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Thread: DC Reboots Universe.

  1. #676
    The power has returned MOTUfan's Avatar
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    hing I hated about Catwoman #1 is that DC head honchos said that the Batman titles were going to barely be touched that their history will remain in tact. But that Catwoman issue has a HUGE altering that destroys every Batman and Catwoman appearance together from Hush up through Batman Inc. By having Batman and Selina no longer knowing who each other are.
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  2. #677
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post
    hing I hated about Catwoman #1 is that DC head honchos said that the Batman titles were going to barely be touched that their history will remain in tact. But that Catwoman issue has a HUGE altering that destroys every Batman and Catwoman appearance together from Hush up through Batman Inc. By having Batman and Selina no longer knowing who each other are.
    Same with Starfire. She isn't the same character.

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  3. #678
    Widget Wrestler Mr. Shokoti's Avatar
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    I really liked Green Lantern #1, but I still think that DC should have made a hard reboot of the entire universe. This half hearted attempt makes things confusing for new & old fans alike. Batman books are going to selll no matter what so a reboot wouldn't have hurt him & I think the same can be said for GL since Geoff Johns is still writing it.

    I'm behind. I just finished up reading the second week's books and haven't done much more than flip through the third week's. I'm liking more books than not, but I just get so bummed out when I see what's become of characters like Power Girl, Ray Palmer, Starfire, and Superman. I'm both scared & curious about what the future holds for DC after this. Good thing I'm not a betting man since I have no idea what will happen. Hell, I thought the Green Lantern movie was going to be a hit.

    Next week is the book I'm looking forward to the most out of this entire New 52; Aquaman. Not only is he a character I've loved forever, he's been given a popular creative team, he doesn't have a beard or hook, and Mera is actually with him. I don't think she's been with him in his own title since before the original Crisis. They were always either estranged or enemies.
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  4. #679
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti View Post
    I really liked Green Lantern #1, but I still think that DC should have made a hard reboot of the entire universe. This half hearted attempt makes things confusing for new & old fans alike.
    Green Lantern wasn't even a half-hearted reboot. It was strictly a renumbering. It absolutely picked up right where the last issue left off.

    I didn't personally like the issue, but I think I'm totally burnt out on Geoff Johns.

  5. #680
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Red Hood and the Outlaws - Garbage, absolute garbage.
    Wonder Woman - By far the best comic of the week. This was just fantastic and I want to know more about what is going on.

    All I have left to read is Deadman, which to be honest, I am not looking forward too. It isn't because it is Deadman, but because there is just so much freaking dialog in it, a little too much. I don't mind backstory, but when more than half of the comic is filled with 1000 word long essays, I get bored.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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  6. #681
    Heroic Warrior Wonderboy_JMB's Avatar
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    I didn't even finish Red Hood it was so horrible. Worst of the New 52 so far!

  7. #682
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    I hated Stormwatch the most. Hawk and Dove was funny because of the Liefeld art making people so ******.

    Batman and Robin, Birds of Prey, Catwoman, I'm iffy about.

    Red Hood was intriguing to me because of Starfire's new alien personality. How does not remembering the Titans work when they have the same history? Similar reasons that I'm checking out Superman's new "grittier" personality in Action and Batgirl's return in her own book. The curiousity factor.

    Justice League, Action, Batman, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps. were the best so far.

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  8. #683
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    So far I've liked: Action, Animal Man, Batman, Batwoman, Frankenstein, Swamp Thing and Wonder Woman.

    On the fence with Batman & Robin, Batwing, Resurrection Man and Superboy.

    That's 7 to 11 of 39 so far. Not a good ratio at all.

  9. #684
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    a seven year old girls response to her favorite hero Starfire.

    http://michelelee.net/2011/09/24/dear-dc-comics/

    I think the blog and comments go to prove a point I have been saying for awhile in just about any entertainment medium. The difference between teen and adult writing is the level (specifically a shown one) of sex and violence. If you toned it down there would quite frankly be no difference. And all DC has done is thrown in some sex and violence to get a teen rating so they can be more mature. And then they point at their 'kids line' and say we try to sell comics to kids it just doesn't work.
    Last edited by wyldman11; September 28, 2011 at 09:22am.
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  10. #685
    Heroic Warrior EldestSon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    a seven year old girls response to her favorite hero Starfire.

