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Thread: DC Reboots Universe.

  1. #376
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by bskcase View Post
    This is bad.

    Is there a phrase in comics to allude to the phrase "Jumping the Shark?"
    Yes. It's called "DCnU".

    So get out your Bat Shark repellant and hold on. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

  2. #377
    Heroic Warrior hopewell's Avatar
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    I am very wary of this reboot. I'm a reader because of a reboot of sorts. Death of Superman was my first comic I ever purchased. It was done out of curiosity and the big media storm. I walked into a comic book store for the first time and picked up the polybagged issue. I enjoyed it and was surprised there was a whole story leading up to it. So I bought those...and then some trades. I saw an X-Men comic there with art by some guy named Jim Lee. That looked cool too so I got it. Then I picked up the new Green Lantern with Kyle Rayner and that was awesome. Before I knew it, I was a huge comic book fan.

    I read all the titles, moved over to Marvel then to all the independent titles. I was exactly what DC hoped for. A new reader.

    Then they brought back Hal Jordan. And Ollie. And Barry. And suddenly my DC universe was taken from me and given back to the Silver Age.

    And now with this new new reboot, apparently Young Justice never happened. And Stephanie Brown is gone. So you know what? I'm done for now. This is now someone's else's DC universe. They got my money and now they scaled back all the characters I fell in love with in the first place. I guess they don't need me anymore. There's new readers to grab.

    This is what I hate about the constant reboots. I'm all for change, growth, evolution. But treating the dc universe like an etch-a-sketch really kills reader loyalty.

  3. #378
    Fudge Supreme Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Todd McFarlane's assessment of the situation. They are just relaunching all of their titles at once and it will be a missed opportunity.

    Though honestly, I don't really see how or why this would bring in a ton of new readers even if the releases were staggered out a bit more. If people didn't have interest in the comics before, why would they now? I think this is going to do more to upset and alienate the readers that they already have than it will to bring new readers in.
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  4. #379
    I'm the bad guy. Stinkor's Only Fan's Avatar
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    If this doesn't work is the next step going to be a maxi-series called "Zero Hour for Final Infinite Crises on Infinite Earths in 52 Issues?"

    IT ALL BEGINS HERE!! a brand new old alternate universe where heroes live, die, live again, go looney, redeem themselves, eat a sandwich then go shopping at Tony Stark's armored V-neck costume boutique and try to figure out their own damn history and timeline!

    If they don't figure it out, what chance for you dear reader?
    Man, it's like a Quesada project on HGH and drunk on Tequila and Red Bull or something.

    I miss comics from the 90's, right now even the Spider-Clone story is looking like Eisner winning material.

  5. #380
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post

    Though honestly, I don't really see how or why this would bring in a ton of new readers even if the releases were staggered out a bit more. If people didn't have interest in the comics before, why would they now? I think this is going to do more to upset and alienate the readers that they already have than it will to bring new readers in.
    This is the interesting part, I would be curious how many people who are currently complaining about some of the changes like those to Superman have actually bought a comic let alone a Superman comic in the last five years (that includes trades). With his titles on selling 35k units a month (to vendors), I have a feeling most of those complaining aren't even buying now. This isn't me asking for everyone now to speak up if they do or don't, not the point for a thread where the percent is most likely going to be higher.

    Of course the flipside is many of those who are praising this might buy the first issue then forget about it when they still don't realize why they don't like what they are reading.

    And about Etcha Sketch I would use Lite Brite as the analogy. They have never done a full on shake to the Etcha Sketch, it's more like reusing and switching out patterns on the Lite Brite. Many of us want them to do an Etcha Sketch shake, but they don't have the huevos to do it because fans think real world comics will disappear. It seems to have worked fantastically for Transformers, despite a group of hold outs who won't admit it.
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  6. #381
    I'm the bad guy. Stinkor's Only Fan's Avatar
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    I'll be honest, I am currently getting Superman books as well as Superman/Batman and both Teen and plain ol Titans.

    Also honestly I haven't read any of my books for months, flirting on a year or more. So I really shouldn't be one to put the screws to DC, I guess I just get a bad vibe. And not to be braggart, but my vibes are usually pretty solid.

    Here's hoping I'm wrong, I like comics too much to have them take a negative hit.

