and warnings will be issued.

[byinfernoslight]

I haven't been back to this thread since I first posted. Wow, things got heated since I left!

It's funny, when you think about it, that a cartoon made primarily to sell children's toys 25ish years ago can cause such intense debate. Especially since there have been no MASK toys (apart from the sole GI Joe figure), or media since. It's a credit to Jack and everyone else on the show that the stories they wrote still engage people in this way.

As a child, I was never bothered that the Racing episodes were different to the previous episodes. This may have been because the continuity created in my head for MASK was different each time I got the toys out. Sometimes it would feature guest-stars from MOTU, Transformers, etc. When I played with friends once again the set-up would be different as their ideas were incorporated.

Exactly the same thing is true of my children watching the DVDs now. They don't watch the episodes in order - usually picking a disc at random from the box - and happily sit through a season 1 episode, then a season 2, then jump back to a 1.

Their only complaint is that sometimes their favourite toy is a baddie when they want it to be a goodie! My response - 'He's on whatever side you want him to be.'

These days I'm of the view that the Racing series is in the same continuity as the rest of it, but with a good deal of time between the two. A lot can change in a few years.

But to be completely honest, I'm really not bothered either way!

[Vanquest]

EDIT: The thread will be re-opened for discussion. Any non-topical debates, personal attacks etc. will be deleted and warnings will be issued.

Fine Patrick! This is the way to go.

As a child, I was never bothered that the Racing episodes were different to the previous episodes. This may have been because the continuity created in my head for MASK was different each time I got the toys out.

Fair.

But just for a moment, imagine they are gonna create a new season for the classic G.I. Joe cartoon where G.I. Joe and Cobra are two surf teams competing in races all around the world, using super-armoured surfs, and where Duke and Commander Cobra co-founded G.I. Joe in the distant past before Commander would turn evil. I think that would upset the diehard G.I. Joe fans a bit, isn't it? I mean, G.I. Joe - as M.A.S.K. - is supposed to be a serious, secret organization equipped with the best technology in the world, set to save the world, not doing surf. Mega-lol!

[Coptur]

I thought the Racing Series brought more to the inter character development.

So if in the hope that Jack finds this topic once more 'how would you of tackled the bridge between the two series had you been given the chance?'

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

Thanks for that. While I always welcome constructive criticism -- and heaven knows I've gotten plenty of it for NA -- I'll confess it's nice to get a kudo and to know my work was enjoyed.

EDIT: Let me ponder of Coptur's excellent question overnight. I'm just getting home from eleven hours in post-production. It's been a long day and it's Guinness-time with my Irish angel now.

I haven't been back to this thread since I first posted. Wow, things got heated since I left!

It's funny, when you think about it, that a cartoon made primarily to sell children's toys 25ish years ago can cause such intense debate. Especially since there have been no MASK toys (apart from the sole GI Joe figure), or media since. It's a credit to Jack and everyone else on the show that the stories they wrote still engage people in this way.

As a child, I was never bothered that the Racing episodes were different to the previous episodes. This may have been because the continuity created in my head for MASK was different each time I got the toys out. Sometimes it would feature guest-stars from MOTU, Transformers, etc. When I played with friends once again the set-up would be different as their ideas were incorporated.

Exactly the same thing is true of my children watching the DVDs now. They don't watch the episodes in order - usually picking a disc at random from the box - and happily sit through a season 1 episode, then a season 2, then jump back to a 1.

Their only complaint is that sometimes their favourite toy is a baddie when they want it to be a goodie! My response - 'He's on whatever side you want him to be.'

These days I'm of the view that the Racing series is in the same continuity as the rest of it, but with a good deal of time between the two. A lot can change in a few years.

But to be completely honest, I'm really not bothered either way!

[Vanquest]

I thought the Racing Series brought more to the inter character development.

That's true.

[krosfyah]

wow. I+ had no idea that it even changed! I barely watched mask so when this thread popped up I thought they made a new show!

[Coptur]

Thanks Jack always like to read your posts and thoughts.

