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Thread: The M.A.S.K. Racing Series Discussion Thread

  1. #26
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Did Vanessa Warfield have a past with Clutch Hawks? It's been a loooong time since I've seen that episode, but she seemed to infer this.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    I love these masks only if I think them "immersed" in such weird parallel universe where races have a huge, imperative social/economical/political value/impact and MASK needed to compete in order to save the day.
    Personally, I think "the" MASK of the Racing Series universe has always been a race team, and never operated as a secret military-like organization a-la G.I. Joe.
    That's because you keep trying to claim that the Racing series exists in some alternate reality when there is nothing conclusively suggesting that it is from anyone involved with either the toyline or cartoon. The facts simply don't match up with your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    No, I don't think so, but surely it confused TONS of kids at the time.
    That's because you're ignoring what the cartoon existed for- to sell M.A.S.K. toys. That's the only reason it ever aired. Without the cartoon to market the Split Seconds line, it died, killing off the toyline. Thus it arguably all goes back to the woefully bad Racing Series cartoon killing itself off after a mere 10 episodes.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowspearer View Post
    That's because you keep trying to claim that the Racing series exists in some alternate reality when there is nothing conclusively suggesting that it is from anyone involved with either the toyline or cartoon. The facts simply don't match up with your opinion.
    1- Nothing on screen proves the opposite, despite the original intentions of the writer and the company, even. The creature goes beyond the creator's mind.

    2- As a HUGE fan of the Classic Series ("Season 1"), and an estimator of the Racing Series ("Season 2"), I found very useful to think they exist in two separate realities and have fun with both, despite I'm a HUGE fan of the one and only Classic Series.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Did Vanessa Warfield have a past with Clutch Hawks? It's been a loooong time since I've seen that episode, but she seemed to infer this.
    No I think it was Gloria... well, "The" Gloria Baker of the Racing Series World.
    Vanessa was attracted by Brad "I never was a rockstar in this world and just run a futuristic car for M.A.S.K." Turner.

    Quote Originally Posted by bowspearer View Post
    Thus it arguably all goes back to the woefully bad Racing Series cartoon killing itself off after a mere 10 episodes.
    No. It was commissioned this way. 10 episodes, stop. It was planned as such. MASK died off along with other toy lines. It was a smash hit anyway.
    Last edited by Vanquest; May 8, 2011 at 04:03pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  4. #29
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    Actually Venom is still very much a terrorist organization in Season two.

    My key points are as follows:

    Episode three: Homeward Bound aired on October 8th 1986 and involved Venom using villagers as slaves to mine a valuable meteorite in India.

    Episode five: Race Against Time aired on October 22, 1986
    Venom is after a rare plant needed to fight spreading virus.

    Episode six: Challenge of the Masters aired on October 29, 1986 MASK and VENOM battle in a race to win a trophy containing a microfilm that has secret access codes to any computer in the world.

    Episode seven: For One Shining Moment aired on November 5, 1986 VENOM surprisingly shows kindness by organizing a race for "charity", luring MASK to participate, however the race is really a VENOM trap to eliminate MASK once and for all.

    Episode eight High Noon aired on November 12, 1986 MASK and VENOM enter a land, air and sea race to show off their vehicle capabilities. VENOM uses the race as a diversion to steal plans for a top secret jet.

    Episode nine The Battle of Baja aired on November 19, 1986 MASK enters a Baja race where the Mexican President's son R'aul Vega, is also a competitor and offered to drive Goliath I by Matt Trakker. VENOM uses the opportunity to kidnap Vega for ransom.

    Episode ten Cliff Hanger aired on November 26, 1986 VENOM gets their hands on dangerous seeds that can cause a plague and MASK races to stop them.

    So, while Venom is a racing team, it is only a cover for their terrorist activities.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post
    Actually Venom is still very much a terrorist organization in Season two.
    Good list.

