can Toyguru get Sorceress's colours fixed?

[Fabulous]

Loved the way the figure looked at SDCC this year. Don't change her

[SCB]

Well this totally backfired.

[Swanmarsh]

The more I see of those SDCC pictures, the more I think this is the most beautiful figure ever!

Well this totally backfired.

[chuc98]

I'm glad Toyguru has spoken out about this. She's beautiful the way she is now, there's no need for any color changes.

[JonWes]

Guess we can close this thread up as the answer is no. I feel for the people who preferred the all-orange, but I do think the solution they came up with is perfect.

[Darth Daddy]

I think the new Sorceress figure looks great; the blue on the inside of the wings does not bother me at all. I am excited to have her added to my collection next year.

[Dark_Phoenix]

She's the one I've been waiting for since the beginning and am totally happy with the blue tips. I do like the orange only, but either way works for me

[TJRules]

She looks awesome! No changes needed.

[Baena]

I'm glad Toyguru has spoken out about this. She's beautiful the way she is now, there's no need for any color changes.

Agreed.

[fball13z]

Loved her the way she was shown, non issue for me

[VictoryLiger]

Until I saw this thread, I would have sworn up and down that she had the blue there since the character was created. That being said, I like the blue.

[kylun flac]

colors could go either way, but i do like how she is. only thing i would like would be the one open hand.

[Agostinho]

Repaint variant option. I'd love another release with the all orange inner wings and a spell-casting left hand, but I love this version as well. I don't need a change per se.

[Steph]

1) It's really the way birds feathers are. Lighter coloured on the underside.

Neither would nature.

Sorry, this point bugs me because you are ignoring how bird feathers on wings and the pigmentation of those feathers actually work.

1) The blue feathers here on the Sorceress are the primary and secondary feather parts of the wing. If they are blue on the outside, by nature they would have to be blue on the inside because they are the same feather. While there is overlap, the feathers are not doubled up.There aren't separate blue feathers on the outside and orange feathers on the inside on the primary and secondary feathers. That only happens on the coverlet feathers because they cover the inside and outside fleshy parts of the wing.

2) It is true that the underside of the primary and secondary can and are sometimes lighter. But you nature defense falls flat here too because orange is not lighter than blue - its a different color produce by a different mechanism (see number 3). If feathers are blue on the outside, they would be a paler blue on the inside. If they are orange on the outside, the would be a paler orange on the outside.

3) Normal bird feathers (not albinos) without color appear white because of there structural makeup. If you ground a white feather into powder, it would appear translucent white.

• Orange (yellows and reds) is produced by the pigments called carotenoids. If you ground down an orange feather into powder, it would appear orange.
  
• Blue is not produced by a pigment, but by structural reflective mirror like bits called iridophore. If you ground down a blue feather into powder, it would appear translucent white.
  
• If you had a feather that featured both an orange pigment and the structures for blue, that feather would be a muddy green, brown, or gray depending on the exact mix. If you ground down a feather with both orange and blue bits in it into powder, it would appear orange (the reflected properties of the "mirrors" would not be lined up properly to reflect blue).
  
• To further complicate things, most true blue feathers have iridophores AND the pigment melanin to make the various shades of blue. If you were to add melanin to carotenoids, the orange would turn to browns, dark reds or dark oranges.

Basically, you can have both blue and orange mixed in the same feather without getting some sort of green, brown, or gray.

4) We see colors on bird feather because how light is reflected through the translucent structures of the feather combined- the ranchise, barbs, hooklets, and calumus. Because of this the feather will always be in the same color range on the outside and inside- the only thing that can change on the inside is to show more white (because of structural differences). The outside color will always show through.



If it is your opinion that she should have orange on the inside because this is fantasy or how she has classically appeared, that's fine. Just don't drag nature into this, because nature supports the 4 Horsemen version.

[Marvelous0ne]

Repaint variant option. I'd love another release with the all orange inner wings and a spell-casting left hand, but I love this version as well. I don't need a change per se.

If they did that I would go to Toyguru personally and throw a pie in his face. Rather see something better regarding repaints. How about that what was it White or pink colored mini comic version?

[Shokoti's Slave]

If they did that I would go to Toyguru personally and throw a pie in his face. Rather see something better regarding repaints. How about that what was it White or pink colored mini comic version?

Then *I'd* have to throw a pie in his face.

[TUC138]

I think the Sorceress is AWESOME ! I dont want to see ANY Change in her !

As for BG Evil-Lyn, thats COMPLETELY a different story !!!

[Eternian_Canadian]

I love how some people are reacting as though I'm being negative or a hater. I simply brought something up. I said in my post that she's 99% perfect, and I'm very excited about her...I just prefer her to be true to the original. I'm not one of those people who is going to have a hissy-fit or refuse to buy it or slag off Toyguru or Matty if it stays as blue.

To clarify, for the most part I've loved the MOTUC line and have very few complaints about it. I think Toyguru is doing an amazing job, I greatly appreciate how he listens to and takes the time to respond to fans. In this case his response wasn't in favour to my preference for the figure, but so be it, I'll still buy Sorceress, as it's not a big enough issue for me to snub the figure. Thanks to Toyguru for addressing it!

[GrtEternal]

I think the orange with blue is much better. Gives her more depth, IMO!

