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Thread: DC Reboots Universe.

  1. #426
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Well, I gave it a try. Although Jim Lee's art is as reliably good as always, I thought the story itself was a total snooze-fest. It was a ton of GL and Batman talking and not saying anything particularly interesting or revealing as characters. The plot with little robot agents from Darkseid running around didn't hook me. Neither did the promise of (yawn) Batman versus Superman. I don't get who this book is supposed to be for at all. I think the thing comic writers have forgotten is that even though they can tell these decompressed stories throughout six issue, the first issue still has to be really strong. This was not. I don't feel like it brought anything new to the table as far as these characters go other than the costumes.

    A disappointment.

  2. #427
    Heroic Warrior hopewell's Avatar
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    Well Justice League #1 failed on all levels for me. I gave it to my wife to read and see if she'd start reading comics. Couple pages in and she was confused as hell. Batman and Green Lantern chasing explosive aliens in a comic chock full of fanboy references makes no sense to NEW readers. Imagine telling a non comic reader who sees movies that Christian Bale Batman and Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern are chasing aliens across Gotham and see if they swallow that. That's what this read like.

    As for OLD readers like myself. Re-packaging All Star Batman and passing it off as new JLA is lazy and uninspired as hell. All I'm thinking as I read this is "So what's happened and what's been erased?" Is Hal going evil soon? How else to explain Kyle being around? Is Batman getting his back broken? Is he dying again? How else to explain all the robins? Or will this comic jump past that all to arrive at current continuity?

    Does this sound fun anymore? Or am I working harder than the writers at this point?

  3. #428
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    So I got th enew JL comic and I thought it was great. The dialog between GL and Batman was surpufluous and hysterical. I love the part when Batman steals GL's ring without him noticing it and studies it. The only disappointment for me is that it felt like the same Hal and the Same Bruce. I want different personalities in a rebooted universe. Oh, and I do not get why we have a pointless football player taking up a few pages. Other than that those minor nitpicks though, it was great and I look forward to the next issue.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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  4. #429
    I'm the bad guy. Stinkor's Only Fan's Avatar
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    The football player becomes Cyborg.

  5. #430
    Greatful his pants are on bskcase's Avatar
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    The whole thing is going to be bad. Renumbering is just one of the many horrible things to come.
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  6. #431
    Skeletors evil colorist Predabot's Avatar
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    Just read JL #1 myself, and I have to admit... I'm a little bit disappointed.
    The art was quite good, but the writing was kind of... shallow.

    There's a lot of action-scenes, and most of the basic beats of the story are introduced, but it all feels like it went a bit too fast, there's not much depth to the characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    Well, I gave it a try. Although Jim Lee's art is as reliably good as always, I thought the story itself was a total snooze-fest. It was a ton of GL and Batman talking and not saying anything particularly interesting or revealing as characters. The plot with little robot agents from Darkseid running around didn't hook me. Neither did the promise of (yawn) Batman versus Superman. I don't get who this book is supposed to be for at all. I think the thing comic writers have forgotten is that even though they can tell these decompressed stories throughout six issue, the first issue still has to be really strong. This was not. I don't feel like it brought anything new to the table as far as these characters go other than the costumes.

    A disappointment.
    I can't really agree with you that the story was decompressed. I felt it was more the opposite! Too much stuff breezes by and just kind of happens, and not much in the way of character-development.

    Huh... odd how ones perception can be so different.

  7. #432
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Did anyone get the feeling that it felt like a Marvel Book? With the idea that the world fears superhumans?

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  8. #433
    I'm the bad guy. Stinkor's Only Fan's Avatar
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    I'm hanging in for a while. The first issue of Justice League was too short and didn't really give you enough to justify all the hype. But with that said I'm holding til the end of the year to see what happens.

    I didn't read flashpoint either so I really didn't know if that was necessary or not.

  9. #434
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor's Only Fan View Post
    I didn't read flashpoint either so I really didn't know if that was necessary or not.
    Its not. Flashpoint was awful, and they just shoe-horned "the new 52" into the last few pages of the final issue.

  10. #435
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor's Only Fan View Post
    I'm hanging in for a while. The first issue of Justice League was too short and didn't really give you enough to justify all the hype. But with that said I'm holding til the end of the year to see what happens.

    I didn't read flashpoint either so I really didn't know if that was necessary or not.
    If you want to know how the universe changed, Flash accidentally creates the new timeline while he tried to stop Reverse Flash from killing his mother. Flash goes back in time and stops his former self from using the Cosmic Treadmill to save her, but then this mysterious cloaked female announces that the three timelines (DC, Vertigo and Wildstorm) must unite, as they were splintered long ago by something that's coming.

    So instead of returning things to normal, this mysterious woman creates a new timeline.

