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Thread: Toyguru Addresses Battleground Evil-Lyn and Sorceress Fan Requests

  1. #1
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Toyguru Addresses Battleground Evil-Lyn and Sorceress Fan Requests

    It's not everyday when Filmation and Mike Young Production fans have something in common regarding their all too different cartoon versions of MOTU characters.

    Hey folks,

    Totally not trying to be snub here, but it seems we go through this each year.

    The figures shown at SDCC are final sculpts. There won't be any changes to them. While we have occasionally been able to make small paint changes (like adding purple to BA Skeletor's feet) any sculpt change is not possible.

    In regard specifically to BG Evil Lyn (who seems to have gotten the lion's share of change requests) let me see if I can clarify.

    We actually costed out a new tunic outfit for her. It was the Horsemen who wanted from a design stand point (I presume to keep the "Classics look") to go with a repaint of the "Teela tunic". I've mentioned before, we don't art direct the Horsemen in this way. Her look is the artistic choice of the Horsemen.

    And for the Sorceress who also has a lot of change requests; her paint scheme was designed by the Horsemen. I asked them and design about this (vs. the more Filmation orange inside color fans are asking about) and they felt strongly that this look worked better for a figure (vs. a drawn cartoon) and are really happy with the way she worked out. This is also the request for a new"Spell casting hand" or to use Catra's hand for Sorceress. She was designed by the Horsemen as is and that is how they and design want to go.

    Hope this helps clarify. While you can't please everyone all the time, I think Terry and the Four Horsemen have done a bang up job on each and every upcoming figure. In particular I can't wait for Fisto and Kahn. Two figures I had as a kid and really enjoyed!

    Scott

    -Oh, and keep sending in those entries for the 2012 contest. We've already received some and we couldn't be more excited!

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
    MegaGearMax's 200X/MYP Screen Grabs

    Sagitar • Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn • 200X Prince Adam • 200X Sorceress
    Sssqueeze • Angella • Perfuma • Evilseed (MYP)

  2. #2
    Heroic Warrior Swanmarsh's Avatar
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    Thanks Max. Appreciate what Scott is saying. I think the 4H are correct with Sorceress' wing colour, it looks much better IMO with the blue tips. I could go either way on the spell casting hand.

    And I think Evil Lyn looks awesome. In fact, I'm loving everything MOTU/POP we saw at SDCC.
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  3. #3
    Powers of Grayskull Lord Snake Hunter's Avatar
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    If all is related to 4H design I can΄t understand why Shadow Weaver have a "spell hand" and Sorcerss dont...
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    sculptor - fantastique JimPansen's Avatar
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    The Horsemen always have a good reason why they do what they do. Would like their thoughts on the Sorceress.
    Maybe it was mor important for them that she can hold the Staff with both hands?
    But why is it to late? Thunderpunch He-Man will also get another hand. Two month are the reason?
    I thought it was just cost cutting from Mattel, hmmm...
    Last edited by JimPansen; July 27, 2011 at 07:34am.

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    BG Evil-lyn doesn't really bother me. It strikes me as close enough, especialy since that the 200X timeline and the Classics Timeline are two entirely different things. If anything it's a good homage.

    I mean lets take a look at the other 200X figures, King Grayskull doesn't even have the right trappings as the 200X Grayskull, Zodak isn't the same as 200X Zodak who's armor was more altered for his classics figure than Evil-Lyn's, you have Whiplash who's body doesn't look right with the 200X head, Man at Arms doesn't come with his 200X weapons and the techno sword he comes with doesn't function like the 200X power-sword and even the weapons pak repaint is lacking in paint apps and features of the original.

    So really that leaves you with two other 200X guys, Keldor and Kronos, and Kronos is only a figure if you recontruct Trap-Jaw. Keldor doesn't have his signiture swords that he appeared in the 200X series with or the proper colored staff, even his cape is incorrect if you look at the 200X series or the Comic-Con exclusive Keldor.

    So really the Lyn figure is still very good, they're going to re-use parts from other figures in the line. So I mean you're not going to get 100% screen accurate reproductions.

  6. #6
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    I will try to translate what happened with BG Evil-Lyn into Filmation terms. It would be like if a lot of fans were clamouring for a Strong-Arm figure and TG said he would come with "quite a few new tools." Everyone is excited. Then, he's released 8 months later and is a full-on Trap-Jaw repaint (in Strong-Arm's colours) with a Strong-Arm head and a different hand attachment or two.

