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Thread: DC Reboots Universe.

  1. #51
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodine1231 View Post
    Second,I wish they would stop doing monthly releases and release graphic novels every 3 months or something. Comics are way to short a read to have to wait a month in between them.
    That would be great, but the market could never support it.

  2. #52
    Heroic Warrior bodine1231's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    That would be great, but the market could never support it.
    Well what about continuing the usual monthly releases and release the major crossovers as graphic novels? Then the monthly books could focus on the aftermath.

  3. #53
    Heroic Master of Puzzles Thatman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    So...no more stripperific Star Sapphire, Starfire or Arisa? Soranik Natu and Catwoman are gonna zip up their ample cleavages? Black Canary and Zatanna are gonna lose their fishnets? Will Power Girl still have her boob window? Poison Ivy is going to cover up now?

    (How do you make Starfire non-stripperific?)

    This ain't gonna last. I give it a year at the most before the first character returns to his or her iconic look.

    Maybe DC's getting promotional support from Levi's?

    Actually, I really wish Catwoman would zip up. I've never been a huge fan of the modern-era costume (although I think it's the goggles more than anything that bug me), but when she runs around with her zipper down I just think she looks silly, especially when she has the cowl on. How exactly does that help her blend into the night??

    Just IMO, I suppose, but I prefer Catwoman sleek, lithe and mysterious, not Power Girl.
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  4. #54
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatman View Post
    Maybe DC's getting promotional support from Levi's?

    Actually, I really wish Catwoman would zip up. I've never been a huge fan of the modern-era costume (although I think it's the goggles more than anything that bug me), but when she runs around with her zipper down I just think she looks silly, especially when she has the cowl on. How exactly does that help her blend into the night??

    Just IMO, I suppose, but I prefer Catwoman sleek, lithe and mysterious, not Power Girl.
    I've always liked the Jim Balent Catwoman...

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  5. #55
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    The new Superman suit is great.
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  6. #56
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodine1231 View Post
    Well what about continuing the usual monthly releases and release the major crossovers as graphic novels? Then the monthly books could focus on the aftermath.
    They wouldn't sell enough of them to warrant the cost. And it would end up defeating the purpose of crossovers - to sell more singles.

    The American market is just not built for OGNs as the primary product.

  7. #57
    Heroic Warrior Wonderboy_JMB's Avatar
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    Topless Robot puts things in a way I couldn't quite put together, "However, I doubt I'm going to be alone when I say this is a tremendously stupid move as well. Not the digital part -- I still say that's brilliant -- but resetting the entire DC universe actually [screws over longtime DC fans], and at the moment those are the only people reading DC comics. It's the same with Marvel, of course. The whole modern comics industry survives because of the people who have been reading each series for a decade-plus -- and DC has just cast them off. Not in a cool Crisis on Infinite Earths way, but in a "we want younger readers and only younger readers way." They go on to point out some serious flaws with this plan. Click to read the whole thing.

  8. #58
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderboy_JMB View Post
    T Not in a cool Crisis on Infinite Earths way, but in a "we want younger readers and only younger readers way."
    Flashpoint is exactly the same thing COIE was in 1985. That kind of reasoning is silly. DC has been reinventing itself regularily for the last 3 decades.

  9. #59
    Heroic Warrior Piccolo Daimaoh's Avatar
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    I'm interested to see how things work out. I'm excited to see Jim Lee doing a regular series again. I loved Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman and I'm happy to hear he will be working on a new Supes comic. Plus Wonder Woman as a true love interest for the Man of Steel. I'm intrigued.
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  10. #60
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    So out of curiosity, what do you guys think happened in the 50s and 60s when DC revamped all of their characters then? When Jay became Barry. When Alan became Hal. Diana became Wonder Woman instead of Hippolata. ETC. I bet people were then outraged too when their favorites were being rebooted, so it happening now means nothing. It just means we have to accept the change and move on.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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  11. #61
    Angast's #1 fan Bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    So out of curiosity, what do you guys think happened in the 50s and 60s when DC revamped all of their characters then? When Jay became Barry. When Alan became Hal. Diana became Wonder Woman instead of Hippolata. ETC. I bet people were then outraged too when their favorites were being rebooted, so it happening now means nothing. It just means we have to accept the change and move on.
    History lesson time:


    It was easy to do back in the 50's cause "super hero" books were pretty much dead at that time. The market was flooded by horror, romance, and sci-fi books and they sold tons. The only really good selling super hero book at the time was Superman and that was because of the extra media attention he got because of the George Reeves Superman TV series. Batman popularity didn't really hit until of course the Adam West series started in the 60's. Don't get me wrong, Super heroes were around at this time but the market for them was rather small.