I was sat at work and I remembered this thread so i thought i'd reignite it and ask the man that might know or at least give his professional opinion for what may have transpired in the 'lost years' heck maybe if hasbro read this thread they'll do it.....


or IDW comics heh heh...mmm I guess that comes to another question for Jack 'If you were asked by IDW comics to write a six part mini series MASK: The lost years (ok working title) would you do it?'

Sorry for the questions and please do enjoy your Guiness lol

[RocketPunch]

wow. I+ had no idea that it even changed! I barely watched mask so when this thread popped up I thought they made a new show!

I was (and still am) a huge MASK fan, and for the longest time I didn't notice that either! Only realised it a few years ago when the DVDs came out.

I was more into the UK comics than the cartoon, and in those there were no changes made to the format. The earlier vehicles from year 1 continued to appear alongside the newer ones from year 3.

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

These are excellent question, Coptur, and thank you for them.

First, covering the bridge would be a really interesting challenge. My comments will pertain to both what I would have done in the past to bridge the two series and also what I would do now if I was writing a six-part comic mini-series, which, btw, I think is a great idea and which I would certainly be open to (hint-hint).

I would plunged everyone associated with M.A.S.K. into the financial crisis that resulted during the 2008 worldwide financial collapse. This would include not only our good guys, but also V.E.N.O.M.

They say that necessity is the mother on invention. If that's true, then creativity is its midwife. With all sides virtually losing everything they have, all face a new enemy: financial crisis and how to survive. They need to be creative and to adapt. Thus moving into the racing arena is a natural for them. Entertainment -- whether in the form of going to the movies, reading a book or attending car races and other sporting events -- not only survives during times of economic downturn; it thrives. So car racing would still be popular and it makes sense that they would all do that which they know how to do in order to survive. There could, of course, be plenty of intrigue there as well, V.E.N.O.M. realizing that the finacial crisis will some day pass and understanding that the present financial crisis offers a chance to crush M.A.S.K. for all time. So they'd do everything they could to sabotage the team's effort to becoming racing superstars.

Once both sides have reestablished themselves through their involvement in racing, all the old battles and intrigues would rise once again and the story would continue.

As an aside, about six months ago I contacted the current rights owner of M.A.S.K. -- I confess I no longer recall who it is and if anyone can remind me I'd be grateful. I pitched the idea of a M.A.S.K. motion picture as I've always believed the concept carries powerful film potential. Regrettably it never went anywhere, but times do change and there's always hope.

Thanks Jack always like to read your posts and thoughts.

I was sat at work and I remembered this thread so i thought i'd reignite it and ask the man that might know or at least give his professional opinion for what may have transpired in the 'lost years' heck maybe if hasbro read this thread they'll do it.....These are excellent questions,


or IDW comics heh heh...mmm I guess that comes to another question for Jack 'If you were asked by IDW comics to write a six part mini series MASK: The lost years (ok working title) would you do it?'

Sorry for the questions and please do enjoy your Guiness lol

- - - Updated - - -

Partly due to my stellar writing.

Seriously, anyone that knows me or knows of my writing is well aware that I'm a proponent of character-driven drama. Storylines are surely important. But few of us can quote scene-by-scene the progression of any Star Wars film or the series arc of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, CSI: MIAMI or DALLAS. But no doubt many of us could sit down and write ten pages describing the emotions, motivation and personality of Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Buffy, Horatio Kane or J.R. Ewing. That's because character is what counts, what leafes a lasting impression on us as viewers and what makes for great entertainment. That's why the very best films and television series have compelling and intriguing characters as their foundation and why good and great writers strive to develop well wrought characters in addition to special effects and pyrotechnics.

I attempted to do that during my involvement with M.A.S.K. and the inter-character levels of development were a part of that.

That's true.

[FAKER II]

As an aside, about six months ago I contacted the current rights owner of M.A.S.K. -- I confess I no longer recall who it is and if anyone can remind me I'd be grateful. I pitched the idea of a M.A.S.K. motion picture as I've always believed the concept carries powerful film potential. Regrettably it never went anywhere, but times do change and there's always hope.

