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Thread: Toyguru Mattycollector.com MOTUC News Thread October 2011

  1. #301
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    The Filmation Catra is her most iconic look. How was it done wrong?

  2. #302
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    I think I've been pretty straight-forward with my feedback, but if it needs repeating...

    I would like some of the behind-the-scenes folks working on this line to stop treating POP toy fans like they don't exist.

    The 4H would never insinuate that something from the world of MOTU is 'inconsistent' / 'doesn't fit in with the rest of the line' once said item was put through the classics machine. I don't appreciate professionals in the industry (Mattel employees included) referencing the outfits on the original POP figures and throwing the word "doll" around in a way that's meant to explain away their inclusion in the Masters of the Universe Classics, nor do I appreciate the constant need to defend Filmation/Style Guide choices.

    The fact is that we were told on several occasions that toy-based POP designs were going to be a big part of this line, and even after it was discovered that Mattel could do style-guide/Filmation versions all along, they continued to keep hope alive in fans by confirming that toy versions of secondary characters had a real chance of appearing in this line.

    That the Filmation/Style Guide versions are generally more popular is a moot point. That cheap excuse needs to end.

    Folks need to take responsibility for what happened with the Star Sisters, rather than (no-doubt) having a "most fans are okay with it" attitude. Evaluate your past comments/precedents and you'll see that the fans who are being disregarded as "a vocal few" actually have a point. If a mistake happened, it shouldn't matter if 10 people or 100 are complaining. Own up to it and make changes. And do more research in the future.

    Moreover, while errors are also made on MOTU figures, from my point-of-view, in general, Mattel/The 4H are faster to respond to issues relating to characters from that era/world and show more willingness to correct issues. Show that same respect to folks who are bigger fans of the POP toy versions.

  3. #303
    Ghost In The Machine Staff Of Ka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    I think I've been pretty straight-forward with my feedback, but if it needs repeating...

    I would like some of the behind-the-scenes folks working on this line to stop treating POP toy fans like they don't exist.

    The 4H would never insinuate that something from the world of MOTU is 'inconsistent' / 'doesn't fit in with the rest of the line' once said item was put through the classics machine. I don't appreciate professionals in the industry (Mattel employees included) referencing the outfits on the original POP figures and throwing the word "doll" around in a way that's meant to explain away their inclusion in the Masters of the Universe Classics, nor do I appreciate the constant need to defend Filmation/Style Guide choices.

    The fact is that we were told on several occasions that toy-based POP designs were going to be a big part of this line, and even after it was discovered that Mattel could do style-guide/Filmation versions all along, they continued to keep hope alive in fans by confirming that toy versions of secondary characters had a real chance of appearing in this line.

    That the Filmation/Style Guide versions are generally more popular is a moot point. That cheap excuse needs to end.

    Folks need to take responsibility for what happened with the Star Sisters, rather than (no-doubt) having a "most fans are okay with it" attitude. Evaluate your past comments/precedents and you'll see that the fans who are being disregarded as "a vocal few" actually have a point. If a mistake happened, it shouldn't matter if 10 people or 100 are complaining. Own up to it and make changes. And do more research in the future.

    Moreover, while errors are also made on MOTU figures, from my point-of-view, in general, Mattel/The 4H are faster to respond to issues relating characters from that era/world and show more willingness to correct issues. Show that same respect to folks who are bigger fans of the POP toy versions.
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  4. #304
    Heroic Warrior fireball13z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    I think I've been pretty straight-forward with my feedback, but if it needs repeating...

    I would like some of the behind-the-scenes folks working on this line to stop treating POP toy fans like they don't exist.

    The 4H would never insinuate that something from the world of MOTU is 'inconsistent' / 'doesn't fit in with the rest of the line' once said item was put through the classics machine. I don't appreciate professionals in the industry (Mattel employees included) referencing the outfits on the original POP figures and throwing the word "doll" around in a way that's meant to explain away their inclusion in the Masters of the Universe Classics, nor do I appreciate the constant need to defend Filmation/Style Guide choices.