    Once "Seduction of the Innocent" was published in 1954 and the Comics Code Authority was launched soon after, distributors had no choice but to go back to the "kid friendly and mother-approved" super heroes or go out of business. Why do you think EC Comics went out of business? Then again, do you even know who EC is?


    Marvel's resurgence, the Lee and Kirby boom, came at the same time cause Marvel also had to readjust their books. Superheroes were the new craze. Everybody was jumping on board.

    It's easy to revamp something when interest is low. If Marvel said they were going to do a revamp of Sleepwalker nobody would care cause there's no interest in him. Change that to Wolverine or Deadpool and then you got a problem.

    DC should scale down their books, like others have already said, and just concentrate on producing great books. Omit the stupid crossovers. They're dumb. You only need one every 3 to 4 years. Revamps are just like alternate covers and or cover enhancements from the 90's, it's just "flash" to get your attention. This is just a band aid to try to fix a gushing wound
    Last edited by Bonehead; June 2, 2011 at 01:06am. Reason: spell check

  12. #62
    Heroic Warrior Wonderboy_JMB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    So out of curiosity, what do you guys think happened in the 50s and 60s when DC revamped all of their characters then? When Jay became Barry. When Alan became Hal. Diana became Wonder Woman instead of Hippolata. ETC. I bet people were then outraged too when their favorites were being rebooted, so it happening now means nothing. It just means we have to accept the change and move on.
    It's not the same because Jay and Alan's comics had been canceled the prior decade and they had been largely forgotten. Barry and Hal were all new characters who just happened to have the names of mostly forgotten characters from the past. It was kinda like the Charlie's Angels movie, where they used a name that people were aware of, but created something all new.

    I stand by the Topless Robot assessment I posted before... old school die-hards are the only ones still supporting mainstream super hero comics and this move spits in those fans' faces.

  13. #63
    Angast's #1 fan Bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderboy_JMB View Post
    It's not the same because Jay and Alan's comics had been canceled the prior decade and they had been largely forgotten. Barry and Hal were all new characters who just happened to have the names of mostly forgotten characters from the past. It was kinda like the Charlie's Angels movie, where they used a name that people were aware of, but created something all new.

    I stand by the Topless Robot assessment I posted before... old school die-hards are the only ones still supporting mainstream super hero comics and this move spits in those fans' faces.
    DC also didn't get rid of the old characters. They were still alive but there were just these newer characters that were similar.

  14. #64
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    DC also didn't get rid of the old characters. They were still alive but there were just these newer characters that were similar.
    It really does not matter, honestly. Superhero comics, like many other old "traditional" hobbies are just falling out of favor. The companies have to try and reclaim part of the market, as they are slowly dying. The spiral just keeps going deeper.

    The most important part of DC's initiative is the one that everyone keeps ignoring - same-day digital releases. There's a huge quiet minority of people who are moderately interested in comics but do not have the cash, time or interest to travel to a comics store or order physical comics online. Being able to add digital comics to your "pull list" will be huge for these people. As it has been for the last 5-ish years, every comic that comes out has been scanned and uploaded within a few days of release anyway. And because the big two have not had digital distribution of their own, people who want to read the comics in pdf form have not been able to. It won't be a huge sales boost, but it probably will do some good. If nothing else, it's a sign that DC understands the technological development going on.

    As for the continuity... it's a loaded gun. On the one hand, having six decades of continuity is an impressive feat. On the other hand, having six decades of continuity means a lot of information. I think it would really behoove DC at this point to streamline their universe to resemble the most celebrated version of it, namely the DC animated universe by Dini and Timm. But since I still don't know how it will play out, I'm afraid it will be just another dose of nostalgia-pandering by Geoff Johns, who is unable to understand that the people who are becoming young adults today and grew up in the 90's want to read about non-silver age characters.

    Barry Allen was a failed character with a dying book as early as the early 80's, Ray Palmer couldn't even hold a title down in the silver age... It would be better if DC could move forward instead of constantly backward. And this new retcon looks like a distressing amount of backward.

  15. #65
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderboy_JMB View Post
    It's not the same because Jay and Alan's comics had been canceled the prior decade and they had been largely forgotten. Barry and Hal were all new characters who just happened to have the names of mostly forgotten characters from the past. It was kinda like the Charlie's Angels movie, where they used a name that people were aware of, but created something all new.

