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Thread: Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 047 Discussion!

  1. #26
    Hero of Eternia zodak74's Avatar
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    This episode has made me really appreciate the 4H's hard work on these toys all over again... the discussion about the female dresses, etc. is very informative and explains a lot more than the short internet Q & A answers we've been getting on the subject.

  2. #27
    Robots and Monsters! TrimmTrabb's Avatar
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    Loved it.
    You guys should have Eric as a guest on a semi-regular basis. It really drives home that connection between the fans who are creating this stuff and the fans who are buying it.

  3. #28
    Heroic Warrior Ealo's Avatar
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    i thought what was meant by `keyboard warriors` is the willingness of people to be highly offensive on forums etc, when they wouldn`t do so in real life, rather than talking about people criticising, it is how criticism sometimes gets delivered with a shovel of offensive remarks with it. he clearly stated how he takes on board fan criticisms.

  4. #29
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    Yeah they were talking about things like wishing violence on Toyguru because Queen Marlena would be packaged in her space suit.

  5. #30
    Rainbow Warrior Irian's Avatar
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    Vintage vs 200X
    I do not agree with the argument at the end. I don't know 200X fans who hate the vintage line. I do know people who prefer some (or in a few cases: most) 200X designs over the old designs (Adam, Whiplash, Clawful, Rattlor in my case). What I start to dislike is that I have to defend me preferring 200X designs or being disappointed in not getting more 200X-inspired details. Or that is a great offense to say the original Clawful head looks goofy to me.

    Whiplash - why there was less critique of the vintage head:
    Fans like me who prefer the 200X look of the character had no reason to be disappointed and voice critique because we had "our" head and the fans of the original look had theirs. No need to pick on a design we could just put away and use the one we preferred. But for Clawful we don't have a different interpretation.

    Clawful
    I have difficulty with some of the reasoning: If I don't like the vintage design as much as the 200X design and say I would have preferred a head without the black eyebrows and the big eyes - why should I agree that it is the right decision to stay with the vintage design? To me staying close to the original head is still a suboptimal decision - even though it is the vision of the Horsemen.

    "It's not the point of this line to make the character look better" is not necessarily something I find logical

    1) Well, if there's no alternative head that is.
    2) Which to me still means the "incorporating all areas" thing put forth the first year was misleading to the 200X fans.

  6. #31
    Chewer of Trollans
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    This was perhaps my favorite dinner. It felt like a bonus feature on a DVD. I'd love to hear even more technical details.

    Irian said:
    "It's not the point of this line to make the character look better" is not necessarily something I find logical

    I couldn't agree more with this, Irian. It's my only problem with the line, and it seems like it's just because my vision of what I want the line to be is not the vision of what the line is.
    This line is about updating the vintage figures. I want a line that makes the best possible figure and ignores childish elements (Clawful's eyebrows), design flaws (Battle Armor Skeletor's boots), technical difficulties (skin-tone wrist bands), and action feature elements (Hordak's dial) from the past.
    Which is fine. I'll buy what I want and avoid what I don't. It's just good to vocalize what the line is. "Vintage first."

  7. #32
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    As for the 4H, other than the snarky comments about POP fans
    What comments are these? I don't recall seeing them offhand. (note: I haven't listened to this podcast yet, but if it's something that they posted somewhere, I'm just interesting in what was said).
    Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; May 20, 2011 at 02:53pm.
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  8. #33
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    My favourite episode so far !!! Great to hear Eric on the 4 Horsemen's point of view

    ... so about these 'Keyboard Warriors' (love that term btw): are they all considered evil or are there heroic ones as well ?

  9. #34
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    They're generally cowardly and superstitious.

  10. #35
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    A couple of the comments I've been hearing about online "keyboard warriors" are a bit unfair, imo. From what I'm getting out of those conversations, there almost seems to be this notion of: "if you're not willing to say it in person, then you shouldn't be saying it at all!", which I completely disagree with, as some folks are better at articulating their points in written word than orally. So really, a reluctance to discuss something in person shouldn't automatically nullify all that a person has to say. Just something to keep in mind when discussing this topic.
    Sometimes the keyboard warriors can get a little crazy whenever we have a controversy--tempers flare into rude remarks when we have Era Wars, backwards shoulders, no more 200X heads and the artbook scandal. I'm sure you've seen posts before they get deleted? This is probably what the RGD crew are talking about, not speaking your mind in general.

