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Thread: DC Reboots Universe.

  1. #176
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    • I like Robin's look--it's just a little too busy.
    • Wondergirl has a barbed wire lasso?
    • Kid Flash looks like Iron Man
    • Ugh...that Hawk...Liefeld was better in the 90's.
    • Well, at least DC has the 3 month thing to keep the late artists in check so Liefeld has to be on time.

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  2. #177
    Almighty Dictator Skullface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatman View Post
    It's too much to hope this is all a practical joke, right?

    I hate to sound like a typical fanboy, but nothing I'm seeing is making me want to read any of this. If this were an Ultimates-type universe this would all be fine, but as it is I'm seriously not looking forward to any of these titles.
    Honestly, the only books I'm actually REALLY excited for are Aquaman (Johns & Reis will be awesome) & Batman. (I've loved Capullo's art since his 1st guest appearance on Spwan)
    This space for rent, apparently.....

  3. #178
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    I am anxious to see how Aquaman is in this reboot, the Flashpoint Aquaman has actually entertained me more than the past 20 years of Aquaman stories have
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  4. #179
    Angast's #1 fan Bonehead's Avatar
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    A few days ago some of these books actually looked pretty good...


    ...but then DC throws us "Extreme" Teen Titans and Liefeld H&D. Thanks for the buzzkill DC!!


    Aquaman IMO will be the book to buy. Johns has proven he knows how to reignite characters that have been ill used. I hope he he can do for Aquqman the same he did for GL.

    The Babs retcon has been long coming. As much as I've enjoyed her time as Oracle, I've more so missed Babs Batgirl. I always thought injuring her was one of DC worst decisions. I'm a big fan of Gail Simone so hopefully this book will be successful.

    Judd Winick on Catwoman...ugh...PASS!


    Fabian Nicieza on LEGION LOST sounds really good. IMO he's really under rated as a writer.

    Constantine in JLD. WRONG! WRONG WRONG!

    The Demon sounds interesting. The fact that it doesn't take place in the "current" DCU is a plus.

  5. #180
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    The Babs retcon has been long coming. As much as I've enjoyed her time as Oracle, I've more so missed Babs Batgirl. I always thought injuring her was one of DC worst decisions. I'm a big fan of Gail Simone so hopefully this book will be successful.
    I'm the opposite on this one. I think Oracle is a MUCH more interesting and unique character than Batgirl ever was. And I've even really liked her training Stephanie Brown as the new Batgirl.

    Of all the changes being made, this is the one I'm most opposed to.

  6. #181
    Angast's #1 fan Bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    I'm the opposite on this one. I think Oracle is a MUCH more interesting and unique character than Batgirl ever was. And I've even really liked her training Stephanie Brown as the new Batgirl.

    Of all the changes being made, this is the one I'm most opposed to.
    I guess I'm the exact opposite.

    I grew up on Barbara being Batgirl so she's the only Batgirl to me. I never even bothered with the Stephanie Batgirl book so I can't comment on it.

    I just feel that her injury was done just for shock value. DC just felt she was an expendable character so Alan Moore's script was approved. DC has admitted in the past that they really felt that no one cared about Barbara, which they learned soon after The Killing Joke was published, was wrong. Orstander himself has admitted that Oracle was created cause the outcry against her injury was severe. DC had no choice. They had to do something. It's funny how history has forgotten all about this since The Killing Joke has gone on to be critically considered one of the best Bat stories ever.

    I personally still remember how angry I was when this happened back in '88.

  7. #182
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    I guess I'm the exact opposite.

    I grew up on Barbara being Batgirl so she's the only Batgirl to me. I never even bothered with the Stephanie Batgirl book so I can't comment on it.

    I just feel that her injury was done just for shock value. DC just felt she was an expendable character so Alan Moore's script was approved. DC has admitted in the past that they really felt that no one cared about Barbara, which they learned soon after The Killing Joke was published, was wrong. Orstander himself has admitted that Oracle was created cause the outcry against her injury was severe. DC had no choice. They had to do something. It's funny how history has forgotten all about this since The Killing Joke has gone on to be critically considered one of the best Bat stories ever.

    I personally still remember how angry I was when this happened back in '88.
    I grew up with her as Batgirl too, and I was shocked when The Killing Joke came out. But I also think Oracle is a much stronger character. Just like I don't want to see Grayson go back to being Robin.