    I stand by the Topless Robot assessment I posted before... old school die-hards are the only ones still supporting mainstream super hero comics and this move spits in those fans' faces.
    It is the same. Super hero comics are obviously losing sales, and as such, they need to change something. It does not matter if comics were cancelled. Aquaman ended a long time ago and now he is getting his own rebooted series. The only difference between then and now is that the characters are the same people, same personalities, just in a newer setting.

    Besides, like I said, they can easily turn this into like Earth 4 if they wanted to. I mean, you have Earth 0 is the DC we know, Earth 1 is the one that recent Superman graphic novel came from (and several others are following s uit), Earth 2 is JSA, Earth 3 are the CSA, Earth 5 is Captain Marvel, Earth 10 is the Freedom Fighters one, while 12 is Batman Beyond, so why can they just not place this new stuff in one of those unused Earths?
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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  16. #66
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    More info! Apparently there WILL be a hard reboot for several titles!
    On Tuesday, we made the announcement in USA Today that DC was undertaking a historic renumbering of 52 superhero titles across the line, starting with JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 by our superstar creators Geoff Johns and Jim Lee. The cover to issue #1 is by Jim Lee and Scott Williams.

    We’re announcing today that several of DC’s most iconic heroes will receive historic new first issues spinning out of the pages of Geoff Johns and Jim Lee’s JUSTICE LEAGUE:

    New York Times bestselling writer Brian Azzarello, author of The Joker and 100 Bullets, teams up with the immensely talented artist Cliff Chiang (Neil Young’s Greendale) for WONDER WOMAN #1, an exciting new series starring the DC Universe’s greatest superheroine. The cover to issue #1 is by Cliff Chiang.

    Geoff Johns, one of comics’ greatest storytellers, reunites with GREEN LANTERN and BRIGHTEST DAY collaborator Ivan Reis to bring you a thrilling new take on the fan-favorite hero of the sea in AQUAMAN #1. The cover to issue #1 is by Ivan Reis and Joe Prado.

    Rising superstar Francis Manapul, fresh off his acclaimed run on THE FLASH with Geoff Johns, makes his comics writing debut in THE FLASH #1, sharing both scripting and art duties with Brian Buccellato. The Flash knows he can’t be everywhere at once, but what happens when he faces an all-new villain who can? The cover to issue #1 is by Francis Manapul and Brian Buccellato.

    BRIGHTER DAYS

    Welcome to a major new vision of the Nuclear Man as writers Ethan Van Sciver and Gail Simone team up with artist Yildiray Cinar to deliver THE FURY OF FIRESTORM #1. Jason Rusch and Ronnie Raymond are two high school students, worlds apart – and now they’re drawn into a conspiracy of super science that bonds them forever in a way they can’t explain or control. The cover to issue #1 is by Ed Benes.

    Batman writer Tony Daniel will team up with artist Philip Tan (GREEN LANTERN: AGENT ORANGE, THE OUTSIDERS) for THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN #1. Carter Hall’s skill at deciphering lost languages has led him to a job with an archeologist who specializes in alien ruins – but will the doctor’s latest discovery spread an alien plague through New York City? No matter the personal cost, Carter Hall must don his cowl and wings and become the new, savage Hawkman to survive. The cover to issue #1 is by Philip Tan.

    Oliver Queen is an orphan who grew up to fight crime as the Green Arrow, a billionaire playboy who uses his fortune to become a superhero – able to fight the most powerful super-villains in the universe with nothing but a bow and arrow. JT Krul will write GREEN ARROW #1 with art by superstar artist Dan Jurgens. The cover to issue #1 is by Dan Jurgens and Norm Rapmund.

    GLOBAL JUSTICE

    A team of internationally-drafted superheroes fight each other and their bureaucratic supervisors as much as they do global crime in JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL #1 from writer Dan Jurgens and artist Aaron Lopresti. The cover to issue #1 is by Aaron Lopresti.

    The world’s third-smartest man – and one of its most eligible bachelors – uses his brains and fists against science gone mad in MISTER TERRIFIC #1, the new series from writer Eric Wallace and artist Roger Robinson. The cover to issue #1 is by J.G. Jones.

    Captain Atom has all the power in the world, but no hope of saving himself. Charged by nuclear energy, possessing vast molecular powers, he has the potential to be a god among men – a hero without limits. But the question is this: Will he lose himself in the process? JT Krul and artist Freddie Williams II take the character in a bold new direction in CAPTAIN ATOM #1. The cover to issue #1 is by Stanley “Artgem” Lau.

