Mattel Talks Battleground Evil-Lyn: The Inspiration Behind The Design

[RocketPunch]

TG lied to us and told us this Evil-Lyn would have her 2000x dress and THIS Evil-Lyn was never in the vintage line we got that Evil-Lyn already

I wouldn't necessarily say that he lied about it, just that he was in the wrong. Toyguru is not responsible for sculpting the figures, and regardless of what he said ultimately the figures' look is entirely up to the Four Horsemen.

Filmation Evil-Lyn had a unique dress too, but if Mattel had made a cartoon coloured Evil-Lyn back in the 80s I bet she would have been a simple repaint with a fabric cape. As would 200X Evil-Lyn, had she existed back then.

I assume that's why they chose to "Classicize" 200X EL in this way.

[Mern-Ra]

Because it looks like a joke.

I could not possibly disagree more.

King Hsss is one of my favorite motu characters and that completely disappointed me. It's awful.

I am genuinely sorry about that--it's never fun to be disappointed by a figure of a character you're a big fan of and have really been looking forward to, and I know we've all been there--for example, you and I are totally on the same page when it comes to BG Evil-Lyn! SO excited for her and she is SO close to being perfect! (Even if we're not on the same page as to how she ended up the way she did.)

It has very skinny snake arms that do not at all look powerful. Then it has even less snakes than the vintage figure from 20 years ago!! How does that work?

After all the slavish devotion to getting Clawfu'ls muppet eyebrows, and Evil Lyn in Teela's dress, at the very least Eric Treadway should have given King Hsss as many snakes as he had in the 80s. But he has less.

Do you understand that? I'm not trying to be mean when I ask that. This is a case where you have a modern figure that is actually less than the already minimal 80s figure.

There was no excuse for that. Especially artistically. Treadway seems to not understand the character.

The concept behind King Hsss is a roiling mass of powerful snakes. The 80s figure had six. Just enough to get away with with.

The 200x version sacrificed numbers - down to five - but gave it size and power. You had five snake arms and heads all thick and sinuous.

200x King Hsss looked powerful and intimidating, more so than Hordak and Skeletor even.

The motuc version is a joke. The 4H modelled that version on the 80s one but took away a snake which goes against the very concept of the figure.

The 4H clearly didn't know what they were doing with that figure.

Again, that's your opinion, and here's mine:

I do understand about Classics Hiss having less snakes than the original, and I get that you're not trying to be mean, and IN THEORY I think all Classics stuff should be better updates of vintage stuff, but I think this was one time when they went against the vintage design for a better result (like they should have done with Clawful and Snout Spout) because I think that teeny-tiny 6th snake just looks freaking silly, and makes Hiss as a whole come across as way less intimidating. It's like "Oh no, look at all those big and threatening snakes! I should run buuuuuut look at that little baby snakie! He's so cute and wittle and adowable I don't feel threatened by anything having to do with that little guy!"

And yeah the arms are skinny, but if they made them much thicker I don't know if he'd be able to stand. Maybe he could still stand if they made them thicker and shorter, but then they'd be closer to the first two awful Hiss toys; everyone, including myself and Eric Treadway, understands that the concept behind him is a rolling mass of powerful snakes, but the thing is that in toy form it's never been anything more than a concept; NONE of his figures have ever had a rolling mass of powerful snakes--not even close! The first two toy versions were just silly and not AT ALL threatening, due to the restrictions of the disguise. The first two figures were like "Ok, I'm gonna snake bite you, but first we gotta get close enough to hug!" The Classics version looks like he's gonna come out and get you, no matter how far you try to run.

you calling ME A LIAR!? lol kidding!
i think it's in this thread or the pro 2000x one. i just remember Pixel Dan talking about how happy they seemed with it and how he did not think we would get a 2000x one seeing as how this was her in there eyes

Interesting....I'll have to check that out. But I'd still argue that it was them saying "This is 200X EL in Mattel's eyes, not ours."

the truth? no i really don't think they do they NEVER post on there forum unless it's time to sell something *but they post a lot on the 3A forum* and just look at the track record
fan's wanted
Fisto's fist to pop off = nop
toy look for Star Sisters = nop
2000x Evil-Lyn = nop
King Hiss snake to look like art = nop
2000x MAA = nop
Sorceress to have open hand = nop

but thats just me BGEL killed any and all the love i had for the 4H

Well, some of those I don't have a problem with and some I think weren't their fault, but everyone's entitled to their opinion. (Sorry, if that sounded condescending, I promise I really didn't mean for it to!)