[carlo]

heres a shocking revelation..

why hasn't BLUE posted in this thread yet?

he is the sorceress, King!

[Darkspecter]

Sorry, this point bugs me because you are ignoring how bird feathers on wings and the pigmentation of those feathers actually work.

1) The blue feathers here on the Sorceress are the primary and secondary feather parts of the wing. If they are blue on the outside, by nature they would have to be blue on the inside because they are the same feather. While there is overlap, the feathers are not doubled up.There aren't separate blue feathers on the outside and orange feathers on the inside on the primary and secondary feathers. That only happens on the coverlet feathers because they cover the inside and outside fleshy parts of the wing.

2) It is true that the underside of the primary and secondary can and are sometimes lighter. But you nature defense falls flat here too because orange is not lighter than blue - its a different color produce by a different mechanism (see number 3). If feathers are blue on the outside, they would be a paler blue on the inside. If they are orange on the outside, the would be a paler orange on the outside.

3) Normal bird feathers (not albinos) without color appear white because of there structural makeup. If you ground a white feather into powder, it would appear translucent white.

• Orange (yellows and reds) is produced by the pigments called carotenoids. If you ground down an orange feather into powder, it would appear orange.
  
• Blue is not produced by a pigment, but by structural reflective mirror like bits called iridophore. If you ground down a blue feather into powder, it would appear translucent white.
  
• If you had a feather that featured both an orange pigment and the structures for blue, that feather would be a muddy green, brown, or gray depending on the exact mix. If you ground down a feather with both orange and blue bits in it into powder, it would appear orange (the reflected properties of the "mirrors" would not be lined up properly to reflect blue).
  
• To further complicate things, most true blue feathers have iridophores AND the pigment melanin to make the various shades of blue. If you were to add melanin to carotenoids, the orange would turn to browns, dark reds or dark oranges.

Basically, you can have both blue and orange mixed in the same feather without getting some sort of green, brown, or gray.

4) We see colors on bird feather because how light is reflected through the translucent structures of the feather combined- the ranchise, barbs, hooklets, and calumus. Because of this the feather will always be in the same color range on the outside and inside- the only thing that can change on the inside is to show more white (because of structural differences). The outside color will always show through.



If it is your opinion that she should have orange on the inside because this is fantasy or how she has classically appeared, that's fine. Just don't drag nature into this, because nature supports the 4 Horsemen version.

Steph...it's fantasy based on reality. She's a Peregrine Falcon with a tiny bit of a colour swap. I hope these pictures work!











Notice the VERY dark blueish gray feathers on the back and the almost pure-white feathers on the inside? I'm not making this stuff up...it's in the pictures.

[Stickfa]

if the change is made, im happy, if it isnt, im still happy. either way its a great figure.

[Steph]

Steph...it's fantasy based on reality.

I know that. I was only dismissing claim that NATURE backed up the original Sorceresses color pattern. She is clearly a fantasy bird in coloration- nature does not back up your claim that reality backs up her fantasy coloration.

She's a Peregrine Falcon with a tiny bit of a colour swap. Notice the VERY dark blueish gray feathers on the back and the almost pure-white feathers on the inside? I'm not making this stuff up...it's in the pictures.

Yes, those pictures follow the natural rules of how pigment and structural coloration work on birds (and fish, reptiles, and amphibians). For the outer wing, melinin black pigment reflected through the white structure of the feathers, give them an off black look. In your picture, there looks to be a bit of carotenoids mixed to produce some of the brown striping. The blue iridecence you are seeing is provided by the iridophore mirrors. The are pointing outwards, that is why you are not seeing any blue on the underside of the wing.

I already explained how the underside of real bird wings can be lighter or white. The white structure part of the underside of feathers can mute the colors or make them appear pure white.

So yes, are correct in saying real birds can have darker outer wings and lighter under wings. I was not disputing that.

You were saying that nature back up your claim that she could have blue on her outer wings and orange on her inner wings because orange is lighter. That is completely wrong. If you mix "blue" and "orange" together in the same feather, your going to get a shade of brown. There is no blue side or orange side in feathers- only a possible lighter underside provided by the structure of the feather. If you don't believe me, pick up a vertebrate zoology book or Wikipedia it.

All I am saying is stick to the fantasy, preference, and artistic choice portion of your arguments Filmation Sorcerress' and you are fine. Science is not your friend in this argument. You can't claim nature rules on a lady with feathers sticking out of her.

(Honestly, I always thought her wings were a feather cape, not "real" wings, which if that is true, my argument in null and void. she could have different colors feathers sewn on the outside and inside.)

[RavenousPuma]

Keep the SDCC look. Filmation is pretty plain looking.

[Swanmarsh]

If they did that I would go to Toyguru personally and throw a pie in his face. Rather see something better regarding repaints. How about that what was it White or pink colored mini comic version?

I love the new Sorceress, she is perfect as is.

However, if Toyguru was inclined to release the following repaint (or chase) figures, I would be inclined to buy multiples of them all:
- white mini-comic Sorceress
- pink mini-comic Sorceress
- orange wing Sorceress.

I know folk were against chase figures early in the line, but I do sometimes think MOTUC misses the excitement created by chase figures back in 2002.