    Of course, it's a cover up. That's clear. But I would not define VENOM II as "terrorist faction", rather like a "criminal band disguised as race team".
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    The creature goes beyond the creator's mind.
    Except when you start to try and split continuities, that's well and truly crossed the line from viewer interpretation to objective statements. Until such time as someone working on the show comes out and says point blank that the Racing Series was a separate continuity, then your entire argument amounts to pure and baseless speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    2- As a HUGE fan of the Classic Series ("Season 1"), and an estimator of the Racing Series ("Season 2"), I found very useful to think they exist in two separate realities and have fun with both, despite I'm a HUGE fan of the one and only Classic Series.
    Right so let's be clear, this is purely you ret-conning the entire thing in your own mind and is as absurd as someone claiming that the Pretenders aren't a part of G1 in Transformers simply because they don't like them.

    If you choose to lie to yourself in that way, then more power to you, but stop trying to pretend that your fan-based-denial is fact in any way shape or form.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    No. It was commissioned this way. 10 episodes, stop. It was planned as such. MASK died off along with other toy lines. It was a smash hit anyway.
    Yes. You're completely missing the cold hard fact that 80s toy cartoons are glorified 30 minute animated toy commercials. They existed to sell toys- period. The fact that there was a 4th series of toys means that things didn't go to plan at all as there was no cartoon in place to market said 4th series.

    Furthermore, every single successful toy cartoon out there ran 65 episode cartoon runs. The ones which were for shortlived and prematurely killed off toylines, were the ones which were for lines like Sky Commanders, Visionaries, Dino Riders, and so the list goes on.

    Therefore the fact that it only ran for 10 episodes only proved how much of a failure it was as had it hit the mark, 55 more episodes would have quickly been ordered.

    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post
    Actually Venom is still very much a terrorist organization in Season two.

    My key points are as follows:

    Episode three: Homeward Bound aired on October 8th 1986 and involved Venom using villagers as slaves to mine a valuable meteorite in India.

    Episode five: Race Against Time aired on October 22, 1986
    Venom is after a rare plant needed to fight spreading virus.

    Episode six: Challenge of the Masters aired on October 29, 1986 MASK and VENOM battle in a race to win a trophy containing a microfilm that has secret access codes to any computer in the world.

    Episode seven: For One Shining Moment aired on November 5, 1986 VENOM surprisingly shows kindness by organizing a race for "charity", luring MASK to participate, however the race is really a VENOM trap to eliminate MASK once and for all.

    Episode eight High Noon aired on November 12, 1986 MASK and VENOM enter a land, air and sea race to show off their vehicle capabilities. VENOM uses the race as a diversion to steal plans for a top secret jet.

    Episode nine The Battle of Baja aired on November 19, 1986 MASK enters a Baja race where the Mexican President's son R'aul Vega, is also a competitor and offered to drive Goliath I by Matt Trakker. VENOM uses the opportunity to kidnap Vega for ransom.

    Episode ten Cliff Hanger aired on November 26, 1986 VENOM gets their hands on dangerous seeds that can cause a plague and MASK races to stop them.

    So, while Venom is a racing team, it is only a cover for their terrorist activities.
    Exactly. The notion that they're somehow no longer a terrorist organisation is as absurd as the notion that Knight Rider exists in a separate continuity; every single time that Michael and KITT have to infiltrate a race or car show.
    Last edited by bowspearer; May 8, 2011 at 04:24pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post
    Actually Venom is still very much a terrorist organization in Season two.

    My key points are as follows:

    Episode three: Homeward Bound aired on October 8th 1986 and involved Venom using villagers as slaves to mine a valuable meteorite in India.

    Episode five: Race Against Time aired on October 22, 1986
    Venom is after a rare plant needed to fight spreading virus.

    Episode six: Challenge of the Masters aired on October 29, 1986 MASK and VENOM battle in a race to win a trophy containing a microfilm that has secret access codes to any computer in the world.

    Episode seven: For One Shining Moment aired on November 5, 1986 VENOM surprisingly shows kindness by organizing a race for "charity", luring MASK to participate, however the race is really a VENOM trap to eliminate MASK once and for all.

    Episode eight High Noon aired on November 12, 1986 MASK and VENOM enter a land, air and sea race to show off their vehicle capabilities. VENOM uses the race as a diversion to steal plans for a top secret jet.