[Thrawn29]

I could not possibly disagree more.

It's okay. We all have our personal preferences. Some are very disappointed by Leech but I think he's about as perfect as he can be. He's about everything I wanted. I'm thrilled with that figure.

Same with Whiplash and Grizzlor.

I am genuinely sorry about that--it's never fun to be disappointed by a figure of a character you're a big fan of and have really been looking forward to, and I know we've all been there

Thank you, but there's no need to apologize. It is what it is.

I think this was one time when they went against the vintage design for a better result (like they should have done with Clawful and Snout Spout) because I think that teeny-tiny 6th snake just looks freaking silly, and makes Hiss as a whole come across as way less intimidating. It's like "Oh no, look at all those big and threatening snakes! I should run buuuuuut look at that little baby snakie! He's so cute and wittle and adowable I don't feel threatened by anything having to do with that little guy!"

The answer is you sculpt it so that it looks appropriate.

That design choice was a problem. Fan opinion is pretty evenly split on the snake torso, I'd even say it's slightly more negative than positive.

That means you screwed up.

My first reaction on seeing the King Hsss reveal and realizing it was a totall vintage toy update was to count the snakes. I immediately noticed the missing snake within two seconds.

It mattered to a lot of King Hsss fans. The first words out of my mouth were literally "What the hell is this? Is that it? That's a joke. It's pathetic looking."

Eric Treadway screwed up. He knows it too. That's why he took responsibility for it on the Roast Gooble and stated he had seen the pages and pages of criticisms.

And yeah the arms are skinny, but if they made them much thicker I don't know if he'd be able to stand. Maybe he could still stand if they made them thicker and shorter, but then they'd be closer to the first two awful Hiss toys;

Since big and powerful was not the way the design went with motuc Hsss, they should have added two or three more snake arms.

You add to the underlying concept of the figure, not subtract from it. That was the correct answer.

everyone, including myself and Eric Treadway, understands that the concept behind him is a rolling mass of powerful snakes,

He does not or he wouldn't have subtracted snakes from the already minimal design.

He even said by the time the snake men came out, he was no longer collecting the line. He had moved on. He has no connection to the snakemen or later figures.

It shows in the final product or he wouldn't have thought he could take liberties with the snake torso and churn out something so minimal.

NONE of his figures have ever had a rolling mass of powerful snakes--not even close! The first two toy versions were just silly and not AT ALL threatening, due to the restrictions of the disguise.

My point exactly. The previous two toys were limited by the material and the format at the time. The Classics version was not, yet it's less than both previous versions in one way or another.

The Classics version looks like he's gonna come out and get you, no matter how far you try to run.

Not even close. The only thing, and I mean the only thing that saves the motuc snake torso is that when put up next to Hordak and Skeletor is does have a slight height advantage so that it does looks slightly intimidating against the other figures. But only just.

Other than that it's a complete failure to me as a die-hard King Hsss fan.

And I'll reiterate, I love the human form. It's great except for the reversed shoulders. I prefer 200x King Hsss, but I also love the vintage design.

[KUZEH]

Holy cow, some of the replies in this thread are mind-boggling...
So much violence and hatred due to a toy!!!

[Thrawn29]

So much violence and hatred due to a toy!!!

Could you point out examples of said violence? I'm reasonably sure no one has threatened anyone with physical violence or wished anything bad to befall anyone personally.

[Dark Sorceress]

Holy cow, some of the replies in this thread are mind-boggling...
So much violence and hatred due to a toy!!!

hatred ok but violence? where?

[Uki]

So, I guess I'm lucky-I think it's all great. Clawful's head: Super. Leech: Awesome. Hssss: Excellent. Grizzlor: Who needs a second face? Buzz-Off: Bravo! Snout Spout: just showed up and I love him!!! I haven't even opened him yet! Battleground EL: Wonderful! Spector: Yes, please!!!