  7. #382
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    Though honestly, I don't really see how or why this would bring in a ton of new readers even if the releases were staggered out a bit more. If people didn't have interest in the comics before, why would they now? I think this is going to do more to upset and alienate the readers that they already have than it will to bring new readers in.
    I can't see it bringing in new readers. I really doubt that there are a significant amount of people out there that want to get into comics but haven't because they were afraid of the continuity.

    To me, the only way to get new readers is to take advantage of the iPad explosion. But DC is killing themselves with that too. I bet at .99/comic, they'd get a ton of new readers willing to give them a try. But the current price point has to look astronomical for new readers.

    Now, I'm not sure the math would work at that price, but maybe .99 for all the 1st issues to suck people in and then a 1.99 for subsequent issues could work.

  8. #383
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    I can't see it bringing in new readers. I really doubt that there are a significant amount of people out there that want to get into comics but haven't because they were afraid of the continuity.

    To me, the only way to get new readers is to take advantage of the iPad explosion. But DC is killing themselves with that too. I bet at .99/comic, they'd get a ton of new readers willing to give them a try. But the current price point has to look astronomical for new readers.

    Now, I'm not sure the math would work at that price, but maybe .99 for all the 1st issues to suck people in and then a 1.99 for subsequent issues could work.
    It's the same idea that has happened with the Ereaders, people are reading more with them. And typically those are being sold for less than their hard copies.

    I understand they don't want to kill off local comic bookstores but, at the same time things are changing and while many of us many not like it it's potentially letting comics die a slow death.
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  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor's Only Fan View Post
    If this doesn't work is the next step going to be a maxi-series called "Zero Hour for Final Infinite Crises on Infinite Earths in 52 Issues?"

    IT ALL BEGINS HERE!! a brand new old alternate universe where heroes live, die, live again, go looney, redeem themselves, eat a sandwich then go shopping at Tony Stark's armored V-neck costume boutique and try to figure out their own damn history and timeline!

    If they don't figure it out, what chance for you dear reader?
    Man, it's like a Quesada project on HGH and drunk on Tequila and Red Bull or something.

    I miss comics from the 90's, right now even the Spider-Clone story is looking like Eisner winning material.

    We have a winner!!!!!

    You, sir, have won this thread.

  10. #385
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    What an amazingly hideous piece of David Finch art.

    Even accounting for perspective, nuBatman must be 7 feet tall while nuAquaman will struggle to gain entry to the "big boy rides" at Disney World. (Also notice nuGL is in front of nuBatman, yet barely comes up to his eyes).

    Oh, and someone may want to look up the term "Amazon"...

    Are they all teleporting through nuSuperman's cape like he's Marvel's Cloak? Or is he the mysterious "Puppetmaster" and they are all his marionettes?

    I'm also assuming there is no bran in nuDC, as everyone appears to be horribly constipated at all times...

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    What an amazingly hideous piece of David Finch art.
    Yikes, no kidding...

    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    Oh, and someone may want to look up the term "Amazon"...
    Amazon - n. Mousy 19 year old.
    Bill :: guitargod694

  12. #387
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    DC shouldn't be asking how can we be more like Marvel. They need to ask the question what can we do to make our product better.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
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  13. #388
    Angast's #1 fan Bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post

    What an amazingly hideous piece of David Finch art.
    ..
    Wonder Woman looks like she's 16.

  14. #389
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    Looks to me like Superman has 4 fingers on each hand.
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  15. #390
    Southern-Fried Preacher Dave-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeologyMule View Post
    Looks to me like Superman has 4 fingers on each hand.
    Well, he is an alien...

  16. #391
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    DC's decision to hastily retouch and re-draw art to remove Wonder Woman's pants is one of those things that just shows how badly thought out this is. They are listening to a group of fans who don't even buy Wonder Woman's comic, and are robbing themselves of the best opportunity to turn her into something more than a joke.

    Oh well.

  17. #392
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    DC's decision to hastily retouch and re-draw art to remove Wonder Woman's pants is one of those things that just shows how badly thought out this is. They are listening to a group of fans who don't even buy Wonder Woman's comic, and are robbing themselves of the best opportunity to turn her into something more than a joke.

    Oh well.
    Wonder Woman is a joke because she doesn't wear pants? I thought fans who don't buy WW's comic wanted her in pants...