    The fact is that we were told on several occasions that toy-based POP designs were going to be a big part of this line, and even after it was discovered that Mattel could do style-guide/Filmation versions all along, they continued to keep hope alive in fans by confirming that toy versions of secondary characters had a real chance of appearing in this line.

    That the Filmation/Style Guide versions are generally more popular is a moot point. That cheap excuse needs to end.

    Folks need to take responsibility for what happened with the Star Sisters, rather than (no-doubt) having a "most fans are okay with it" attitude. Evaluate your past comments/precedents and you'll see that the fans who are being disregarded as "a vocal few" actually have a point. If a mistake happened, it shouldn't matter if 10 people or 100 are complaining. Own up to it and make changes. And do more research in the future.

    Moreover, while errors are also made on MOTU figures, from my point-of-view, in general, Mattel/The 4H are faster to respond to issues relating to characters from that era/world and show more willingness to correct issues. Show that same respect to folks who are bigger fans of the POP toy versions.
    I am not saying its right, but I think Mattel/TG/4HM are more worried about getting us non pop fans to like or at least be ok with POP figures than making the figures the POP fans want.

    For me personally, the Half/half design would work better for me, but I cant hate on the POP fans for wanting their fav part of the MOTU world to be done the way they would like them to be.
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  5. #305
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    I think I've been pretty straight-forward with my feedback, but if it needs repeating...

    I would like some of the behind-the-scenes folks working on this line to stop treating POP toy fans like they don't exist.

    The 4H would never insinuate that something from the world of MOTU is 'inconsistent' / 'doesn't fit in with the rest of the line' once said item was put through the classics machine. I don't appreciate professionals in the industry (Mattel employees included) referencing the outfits on the original POP figures and throwing the word "doll" around in a way that's meant to explain away their inclusion in the Masters of the Universe Classics, nor do I appreciate the constant need to defend Filmation/Style Guide choices.

    The fact is that we were told on several occasions that toy-based POP designs were going to be a big part of this line, and even after it was discovered that Mattel could do style-guide/Filmation versions all along, they continued to keep hope alive in fans by confirming that toy versions of secondary characters had a real chance of appearing in this line.
    And with all due respect, no other aspect of MOTU was from a girls fashion doll line.

    The real problem here is that in many respects figures based on the vintage POP figures/dolls will likely be a tough sell to much of the MOTUC fan-base no matter how well those looks are adapted. Franky I think the biggest selling point for Bubble Power She-Ra is the ability to kit-bash her with the first She-Ra release. Had the initial She-Ra figure been done more like the 2.0 body, there's a good chance that BP She-Ra never would have happened in this line.

    As for what was said in the past, it has been quite a while since they have made any specific comments about putting out POP toy designs (unless I missed a recent statement). Plans change. They aren't going to stick with a certain plan if it's not the best way to guarantee more sales and maximize profits just because they don't want to contradict a previous statement.

    So I can't blame them for changing their plans. I don't blame you for not being happy about it, but it is what it is.

    I do wish they would be less cryptic with their current responses. If they have little to no plans to ever make figures based on the vintage POP toys (even if it's just not part of their "current plans"), they should just come out and say that straight forward, rather than beating around the bush and giving these round-about answers about the MOTUC style, what does or doesn't fit with it, etc.



    That the Filmation/Style Guide versions are generally more popular is a moot point. That cheap excuse needs to end.
    It's not moot at all. It's very much the heart of the issue.

    Generally speaking, the vintage POP toy designs are probably a tough sell to most of the fan base.... more so than obscure variants like BG Teela or Sisterhood-Of-The-Traveling-Convention-Pants Sorceress.

    It doesn't make sense for Mattel to produce a figure that will likely sell poorly just because the small handful of fans who are asking for it "really, really, REALLY want it!"

    That's the problem here. You are allowing your emotions to completely overtake logic. Not that no one else has ever done that around here, mind you, but you do seem to often take it to a further extreme than most, with all due respect.

    You seem to think that just because of the degree of how "die hard" certain fans are about these designs should somehow trump basic, simple business logic. Yeah, you want the POP toy designs really badly. Most people don't. They probably won't move very quickly if at all.