    EDIT: Archon, you should have a look at my post where I explain how Faceless One is wearing the male version of Evil-Lyn's costume:

    http://he-man.org:81/forums/boards/s...&postcount=146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    I will try to translate what happened with BG Evil-Lyn into Filmation terms. It would be like if a lot of fans were clamouring for a Strong-Arm figure and TG said he would come with "quite a few new tools." Everyone is excited. Then, he's released 8 months later and is a full-on Trap-Jaw repaint (in Strong-Arm's colours) with a Strong-Arm head and a different hand attachment or two.

    EDIT: Archon, you should have a look at my post where I explain how Faceless One is wearing the male version of Evil-Lyn's costume:

    http://he-man.org:81/forums/boards/s...&postcount=146

    http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6121/...4bdd64d4_b.jpg
    But all those details would require entirely new molds to make. You can't just shrink down the existing costume to fit it to the female mold.

    Faceless one didn't even have pants in the 200X cartoon, he was depicted wearing a long robe on his lower body.

  8. #8
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archon Devo View Post
    But all those details would require entirely new molds to make. You can't just shrink down the existing costume to fit it to the female mold.

    Faceless one didn't even have pants in the 200X cartoon, he was depicted wearing a long robe on his lower body.
    I'm not asking for them to shrink Faceless One's costume down. That actually CAN be done, there's a sort of resin material that shrinks OR grows...but that's a different topic.

    If they put her on Female Buck 2.0 like all the other new women are, she needed a new top and skirt. The bracelets were only to show so we wouldn't get any of that "hyper anime detail is retired" stuff. I fully expected her to re-use Evil-Lyn 1.0's boots and bracelets. Making the new top and skirt (which Scott said Mattel DID set aside the budget for) would have given Evil-Lyn FOUR new tools (pieces) which is the average for A-list variant figures. Some have more than this (BG Teela has NINE). As of right now, she is as much of a repaint as the Goddess or Zodak were (which we were told would never happen again in MOTUC...especially in subscriptions).
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    Evil Warrior Soulfly's Avatar
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    I don't think I'll ever quite understand how the same group of guys can hit as many home runs as they do, yet swing and miss on certain figures, or certain design elements on certain figures.

    I also understand these guys are good at what they do, no doubt. But when you read things like this, it's obvious someone needs to step in and rein them back in and make the decisions that need to be made, sour grapes or not. If that were actually taking place, maybe there wouldn't have been a need for She-Ra 2.0 so quickly? If a new tooled dress piece was factored in for Evil Lyn, then whoever factored that in for her (TG?) should have made sure that that piece was sculpted for the figure. End of story.

  10. #10
    Heroic Warrior Thrawn29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archon Devo View Post
    I mean lets take a look at the other 200X figures, King Grayskull doesn't even have the right trappings as the 200X Grayskull.
    KG has a uniquely tooled chest harness that He-Man does not share.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archon Devo View Post
    Zodak isn't the same as 200X Zodak who's armor was more altered for his classics figure than Evil-Lyn's,
    Zodak came at a time when the quarterly variants were not part of the sub and had even less of a tooling budget than the regular figures.

    200x Evil Lyn in Toyguru's own words had her dress in the budget. The 4h decided not it include it against fan wishes for reasons that only make sense to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archon Devo View Post
    you have Whiplash who's body doesn't look right with the 200X head,
    I have two Whiplashes. One with each head. The 200x head looks fine to me after you get used to not seeing it correctly proportioned on the normal sized classics body. And I prefer the vintage head myself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Archon Devo View Post
    So really the Lyn figure is still very good, they're going to re-use parts from other figures in the line. So I mean you're not going to get 100% screen accurate reproductions.
    Reusing parts (heads, legs, feet, boots, torsos) is one thing. Reusing the exact same outfit as another character? Especially after they had the budget? Inexcusable.

    It's the equivalent of putting Skeletor in a purple He-Man harness. Or putting She-Ra in Teela's outfit and coloring it differently.

    The more I think about it all the females from here on out should probably just reuse Teela's outfit in different color schemes and be done with it. Just add a cape and different head.

    That way we have consistency.

    I posted this in another thread and I'll repost it here:

    GO BACK AND DO IT AGAIN UNTIL YOU GET IT RIGHT!!
    Last edited by Thrawn29; July 27, 2011 at 08:07am.