    Episode nine The Battle of Baja aired on November 19, 1986 MASK enters a Baja race where the Mexican President's son R'aul Vega, is also a competitor and offered to drive Goliath I by Matt Trakker. VENOM uses the opportunity to kidnap Vega for ransom.

    Episode ten Cliff Hanger aired on November 26, 1986 VENOM gets their hands on dangerous seeds that can cause a plague and MASK races to stop them.

    So, while Venom is a racing team, it is only a cover for their terrorist activities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    Good list.

    Of course, it's a cover up. That's clear. But I would not define VENOM II as "terrorist faction", rather like a "criminal band disguised as race team".
    I know its your opinion, but honestly kidnapping a whole village, to mine for a meteor, or trying to get plant that can sop a virus, getting a microfilm that has access codes to computer that can control the world and any other thing on the above list doesn't make them a terrorist faction? Far more than criminal think, in fact I do think it is the same Venom they just went legitimate to race for these items, as a cover for their activities. And in all my time on the internet this opinion of yours about Season two of MASK being an alt continuity is the very first time I have ever heard of it, and I have been on many many boards since my beginnings in 99 on the net. Everyone I have every known knew it as the same series, just were puzzled why the next year they went from fighting each other too racing. But now that's cleared up. Oh and the episode where Miles Learns of Trakker's identity I believe is a season one episode, I remember it rather well, involves a crystal skull I think. I will try to track it down. As in the episode Venom knows who Matt is when he sees him.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowspearer View Post

    If you choose to lie to yourself in that way, then more power to you, but stop trying to pretend that your fan-based-denial is fact in any way shape or form.
    Calm out man. I'm just, just explaining my point of view. AND SINCE you despise the Racing Series so much, why are you so vehemently attacking my premise? This is so weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by bowspearer View Post

    Furthermore, every single successful toy cartoon out there ran 65 episode cartoon runs.
    That's not enterely true, NO CARTOON had only 10 episodes commissioned to see how the concept would have embraced by public... they always commissioned 65 episodes from the very beginning of the project. Or 13 episodes. Or 10 in this case.
    You're the one ignoring the business, not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by bowspearer View Post
    Exactly. The notion that they're somehow no longer a terrorist organisation is as absurd as the notion that Knight Rider exists in a separate continuity; every single time that Michael and KITT have to infiltrate a race or car show.
    VENOM can pretend to be whatever it wants. You cannot say the same for MASK the way MASK was portrayed on Season 1. End of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post
    Oh and the episode where Miles Learns of Trakker's identity I believe is a season one episode, I remember it rather well, involves a crystal skull I think. I will try to track it down. As in the episode Venom knows who Matt is when he sees him.
    Matt Trakker = Tony Stark = Bruce Wayne. Everyone knows who is the guy, he's popular on tabloids. He's one of the richiest persons in the world. I just don't remember what Miles said WHEN he discovered Trakker is the leader of MASK.

    By the way, here we go, two very interesting Season 1 episodes that could clear up the fact in Universe 1 Venom and MASK have no common origin:

    39 "Green Nightmare" November 21, 1985 (1985-11-21)
    VENOM agent Vanessa Warfield, sabotages Matt Trakker's private jet which crashes in the jungles of New Guinea. The rest of the MASK team goes to rescue them.
    40 "Eyes of the Skull" November 22, 1985 (1985-11-22)
    VENOM leader, Miles Mayhem, uses an ancient "crystal skull" which allows x-ray vision to see through Matt Trakker's mask and discover his identity. Mayhem then kidnaps Scott Trakker for ransom.
    Last edited by Vanquest; May 8, 2011 at 05:03pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    1- Nothing on screen proves the opposite, despite the original intentions of the writer and the company, even. The creature goes beyond the creator's mind.

    2- As a HUGE fan of the Classic Series ("Season 1"), and an estimator of the Racing Series ("Season 2"), I found very useful to think they exist in two separate realities and have fun with both, despite I'm a HUGE fan of the one and only Classic Series.



    No I think it was Gloria... well, "The" Gloria Baker of the Racing Series World.
    Vanessa was attracted by Brad "I never was a rockstar in this world and just run a futuristic car for M.A.S.K." Turner.