    Heck, look at how long Hurriance Hordak sat around. While the vac-metal armor issues may have contributed to that, I think the bigger reason for the less than stellar sales was that he just wasn't a variant that a lot of people just didn't want or need. And I frankly honestly can't see vintage POP toy variants being a bigger seller than Hurricane Hordak. Mattel is likely reevaluating how to handle future variants to some extent or another after how he sold.


    Folks need to take responsibility for what happened with the Star Sisters, rather than (no-doubt) having a "most fans are okay with it" attitude. Evaluate your past comments/precedents and you'll see that the fans who are being disregarded as "a vocal few" actually have a point. If a mistake happened, it shouldn't matter if 10 people or 100 are complaining. Own up to it and make changes. And do more research in the future.

    Moreover, while errors are also made on MOTU figures, from my point-of-view, in general, Mattel/The 4H are faster to respond to issues relating to characters from that era/world and show more willingness to correct issues. Show that same respect to folks who are bigger fans of the POP toy versions
    As I have said in the past, in the particular case of the Star Sisters, yes, to an extent it would have made sense to base them on the toy designs given their general obscurity overall.

    Still, a reasonable argument could be made for the more cartoon based look that they have now since they actually did appear in the cartoon series, while the planned vintage figures for them never came to fruition.

    But regardless, it is what it is. And it's not the first time a design hasn't gone over as well as planned/hoped. Look at many of the reactions to Clawful and Buzz-Off... or even King Hsss's snake form for that matter (or his human form's reversed shoulders). As of now, there aren't any changes coming to rectify these problems, and there's not likely to be changes any time soon if ever. I think you are overstating the occasions on which changes did happen. There's only been a couple or so of them like with Mossman's ears and making the inner hood black for the Faceless One. And those were small changes to one or two little details. Completely changing the color schemes of 3 whole figures might be a much taller order than they are able to do anything about.

    While I don't blame you for being disapointed in the toy designs not being used for the Star Sisters, it's still a pretty big deal that they are coming out, and all together in a set. That fact alone is pretty impressive and shows that Mattel is listening to some of the vocal minorities out there.
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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    And with all due respect, no other aspect of MOTU was from a girls fashion doll line.

    The real problem here is that in many respects figures based on the vintage POP figures/dolls will likely be a tough sell to much of the MOTUC fan-base no matter how well those looks are adapted. Franky I think the biggest selling point for Bubble Power She-Ra is the ability to kit-bash her with the first She-Ra release. Had the initial She-Ra figure been done more like the 2.0 body, there's a good chance that BP She-Ra never would have happened in this line.

    As for what was said in the past, it has been quite a while since they have made any specific comments about putting out POP toy designs (unless I missed a recent statement). Plans change. They aren't going to stick with a certain plan if it's not the best way to guarantee more sales and maximize profits just because they don't want to contradict a previous statement.

    So I can't blame them for changing their plans. I don't blame you for not being happy about it, but it is what it is.

    I do wish they would be less cryptic with their current responses. If they have little to no plans to ever make figures based on the vintage POP toys (even if it's just not part of their "current plans"), they should just come out and say that straight forward, rather than beating around the bush and giving these round-about answers about the MOTUC style, what does or doesn't fit with it, etc.





    It's not moot at all. It's very much the heart of the issue.

    Generally speaking, the vintage POP toy designs are probably a tough sell to most of the fan base.... more so than obscure variants like BG Teela or Sisterhood-Of-The-Traveling-Convention-Pants Sorceress.

    It doesn't make sense for Mattel to produce a figure that will likely sell poorly just because the small handful of fans who are asking for it "really, really, REALLY want it!"

    That's the problem here. You are allowing your emotions to completely overtake logic. Not that no one else has ever done that around here, mind you, but you do seem to often take it to a further extreme than most, with all due respect.

    You seem to think that just because of the degree of how "die hard" certain fans are about these designs should somehow trump basic, simple business logic. Yeah, you want the POP toy designs really badly. Most people don't. They probably won't move very quickly if at all.