Back in the 80’s, Kenner made the toys. I’m not sure if DiC owned the concept and Kenner made toys based on Dic’s property or if Kenner developed the concept and DiC made the cartoon based on Kenner’s property. I’m sure you would know the answer to that. If the concept was owned by Kenner then Hasbro would own it because Hasbro bought Kenner. Hasbro even released a Matt Trakker figure a few years ago in their modern GI*JOE line as a stand alone shout out to the M.A.S.K. series.

I’m not sure if M.A.S.K. is a big enough property from the 80’s that studios would want to gamble on it. I know I sure would love a M.A.S.K. movie but I admit I have nostalgia tinted glasses. If no movie, I would love to see Hasbro bring back the toy line and have a new cartoon developed on the Hub. And I’d love to see you write for it. We could see Scott all grown up and a part of the team, perhaps as an homage to his father driving a modern Camaro similar to Thunderhawk.

[Coptur]

Fantastic idea Jack, I've posted over at the IDW forums asking about MASK and whether they'd be interested in taking up the license etc

[Heeeere's Olesker!]

Thanks for that. Standing by.

Fantastic idea Jack, I've posted over at the IDW forums asking about MASK and whether they'd be interested in taking up the license etc

[Coptur]

Thanks for that. Standing by.

That's ok about 13 people have looked at my question post over at IDW, so if anyone wants to support me and Jack in the M.A.S.K mission please pop over to the IDW forums and show your support.

Jack I had an idea which comes from what you said earlier in the thread where you said the masks were alot less powerless from season 1 to 2. Why not use the Split Second range and and put them in missing years story!?!

My thinking is that the vehicles and masks (with clone tech and extra vehicles) would cost more to run and also burn through the remaining natural resource in the gems/crystals adding to the economic crisis they'd all get hit by and experience in the years to come and with characters like cliff daggar not appearing in the 2nd season, either he remained in jail or died in the escalation of the battles. I noticed Vemon inparticular re-used season 1 vehicles in season 2 (Outlaw, Stinger & Manta) which would explain they're more desperate/covert operations in season 2.

Sorry if this reads as a madmans rabblings but i'm at work and typing fast lol.

[Wonder Bread He-Man]

Love Hewitt as Gloria Baker
Pat Stewart as Alex Sector

[FAKER II]

Sounds great. though I'm having a difficult time trying to imagine Stewart with a beard. How about Aaron Eckhart for Matt Trakker?

[Coptur]

Found myself rewatching M.A.S.K after reignited this thread lol

[RocketPunch]

Sounds great. though I'm having a difficult time trying to imagine Stewart with a beard.

[Vanquest]

Hey guys, I had a huge epiphany today...

Another way to connect the different "patterns" presented in the two M.A.S.K. series:

If memory serves me well, it's not like the comics where Miles stole some mask and vehicle designs, right? I just remember (in the Racing Series) Matt telling someone Miles co-helped creating M.A.S.K and then ran from it and turned terrorist.

My theory is that Miles secretly worked with Matt to create mask and vehicles, then turned "evil". Coincidentally, an "incident" caused him a short-term amnesia where he didn't remember his involvement, Matt's role or any of his contribution to Matt Trekker's still unnamed project anymore. Unconsciously, he still remembered some of the mask/vehicle technology and created VENOM.

In-between the two series, Miles was cured and he remembered about MASK's secret origin and Matt Trakker's involvement.

I absolutely love the oil crisis/financial collapse scenario to justify the different world we see in the Racing Series.

Anyway: in regards to what the Racing Series actually says, in the episode 'One Shining Moment', Matt Trakker states, that Mayhem was responsible for helping get M.A.S.K. started and working on the side of good. IF Matt expressed himself in those precise and accurate terms on "One Shining Moment", then we can assume Mayhem helped PNA and their "unnamed" project for a while, long time before they would create the classic version of M.A.S.K. And maybe Matt wasn't still part of the project at that point... so maybe Matt was just taking into account Duane Kennedy's first hand experience with Miles Mayhem.

[Coptur]

All time favorite vehicles mask and venom?
Raven
Switchblade but a very close second is Stinger