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Thread: DC Reboots Universe.

  1. #1126
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti View Post
    Considering the Earth One books were started before the New 52 as a way of getting new readers into the DCU, they are kinda redundant at this point IMO.
    Good point.

    And I don't think the first one got nearly the reception DC hoped it would.

  2. #1127
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti View Post
    Considering the Earth One books were started before the New 52 as a way of getting new readers into the DCU, they are kinda redundant at this point IMO.
    Considering it was far superior to anything Superman wise the New 52 gave us, I would rather have Earth One than New 52.
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  3. #1128
    Widget Wrestler Mr. Shokoti's Avatar
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    So, was the New 52 even worth it? Most of the sales have gone back to Pre-Flashpoint, my favorite titles(like Aquaman & Batman) could have been done Pre-Flashpoint, and we are stuck with new costumes & status quos that, for the most part, are unpopular with a lot of readers. I really feel DC should have taken an extra year to iron out any potential wrinkles & also rely more on talent than past industry pals. Although, from various interviews I've read, it sounds like Warner Brothers has forced the hands of Didio & crew on a lot of issues. The success of The Dark Knight & Avengers movies is probably the worst thing to happen to fans of DC Comics Pre-Flashpoint. If Disney is doing a similar "hand-on" approach, it doesn't seem to be any better or worse than the past 10 years of JoeyQ & crew IMHO.
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  4. #1129
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    At first, I was excitement for this new universe. I liked the idea, I liked the concept, and I liked the break from the normal universe (I still say this is a different Earth), but it just isn't interesting enough. Most of the series were bland from the start, others took too long to do anything, while some of the good titles were cancelled. Overall, the New 52 has become a joke and could have been brilliant, instead, it has become subpar. Aquaman is the only comic I am still getting and even that may be dropped since I still have to read the last two issues. All-Star Western is really the only series outside of Aquaman I want to read, but I am just going to wait for the trades for it.

    Finally, in the realm of toys, I wanted them last year when the New 52 hype first hit. Now, I really do not care about them, so DC just lost out on getting my money for them.

    Problem is, going back to the "normal" universe is most likely going to require some big Earth shattering event, that is going to be another big crossover series, and I am sick of those. We don't need them every year. I say DC should just cut their loses and have it be revelaed that this is just Earth 46.
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  5. #1130
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti View Post
    So, was the New 52 even worth it?
    I'd say no. I wasn't a fan of the idea, but I gave it a chance. Read the first 5-6 issues of every series and early on there were probably 10-12 books that I was very interested in. But that interest has been quickly waning and now I find myself even less enthused about DC than before the event.

    IMO, the books just aren't that good, and removing so much history has made them even less interesting.

  6. #1131
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    I think most of us predicted this when the whole story came about. I am only reading Green Lantern titles, Justice League Dark, and Demon Knights.

    They need to focus on story telling through dialogue and the art. Stop worrying about page count and issue numbers, and tell a story. If it takes an issue to tell a story do it, if it takes 15 do it. Stop looking at creator names and focus more on their output.

    Why are Alan's Moores stories so highly praised? Why is the Avengers movie doing so well? Why do people like certain cartoon adaptations but not others? It's the story, it's also why people fell in love in the first place.
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  7. #1132
    Widget Wrestler Mr. Shokoti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    I'd say no. I wasn't a fan of the idea, but I gave it a chance. Read the first 5-6 issues of every series and early on there were probably 10-12 books that I was very interested in. But that interest has been quickly waning and now I find myself even less enthused about DC than before the event.

    IMO, the books just aren't that good, and removing so much history has made them even less interesting.
    I agree. While I wasn't eager for a reboot, I was willing to give it a chance. I just feel they were more eager to show how different they were from the old DC rather than any better. I do appreciate that, outside of some plot points in Justice League and Morrison's Batman work, they have really tried hard for tight continuity & a shared universe. Unfortunately, without all of the history, it just isn't the same. I was willing to concede that these were the characters I grew up with who only looked & acted slightly different due to Flashpoint, but Earth 2 kinda drove home the point that "this isn't your father's DCU". It just seems odd that one of DC's selling points in the past was their embracing their history, but these days Marvel seems nostalgic compared to DC.
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  8. #1133
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti View Post
    I agree. While I wasn't eager for a reboot, I was willing to give it a chance. I just feel they were more eager to show how different they were from the old DC rather than any better. I do appreciate that, outside of some plot points in Justice League and Morrison's Batman work, they have really tried hard for tight continuity & a shared universe. Unfortunately, without all of the history, it just isn't the same. I was willing to concede that these were the characters I grew up with who only looked & acted slightly different due to Flashpoint, but Earth 2 kinda drove home the point that "this isn't your father's DCU". It just seems odd that one of DC's selling points in the past was their embracing their history, but these days Marvel seems nostalgic compared to DC.
    But isn't marvel now doing the same thing, but it isn't a reboot?
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  9. #1134
    Widget Wrestler Mr. Shokoti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    But isn't marvel now doing the same thing, but it isn't a reboot?
    Marvel renumbers/retitles their books multiple times a year anyways. The only difference now is that they gave it a title & a press release. I no longer read Marvel, but, from what I understand, the books have the same continuity(although continuity hasn't exactly been Marvel's strong suit over the last decade IMO).
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  10. #1135
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    I gave the new DC a chance, I was reading 10 of the titles at the start. I dropped all but Batman and that was due to the awesome Court of Owls storyline. Ultimately, I'm disappointed. I was loving the Stephanie Brown Batgirl and now that's gone. I was loving Batman Inc. which is still going kinda sorta. Still confused how that all works. I guess confused is how I feel this far in. So for me, at least, I consider it a failure. I miss the old DC. "old" being a very, very relative term