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  11. #436
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Predabot View Post
    I can't really agree with you that the story was decompressed. I felt it was more the opposite! Too much stuff breezes by and just kind of happens, and not much in the way of character-development.

    Huh... odd how ones perception can be so different.
    But all that really happens are two fight scenes while Bruce and Hal blather at each other, with a small interlude with Cyborg. I mean, it does kick off in the middle of things without any set-up, but in the grand scheme of the rest of the story there isn't a lot that actually progresses forward, it seems. Decompression isn't always bad to me - sometimes it just means you get time to spend on some nice character moments or whatever, but I think in this case the basic thrust of what the book is supposed to be about wasn't even represented.

  12. #437
    Oracle of Fabulousity Kevenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    If you want to know how the universe changed, Flash accidentally creates the new timeline while he tried to stop Reverse Flash from killing his mother. Flash goes back in time and stops his former self from using the Cosmic Treadmill to save her, but then this mysterious cloaked female announces that the three timelines (DC, Vertigo and Wildstorm) must unite, as they were splintered long ago by something that's coming.

    So instead of returning things to normal, this mysterious woman creates a new timeline.
    I can simplify it even more. "Flash runs really fast and reboots the universe. The end."

    Flashpoint was such a colossal waste of my time and money. I was also disappointed by the Justice League. It was the Batman & Green Lantern Show - BORING.
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  13. #438
    Widget Wrestler Mr. Shokoti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    If you want to know how the universe changed, Flash accidentally creates the new timeline while he tried to stop Reverse Flash from killing his mother. Flash goes back in time and stops his former self from using the Cosmic Treadmill to save her, but then this mysterious cloaked female announces that the three timelines (DC, Vertigo and Wildstorm) must unite, as they were splintered long ago by something that's coming.

    So instead of returning things to normal, this mysterious woman creates a new timeline.
    I haven't even flipped through Flashpoint #5 yet, much less read it, but how is Vertigo a universe/timeline? Unless Superboy's punch made it a separate universe(Swamp Thing even made a cameo in Infinite Crisis), all Vertigo did, besides the creator owned stuff, was take DC characters and either add vulgar language, nudity, and/or a Morrison/Gaiman sensibility to them. They were already a part of the DCU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    It was the Batman & Green Lantern Show - BORING.
    It's probably due to the fact that those 2 family of books are DC's best sellers. Besides, when it was written, DC was probably hoping that the Green Lantern movie would give Hal a legion of new fans.
    Last edited by Mr. Shokoti; September 1, 2011 at 06:39pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  14. #439
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti View Post
    I haven't even flipped through Flashpoint #5 yet, much less read it, but how is Vertigo a universe/timeline? Unless Superboy's punch made it a separate universe(Swamp Thing even made a cameo in Infinite Crisis), all Vertigo did, besides the creator owned stuff, was take DC characters and either add vulgar language, nudity, and/or a Morrison/Gaiman sensibility to them. They were already a part of the DCU.
    I think it wasn't vice-versa. Vertigo characters couldn't run around in DC books and it was like this even down to licensed products like Justice League Unlimited, DCUC, etc. DC always kept that universe as a separate brand--at least from a marketing standpoint.

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  15. #440
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    A little of both. Vertigo was, for the most part, quite separate. But there were occasional exceptions (like Infinity Inc characters briefly appearing in Sandman). And character like Swamp Thing and John Constantine were removed from the DCU and only existed in the "Vertigo Universe".

    Books like Animal Man and Doom Patrol were separate, but after their books were cancelled, they were brought back into the DC Universe proper.

    In 2010 DC editorial made a number of changes, basically making Vertigo only an imprint for creator owned series, and returning the DC owned characters back to the DCU. We saw this with Death appearing in Action Comics, and John Constantine was back after Brightest Day.

    We're going to see lots of Vertigo characters in the new 52.