    No. It was commissioned this way. 10 episodes, stop. It was planned as such. MASK died off along with other toy lines. It was a smash hit anyway.
    You are correct that it was presented to us as a limited ten-episode run. We were also told that the toy line was being discontinued. Other speculation is just that -- speculation -- and not knowledge obtained from actually having been there.

    Btw, no toy maker in their right mind disregards the importance of strong storytelling to help move their toyline.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    You are correct that it was presented to us as a limited ten-episode run. We were also told that the toy line was being discontinued.
    !!! Plain and simple.
    So nobody can claim the Racing Series was not a success and it damaged the toy sales. It's not true at all.
    (Note: The Racing Series toys sold very well in Italy).
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  11. #36
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    Some more points from myself:

    Actually, there were quite a lot of cartoon series that started off with just a mini-series; Transformers started off with 3 episodes, followed by an additional 13 episodes (for a weekly/quarter-year run) which was then folded into the second season to make 65 for a weekday run for 13 weeks. GI Joe had three mini-series lasting 5 episodes, then 50 episodes on top to make 65. I think Thundercats had 2 episodes together, too. So there are occasions where a limited run made way for a full season. Plus some series never got beyond a mini-series, either.

    I'm going to check out Eyes of the Skull later, but I recall Mayhem's reaction to discovering Trakker's identity as being more of recognising someone he knew of rather than someone he knew, which was continued when Matt took a phonecall from him later in the episode and acted like he wasn't familiar with Miles. Not a great episode, tbh, but at least they tried something a bit different.

    Edit: And I'm watching it right now and the rapport is such that Mayhem and Trakker seemingly never knew one another prior.
    Last edited by Dagar; May 8, 2011 at 06:32pm.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagar View Post
    Some more points from myself:

    Actually, there were quite a lot of cartoon series that started off with just a mini-series; Transformers started off with 3 episodes, followed by an additional 13 episodes (for a weekly/quarter-year run) which was then folded into the second season to make 65 for a weekday run for 13 weeks. GI Joe had three mini-series lasting 5 episodes, then 50 episodes on top to make 65. I think Thundercats had 2 episodes together, too. So there are occasions where a limited run made way for a full season. Plus some series never got beyond a mini-series, either.

    I'm going to check out Eyes of the Skull later, but I recall Mayhem's reaction to discovering Trakker's identity as being more of recognising someone he knew of rather than someone he knew, which was continued when Matt took a phonecall from him later in the episode and acted like he wasn't familiar with Miles. Not a great episode, tbh, but at least they tried something a bit different.

    You're correct about toy and broadcasting companies sometimes wishing to testing the waters with a limited run series rather than undertaking the expoentially higher costs and labor of a full blown sixty-five episode buy. Interestingly, when I was hired by Mattel to create THE NEW ADVENTURES OF HE-MAN, the original buy-in was for me to write a series bible and five-part mini-series. After the mini-series debuted at MGM's Culver City theater, Mattel gave us (Jetlag) a pick up for sixty-five episodes, of which I wrote thirty-seven. I put my soul into that series and my speculation about why the series was not successful are well documented in other posts in other threads and in interviews. None of it had anything to do with a lack of effort or a desire to just pound out something that would sell toys. I put everything I had into NA and there still remains a hole in my heart created by the fact that the series was not successful.

    In the case of the final season of M.A.S.K., however, it was pretty much a given that the series and toy-line was ending and they were looking for a way to pump toy sales...although, again, I'll say we tried to produce entertaining content. It is probably true that if the series was a break-out success it might have gotten a pick-up for more episodes. But that was not the way it was presented to us, but rahter as a sort of swan song.

    Further, while it is true that many animated series of the 80s were designed specifically to sell toy lines it is also true that the overwhelming majority of toy company executives that I and most of my friends in the business were associated with respected the importance of excellent stories. The same is true for almost all writers from that era. Towering talents such as J. Michael Straczynski, Larry DiTillio, Robbie London, Chuck Lorre and Jeffrey Scott among many others, were relentless in their determination to write great scripts that would delight their viewers.