    BRAVER AND BOLDER

    The anthology series gets a new look in DC Universe Presents, a new series that will focus on multi-issue story arcs each featuring a different superhero from the DC Universe’s rich cast of characters, told by some of comics’ most exciting writers and artitsts. DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS #1 kicks off the first arc of the series: a Deadman story by Paul Jenkins and Bernard Chang. The cover to issue #1 is by Ryan Sook.

  17. #67
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    I am curious how we do or don't know how forgotten those characters were by the time the silver age started? I have read statements saying both (not here).

    Also how bad were comic sales proportionally then? They might numerically be higher now but are they proportionally higher?

    Also digital distribution is going to depend on cost, some recent facebook discussions have had a very vocal and significantly numbered group of people say flat out comics are too expensive when people have suggested days to go out and support the industry by buying just one or two issues.

    Looking at the sales numbers they have been declining, and I don't think they need to wait for numbers to bottom out before trying something. But honestly "rebooting" to a brand new set of 52 titles is not the way to do it. Especially when recent history just says in 2-3 years it will all be washed away in the newest reboot.
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  18. #68
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Ugh. Jt Krul on two of the first 10 announced books. Horrible.

    I am looking forward to Azz and Chiang on Wonder Woman. That's a solid team.

  19. #69
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    I am curious how we do or don't know how forgotten those characters were by the time the silver age started? I have read statements saying both (not here).

    Also how bad were comic sales proportionally then? They might numerically be higher now but are they proportionally higher?
    Yes, comics sold better back in the Silver Age. All sales figures are relative to their respective era. While the Flash comic probably sold better than most titles do today back then, by 1985 it was selling so poorly by the standards of the day that DC was going to drop it. It had almost happened a few times already, but by 1984 the writing was on the wall. After the first decade or so of excitement, brought on by the gee-whiz science-fiction type superhero stories that people like Gardner Fox and John Broome did, DC heroes were seriously dwindling in popularity. Hawkman, Atom, Metamorpho and many others lost their titles, and Flash and Green Lantern stumbled about. Marvel had simply captured the tastes of the public better, and was pulling ahead meteorically due to their very different and more dynamic style. The style of the silver age DC characters was just not as popular anymore, in decades more interested in social relevance and cynical after things like Vietnam and Watergate.

    They tried several times in the 70's and 80's to make Barry Allen relevant. Originally he had little to no personality at all, so the writers were throwing out various hooks to try and get the readers back. The most memorable one was having Barry as the "black sheep" of the JLA by having him kill his archnemesis Zoom after Zoom murdered Barry's girlfriend Iris and tried to kill his new girlfriend. None of these new angles worked. And since Barry's title was ending, DC decided to take the gamble and kill him off, replacing him with Wally West. An old cliche today, but totally unprecedented back then. It was shocking, and Barry had one of the coolest death scenes ever seen in comics. Suddenly he became a legend, a martyr. Writers like Mark Waid made Barry extremely compelling and told great stories of him post-mortem. In many ways his legend began with his death.

    So yeah, from a failing franchise way past it's prime, the Flash was literally saved by his death.

  20. #70
    The Original! guitargod694's Avatar
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    How many Green Arrow #1 have come out in the last 5 years?
    It feels like that series gets restarted more than your average PC.

    This list of titles is not terribly interesting to me.
    I currently only read Secret Six and Batman, Inc from DC, so I am anxious to see what happens to those titles.

    I was interested in JLI, but I dunno about that creative team.
    Nothing against Jurgens (and I am not familiar with Lopresti) but I was hoping for Geffin/DeMatteis/Maguire.
    Oh well...
    Bill :: guitargod694

  21. #71
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    The Wonder Woman costume looks much better drawn by Cliff Chiang instead of Jim Lee:


  22. #72
    Heroic Eternian Mechanic TechTrek's Avatar
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    not the greatest archers with their aim huh

  23. #73
    Heroic Warrior Wonderboy_JMB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    The Wonder Woman costume looks much better drawn by Cliff Chiang instead of Jim Lee:

    http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2011/06/wwv2_cv1.jpg
    Eeeeeeeeeverything looks better drawn by Cliff Chiang! Dang it! There is a LOT of talent on these books. Johns and Reis on Aquaman?! I can't NOT buy that! And I've been thinking Mr. Terrific should've had his own book for a while now. To quote Brokeback Mountain, DC, Why can't I quit you!

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    DC also didn't get rid of the old characters. They were still alive but there were just these newer characters that were similar.
    Plus, if I remember right jay's & alan's books where bi-monthly.

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