Uki=Happy Camper

[phantom1592]

fan's wanted

Fisto's fist to pop off = nop
toy look for Star Sisters = nop
2000x Evil-Lyn = nop
King Hiss snake to look like art = nop
2000x MAA = nop
Sorceress to have open hand = nop

but thats just me BGEL killed any and all the love i had for the 4H

To be fair.... Not ALL fans wanted these. I'm not even sure MOST fans wanted this.

Fisto's fist popping off?? I never heard or saw any requests for that before it was announced they hadn't thought of it. I saw some people who wanted 2-3 different interchangable fists... but obviously they chose not to go THAT route... and felt the fist coming off was pointless. Honestly, i can't disagree with that decisions... with the two swords... two heads... and whatever else he has going for him. Popping his hand off never occured to me.

It may have been a nice addition... but the lack of it doesn't make this awesoem toy a 'fail' in any way.


Toy look for Star sisters... Again. They haven't done 'TOY LOOK' for ANY of the PoP figures yet... I'm a little surprised they didn't go straight 'Filmation' for them like they did the rest... but at least the SS's weren't some homemade combination of medias.... they picked ONE form of media and went with it.... It wasn't the most FAVORITE media.... but it was certainly a Legitimate decision.

Sorceress to have an open hand?!?!: I wholeheartedly did NOT want that. As did many others. Hands are meant for holding things... They gave her the staff (which I never liked to begin with...) so she MUST be able to hold it...

Also in standard 'bird-pose' having one fist and one palm would look silly.


King Hiss I have no particular opinion on... and I agree with BGEL being a big ball of fail.

Personally i have no interest in a 200x EL. I look at her 200x costume and her classic costume and see the same thing. All the design features are the same, so a 'classicized' 200x... probably WOULD look like BGEL.

That said, there isn't a POINT to BGEL. There isn't enough difference for me to care about buying her... and if there is ANOTHER one coming sometime in the future... I have even LESS intererest in buying THIS one.

I personally hate ALL varients anyway... so I'd have prefered if this one hadn't been made. I don't see EL as important enough to deserve THREE spots on the varient train... so why not just combine 200x and BG and call it a day.

[chuc98]

So, I guess I'm lucky-I think it's all great. Clawful's head: Super. Leech: Awesome. Hssss: Excellent. Grizzlor: Who needs a second face? Buzz-Off: Bravo! Snout Spout: just showed up and I love him!!! I haven't even opened him yet! Battleground EL: Wonderful! Spector: Yes, please!!!

Uki=Happy Camper

I'm in that camp with you…let's make smores!

[Mern-Ra]

My point exactly. The previous two toys were limited by the material and the format at the time. The Classics version was not, yet it's less than both previous versions in one way or another.

Oh, man, see, I was willing to hang in there with ya until this comment. Seriously, you think the Classics version is LESS than the first two?! Yes, I am painfully aware that if you count them there is one less snake on the Classics version, but man, that's a pretty tiny (literally when you consider the snake we're talking about) technicality. Artistically, objectively, I don't see how one could look at these figures side by side and deem the Classics one less...but apparently one can, and this is all objective, so no one is right or wrong; this issue is not quite as black and white as I think you think it is because while I probably wouldn't have complained if there were more snakes on the Classics version (as long as they weren't tiny), I still look at it and I see one kick a$$ toy that I think is awesome.

That's about all I can say on this, so I'd be happy to get this thread back on topic and onto a subject that you and I agree on: it sucks that BG Evil-Lyn is so close to being the 200X awesomeness that we've been begging for!

[Thrawn29]

Seriously, you think the Classics version is LESS than the first two?!

Obviously the classics version is the best snake torso to date, but that's not saying much.

It is less than the two previous in a couple ways.

1. It has less snakes than the vintage. Inexcusable. Even if it wasn't the one around the neck, there was the Earl Norem poster for reference.

There was simply no excuse for the number of snakes we got when the material and the fan requests were there.

2. The 200x toy had articulated mouths on the arms. I like that. I'm not really a fan of the bendy arms. I'd have preferred articulated arms.

I also thought the snake coils wrapped around the main snake was a nice idea.