    The characterization -- by people who are not in the business -- of either toy company executives or scriptwriters of that era as mercenary individuals who didn't give a rat's about creativity is off target in my experience. It is true that the toy companies' primary aim was to sell toys, but selling toys and entertaining children were not and are not mutually exclusive endeavors.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; May 8, 2011 at 06:51pm.

  13. #38
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    There were also mini-series designed to wrap a series, such as The Rebirth, the "last hurrah" for Transformers by Sunbow, designed to showcase the Headmasters and Targetmasters and written by David Wise, who saw his remit reduced from five episodes to three.

    Also, just watching the episode For One Shining Moment, wherein VENOM "goes good" and Matt Trakker remarks on this being a return to goodness for Miles, who originally helped get MASK running before turning evil.

    Jack, did Chuck Lorre write many scripts beyond writing theme tunes such as the one for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Also, and I know this is a negative thing to do, but were there any people involved in the animation business back in the day that you were diametrically opposed to? Jean Chalopin divides people and a minority have taken against some of the studio heads, but did you have any run-ins with peers?
    Last edited by Dagar; May 8, 2011 at 07:32pm.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    Calm out man. I'm just, just explaining my point of view. AND SINCE you despise the Racing Series so much, why are you so vehemently attacking my premise? This is so weird.
    The thing is that you keep confusing conjecture with fact. Just because you choose to regard both series as separate continuities does not make it fact. Until you accept that distinction, your entire argument will continue to be utterly fallacious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    That's not enterely true, NO CARTOON had only 10 episodes commissioned to see how the concept would have embraced by public... they always commissioned 65 episodes from the very beginning of the project. Or 13 episodes. Or 10 in this case.
    You're the one ignoring the business, not me.
    The people who did Ring Raiders (only 6 episodes long) would argue otherwise. That's ignoring 13 episode runs like Dino Riders, Visionaries and Sky Commanders. All 4 of these had episode runs in the vicinity of 10 episode. The next time you want to accuse someone of ignoring facts, you might want to make sure you've actually gotten then straight to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    VENOM can pretend to be whatever it wants. You cannot say the same for MASK the way MASK was portrayed on Season 1. End of the story.
    Really, so M.A.S.K. wasn't operating under the PNA, using the races as a cover or foiling Venom's schemes? Clearly we must have been watching different Racing series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    Matt Trakker = Tony Stark = Bruce Wayne. Everyone knows who is the guy, he's popular on tabloids. He's one of the richiest persons in the world. I just don't remember what Miles said WHEN he discovered Trakker is the leader of MASK.
    Which only points to a commonly criticised flaw in the Racing Series and nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    By the way, here we go, two very interesting Season 1 episodes that could clear up the fact in Universe 1 Venom and MASK have no common origin:

    39 "Green Nightmare" November 21, 1985 (1985-11-21)
    VENOM agent Vanessa Warfield, sabotages Matt Trakker's private jet which crashes in the jungles of New Guinea. The rest of the MASK team goes to rescue them.
    Which only demonstrates that the crystal was the basis of the energiser technology. Nowhere in the ep does it say Mayhem was not involved in the creation of M.A.S.K.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    40 "Eyes of the Skull" November 22, 1985 (1985-11-22)
    VENOM leader, Miles Mayhem, uses an ancient "crystal skull" which allows x-ray vision to see through Matt Trakker's mask and discover his identity. Mayhem then kidnaps Scott Trakker for ransom.

    Exactly. The very first thing Mayhem does is kidnap Scott. That only proves the common origin. Once again, you have merely proven just how baseless your whole argument is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    You are correct that it was presented to us as a limited ten-episode run. We were also told that the toy line was being discontinued. Other speculation is just that -- speculation -- and not knowledge obtained from actually having been there.