    Heck, look at how long Hurriance Hordak sat around. While the vac-metal armor issues may have contributed to that, I think the bigger reason for the less than stellar sales was that he just wasn't a variant that a lot of people just didn't want or need. And I frankly honestly can't see vintage POP toy variants being a bigger seller than Hurricane Hordak. Mattel is likely reevaluating how to handle future variants to some extent or another after how he sold.




    As I have said in the past, in the particular case of the Star Sisters, yes, to an extent it would have made sense to base them on the toy designs given their general obscurity overall.

    Still, a reasonable argument could be made for the more cartoon based look that they have now since they actually did appear in the cartoon series, while the planned vintage figures for them never came to fruition.

    But regardless, it is what it is. And it's not the first time a design hasn't gone over as well as planned/hoped. Look at many of the reactions to Clawful and Buzz-Off... or even King Hsss's snake form for that matter (or his human form's reversed shoulders). As of now, there aren't any changes coming to rectify these problems, and there's not likely to be changes any time soon if ever. I think you are overstating the occasions on which changes did happen. There's only been a couple or so of them like with Mossman's ears and making the inner hood black for the Faceless One. And those were small changes to one or two little details. Completely changing the color schemes of 3 whole figures might be a much taller order than they are able to do anything about.

    While I don't blame you for being disapointed in the toy designs not being used for the Star Sisters, it's still a pretty big deal that they are coming out, and all together in a set. That fact alone is pretty impressive and shows that Mattel is listening to some of the vocal minorities out there.
    You, sir, are exactly right.
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  7. #307
    Ghost In The Machine Staff Of Ka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fball13z View Post
    I am not saying its right, but I think Mattel/TG/4HM are more worried about getting us non pop fans to like or at least be ok with POP figures than making the figures the POP fans want.
    I agree Totally, but Its ironic that with POP they are downplaying the details, whereas with NA they are turning the design knob all the way up.

    Quote Originally Posted by fball13z View Post
    For me personally, the Half/half design would work better for me.
    Speaking for myself...Thats all I want too!

    Half/Half or Hybrid design has worked amazingly well with BP She Ra. I love the Vintage Figures and I own them all -Well except Spinnerella natch- and I look at them for what they are- Detailed Figures!

    TG's recent comments regarding the BP she ra being the POP template in MOTUC going forward really makes me happy, as does the News That Lady Angora submitted her amazing collection for Mattel to examine properly.

    Im not 100% happy with the Sisters, closer to 60% but thats because of the 'art' they were based on. They should have been based on the Vintage Protos, just as He-Ro was.

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  8. #308
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    It's not moot at all. It's very much the heart of the issue.

    Generally speaking, the vintage POP toy designs are probably a tough sell to most of the fan base.... more so than obscure variants like BG Teela or Sisterhood-Of-The-Traveling-Convention-Pants Sorceress.

    It doesn't make sense for Mattel to produce a figure that will likely sell poorly just because the small handful of fans who are asking for it "really, really, REALLY want it!"
    Well, for almost 2 years they were willing to making ALL POP figures based on the original toy designs, so they must have thought they would sell well enough. And really, there's no evidence that they wouldn't. Have they tested a pure toy design yet on a secondary character? I would imagine that most POP and MOTU fans would pick them, even if they're not the preferred version to those collectors.

    But really, the subscription is supposed to quell any fears Mattel may have. Will some MOTU fans complain? Sure. But they do that anyway. Life goes on and the line will survive and Mattel can always go back and do another version of a character. It's not like the toy fans are asking for 10 of them at once.

    That's the problem here. You are allowing your emotions to completely overtake logic. Not that no one else has ever done that around here, mind you, but you do seem to often take it to a further extreme than most, with all due respect.
    As I've said many times before, they've kept the hope alive for almost 3 years. This wasn't a random one-off comment. They need to take responsibility.

    I think my previous comment stated that they show more willingness to resolve issues for MOTU fans. It doesn't somehow lessen my argument, just because some of those 'promises' haven't yet been realized. And it's not like they keep going back on forth on something like the King Hssss issue like they do with toy-based POP. (and Illumina...but that's a totally separate issue) I see no reason why they wouldn't revisit King Hssss, Evil-Lyn etc.
    Last edited by Tallstar; October 13, 2011 at 10:28am.