    IMO, Batgirl is a decent character, but she's derivative. She's just a "not as good version" of Batman. Her whole raison d'être reeks of tokenism. "Look kids, girls can be pale imitations of Batman too." How much better is it that she carves out her own niche as a hacker/strategist/spy/investigator/whatever and emphasize the intelligence and personality, than*have her another spandex kung-fu girl?

    And I think losing Oracle is a big blow to the DCU. I know that she has her apprentice, Wendy (who I have no idea if there are plans for), but its not the same thing. A person in a wheelchair at a computer is not the interesting part of Oracle. It's Gordon's personality, her history with the Bat-family and the pathos of her having lost her legs as a superhero that make Oracle interesting. You can't just stick someone else in a wheelchair at a computer and expect anyone to care equally. This is not true for Batgirl, where you can stick just about anyone in the costume.

  8. #183
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    DC made a 2nd Teen Titans cover, not much better

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  9. #184
    Heroic Warrior Wonderboy_JMB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    I grew up with her as Batgirl too, and I was shocked when The Killing Joke came out. But I also think Oracle is a much stronger character. Just like I don't want to see Grayson go back to being Robin.

    IMO, Batgirl is a decent character, but she's derivative. She's just a "not as good version" of Batman. Her whole raison d'être reeks of tokenism. "Look kids, girls can be pale imitations of Batman too." How much better is it that she carves out her own niche as a hacker/strategist/spy/investigator/whatever and emphasize the intelligence and personality, than*have her another spandex kung-fu girl?

    And I think losing Oracle is a big blow to the DCU. I know that she has her apprentice, Wendy (who I have no idea if there are plans for), but its not the same thing. A person in a wheelchair at a computer is not the interesting part of Oracle. It's Gordon's personality, her history with the Bat-family and the pathos of her having lost her legs as a superhero that make Oracle interesting. You can't just stick someone else in a wheelchair at a computer and expect anyone to care equally. This is not true for Batgirl, where you can stick just about anyone in the costume.
    And I respectfully disagree.

    I think Oracle is a phenomenal character. Her absence will leave a giant gaping hole in the DCU, as there are... well, outside of Professor X, very few other differently able heroes. BUT, Barbara as Batgirl is THE icon. You can't make someone else Superman or Wonder Woman or Batman... the same goes for Batgirl. Like it or not, scroll through Deviant Art or Tumblr and... first of all, you find hundreds of images of Babs as Batgirl solo. But beyond that, you see image after image of the modern Bat Family or the modern heroines of the DCU ALL depicted as they appear today, belly tee Supergirl, Black Canary in her current costume, etc... but NONE of them feature Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown or Oracle. They all feature Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Possibly Oracle's leading cheering squad on the internet, DC Women Kicking Ass even features as its masthead a painting of all the current super ladies of the DCU, Kate Kane as Batwoman, Supergirl in her belly tee... and Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. (Disclaimer, the owner of that blog didn't create that piece, and would probably prefer Oracle in her place.)

    Please read this write up: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/0...rdon-disabled/

    I understand that people of all persuasions should feel represented, but Barbara is the ONLY REAL Batgirl. Period. There can be another differently able character in comics, but there is only one REAL Batgirl.

  10. #185
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderboy_JMB View Post
    And I respectfully disagree.

    I think Oracle is a phenomenal character. Her absence will leave a giant gaping hole in the DCU, as there are... well, outside of Professor X, very few other differently able heroes. BUT, Barbara as Batgirl is THE icon. You can't make someone else Superman or Wonder Woman or Batman... the same goes for Batgirl. Like it or not, scroll through Deviant Art or Tumblr and... first of all, you find hundreds of images of Babs as Batgirl solo. But beyond that, you see image after image of the modern Bat Family or the modern heroines of the DCU ALL depicted as they appear today, belly tee Supergirl, Black Canary in her current costume, etc... but NONE of them feature Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown or Oracle. They all feature Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Possibly Oracle's leading cheering squad on the internet, DC Women Kicking Ass even features as its masthead a painting of all the current super ladies of the DCU, Kate Kane as Batwoman, Supergirl in her belly tee... and Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. (Disclaimer, the owner of that blog didn't create that piece, and would probably prefer Oracle in her place.)