    Btw, no toy maker in their right mind disregards the importance of strong storytelling to help move their toyline.
    The problem with that brief though was that it proved to be inaccurate. Even if toy sales looked dire; Kenner must have had a boost in sales significant enough to justify the release of the Split Seconds line- otherwise the entire line would never have been released. Clearly, had the possibilty of a fourth series of toys been considered along with the story needed to make that happen, then arguably the brief would have been vastly different, as certain plot points were never explored - indicating a complete lack of transition being present.
    Last edited by bowspearer; May 8, 2011 at 07:51pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  15. #40
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    That's not enterely true, NO CARTOON had only 10 episodes commissioned to see how the concept would have embraced by public... they always commissioned 65 episodes from the very beginning of the project. Or 13 episodes. Or 10 in this case.
    Actually, the initial first seasons of cartoons were big. The following seasons were usually quite smaller than the initial 65 episodes. It was pretty common.

    She-Ra, Transformers, ThunderCats and G.I. Joe were big cartoons, but had smaller second seasons, usually 30 episodes (a three part mini was the fourth season for Transformers while ThunderCats had 20 episode third and fourth seasons). And those were the big boys. I can see M.A.S.K. having a small season as well.
    Last edited by MegaGearMax; May 8, 2011 at 08:08pm.

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  16. #41
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    transformers have four seasons the fourth season is is the three parter season 3 had i believe some 30 eps involved in it
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by manny View Post
    transformers have four seasons the fourth season is is the three parter season 3 had i believe some 30 eps involved in it
    Sorry. I don't know what I was thinking. TF DID have 4 seasons.

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    Shows like Visionaries being only 13 episodes are typical for a one season show that ran in syndication on the weekends. First year syndicated shows were typically around 13 for a weekend show and 65 for a weekday show. If a show started off as a mini-series or weekend show, but moved to weekdays for a second season, they'd typically add enough to reach the 65 episode count.

    Once shows like M.A.S.K. had their 65 episode weekday count, most follow up seasons were typically much shorter since they would just reshow the old episodes alongside the new ones. It is possible that DiC might have commissioned 13 episodes to be written for M.A.S.K.'s second season, but decided to only animate 10 of them, but that shouldn't be looked at as a big deal either way.
    Last edited by Firefly; May 8, 2011 at 10:00pm.

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    Bowspearer:

    IF Miles Mayhem co-worked with Trakker to create MASK in the very beginning of the "project", as long as MASK would have appeared in the bigger scheme of the things --- fighting VENOM --- Miles should have abducted Scott Trakker. No need for the crystal skull to discover who was the man behind MASK !!! It's so easy to get. Why are you not able to get this simple concept? Lol.

    And all people on this thread proved your assumption about the Racing Series being a flop is dead wrong.
    The Racing Series was good, and was designed to feature only 10 episodes.

    But if you hate the Racing Series so much, why are you defending its continuity so much?! Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagar View Post
    I'm going to check out Eyes of the Skull later, but I recall Mayhem's reaction to discovering Trakker's identity as being more of recognising someone he knew of rather than someone he knew, which was continued when Matt took a phonecall from him later in the episode and acted like he wasn't familiar with Miles. Not a great episode, tbh, but at least they tried something a bit different.

    Edit: And I'm watching it right now and the rapport is such that Mayhem and Trakker seemingly never knew one another prior.
    Right. Miles just "knew" of Trekker as one of the most powerful rich persons in the world. Case closed.
    Last edited by Vanquest; May 9, 2011 at 07:49am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    Right. Miles just "knew" of Trekker as one of the most powerful rich persons in the world. Case closed.
    Yeah, but contradicted in For One Shining Moment. Unfortunate, but if I were to discount one episode over another I'd personally jettison Eyes of the Skull.

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    Filmation Ghostbuster Vanquest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagar View Post
    Yeah, but contradicted in For One Shining Moment. Unfortunate, but if I were to discount one episode over another I'd personally jettison Eyes of the Skull.
    Sorry man. I think nobody can do that.
    I say (IMHO): both the Classic Series and the Racing Series are 100% M.A.S.K. They are just two different continuities, and not only for the issue raised by the origin.