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  18. #393
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    I have a question about the Reboot:

    Do the current books come to an end?

  19. #394
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    DC's decision to hastily retouch and re-draw art to remove Wonder Woman's pants is one of those things that just shows how badly thought out this is. They are listening to a group of fans who don't even buy Wonder Woman's comic, and are robbing themselves of the best opportunity to turn her into something more than a joke.

    Oh well.
    Wonder Woman merchandise sales fairly well while she is wearing her swimsuit. Her comic doesn't sale that well, but then Superman's titles only fairs a bit better. I think I recall WW has been pushing 15-25k units, while Superman has been doing 25-35k.

    The Wonder Woman action figure for DC Universe Classics was popular, and the complaints she did have had more to do with her accessories than anything else. Most women who wear tights when dressing as her for things like Halloween will tell you it often has more to do with current weather than it does modesty. People who complained about the pants far outnumbered those who praised it. But based on comic sales numbers the fast majority of people who did both don't buy comics.

    Superman is still many peoples favorite superhero, with his shield still being a common tattoo. Yet they are removing the codpiece because it's 'silly' and his comic isn't doing that well.

    Considering how many people I have had say 'they still make comics' when my Hastings both participates in free comic book day with all merchandise for it in the front of the store and has a big comic rack right behind the music says something else. Maybe they did to start having TV ads for their comics, have characters read them in shows run by Warner. Have that statement of I didn't know they still made them.

    I mean publicity might help since it seems so many people aren't aware that comics exist. Of course price is an issue, but advertise the trades which typically are a better deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker79 View Post
    I have a question about the Reboot:

    Do the current books come to an end?
    All books when this happens will have #1 on their cover. Not all story lines end, for example Green Lantern and Batman will pretty much pick up right where they left off. Action Comics will go into the early part of nuSuperman's career. Justice League will also start by going into more the early part of the teams history. Everything else will keep going, or adjust based on the new direction for the character.
    Last edited by wyldman11; August 8, 2011 at 09:45am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  20. #395
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    I think all WW needs is for someone to take the George Perez stories and bring them to a cartoon or movie, like the Tim Burton movies and Batman the Animated Series' dark Frank Miller-esque Batman replaced the Adam West/Superfriends' Batman.

    Man, how I wish Bruce Timm would make a Wonder Woman Animated Series.

    The bulk of casual knowledge about WW is that she's some athletic woman with an invisible jet and magic lasso. It's similar to Aquaman who is known for breathing underwater and talking to fish.

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  21. #396
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Wonder Woman merchandise sales fairly well while she is wearing her swimsuit. Her comic doesn't sale that well, but then Superman's titles only fairs a bit better. I think I recall WW has been pushing 15-25k units, while Superman has been doing 25-35k.
    The thing is that despite how much criticism JMS' Odyssey run has receieved, it still spiked sales for the Wonder Woman comic to be consistently higher than the "traditional" "nerdy" Gail Simone run. However, I'm not saying this has anything to do with the pants. More later.



    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    The Wonder Woman action figure for DC Universe Classics was popular, and the complaints she did have had more to do with her accessories than anything else. Most women who wear tights when dressing as her for things like Halloween will tell you it often has more to do with current weather than it does modesty. People who complained about the pants far outnumbered those who praised it. But based on comic sales numbers the fast majority of people who did both don't buy comics.
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Wonder Woman is a joke because she doesn't wear pants? I thought fans who don't buy WW's comic wanted her in pants...
    I hang out in a lot of comics forums, as well as chat with the owner of my FLCS and various customers there. While there is certainly a huge number of older fans who feel nostalgia for the "bathing suit" Wonder Woman costume (usually because it was the one shown on the Lynda Carter show), people who don't read anything with Wonder Woman tend to dislike her look a lot.

    The main problem with her is that she's dressed as if she were a patriotic American heroine, but isn't. She represents an entirely different set of ideals. And yes, please don't bother to inform me about the various roundabout "fixes" that explain this away (Like the one about the Stars and Stripes being based on an Amazon emblem originally). Second, her costume looks nothing like her fellow amazons. She just totally randomly runs around in a USA-themed swimsuit. What most people have asked for over the years isn't pants, but a full-time armored look resembling the one she had in Greg Rucka's run (the best Wonder Woman run ever) or even Kingdom Come. But still, pants and NO HIGH HEELS are a good start.