    Please read this write up: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/0...rdon-disabled/

    I understand that people of all persuasions should feel represented, but Barbara is the ONLY REAL Batgirl. Period. There can be another differently able character in comics, but there is only one REAL Batgirl.
    I get that way, but you're not really arguing the same point I am.

    Its not about having a disabled hero (or representing a wider range of people), its about the journey a hero made after being disabled. To me, Oracle is a much richer character than Batgirl ever was. Barbra Gordon has evolved into so much more than just a knock-off Batman, and she had become one of the more important (if less known) characters in the DCU. I'd make the same argument for Grayson becoming Nightwing and not staying Robin. Nightwing is a terrific transformation/growth of a character. And everyone that has been Robin since has brought something new to the role. I wouldn't change a thing there. But I would never have anyone replace Nightwing because that character is the result of so many years of growth that its not an extension of what Robin would become and its not a halfway point between Robin and Batman. Its just who Grayson grew to be. In fact I love the idea of Robins all eventually growing up and assuming their own identities. And again, IMO, Batgirl is much more like Robin than she is Batman.

    And I like Stephanie Brown, and I liked Cassandra Cain, but I'd be OK if no one was Batgirl again as well. Oracle is unique and its a shame to lose her for a character that is so much less so.

    I also think if you are trying to bring in new readers who aren't overly familiar with DC characters, selling them on "hacker/strategist/spy/investigator/whatever with ties to the Batman" is a more interesting hook than "girl dresses like Batman".
    Last edited by BCI Guy; June 9, 2011 at 12:29am.

  11. #186
    Evil Horde Poison Master! Mr_Yuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    DC made a 2nd Teen Titans cover, not much better
    Wow. I hate the look and the synopsis of this version of Teen titans. So we've got a Tim Drake that appears to have never been Robin. A Wonder Girl who's a thief. And ridiculous costumes for Red Robin and Superboy. Yuck.

    Outside of the change of Batgirl being Barbara again, I don't think I've hated a change as much as I have with this one.

  12. #187
    Filmation Ghostbuster Vanquest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    The Animal Man cover is pretty cool.

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  13. #188
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderboy_JMB View Post
    And I respectfully disagree.

    Like it or not, scroll through Deviant Art or Tumblr and... first of all, you find hundreds of images of Babs as Batgirl solo. But beyond that, you see image after image of the modern Bat Family or the modern heroines of the DCU ALL depicted as they appear today, belly tee Supergirl, Black Canary in her current costume, etc... but NONE of them feature Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown or Oracle. They all feature Barbara Gordon as Batgirl.
    I just did this and on the first page of a deviantart search of most popular all time Cassandra Cain comes up with six images on the first page. And subsequent pages have 2-6 images of her. Half of Barbara as Batgirl are animated series versions, or alternate or original designs. It's five pages back before an obvious Stephanie Brown shows up. Considering she has been Batgirl for around a year that isn't bad. And Cassandra started being Batgirl after Helena was it for a bit, and before that an 11 year dry spell.

    Also considering every animated or live action version of the character has been Barbara this makes more sense. And before you say iconic, the story has rarely progressed far enough for changes to the character to be made.

    That isn't bad for those two characters considering average Joe doesn't know what has happened (or still exist)in comics in 20-30 (sometimes more) years. Considering how many people I came into contact who thought it was cool they made Green Lantern black for the Justice League cartoon. And when I say for the cartoon, I mean as in it was something done just for the cartoon despite the character being 30 years old at the time.
    Last edited by wyldman11; June 9, 2011 at 10:19am.
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  14. #189
    Heroic Warrior
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    Now up to 46 titles

    [QUOTE=midor;2731356]I'm basing this list off of offical announcements . No probables. no rumored, most likelies or I was reading over at.......