    That's why I found the saying "Complete Series" (coming from SHOUT!) being poignant and proper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    Shows like Visionaries being only 13 episodes are typical for a one season show that ran in syndication on the weekends.
    As "Blackstar".
    Last edited by Vanquest; May 9, 2011 at 10:23am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    Bowspearer:

    IF Miles Mayhem co-worked with Trakker to create MASK in the very beginning of the "project", as long as MASK would have appeared in the bigger scheme of the things --- fighting VENOM --- Miles should have abducted Scott Trakker. No need for the crystal skull to discover who was the man behind MASK !!! It's so easy to get. Why are you not able to get this simple concept? Lol.
    No it's a strawman argument pure and simple. For someone who claims that their English is not the best, you would do well to look up the difference between the terms subjective and objective.

    Let's take a look at the universal origin story for a minute. Matt and his younger brother Andy create M.A.S.K. with Mayhem. Mayhem kills Andy and steals half the plans. Beyond that we don't what transpired between there and the cartoon. The PNA oversaw the whole thing- had Matt possibly publicly distanced himself to the point where only Duane Kennedy and maybe one or 2 others knew he was still leading the organisation? It's not unreasonable given what happened to Andy and Miles' opinion of Matt as expressed in said origin story.

    Furthermore, why was Scott not surrounded by bodyguards and minders while he was out if he was that well known? Someone of that nature having that level of security was not unheard of back then.

    All of these points debunk your theory completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    And all people on this thread proved your assumption about the Racing Series being a flop is dead wrong.
    The Racing Series was good, and was designed to feature only 10 episodes.
    Then why weren't more episodes ordered? Your argument is like saying that Transformers would havew been a success if the US Marvel comic had only run for 4 issues or the cartoon for 3 episodes. But I guess we can add the way tv show marketting works to the list of things you cannot comprehend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    But if you hate the Racing Series so much, why are you defending its continuity so much?! Lol.
    I'm looking at facts as opposed to confusing conjecture with them. You might want to try it sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquest View Post
    Right. Miles just "knew" of Trekker as one of the most powerful rich persons in the world. Case closed.
    Again that's conjecture. Thie relationship, considering the origins story, was strained at best. That combined with Miles' professional nature, more than accounts for how he acted- even forgetting about the fact that it was a phone call making a ransom demand and so it was very much written to type.

    The only place where "case closed" even remotely appies, is in your strawman court.

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    Heroic Warrior Croaker's Avatar
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    In G1 transformers the Constructicons are given very different origins in different episodes. When we first see them they are created by the decepticons on earth to fill out their ranks, etc.

    Then in a later season episode they are shown as existing millions of years ago on Cybertron. This very direct contradiction hasn't led fans to suppose that there is a different continuity or universe going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Croaker View Post
    In G1 transformers the Constructicons are given very different origins in different episodes. When we first see them they are created by the decepticons on earth to fill out their ranks, etc.

    Then in a later season episode they are shown as existing millions of years ago on Cybertron. This very direct contradiction hasn't led fans to suppose that there is a different continuity or universe going on.
    I was originally going to say this, but I'm still not convinced that there's this great a continuity error in the M.A.S.K. universe yet, despite there being some inconsistencies.

    Incidentally there are 3 Constructicon origins. There are the ones you mention where they're built on Earth in Season 1 and are friends of Omega Supreme who are ocrrupted by the Robo Smasher in Season 2. However there is a third one shown in Season 3 where the Constructicons actually build Megatron. Still all 80s shows tend to be more character tales with little thought given to continuity (except maybe in terms of within the stories written by each specific writer). As kids we got that, yet as adults we tend to want to nitpick the hell out of them.
    Last edited by bowspearer; May 9, 2011 at 05:53pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagar View Post
    There were also mini-series designed to wrap a series, such as The Rebirth, the "last hurrah" for Transformers by Sunbow, designed to showcase the Headmasters and Targetmasters and written by David Wise, who saw his remit reduced from five episodes to three.

    Also, just watching the episode For One Shining Moment, wherein VENOM "goes good" and Matt Trakker remarks on this being a return to goodness for Miles, who originally helped get MASK running before turning evil.