  11. #11
    Heroic Warrior Woodland Warrior's Avatar
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    Fair play ToyGuru for addressing peoples concerns and questions.
    I, for one, accept the reasons and am happy with the figures.
    However, as he says you can't please everyone.
    Neutral Forest Spirit

  12. #12
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    THere's two sides to every story, and we're getting only one side here. THe Horsemen do not have complete and total free reign; they've stated themselves many times that they work within the well known "re-use or DIE!" dogma Mattel has in place. Time and again they've said they have to constantly keep in mind re-use as they sculpt the figures. There are Mattel instituted restrictions on new tooling, again as we've been told many, MANY times (almost ad nauseum). So the decisions made by the Horsemen are made within the likely strict parameters of what Mattel will allow for tooling. TG isn't saying anything here that isn't technically true, but he is somewhat passing the buck based on things he himself has said in the past. They may well defer to the Horsemen and the design team (which I have no problems with, given the usually stellar results in the figures we get), but the decisions of those two groups are heavily influenced, even controlled, by the restrictions set down by Mattel and the budget they provide.
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    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    I think it was a Mattel cost cutting decision, but the 4H are made to take the blame. The 4H aren't going to come out and say otherwise while being employed by Mattel.

    Battleground Evil-Lyn doesn't even have a NEW Teela Leotard where it's the same design, but now she can swivel her waist, so I don't think it was a design decision, it was a cost decision.

    A new Teela leotard with a waist twist would have been reused multiple times in refreshing original Teela, original Evil-Lyn and The Goddess, maybe Illumina too.

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
    MegaGearMax's 200X/MYP Screen Grabs

    Sagitar • Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn • 200X Prince Adam • 200X Sorceress
    Sssqueeze • Angella • Perfuma • Evilseed (MYP)

  14. #14
    #1 Extendar Fan! JonWes's Avatar
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    In any case, we have what we have.

    We could speculate and theorize until the cows come home. I believe him when he says the 4H wanted this. He's not going to jeopardize Mattel's relationship with 4H by outright lying, is he? It's not as if 4H are infallible, but maybe we could, oh... respect their artistic decisions since they are the very foundation of the line we (presumably) love? Even if we disagree with them?

    And everyone should remember, just because the decision is one that YOU PERSONALLY do not care for, it doesn't mean your thoughts reflect ALL OF FANDOM or that they did something "wrong."

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    Never saw the problem to begin with, these figures are just beautiful IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    In any case, we have what we have.

    We could speculate and theorize until the cows come home. I believe him when he says the 4H wanted this. He's not going to jeopardize Mattel's relationship with 4H by outright lying, is he? It's not as if 4H are infallible, but maybe we could, oh... respect their artistic decisions since they are the very foundation of the line we (presumably) love? Even if we disagree with them?

    And everyone should remember, just because the decision is one that YOU PERSONALLY do not care for, it doesn't mean your thoughts reflect ALL OF FANDOM or that they did something "wrong."
    Yeah, let's not assume Scott is lying just because you don't like the figure or their choices for colors, costume, et. al.. At the end of the day, no one is holding guns to our heads and forcing us to buy figures or subscriptions. Don't like, then don't buy it or sell it once it arrives. Mattel is under no obligation to give us entirely new sculpted parts on any figure, and, in fact, we knew from the get go that parts reuse would be heavy with this line.
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    Heroic Warrior Tundra_Torque's Avatar
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    I was amazed when I saw both of these figures. At first, I was lukewarm about BG Evil Lyn, but after seeing her with her white hair, I was sold. The Sorceress looks awesome, too. I can't wait to have both figures!

  18. #18
    Heroic King Of Zumba mk476's Avatar
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    I really like Battleground Evil-Lyn, but I do think the time and money spent on her cape could have been used toward creating the actual "dress." Having said that I have no doubt that at some point we will see another Evil-Lyn variant in her 200X dress (and probably using the 2.0 female body.) It is a beautiful figure, but she still has so much more potential.

    Sorceress looks perfect to me. I love the blue on the inside of the wings.
    Last edited by mk476; July 27, 2011 at 08:46am. Reason: added Sorceress comment

  19. #19
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWes View Post
    In any case, we have what we have.