    http://michelelee.net/2011/09/24/dear-dc-comics/

    I think the blog and comments go to prove a point I have been saying for awhile in just about any entertainment medium. The difference between teen and adult writing is the level (specifically a shown one) of sex and violence. If you toned it down there would quite frankly be no difference. And all DC has done is thrown in some sex and violence to get a teen rating so they can be more mature. And then they point at their 'kids line' and say we try to sell comics to kids it just doesn't work.
    um, i think there is a bigger story here:

    “She’s like me. She’s an alien new to the planet and maybe she doesn’t always say the right thing, or know the right thing to do. But she’s a good friend, and she helps people. She’s strong enough to fight the bad guys, even when they hurt her. Even her sister tried to kill her, but Starfire still fights for the good side. And she helps the other heroes, like Superboy and Robin and Raven.
    She’s like me. She’s an alien new to the planet



    seriously tho, i find that "interview" to be suspect at best.

  11. #686
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EldestSon View Post
    um, i think there is a bigger story here:



    seriously tho, i find that "interview" to be suspect at best.
    From comment from the blog author

    -My daughter didn’t read Red Hood #1. I wouldn’t let her either because of the violence or the sexual content. I asked her what she thought based on a few panels, so yeah, it’s not a perfectly neutral opinion.

    -One of the missing pieces here is that her older brother is autistic and yes, she’s 7, but she’s also been the social “speaker” for him since she could speak. She’s always been rather eloquent and expressive because having a sibling with communication problems can force you to communicate for them. I find discussions like this really helps me not underestimate her perceptions.


    ---
    Besides I have a feeling if you polled most comic readers, and the people at this forum most of them would say something along the lines of they have felt alien or different at some point. When I sub I see people wearing the popular comic book shirts, but the ones that show the teen reads comics (Sinestro Corps Shirts and Blue Ring Shirts) or have comics with them or start a conversation with me about them are of the geeky variety and most geeks would say similar things.

    Simply put the girl doesn't feel like she fits in with the rest of her peers she has an older brother who is autistic and she has a geeky pastime.

    I also just read the short packed DC comics bad at math comic. Love the end
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    Last edited by wyldman11; September 28, 2011 at 09:45am.
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  12. #687
    Southern-Fried Preacher Dave-Man's Avatar
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    I'm still intrigued by the direction they are taking with the Superman reboot, but not too happy with some of the changes to the other lines and scratching my head how some lines aren't changed at all while other lines are completely different now.

  13. #688
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    I think the worst thing out of all this is that DC and Warner (and many fans) think the reboot is a success because most titles have gone to a third printing. Of course I am curious how many issues were bagged and boarded because they might have market value in 50 years.

    They will view these as new readers. But many won't be back based on the 'Teen Rating' the titles are getting, the writing is mediocre on half the titles, and many other issues. I find it interesting that they did this to bring in new readers but instead of looking at what groups like Pixar have done they instead limit themselves by focusing on males 18-34. At least before females and those under the age of 15 were getting into the books. Pixar has done a fantastic job with animation by not focusing on demographics but telling stories that parents look forward to taking their kids to, not something they feel dragged to.

    Comic success should be determined by adding new long term (life long ideal) readers, not a spike in sales. I think what they did to Starfire is telling, DC is looking for a string of one night stands not a committed marriage relationship.
    Last edited by wyldman11; September 28, 2011 at 12:22pm.
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  14. #689
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    GREEN LANTERN: NEW GUARDIANS: I'm not sure when the first part takes place (the retelling of Kyle getting his ring). I think its left somewhat intentionally vague so as to show his origin, but not screw with the untouched Green Lantern continuity. Anyway, this continues my complete loss of interest in all thing Green Lantern. Perfunctory story and art, I guess. I don't really care what happens next, nor about any of the characters (save maybe Kyle). The art was typical 90s "Image house style". It just felt like a 20 year-old comic.

  15. #690
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    a seven year old girls response to her favorite hero Starfire.

    http://michelelee.net/2011/09/24/dear-dc-comics/

    I think the blog and comments go to prove a point I have been saying for awhile in just about any entertainment medium. The difference between teen and adult writing is the level (specifically a shown one) of sex and violence. If you toned it down there would quite frankly be no difference. And all DC has done is thrown in some sex and violence to get a teen rating so they can be more mature. And then they point at their 'kids line' and say we try to sell comics to kids it just doesn't work.
    I think the columnist made up that whole story. She didn't show her daughter the two pages with Starfire flying around with her superhero costume on. She went straight to the beach scene instead, not because she wanted to show her daughter her hero, but to push her agenda.