  11. #1136
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Aside from the questionable character designs and mixed-up team choices, I like the New 52 (although not better than Pre-Crisis, which wasn't broken). Particularly Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Justice League.

    I've always liked the warrior woman and mythological aspects of Wonder Woman, so that's why I like the New 52 version. I feel like Greek mythology is Wonder Woman, like Norse mythology is to Thor (or Greek mythology is to Marvel's Hercules). Anytime they start losing those aspects, she's interchangeable with Power Girl or Supergirl. While the Greek pantheon's new forms are interesting, I miss the sandals and togas from Perez and Byrne (didn't read Jiminez's run, but I have the sourcebook--such nice art).

    One of my biggest complaints with Justice League is how much less is being done with Superman, while Batman, Green Lantern and Cyborg hog up all the spotlight. Superman used to be the leader, the exemplary top dog that everyone looked up to. Now he's the quiet, but powerful everyman in the corner, barely saying a word. This is pretty unthinkable.

    Now, I've never read Aquaman, but Ivan Reis' art is awesome. I like Mera too. The New 52 has him doing things that I've never seen him do and look good while doing it. The problem is that Aquaman is powerful, but looks understated due to the even more powerful company that he keeps.

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  12. #1137
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Morrison and Liefeld are leaving DC.

    http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/0...-departure-fr/
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  13. #1138
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Meh, Morrison was not that good of a writer anyway, so this might be a good thing.
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  14. #1139
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    Some of Morrison's Batman stuff has been really good. I like how Morrison blended elements of different eras in Batman history to tell stories off of concepts and characters never fully explored. Sometimes, though, Morrison was really bizarre and not well suited for Batman. I think the Batman Universe was nicely altered and changed by Morrison, but when it comes to actually writing good Batman stories, Scott Snyder is far superior.

    I have to say that I'm a Batman fan above all else, but I like DC comics and am enjoying some aspects of the new 52. Unless a comic is a creator owned and driven comic like Fables, Walking Dead, etc, continuity always seems to be a rather loose. I guess I'm saying that with Batman and the other bat family stories, it doesn't feel like I've lost anything that previously existed. Personally, and you can disagree with me all you want, but I am a huge Batgirl fan and I'm glad to see Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl. I'm loving that storyline and it feels to me like it could very naturally have stemmed from pre-52 continutiy.
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  15. #1140
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Morrison and Liefeld are leaving DC.

    http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/0...-departure-fr/


    I'm surprised Liefeld was able to play with the toys as long as he has been allowed to (art-wise). That stuff is atrocious
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  16. #1141
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    AT one point I was hoping he would come out and say that what he has done over the years was in parody of most comic art, sadly the due date on that is long overdue.

    Morrison I could leave or take, I know some people love his work others hate it and the rest of us wouldn't leave a title if he started writing it most likely.
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  17. #1142
    Heroic Warrior theblock's Avatar
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    Boy the cracks in the hull of the New52 ship are ever-widening I see ! Loosing Morrison must have been panic-inducing for those guys, but Liefeld at this point must have been dead weight. Now Geoff Johns is the only one bailing it out...I'm sorry for those nautical references, I don't know why I threw into em' ! Anyway I heard Grant was just leaving Super Hero comics and (like so many other "rock star writers") is sticking with his creator owned stuff....translation....he's sick of putting up with DC's moronic powers that be, most likely! Can't say I blame him, but should we then assume that whole Multiversity project is to remain a pipe dream? We should just put it up on the shelve with Adam Hughes' All Star Wonder Woman in stuff we'll never see .

    I'm wondering if the clueless people at DC actually thought Liefeld was considered a top-caliber artist, I think maybe they kept him cause he maybe meets deadlines? I mean his work always looks rushed IMHO, sometimes having no background at all in some panels. But seeing how when he took over Deathstroke the issue actually garnered a 0/5 review @ CBR http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...review&id=4737 , never have I seen any comic get a review that bad till now...on that website anyway. And then there's his arrogance, in a ComicsaAlliance article he pretty much responds to all his criticism with an obnoxious "haters gonna hate" response. Now maybe he's just sick of all the comments and blogs going on about how terrible he is, but I think there are some that address how he doesn't seem to fully understand anatomy, even artists who go overboard on unrealistically giant boobs on women like Lady Death or Tarot they're at least not all posing like ballerinas all the time. And even Jim Lee has improved since his days of a dozen variant X-Men covers of the 90s! Earth to Rob, the comic book art form has evolved since then! Hell even new artists and writers on Image have taken his 90s books like Prophet and Glory and ,well, evolved them into something unique like we never would have expected from those properties.