    We could speculate and theorize until the cows come home. I believe him when he says the 4H wanted this. He's not going to jeopardize Mattel's relationship with 4H by outright lying, is he?
    Relationship? Wes, the 4H are Mattel employees getting Mattel checks. Not equal partners. Whatever Mattel wants them to sculpt, they sculpt.

    It's not as if 4H are infallible, but maybe we could, oh... respect their artistic decisions since they are the very foundation of the line we (presumably) love? Even if we disagree with them?
    It's an artistic decision to use an outdated buck? That excuse could be credible if the Teela leotard had a new swivel waist, instead of making the 200X leotard, but they reused an old buck that does not have a swivel waist.

    That's a cost cutting decision, not an artistic decision.

    And everyone should remember, just because the decision is one that YOU PERSONALLY do not care for, it doesn't mean your thoughts reflect ALL OF FANDOM or that they did something "wrong."
    Plenty of people don't like this decision, just as there are plenty of fans who do--that's why this is controversial.

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
    MegaGearMax's 200X/MYP Screen Grabs

    Sagitar • Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn • 200X Prince Adam • 200X Sorceress
    Sssqueeze • Angella • Perfuma • Evilseed (MYP)

  20. #20
    Heroic Warrior RocketPunch's Avatar
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    I can sort of see why they went this route. The vintage colours Evil-Lyn staction had the same outfit as 200X Evil-Lyn (only repainted), so I guess it makes sense that both of her Classics figures share the same sculpt too.

  21. #21
    Heroic King Of Zumba mk476's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketPunch View Post
    I can sort of see why they went this route. The vintage colours Evil-Lyn staction had the same outfit as 200X Evil-Lyn (only repainted), so I guess it makes sense that both of her Classics figures share the same sculpt too.
    Those stactions were both beautiful, and I hope at some point if/when we get the 200X dress we'll see both versions of Evil-Lyn wearing it. That would be a great Power-Con / ORG exclusive - original colors Evil-Lyn in the 200X dress. Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

  22. #22
    Heroic Warrior He-Man123's Avatar
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    Hey, I love these figures, too. I buy as many as I can, finances allowing.

    But "Controversies"? Over toys? Wow.
    "I SHALL WARN YOU BUT ONCE, EVIL ONE--SPEAK TO ME THE TRUTH 'ERE MY BATTLE AXE FINDS A PLACE TO REST 'TWIXT YOUR FOWL EYES!" -He-Man.

  23. #23
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    I honestly don't get the hate, the Evil-Lyn is amazing new dress or not.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

    Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

  24. #24
    HeroicUniter PrinceAdam101's Avatar
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    I agree with Scott on this issue. The 200X EL variant should be requested in addition to the Battleground figure. Demanding changes on figures inproduction is a nearly fruitless effort. My all time most wanted figure is Queen Marlena, and while I saw things to not like about the figure, I chose to view the glass as half full. Particular is one thing, picky is another...
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  25. #25
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Man123 View Post
    Hey, I love these figures, too. I buy as many as I can, finances allowing.

    But "Controversies"? Over toys? Wow.
    Person A has problems with a figure.
    Person B has no problem with that figure.
    When they meet in the same forum, it's a controversy, it's an argument or a debate waiting to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceAdam101 View Post
    I agree with Scott on this issue. The 200X EL variant should be requested in addition to the Battleground figure. Demanding changes on figures inproduction is a nearly fruitless effort. My all time most wanted figure is Queen Marlena, and while I saw things to not like about the figure, I chose to view the glass as half full. Particular is one thing, picky is another...
    It's not being picky. I think people misunderstand.

    The fans wanted 200X Evil-Lyn in particular because she doesn't wear the Teela leotard. That's the whole point of asking for that particular figure.™

    And we aren't trying to get her changed. We know that isn't happening. What can happen is Toyguru saying that they could revisit Battleground Evil-Lyn sometime down the line with the desired change. I think that would be acceptable to the fans who never wanted another Teela leotard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    I honestly don't get the hate, the Evil-Lyn is amazing new dress or not.
    It's not hate. Battleground Evil-Lyn IS wonderful save her Teela torso, which this variant wasn't supposed to have.
    Last edited by MegaGearMax; July 27, 2011 at 09:41am.

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
    MegaGearMax's 200X/MYP Screen Grabs

    Sagitar • Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn • 200X Prince Adam • 200X Sorceress
    Sssqueeze • Angella • Perfuma • Evilseed (MYP)

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