  9. #309
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    Well, for almost 2 years they were willing to making ALL POP figures based on the original toy designs, so they must have thought they would sell well enough. And really, there's no evidence that they wouldn't. Have they tested a pure toy design yet on a secondary character? I would imagine that most POP and MOTU fans would pick them, even if they're not the preferred version to those collectors.

    But really, the subscription is supposed to quell any fears Mattel may have. Will some MOTU fans complain? Sure. But they do that anyway. Life goes on and the line will survive and Mattel can always go back and do another version of a character. It's not like the toy fans are asking for 10 of them at once.
    They said that early on largely because they thought that they didn't have the rights to make them look like the cartoon designs. Then the style guide turned out to be enough of a legal precident for them to do so. And how that the actually have the Filmations rights, there's nothing holding them back.

    The Filmation designs are simply much more popular. While fans do complain, Mattel is still in the business of trying to please the majority of the fan base where possible and applicable. Sure, they may take chances on coming out with obscure characters based on old unused concepts or that only had one or two minor appearances (i.e. Vikor, the Star Sisters), but when they still try to give each character the most iconic look, especially for the more well known characters, and they seem to be treading carefully and lightly with variants.

    And if enough people get upset over things like POP vintage toy variants, it may just hinder future subscription sales even further.
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    Heroic Warrior fireball13z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staff Of Ka View Post
    I agree Totally, but Its ironic that with POP they are downplaying the details, whereas with NA they are turning the design knob all the way up.
    This is a very good point, they do seem to give more "love" to the redesigns of NA figures vs POP, at least from the point of a hardcore POP fan. I am very happy with the POP we are getting, but I wasnt a pop fan before MOTUC
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  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    Never getting any Toy designed PoP (or even hybrid)...I really don't know if I will continue to collect the line. I'm not trying to be a "diva" or anything about it. I just really don't know. (
    How can you say this when Bow and Bubble Power She-Ra TOTALLY qualify as hybrids??? WTH???
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  12. #312
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    They said that early on largely because they thought that they didn't have the rights to make them look like the cartoon designs. Then the style guide turned out to be enough of a legal precident for them to do so. And how that the actually have the Filmations rights, there's nothing holding them back.

    The Filmation designs are simply much more popular. While fans do complain, Mattel is still in the business of trying to please the majority of the fan base where possible and applicable. Sure, they may take chances on coming out with obscure characters based on old unused concepts or that only had one or two minor appearances (i.e. Vikor, the Star Sisters), but when they still try to give each character the most iconic look, especially for the more well known characters, and they seem to be treading carefully and lightly with variants.

    And if enough people get upset over things like POP vintage toy variants, it may just hinder future subscription sales even further.
    Fans shouldn't be blamed for holding Mattel to their word. Doesn't matter why they said it. They still kept the hope alive all these years. Even within the last few months.

    Again, Star Sisters were always the exception to the rule. And they would have known that had they researched in the way that they claim to do for every figure.

    The argument about which versions are more popular was out the window long ago. Toy-based POP has tons more history behind it than many of the characters we've been getting, and I imagine they would sell better than many of them as well.

    It's not as if obscure concept characters like Vikor are a minor part of this line. Mattel has been very eager to take risks.

  13. #313
    Heroic Warrior fireball13z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    How can you say this when Bow and Bubble Power She-Ra TOTALLY qualify as hybrids??? WTH???
    ^^^this. We are already getting hybrids now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    How can you say this when Bow and Bubble Power She-Ra TOTALLY qualify as hybrids??? WTH???
    Awaits Darkspectors thesis on the boots and parts for Bow
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Awaits Darkspectors thesis on the boots and parts for Bow
    It's *STILL* a hybrid, because it takes elements from the Style Guide, the vintage figure, and NA He-Man and HYBRIDIZES them into one figure. Just because the throw in another source to the mix doesn't mean it's not a hybrid. And BP She-Ra is still a hybrid too.