  16. #441
    Widget Wrestler Mr. Shokoti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I think it wasn't vice-versa. Vertigo characters couldn't run around in DC books and it was like this even down to licensed products like Justice League Unlimited, DCUC, etc. DC always kept that universe as a separate brand--at least from a marketing standpoint.
    Every major Vertigo "Universe" character started in the DCU. Swamp Thing's most popular run by Alan Moore not only was published by DC Comics, it featured Batman, Demon, and other DC characters. The same can be said for Morrison's Animal Man & Doom Patrol. Sandman's first storyline featured the JLA. They may not have been featured in DC Comics after Vertigo was created(although Karen Berger still let Vertigo feature DC characters), but there was no storyline that separated them. If I can say one good thing about Paul Levitz stepping down it's that control of DC characters stuck in Vertigo limbo was taken back from Berger. Levitz always let her have her way but Swamp Thing is right back where he belongs now imo.
    Last edited by Mr. Shokoti; September 1, 2011 at 07:09pm.
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  17. #442
    The Original! guitargod694's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti View Post
    It's probably due to the fact that those 2 family of books are DC's best sellers. Besides, when it was written, DC was probably hoping that the Green Lantern movie would give Hal a legion of new fans.
    Or that Johns just can't get enough Hal Jordan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti View Post
    Every major Vertigo "Universe" character started in the DCU. Swamp Thing's most popular run by Alan Moore not only was published by DC Comics, it featured Batman, Demon, and other DC characters. The same can be said for Morrison's Animal Man & Doom Patrol. Sandman's first storyline featured the JLA. They may not have been featured in DC Comics after Vertigo was created(although Karen Berger still let Vertigo feature DC characters), but there was no storyline that separated them. If I can say one good thing about Paul Levitz stepping down it's that control of DC characters stuck in Vertigo limbo was taken back from Berger. Levitz always let her have her way but Swamp Thing is right back where he belongs now imo.
    I really don't care what the imprint on the cover is...
    if DC can print comics as good as Morrison's Animal Man and Moore's Swamp Thing, sign me up.
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  18. #443
    The power has returned MOTUfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post

    So instead of returning things to normal, this mysterious woman creates a new timeline.
    And she is in the new 52 as well. She was at the Football game in the crowd in JL #1 as well as will be in every single new 52 #1 as an Easter egg. People seem to think she will be watching things and that her appearances might lead to a new huge event years down the road.
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  19. #444
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post
    People seem to think she will be watching things and that her appearances might lead to a new huge event years down the road.
    Or a big reset button if it flops...

  20. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post
    And she is in the new 52 as well. She was at the Football game in the crowd in JL #1 as well as will be in every single new 52 #1 as an Easter egg. People seem to think she will be watching things and that her appearances might lead to a new huge event years down the road.
    I read that today but didn't know about she might lead to a new event.

    I see two things:1. if things go bad sale wise returns things back to normal. aka their escape goat
    2. if sales are good then she leads to the next event

    Now I haven't picked up JLA #1 yet I will this Saturday if it's NOT sold out. So i've avoided the comic meassage boards so I'm a little behind on my theories and rumors.

  21. #446
    The power has returned MOTUfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    Or a big reset button if it flops...
    Quote Originally Posted by midor View Post
    I read that today but didn't know about she might lead to a new event.

    I see two things:1. if things go bad sale wise returns things back to normal. aka their escape goat
    2. if sales are good then she leads to the next event

    Now I haven't picked up JLA #1 yet I will this Saturday if it's NOT sold out. So i've avoided the comic meassage boards so I'm a little behind on my theories and rumors.
    DC is giving all titles six months to see how they go before they begin cutting and back up titles go into play from recent interviews with Dan D.

    I was thinking that she was going to be their escape back to the prior DCU but then we keep getting that there is no going back from Dan D and Jim Lee and that this is it and it is permanent.

    I am still on the fence over Batgirl, her entire history from getting shot by Joker until now is only three years, Gail Simone said on CBR that everything will be explained, her suit with circuitry, her rehab etc, within the first story arc. Also there will likely end up having been two replacement Batgirl's in the time she has been out Cassandra and Stephanie, and that Babs is still in the wheel chair, but needs the suit to be mobile as Batgirl.
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  22. #447
    The Original! guitargod694's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post

    I was thinking that she was going to be their escape back to the prior DCU but then we keep getting that there is no going back from Dan D and Jim Lee and that this is it and it is permanent.
    Yeah, and that might be true, but they have to say that even if it isn't.

    Nothing is truly permanent in comics.
    But if you are trying to sell serialized fiction to people, they have to believe that the stories count.
    If they say well, we might go back to the old thing if this doesn't fly,
    People will think they aren't invested and these comics don't matter and they won't buy 'em.

    You can't really expect them to say anything else at this point no matter what the real situation is.
    And even if they really believe it now, it might change.
    Just have to wait and see.
    Bill :: guitargod694

  23. #448
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    You hit on a reason I've become fairly disenchanted with comics in general. There's a point where so many deaths and rebirths and resets and re-imaginings and creator tweaks happen that it's hard to muster up a lot of attachment to anything that happens.

  24. #449
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post
    I was thinking that she was going to be their escape back to the prior DCU but then we keep getting that there is no going back from Dan D and Jim Lee and that this is it and it is permanent.
    They absolutely HAVE to say that. Just like every costume change and every death is "permanent". And its even more important they say that about something as big as this. They have to sell it as a wholesale, never going back, really we're serious, carved in stone change - or else the whole thing has no chance of working.

    I guarantee there is an "escape plan" fully in place if it bombs.

  25. #450
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
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    It was all just the imaginings of an autistic child with a snow globe...

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