    Jack, did Chuck Lorre write many scripts beyond writing theme tunes such as the one for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Also, and I know this is a negative thing to do, but were there any people involved in the animation business back in the day that you were diametrically opposed to? Jean Chalopin divides people and a minority have taken against some of the studio heads, but did you have any run-ins with peers?
    Well I don't want to get too far off thread and, also, I do my best reminiscing about the animation industry in the 80s over a couple fo pints of Guinness. But since you ask I'll reply.

    Chuck Lorre -- who is one of the entertainment industry's true good guys -- wrote for a number of children's series during the 80s and our paths frequently crossed; always pleasantly so.

    He wrote for M.A.S.K., The Littles (which I wrote multiple episodes for, and which is where we first met), Heathcliff & The Catillac Cats (for which I served as story editor) and I believe he wrote an episode of Fraggle Rock.

    Jean Chalopin was -- along with Haim Saban and Andy Heyward -- one of my great mentors and dear friends. It happened that we lived in the same condo building in Studio City, CA and he had heard I was a published author. He gave me a shot at writing for children's television and, after having written over a thousand episodes, I never looked back. It led to my working internationally, creating television pilots in France and travelling there many times on business. Jean's tutelage also led to, decades later, my being made president of an animation studio in Chennai, India. He taught me much about the creative side of the industry.

    As for Haim Saban and Andy Heyward, they taught me 90% of what I know about the business of entertainment. For that I am grateful beyond my ability to express it. That the three of us became friends and shared many good times and rollicking laughter together was an added and unexpected benefit.

    People who do not know Jean, Andy and Haim -- who were also close friends over many years -- occasionally have taken potshots at them. There is a saying that the higher you rise, the more your butt is a target for arrows. In the thirty years I've known these gentlemen they have always treated me with respect and generosity. I wrote more than two hundred episodes of television for Haim Saban and created the original series bible for Mighty Morphin Power Rangers for him. In all that time I never had a contract with Saban Entertainment on any episode I wrote. Haim's handshake was all I ever needed. I can count on one hand the number of people in this world I can say that about.

    Haim Saban and Jean Chalopin are likely too modest to admit it but their philanthropy and contributions to children are amazing in terms of dollars as well as time and energy.

    As for my peers, you have to understand that back in the 80s the children's television industry was very different than it is today. Sure, Joe Barbera and Walt Disney were pounding out television series here and there. But overall it was not a huge business and until Smurfs -- although there were earlier exceptions to the rule -- children's entertainment wasn't really a toy and product licensing cash cow. The Smufs and NBC's Fred Silverman -- who was wise enough to listen to his young daughter and her friends when they raved about these cute blue characters on keychains -- changed all that...forever.

    Too, for children's entertainment there were only the three networks and this small upstart named Fox. Ther were no children's thematic outlets like Nick and Cartoon Network. So there were limited time slots and only a handful of writers who worked in animation. The VPs of Children's Entertainment at the Big Three Networks -- all of whom I wrote for -- Squire Rushnell, Judy Price and Jenny Trias were amazingly talented executives to work for. Peeople will say they were tough, but I always felt I was fortunate to work for tough people. And being a network executive is a brutal job. Judy Price, in particular, had a reputation for being brutal but she was always a delight for me to work with and her story skills were bothing less than brilliant.

    So because children's television was just trul coming into its own (Jean, by the way, was one of the first producers to insist on using scriptwirters because he demanded great and sometimes complex storytelling rather than artists writing in a few lines here and there) most of us children's television writers either knew each other or knew of each other. It was a kind of club. And I have to tell you that in all those years I never met a single writer I didn't like and I never had a harsh word with one of them. I think it was pretty much the same for all of us. Maybe it was partly because we loved what we were doing so much. You can't fully understand what it feels like to tell a child that you write for a certain television series and see them smile...see their eyes light up. To know that your work brings happiness to children is transformational and your work then becomes a joy.

    Did we always produce great entertainment? Of course not. But what quaterback throws a perfect pass every time? What I will tell you, however, is that every last one of us -- every last one of us -- realized that we had a huge responsibility because, in a small way, we were helping in the growth and shaping of young minds and hearts and souls. And I will tell you that every last one of us took that responsibility very seriously.

    Thanks for asking.

    Best,

    Jack

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