    Do I wish Bow had the boots the Style Guide and Action Figure both had? Hell-To-The-Yes!!! But that doesn't disqualify his status as a hybrid.
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    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    How can you say this when Bow and Bubble Power She-Ra TOTALLY qualify as hybrids??? WTH???
    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Awaits Darkspectors thesis on the boots and parts for Bow
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    It's *STILL* a hybrid, because it takes elements from the Style Guide, the vintage figure, and NA He-Man and HYBRIDIZES them into one figure. Just because the throw in another source to the mix doesn't mean it's not a hybrid. And BP She-Ra is still a hybrid too.

    Do I wish Bow had the boots the Style Guide and Action Figure both had? Hell-To-The-Yes!!! But that doesn't disqualify his status as a hybrid.
    First, I have to say MOTUC Bow shouldn't touch NA He-Man's boots and bracelets with a 10 foot poll. Here's my main reasoning why (as an example). If you look at the basic He-Man figure, that's He-Man. Now, take off his head and armour and put on Bow's head and armour and Mattel released that as Bow. Both figures are painted the exact same colours, same parts, etc. That's not right. That's basically what happened with Bow. NA He-Man = blue pants, same bracelets and boots in the same colour, same bare arms/chest with armour on top. NA He-Man will now basically Bow with new accessories, which is very lame and disappointing (in my opinion). The boots and bracelets would have made him different enough to separate the characters (in my opinion).

    In my eyes, I do not see Bow as a Toy PoP/Filmation hybrid.

    Toy Details

    - Bracelets (colour or style)? = no
    - Boots? = no
    - Belt? = no
    - Chainmaille armour? = no
    - Light brown hair? = no
    - Clip-on Knight armour? = no
    - Circular crown/tiara? = no

    Those are all the basic designs/pieces from Toy Bow. MOTUC Bow is Filmation with a new/stylized/200Xified crown/tiara and NA He-Man's boots and bracelets. Bow has added detail to his shoulder pads which is the pattern on the silver foil of the female PoP figures. That's cool, but wasn't a part of Bow.

    Besides Bow's bow (I don't count accessories), the ONLY Toy influence MOTUC Bow has is the "sun" on his Filmation-style chest armour. That was from the clip-on Knight armour Bow didn't get.

    That's why, to me, Bow is not a Toy PoP/Filmation hybrid. Hybrids, to me, are a blending of both elements into one figure. MOTUC Bow doesn't really have anything significant from 80's Bow. I'm not saying MOTUC Bow is a terrible figure or anything like that at all. I do like him, but I would have at least liked to see Toy bracelets and boots (and maybe the clip-on armour).

    Bubble Power She-Ra is a hybrid figure and I absolutely love her. I meant FUTURE PoP figures. She-Ra 1.0, Catra, the Star Sisters (3 figures) are all Filmation (Star Sisters magazine). The Star Sisters came after Bubble Power She-Ra and the 4H said they "went too far" with Bow...whatever that means, so I'm not very hopeful for Toy PoP or Toy PoP/Filmation hybrids in the future. Especially when everyone who really wanted the Star Sisters figures made their preference for the toy design and colours known and the magazine and Filmation versions were openly mocked/joked about because of their unsightly colour scheme by at least 5 different people (and Mattel did not have the rights to Filmation OR the magazine at the time the Star Sisters were made, Classic Media did...so they HAD to be Toy colours/design). Let's not go over that again though.

    Bow is more Filmation + new design
    BP She-Ra is a hybrid
    5 others are pure Filmation, essentially

    Three of those characters are the NEWEST PoP MOTUC figures. Hybrids don't seem to be on the schedule because the only real hybrid (again, in my opinion) is a variant. I absolutely LOVE BP She-Ra, but I would love to see an actual non-variant PoP be a Toy PoP/Filmation hybrid (with no NA mixed in, or new "invented" details) OR a full on Toy design OR a figure we can make either Filmation OR Toy design (two outfits in one, sort of liek Queen Marlena...but with two piece outfits).
    Last edited by Darkspecter; October 13, 2011 at 02:48pm.
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  17. #317
    Oracle of Fabulousity Kevenn's Avatar
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    So you don't consider it a hybrid because it doesn't have what you think should be "enough" of the elements of the toy. Sorry, but it's still a hybrid, it's just not done the way you like.
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  18. #318
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    So you don't consider it a hybrid because it doesn't have what you think should be "enough" of the elements of the toy. Sorry, but it's still a hybrid, it's just not done the way you like.
    Not counting the Bow's bow, he really only has one element from the toy (the sun burst). So, if that sunburst was sculpted on Chief Carnivus' chest, would he be a Toy PoP/MOTU hybrid?