On every point the classics version lacks any innovation. It's simply less than the 80s version in concept.

Yes, I am painfully aware that if you count them there is one less snake on the Classics version, but man, that's a pretty tiny (literally when you consider the snake we're talking about) technicality.

Not when the 80s figures itself was already so minimal and then you go less than that. Something else to keep in mind, I'm the one buying these figures. Not the 4H or Mattel. As a consumer and a subscriber I say they failed.

Again, look at all the King Hsss threads and polls. There is a lot of dissatisfaction with the classics snake torso.

It's at least half and half. As stated previously, the outcry was so loud, Eric Treadway himself noted it.

I'd say that makes it a bit more than a mere technicality.

Artistically, objectively, I don't see how one could look at these figures side by side and deem the Classics one less...but apparently one can, and this is all objective, so no one is right or wrong;

You'd be mostly correct if you said subjective, in my opinion. I'd also argue that you aren't as big a King Hsss fan as I am. I fell in love with the character instantly way back when I was a small child. I know what would have made me happy as a fan, and this screwed up on every account. But again, as you stated it's all personal preference.

I still look at it and I see one kick a$$ toy that I think is awesome.

It's better than the 200x snake torso. I'll give it that. But again, that's not saying much. The 200x toy is pretty sorry.

it sucks that BG Evil-Lyn is so close to being the 200X awesomeness that we've been begging for!

Don't I know it. Of the four figures I've wanted most from this line - Whiplash, Leech, King Hsss, and 200x Evil Lyn - Whiplash and Leech are perfect, the human half of King Hsss which is great has reversed shoulders and a joke of a snake torso, and Evil Lyn has been reduced to a lazy cheap Teela repaint twice.

Two out of four isn't good enough for me. Not when it was so easy to fix both figures.

[Mern-Ra]

Again, look at all the King Hsss threads and polls. There is a lot of dissatisfaction with the classics snake torso.

It's at least half and half. As stated previously, the outcry was so loud, Eric Treadway himself noted it.

Yeah, I know...I actually think I'm in the minority for liking the snake torso.

You'd be mostly correct if you said subjective, in my opinion.

GAH! You're totally right--that's what my dumba$$ meant to say. I knew I should have eaten lunch before I responded!

I'd also argue that you aren't as big a King Hsss fan as I am.

It does indeed sound like this is the case.

Don't I know it....and Evil Lyn has been reduced to a lazy cheap Teela repaint twice.

Two out of four isn't good enough for me. Not when it was so easy to fix both figures.

Quick question because I haven't read all of your posts due to their length (I admire your passion but I just didn't have the time!) but obviously I've read enough to know you feel the same way I do about her. But how would you have felt if she still had the old buck but had gotten the 200X dress? Personally I would have been perfectly happy with that since I don't pose my figures that much, even though it IS weird that the 2.0 female buck is/was ready before/at the same time of BG Lyn's release. And to me that's what makes her an even more tragic figure (ha!), the fact that she was just ONE piece away from awesomeness! What say you?

[Thrawn29]

GAH! You're totally right--that's what my dumba$$ meant to say. I knew I should have eaten lunch before I responded!

I thought that was a typo but I wasn't 100% sure. It's okay, I've done that before too.

Quick question because I haven't read all of your posts due to their length (I admire your passion but I just didn't have the time!)

I enjoy the discussion as well as the back and forth.

But how would you have felt if she still had the old buck but had gotten the 200X dress?

I think I'd have been fine with it. The old female buck worked pretty good for Teela, Evil Lyn, and Catra.

I particularly like the leg articulation on it.

I will probably end up liking the new buck better once I have my BP She-Ras in hand, but the female 1.0 buck was not bad by any means.

Plus, with Evil Lyn, she's not a warrior like Teela or She-Ra so even though the added articulation is nice and I want it, it isn't completely necessary for Evil Lyn.

I just can't stand the fact that she's reduced to a repaint for the second time. She deserves more than that, and so do I as a paying customer.

[Mern-Ra]

I just can't stand the fact that she's reduced to a repaint for the second time. She deserves more than that, and so do I as a paying customer.

Amen, brother! AMEN!

[Dark Sorceress]

Amen, brother! AMEN!

i will give a AMEN to that!