    As it was, the reboot costume originally downplayed her out-of-place american flag motife, while also looking practical enough to fit in the same universe as Green Lantern or Batman. Now though, that they are re-adding white stars to her pants, shrinking them down into a bikini bottom again AND adding high heels to her boots, I feel as if we're taking a step backwards by about 20 years (modern Wonder Woman generally always had flat boots).

    While judging a book by the cover is silly, it still reeks of fan pandering that they are changing her costume back almost to a 1970's-style. It also undermines the more "serious" tone that the reboot WW series seems to go for (going by the solicits). And that JLA variant cover that MGM posted is just trashy and pandering.

  22. #397
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Which I think is the problem DC had, I think those who don't like her costume are a very vocal minority. Made more so by the fact that she is currently wearing a version of said costume. Non comic book sites when they showed images of the new series were flooded with people complaining about the change and those people openly admitted when pressed about not reading comics.

    Also most of the ones who complain tend to be the ones who want more realism, and my response is maybe comics need to embrace the unrealistic more. When they did in the past they sold better, of course you had the dark age but maybe it's time for the Age of Enlightenment and return to that. I see more and more people groaning over Nolan's Batman franchise. And DC has an opportunity to lead out in that. But they want to follow Marvel.
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  23. #398
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    I hang out in a lot of comics forums, as well as chat with the owner of my FLCS and various customers there. While there is certainly a huge number of older fans who feel nostalgia for the "bathing suit" Wonder Woman costume (usually because it was the one shown on the Lynda Carter show), people who don't read anything with Wonder Woman tend to dislike her look a lot.

    The main problem with her is that she's dressed as if she were a patriotic American heroine, but isn't. She represents an entirely different set of ideals. And yes, please don't bother to inform me about the various roundabout "fixes" that explain this away (Like the one about the Stars and Stripes being based on an Amazon emblem originally). Second, her costume looks nothing like her fellow amazons. She just totally randomly runs around in a USA-themed swimsuit. What most people have asked for over the years isn't pants, but a full-time armored look resembling the one she had in Greg Rucka's run (the best Wonder Woman run ever) or even Kingdom Come. But still, pants and NO HIGH HEELS are a good start.

    As it was, the reboot costume originally downplayed her out-of-place american flag motife, while also looking practical enough to fit in the same universe as Green Lantern or Batman. Now though, that they are re-adding white stars to her pants, shrinking them down into a bikini bottom again AND adding high heels to her boots, I feel as if we're taking a step backwards by about 20 years (modern Wonder Woman generally always had flat boots).

    While judging a book by the cover is silly, it still reeks of fan pandering that they are changing her costume back almost to a 1970's-style. It also undermines the more "serious" tone that the reboot WW series seems to go for (going by the solicits). And that JLA variant cover that MGM posted is just trashy and pandering.



    I always liked Christian Zanier's Ultimate Wonder Woman.

    I'd agree with their critisms, although pants aren't the answer and the U.S. bathing suit isn't enough to make me drop the book. I'd prefer something like a more Hellenistic version of her superhero costume. Sorta like the Lois Lane homage from Smallville or the Jim Lee battle armor that she wore in For Tomorrow.
    Last edited by MegaGearMax; August 8, 2011 at 10:55am.

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  24. #399
    Oracle of Fabulousity Kevenn's Avatar
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    Actually, Odessey has long ago dropped down to below what the numbers were when Gail Simone's run on the title ended. It's been a pretty awful story - but that's what happens with Wonder Woman. People (and DC) only focus on the fascade of the character (costume changes), as opposed to the actual character and the personality traits that *really* make Diana Wonder Woman.
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  25. #400
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    Actually, Odessey has long ago dropped down to below what the numbers were when Gail Simone's run on the title ended. It's been a pretty awful story - but that's what happens with Wonder Woman. People (and DC) only focus on the fascade of the character (costume changes), as opposed to the actual character and the personality traits that *really* make Diana Wonder Woman.
    I think the fact that J. Michael Straczynski bailed on the title early and Wonder Woman changing her costume again this month probably really hurt this story.
    Given the bad reaction to the Jim Lee costume, DCnu will probably make this story non-canon.

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