    If you treat fans with respect when you post, even when you disagree with them, then you aren't a keyboard warrior.

  11. #36
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    Must listen to this - hopefully I didn't misinterpret Tally's comments!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealo View Post
    i thought what was meant by `keyboard warriors` is the willingness of people to be highly offensive on forums etc, when they wouldn`t do so in real life, rather than talking about people criticising, it is how criticism sometimes gets delivered with a shovel of offensive remarks with it. he clearly stated how he takes on board fan criticisms.
    I don't believe Eric said the part about keyboard warriors, but I found it a little off-putting that the conversation kind of went from talking about over-the-line anger/frustration-tinged posts, to him having some "specific" examples of comments that he had seen on tap, to then trying to tie it all together with the keyboard warriors discussion.

    This is kind of what I'm talking about with regards to what I mentioned about fans of female figures being singled-out...

    With the bazillion anger-frustration-tinged posts coming out of MOTU fans, why is the instant thought to use "specific" comments from fans of POP? And the thing is, it wasn't really even an accurate account of where the overall disappointment was stemming from. I don't think it's a good example of fans being irrational. Sure there was some frustration, but I think folks need to look past that to see if the points being presented are valid.

    Other than that, I really appreciated the in-depth explanation on the stactions, statues, mini-busts, female articulation etc.
    Last edited by Tallstar; May 20, 2011 at 03:43pm.

  12. #37
    Evil Apologist of Mattel Count Marzo's Avatar
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    LEGENDARY episode of Roast Gooble Dinner. To actually hear Eric Treadaway, one of the Four Horsemen, actually going to town on a MOTU sculpt WHILE on the podcast = seriously epic!!

    Merman is definitely a masterpiece of MOTUC figures too so I hear him on that!
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  13. #38
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    What comments are these? I don't recall seeing them offhand. (note: I haven't listened to this podcast yet, but if it's something that they posted somewhere, I'm just interesting in what was said).
    A couple episodes back, I believe one of the 4H said that POP fans were whining. So now, having heard what was said in the last few minutes of this Gooble, I'm beginning to wonder if they resent us or something.

  14. #39
    Heroic Master of Tugging CarKrash's Avatar
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    Good listen. I love to hear interviews on gooble!

  15. #40
    Heroic Warrior
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    Maybe some fans are too emotional when it's up to toys?

  16. #41
    Evil Apologist of Mattel Count Marzo's Avatar
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    ERA WARRRRRS!

    200x hyper anime fans = uninformed vintage haters!

    PoP fans = cry baby whiners!

    Score another victory for Vintage Purism! Just look at the big guns on the [duh] WINNING team!

    One day MGM will crack. We need to kidnap him, strap him down on Modulok's operating table and make him watch a marathon of the best Filmation episodes.

    Are Keyboard Warriors a bootleg of Pixel Dan's beloved Computer Warriors?
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  17. #42
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForTheHonour86 View Post
    P.S. Vegemite over Marmite - really lol! Twiglets are great and have the marmite taste. I think the UK and US need to trade Twiglets for Peanut Butter M&Ms!
    I'd be MORE than happy to work out this trade!

    Quote Originally Posted by 13977 View Post
    Val PM me your address and I'll send you some Monster Munch, their loads tastier then Twigglets lol.
    That would rock. Thank you!

    You can send it to the PO Box, if that's cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    A couple of the comments I've been hearing about online "keyboard warriors" are a bit unfair, imo. From what I'm getting out of those conversations, there almost seems to be this notion of: "if you're not willing to say it in person, then you shouldn't be saying it at all!", which I completely disagree with, as some folks are better at articulating their points in written word than orally. So really, a reluctance to discuss something in person shouldn't automatically nullify all that a person has to say. Just something to keep in mind when discussing this topic.
    I feel like you think we were talking about you specifically.
    If not, I apologize. But I get that vibe from your post.
    Eamon made the keyboard warriors comment, and just as Ealo said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ealo View Post
    i thought what was meant by `keyboard warriors` is the willingness of people to be highly offensive on forums etc, when they wouldn`t do so in real life, rather than talking about people criticising, it is how criticism sometimes gets delivered with a shovel of offensive remarks with it. he clearly stated how he takes on board fan criticisms.
    That's what it means. Keyboard warriors are people who are insulting and rude and aggressive, etc, when they would not be this way in person.
    Another term is "keyboard cowards" or "keyboard courage", etc.