    If the story IS true, then it's sad--the mom DESTROYED her daughter's hero to push her own agenda. Why even show her the Red Hood book when she could have picked up Titans: Games or some other old school Kory appearance? Parents need to use their own judgement and show kids the appropriate versions of those characters. That's like letting your kid read Kick Ass or Tarot. (Kick-Ass #4 is BRUTAL)

    So transparent. I'd rather have the columnist rant than try crap like this.

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  16. #691
    Heroic Warrior EldestSon's Avatar
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    yeah, that's kind of what i meant. my guess is either she played both roles or she had a leading discussion with her daughter before the real interview.

    but it all comes down to "if you don't like it, don't buy it". if it's not rated kid friendly, don't buy it for your kid.

  17. #692
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    I think the columnist made up that whole story. She didn't show her daughter the two pages with Starfire flying around with her superhero costume on. She went straight to the beach scene instead, not because she wanted to show her daughter her hero, but to push her agenda.

    If the story IS true, then it's sad--the mom DESTROYED her daughter's hero to push her own agenda. Why even show her the Red Hood book when she could have picked up Titans: Games or some other old school Kory appearance? Parents need to use their own judgement and show kids the appropriate versions of those characters. That's like letting your kid read Kick Ass or Tarot. (Kick-Ass #4 is BRUTAL)

    So transparent. I'd rather have the columnist rant than try crap like this.
    I just read the issue, the two shots of her in costume didn't move the action along. It's implied she took care of the tanks in the background in one image and based on a line of dialogue. The two shots might as well been her landing on the beach in her bikini or in her superhero costume (the difference between the two isn't even much).

    And I think the parent is using her judgment, the girl buys comics and trades with her own money. The mom being responsible keeps track of what her daughter reads and read the Red Hood issue before not letting her daughter read it. The mom reads the stuff before she lets her daughter do so. Her daughter has been buying the mainstream DC titles. This isn't a mom who gets told about that evil GTA game and finds out her kid is playing it. the mom has open discussions about what is right and not right for her daughter to wear, and the girl realizes that even what the older Starfire wears isn't appropriate for her. Sounds to be me like a responsible parent. Who doesn't let her child read Kick-ass because she isn't old enough for it.
    Last edited by wyldman11; September 28, 2011 at 02:36pm.
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  18. #693
    Oracle of Fabulousity Kevenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EldestSon View Post
    but it all comes down to "if you don't like it, don't buy it". if it's not rated kid friendly, don't buy it for your kid.
    This is the perfect ideaology for building up new readership.

    The industry is shrinking, and right now, there are a lot of people speaking out that the find their content and portrayal of female characters offensive - and the response? "It's not for you." Then how do they expect to ever grow their audience, which was supposed to be the purpose of this whole relaunch?
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  19. #694
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Just looking over some of the titles from the blog author, Author Michele Lee who writes young adult Horror and Science Fiction stories. Her books are listed as PG with possible foul language and steamy scenes. I have a feeling her daughter might not be allowed to read some of the titles.
    Most of her work is short stories put into anthologies.

    Heck her site links to her alter ego M. Lush, writer of paranormal romance and erotic.

    I don't think the woman has an agenda. Heck she has a picture of her sleeping daughter with a copy of Supergirl, that many fans decried. Someone even tried to point that out as ironic.
    Last edited by wyldman11; September 28, 2011 at 02:57pm.
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  20. #695
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    THE DARK KNIGHT #1: The good news is they aren't letting Finch write it himself. The bad news is he's paired with Paul Jenkins (who I am totally convinced that his wonderful Marvel Knights INHUMANS was a total fluke). Finch does his usual "angry" artwork. Its very rendered, but he has a limited number of faces he can draw and even fewer expressions (pretty much the "Finch scowl"). The art is overall OK, but wildly inconsistent. There are some beautiful panels and some very ugly ones.

    Story? Unfortunately they covered a lot of similar aspects as BATMAN #1 - but did none of them with any of the same finesse. It was a completely readable comic, and I'll check out more issues - but I'm pretty unimpressed by all of it.

    Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo absolutely blew them out of the water.