    Also, anyone here checked out those Ami-Comi books? Apparently they're digital only like those MOTU one-shots, which frustrated me since I don't have an iPad, and those have a far more comic book super hero tone then those grimdark Nu52, especially with Wonder Woman and Power Girl, already reviewed! I hope those will get a print release...anyone?
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  18. #1143
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Liefeld isn't known for being on time. He got the job because as best most of us can tell he is good buds with most people in the comic industry and nice guy there or fun to be around or something. At one point people were buying his stuff to at least rubberneck but with the cost of comics and people having less disposable income they don't do that anymore so his titles are most likely not selling well.
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  19. #1144
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    Along with the Stephanie Brown/Babs Gordon Bait and switch outright lie to the fans about Smallville. We will not be seeing Cassandra Cain for a very long time. Had a convo with Kyle Higgins on Twitter on the first

    Cass talk 1.jpg

    Cass talk 2.jpg

    And as for Morrison leaving it was known that after the current 'Season' of Batman Inc concluded which is twelve issues he would be done with DC Comics. So with the delays to #4 being in October, we are looking at his final issue being roughly June 2013 IF there aren't any more delays.
    Last edited by Mermista; August 3, 2012 at 02:27pm.
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  20. #1145
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Liefeld isn't known for being on time. He got the job because as best most of us can tell he is good buds with most people in the comic industry and nice guy there or fun to be around or something. At one point people were buying his stuff to at least rubberneck but with the cost of comics and people having less disposable income they don't do that anymore so his titles are most likely not selling well.
    Back in the 90's he was liked, but fans were burned by his constant late or never completed books and grew tired of his antics over time. I think his art has actually gotten WORSE. His New Mutants/Youngblood stuff was better than these books now.

    I've heard Liefeld say that he's late on his own books, but he's never late when working on someone else's books. I don't know if that's true or not.

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  21. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shokoti View Post
    I'm not going to lie. I actually look forward to news of the latest cancellations of DC's New 52 just because it leads to new titles. While she may look a little different, I'm excited for new stories of Amethyst Princess Of Gemworld. I remember picking this book off of a grocery store spinner rack due to its great cover & buying it immediately...

    http://westfieldcomics.com/blog/wp-c...yst-Vol.-1.jpg

    While it was always a secret from my friends(kids can be ruthless with each other), I always dug the character. She's supposed to be showing up on DC Nation as well.
    Along with Misfit from the old Birds of Prey, Gail Simones vision for her was back when Charlie first appeared and claimed she was a Princess, she was actually going to be revealed to be a Lost Princess of Gemworld. But the New 52 kinda screwed that up along with Helena Bertinelli being murdered, Oracle never existing and all signs pointing to Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain never existing as well.

    Glad DC Comics got the market share they have proven they only care about the money only, and not one bit about the fans.
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  22. #1147
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Back in the 90's he was liked, but fans were burned by his constant late or never completed books and grew tired of his antics over time. I think his art has actually gotten WORSE. His New Mutants/Youngblood stuff was better than these books now.

    I've heard Liefeld say that he's late on his own books, but he's never late when working on someone else's books. I don't know if that's true or not.
    I always thought during the 90s there were those who liked him and those who couldn't stand his art. Just the number of those who dislike his work has increased, I also recall most of his fans tended to be younger and now have aged and see the problems with the art.

    I also don't know if it's his art has gotten worse or it's more inkers/colorists aren't covering his stuff up as much.

    And about late not sure I just know he was late on stuff in the past, it could be he just needs a slave driver to get his work in. But I think I heard he may not be late for someone else's book but he does push the deadlines.
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  23. #1148
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    I always thought during the 90s there were those who liked him and those who couldn't stand his art. Just the number of those who dislike his work has increased, I also recall most of his fans tended to be younger and now have aged and see the problems with the art.
    I'll admit I loved New Mutants/X-Force era Liefeld at the time. But I look back at it now and can't for the life of me figure out what I was thinking. There is literally nothing appealing (or even remotely "correct") in any of it.

    I also don't know if it's his art has gotten worse or it's more inkers/colorists aren't covering his stuff up as much.
    His Hawk & Dove miniseries still stands out as the best work of his career, but supposedly Karl Kessel redraw massive amounts of it during the inking phase.

  24. #1149
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    Anyone who wants to try to help with getting Stephanie Brown back into the DCU check out http://wafflesforstephanie.tumblr.com/ along with on twitter @wafflesforsteph I am thinking of doing a writing campain, as Gail Simone said often actually writing letters can help over emails or petitions online to try to get Cassandra Cain back into the DCU and to hopefully get DC to acknowledge Oracle as part of Barbaras history in the three year time gap as what they did was so not cool at all, they disrespected the disabled community that includes myself by making Babs walk again and ignoring her 20 plus year history this way.
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  25. #1150
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Why would I want the worst character in DC back? The only thing she ever did was start an entire gang war across Gotham. Black Mask killing her was the best thing to happen to her.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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