    Sorry Tally. You know I love you. But this time you really are taking something way out of context, not to mention glossing over all the other talk where Eric says how the 4H read and listen to comments.

    There's a huge difference between being a jerk on the forums (AKA: being a keyboard warrior) and being constructive and polite with an opinion.

    At the Org, we don't have much of the keyboard warrior stuff. But you can find plenty of comments of this nature about MOTUC on various other forums. And even then, it's only select users. Most folks aren't like that.

    Moreover, I do feel like POP fans are sometimes unfairly singled-out as irrational complainers by the Four Horsemen and I just think.
    I'd like for you to point to where the Four Horsemen singled out POP fans as irrational complainers.
    They aren't saying that.
    You are talking about the Toy Fair show where CB said, and I loosely quote "to all the POP fans whining and complaining about not getting certain characters, don't worry! We'll get to them!" That's not the same as you present it.

    The reality is, some POP fans are very extreme with their comments.
    There are also 200x fans like this, and vintage fans like this, etc.
    That's just how it is

    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    What comments are these? I don't recall seeing them offhand. (note: I haven't listened to this podcast yet, but if it's something that they posted somewhere, I'm just interesting in what was said).
    They aren't there. No one make snarky comments about POP fans.
    A few comments were made about fans with extreme opinions that are insulting or that insulated things that weren't there. But no one labeled any group of fans in any negative way.
    Everyone was just shooting the breeze as usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ealo View Post
    personally, i think clawful was almost perfect - just the shield is a bit too glossy.
    Green points on the shield, I say again! It'll tie the weapons together nicely.

  18. #43
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    Yeah they were talking about things like wishing violence on Toyguru because Queen Marlena would be packaged in her space suit.
    That's what I was thinking as well. I didn't feel it was a knock against the constructive criticisms like "I think X would have looked better if you made it like Y," (or no more soft plastic weapons and hands), but they were talking about the comments like this:

    "You guys seriously just *bleeped* my childhood! If it's not undone, I will mail you a box of *insert something disgusting*!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    I don't believe Eric said the part about keyboard warriors, but I found it a little off-putting that the conversation kind of went from talking about over-the-line anger/frustration-tinged posts, to him having some "specific" examples of comments that he had seen on tap, to then trying to tie it all together with the keyboard warriors discussion.

    This is kind of what I'm talking about with regards to what I mentioned about fans of female figures being singled-out...

    With the bazillion anger-frustration-tinged posts coming out of MOTU fans, why is the instant thought to use "specific" comments from fans of POP? And the thing is, it wasn't really even an accurate account of where the overall disappointment was stemming from. I don't think it's a good example of fans being irrational. Sure there was some frustration, but I think folks need to look past that to see if the points being presented are valid.

    Other than that, I really appreciated the in-depth explanation on the stactions, statues, mini-busts, female articulation etc.
    I did find the example given a little odd. It kind of seemed like that was the most hurtful thing ever said...and I mean...it really isn't. There's been some really nasty comments made before!

    I'm very certain I made the woman comment, and would like to explain where my thought process was when I made it (because I think it was grossly misinterpreted). I didn't mean "Get rid of the 4H and bring in a team of women!" or anything. I think the 4H do great work. I meant, I think it would be beneficial to also have a woman involved in the design/style process when it comes to female figures (at least). Almost all major corporations feel it's important to have men and women on teams. Men and women bring different opinions to the table, have grown through different life experiences and have a different sense of style and such. I mean...they are women. Women know women more than men know women. I think history has shown that pretty well (real life, not toys).

    Why I think a woman wouldn't have put a hole in She-Ra's head is because of their toy background. What does almost every girl in the world own? A Barbie doll. Barbie dolls have removeable clothes, hats, masks, helmets, boots, etc. Same with Polly Pockets, Bratz, and almost any toy that has ever been made for girls. Since they have grown up with these toys and been surrounded by these kinds of designs their entire lives, they would have thought to do She-Ra's mask like they did Catra's.

    It's like the original She-Ra figure in the 80's (which was tested with girls). Her mask was changed so the girls could "see her pretty face" (because that's what they wanted). So, naturally, people would want to have her mask off at some point. All the kids in the 80's did. That was all I meant. Not that the 4H are bad people, terrible sculptors or "out to get women." They are amazing guys, who do great work. I don't know them in person, but I really like them from my correspondence with them through e-mail and such.