  21. #696
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    I just read the issue, the two shots of her in costume didn't move the action along. It's implied she took care of the tanks in the background in one image and based on a line of dialogue. The two shots might as well been her landing on the beach in her bikini or in her superhero costume (the difference between the two isn't even much).
    It wasn't about the action. It's about letting her see Starfire in a better light than the beach scene. The article makes it sound as if the author turned straight to the beach scene so she can get the exact reaction that she was hoping for--in the process ruining her daughter's hero to prove her point in an online blog.

    And I think the parent is using her judgment, the girl buys comics and trades with her own money. The mom being responsible keeps track of what her daughter reads and read the Red Hood issue before not letting her daughter read it. The mom reads the stuff before she lets her daughter do so.
    Yet, she had to show her daughter the beach scenes in the Red Hood? Not Starfire looking all superheroic and flying, but coming from the pool? To prove some point to online nerds?

    Her daughter has been buying the mainstream DC titles. This isn't a mom who gets told about that evil GTA game and finds out her kid is playing it. the mom has open discussions about what is right and not right for her daughter to wear, and the girl realizes that even what the older Starfire wears isn't appropriate for her.
    Wait...swimwear on the beach isn't appropriate? What would really be in character is for Starfire to not have a bikini on at all!

    Sounds to be me like a responsible parent. Who doesn't let her child read Kick-ass because she isn't old enough for it.
    Instead of destroying her child's hero, why couldn't mom return the book and get Titans: Games, any other Teen Titan TPB or a even some back issue?
    That's like giving Allstar Batman and Robin to your kid instead of Brave and the Bold.

    Some of these "White Knights" are worse than DC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    This is the perfect ideaology for building up new readership.

    The industry is shrinking, and right now, there are a lot of people speaking out that the find their content and portrayal of female characters offensive - and the response? "It's not for you." Then how do they expect to ever grow their audience, which was supposed to be the purpose of this whole relaunch?
    I think fans are confused about the target audience. Judging from the books that I've read, I'd say DC probably made their characters grittier to probably attract teens who spend their allowances on video games, some of them mature games that teens shouldn't be playing. Marcus Fenix, Kratos, Solid Snake, Niko Belac, Nathan Drake, etc. those cool, but gritty video game characters that sell millions of copies.

    They probably didn't mean little kids who should be reading Tiny Titans and Young Justice.

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  22. #697
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    It wasn't about the action. It's about letting her see Starfire in a better light than the beach scene. The article makes it sound as if the author turned straight to the beach scene so she can get the exact reaction that she was hoping for--in the process ruining her daughter's hero to prove her point in an online blog.
    We so disagree on this point. I don't think it shows her in a better light at all. It shows her as a big gun for Red Hood to point at his enemies.

  23. #698
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    The first time she is referred to it's by her bust size, so the when she first appears doesn't put her in a better light.
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  24. #699
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Yo, Jason...let us know if this conversation gets too hot. We are trying to keep it child friendly.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    We so disagree on this point. I don't think it shows her in a better light at all. It shows her as a big gun for Red Hood to point at his enemies.
    I'm talking about for the kid, not for readers who know better.

    Besides, I KNOW we have differing tastes! Doesn't mean I can't enjoy reading a contrary opinion. Looking forward to your view on Teen Titans. Lobdell wrote that too...

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    The first time she is referred to it's by her bust size, so the when she first appears doesn't put her in a better light.
    You think the 7 year old girl is going to know that? All she wants to see is a superhero. Better to show a kid Starfire flying in her costume than walking around a beach in a bikini.

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  25. #700
    Heroic Warrior EldestSon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    This is the perfect ideaology for building up new readership.

    The industry is shrinking, and right now, there are a lot of people speaking out that the find their content and portrayal of female characters offensive - and the response? "It's not for you." Then how do they expect to ever grow their audience, which was supposed to be the purpose of this whole relaunch?
    i actually agree with this. and i agree that the new characterizations were probably made for a wow factor.

    i was just responding to the blog.

    and if the blogger is already letting her daughter read pg or teen rated books, then i don't understand why she would suddenly have a problem here. i mean, either she's ok with her kid reading this subject matter or she's not.

    it just seems suspicious. like "look at my smart kid who is so smart to be able to call out dc on their crappy comic book". or, she personally doesn't like the changes and is going to use her daughter to try and illicit change from dc.

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