    JLA
    Wonder Woman
    Aquaman
    Flash
    Fury of Firestorm
    Hawkman
    Green Arrow
    JLI
    Mr Terrific
    Captain Atom
    DC Universe Presents
    GL
    GL Corps
    GL:The New Guardians
    Red Lanterns
    Batman
    Detective Comics
    Batman & Robin
    Batman: Dark Knight
    Birds of Prey
    Batgirl
    Catwoman
    Batwing
    Batwoman
    Red Hood and The Outlaws
    Nightwing
    Animal Man
    Swamp Thing
    Resurrection Man
    Demon Knights
    Justice League Dark
    Frankenstein, Agent of Shade
    VooDoo
    I, Vampire
    Legion Lost
    Legion of Superheroes
    Teen Titans
    Static Shock
    Hawk And Dove

    Adding to the list:
    Stormwatch
    Blackhawks
    Sgt Rock And The Men of War
    All-Star Western
    Deathstroke
    Grifter
    OMAC

  15. #190
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Normally I wouldn't care about any of the Wildstorm books, but I'll definitely give Grifter a shot.

    Nathan Edmonson is currently writing an absolutely terrific miniseries for Image called "Who Is Jake Ellis". And Cafu and Bit are a great art team.

    Man...I'm looking forward to a Grifter book...

    -------

    Stormwatch on the other hand. Not so much. Ugly cover and man, they wrecked one of the few decent costumes they had in Midnighter. Although I do like Paul Cornell (I thought "Captain Britain and MI-13" was the most underrated book Marvel has put out in years).

    Last edited by BCI Guy; June 9, 2011 at 12:30pm.

  16. #191
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Looks like the Martian Manhunter is getting pants also.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

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    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  17. #192
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Looks like the Martian Manhunter is getting pants also.
    He deserves pants. And actually I don't think I hate his new outfit.

  18. #193
    I'm the bad guy. Stinkor's Only Fan's Avatar
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    Solomon grundy want pants too!!!

  19. #194
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    He deserves pants. And actually I don't think I hate his new outfit.
    I agree, I was just watching to see if they adjusted his costume considering all the females getting pants.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

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    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  20. #195
    Widget Godzilla's Avatar
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    Alot of the rebooted titles are really hit and miss with me. Some have me interested, while others not so much. Some of the costume changes make me think of 1990's Image and Malibu comics to be perfectly honest.

  21. #196
    Leader of the Autobots Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    So far, EVERYTHING I've seen with this rebooted DC is making me not want to read anything by them again. I'm a huge Green Lantern fan and if they're basically rewriting the history of Hal, John, Kyle and Guy and ignoring everything that made the characters what they've been for the last decade, I'm done.

    I'll stick with IDW and my Transformers comics. At least I'll be saving money LOL
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  22. #197
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    I hate the Perez Superman costume - especially the boots. I love George Perez, he represents everything that wasgood about the 80s. But IMO, costume design has never been a strong suit of his (although this could very well be Jim Lee's design).





    On the other hand, I kind of like the Supergirl costume:







    And I have no idea what the new Superboy is (android? cyborg?), but I'm a fan of Eric Canete's work (hope he's doing interiors too):



    Last edited by BCI Guy; June 9, 2011 at 03:51pm.

  23. #198
    Almighty Dictator Skullface's Avatar
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    Jim Lee, just save shelf space for other titles and do a single WildC.A.T.S. book. When it gets cancelled in under a year, retailers will have less empty shelf space to fill.

    Don't get me wrong - I enjoyed the series back in the day under Image, but so many people need to let go of the '90s comic industry as a whole and move on.....
    This space for rent, apparently.....

  24. #199
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    So far, EVERYTHING I've seen with this rebooted DC is making me not want to read anything by them again. I'm a huge Green Lantern fan and if they're basically rewriting the history of Hal, John, Kyle and Guy and ignoring everything that made the characters what they've been for the last decade, I'm done.

    I'll stick with IDW and my Transformers comics. At least I'll be saving money LOL
    Green Lantern and Batman are getting the least touched up, most likely because both books are doing well. Most of the titles and characters that are getting re-______ aren't performing to DC's expectations. So my guess is they are trying to make changed to said characters to see if that will make them more desirable.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  25. #200
    Leader of the Autobots Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    I hate the Perez Superman costume - especially the boots. I love George Perez, he represents everything that wasgood about the 80s. But IMO, costume design has never been a strong suit of his (although this could very well be Jim Lee's design).

    On the other hand, I kind of like the Supergirl costume:

    And I have no idea what the new Superboy is (android? cyborg?), but I'm a fan of Eric Canete's work (hope he's doing interiors too):
    All I can say about those redesigns is this...YUCK.
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