    I know all this is in the past now because this design choice has, thankfully, been revised and improved for Catra and hopefully She-Ra 2.0. Catra's masks are perfection. How they connect to her head...perfection. I couldn't have asked for anything better there! I just wanted to explain what I meant with my comment because it kind of sounded like Eric thought I was being a jerk and I really wasn't trying to be! lol

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Green points on the shield, I say again! It'll tie the weapons together nicely.
    I actually like the shield as-is. The blue ties in nicely with his boots, belt, etc. The only green thing he has is his weapon...and I kind of like it that way. I would have to see a mock-up, but I think green on the shield might look a little crazy.
    Last edited by Darkspecter; May 20, 2011 at 05:18pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  19. #44
    Evil Apologist of Mattel Count Marzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    but they were talking about the comments like this:

    "You guys seriously just *bleeped* my childhood! If it's not undone, I will mail you a box of *insert something disgusting*!"
    Yeah...basically Facebook and Youtube are full of immature Keyboard Warriors™. I usually try to avoid that kinda ****, but it is amusing to read sometimes when you're bored so you can diagnose them based on their comments. (well for me it's fun at least lol)
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  20. #45
    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    Yeah they were talking about things like wishing violence on Toyguru because Queen Marlena would be packaged in her space suit.
    Oh good lord. No. That's ridiculous!! NO VIOLENCE. No plain nastiness for that matter. Criticism is good. Violence is bad!

    I need to listen LOL. I haven't had a chance yet today
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  21. #46
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Keyboard warriors are people who are insulting and rude and aggressive, etc, when they would not be this way in person.
    Another term is "keyboard cowards" or "keyboard courage", etc.
    so it's basically the same as a 'troll' then ?

  22. #47
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    so it's basically the same as a 'troll' then ?
    Not really.
    A troll generally visits a forum with the intention of causing trouble.
    A keyboard warrior can apply to any over-spirited individual without a throttle.

  23. #48
    Sorcerer of Night Lord_Of_Destruction's Avatar
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    to answer the question a series of 6 movies is called a hexology

    2= duology
    3= trilogy
    4= quadrilogy
    5= quintology
    6= hexology
    7= septology
    8= octology
    9= nanology
    10= decology
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  24. #49
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Not really.
    A troll generally visits a forum with the intention of causing trouble.
    A keyboard warrior can apply to any over-spirited individual without a throttle.
    aah, I see

  25. #50
    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Marzo View Post
    Are Keyboard Warriors a bootleg of Pixel Dan's beloved Computer Warriors?
    I'm starting to think I should have a t-shirt made for SDCC...


    Tallstar, I don't think you're a Keyboard Warrior. I don't think MegaGearMax is either.

    In fact, I don't think anyone here is a Keyboard Warrior. Some people might make statements that offend others, but, in the end, it's because they disgree with each other that one side might be offended, not because the other side is being inappropriate.

    I know several people here think I am one of these cowardly avengers... even though I am polite and constructive. Having complaints or criticisms, or disliking the way someone does his job does not automatically equal rudeness. I've never threatened anyone. I've never spoken to anyone in a nasty way. I've used my words... I have strong opinions... and, a lot of people seem to like that.

    I am also a grounded enough man to know that I could ask my questions or make my criticisms in person. They are not as vitriolic as some may want to believe. However, I don't mince words... that's a waste of time and life.

    If someone finds honesty rude, when it comes to business and my money, that's unfortunate. I've pulled back when friends here have asked me to do so, because it can affect them and/or this site. I'm happy to do that, and it's appropriate... and I, like anyone else here, can get angrier than I should... about TOYS.


    To sum up... Val & RGD team & 4H, we listen to the podcast, and we buy the toys... your words are powerful. Unless you're willing to be specific about who you consider a "Keyboard Warrior," maybe it's best not to talk about things like that... and ignore their behavior. Labeling them only validates what they do. Without specifics, anyone who finds him/herself criticized for being vocal might suspect that others consider him/her one of these newly classified undesireables.


    Again, I don't think anyone here is a Keyboard Warrior... not even Eamon
    A Want List of Sorts: Peekablue, Saurod, Veena, Calix, Evilseed, 200X Head Pack, Mara, Point Dread & The Talon Fighter... and all the other POP & NA characters.

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