    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    The Filmation Catra is her most iconic look. How was it done wrong?
    The way all figures in MOTUC have been released = toy/cardback first, variant or cartoon look later. Catra and She-Ra went the opposite direction from the entire rest of the MOTUC line. Filmation Catra is a HUGE want (and she is awesome and I love her), but her being released first contradicts everything about the line. It should have been Toy Catra first (also called barbaric Catra, feral Catra, etc.) and then Filmation would have been an A-list variant later on.
    Last edited by Darkspecter; October 13, 2011 at 03:01pm.
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  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by fball13z View Post
    This is a very good point, they do seem to give more "love" to the redesigns of NA figures vs POP, at least from the point of a hardcore POP fan. I am very happy with the POP we are getting, but I wasnt a pop fan before MOTUC
    Really?! Have you seen Bow? He is one of the most detailed and well-received figures in the line. With NA they re-use a LOT of pieces, with Optikk getting Trap Jaw parts, and Slush-Head getting Whiplash and Icarius parts. Bow got NA He-Man's boots, and fans threw a fit.

    Icarius look great, and Catra by comparison looks simplistic. I get that and agree. But let's not paint with broad strokes. They are finding their groove with each new release.

  20. #320
    Heroic Warrior fireball13z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun-Yor View Post
    Really?! Have you seen Bow? He is one of the most detailed and well-received figures in the line. With NA they re-use a LOT of pieces, with Optikk getting Trap Jaw parts, and Slush-Head getting Whiplash and Icarius parts. Bow got NA He-Man's boots, and fans threw a fit.

    Icarius look great, and Catra by comparison looks simplistic. I get that and agree. But let's not paint with broad strokes. They are finding their groove with each new release.
    Never said I didnt like Bow or thought he was done poorly, I said over all the NA seem to be getting more "upgrades" to their looks.
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    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Now that I have more time to comment...

    Most MOTU fans know damn well they wouldn't put up with Mattel dismissing entire segments of the property (unique mini-comic characters, concepts etc.) without having tested a character from each one in the line first. (and it wouldn't be the end of it either if they failed)

    Yet, for some folks, it's completely fine if Mattel doesn't bother to give toy line POP characters a whirl because somehow that's 'a sound business decision.' Yeah...right. I'm sorry, but we don't just dismiss an entire segment of the property without having tested anything. Some of you act like the original POP toy line made 5 dollars. And nevermind that there are tons of folks who have been buying the original toys on eBay for well over a decade. I'm sure they would do better than many of the characters we've been getting.

    I prefer my consistent approach to dealing with Mattel. I keep it simple. The employees make a bunch of promises, establish precedents and I merely hold them to it. Emotions are not clouding my judgment.

  22. #322
    Heroic Master of Maturity SCB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    Not counting the Bow's bow, he really only has one element from the toy (the sun burst). So, if that sunburst was sculpted on Chief Carnivus' chest, would he be a Toy PoP/MOTU hybrid?



    The way all figures in MOTUC have been released = toy/cardback first, variant or cartoon look later. Catra and She-Ra went the opposite direction from the entire rest of the MOTUC line. Filmation Catra is a HUGE want (and she is awesome and I love her), but her being released first contradicts everything about the line. It should have been Toy Catra first (also called barbaric Catra, feral Catra, etc.) and then Filmation would have been an A-list variant later on.
    They went the opposite direction because the Filmation looks for POP are easier to blend into MOTUC. They have different rules because they had different rules in the 80's. You couldn't put the two lines next to each other back then.

  23. #323
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    They went the opposite direction because the Filmation looks for POP are easier to blend into MOTUC.
    That's not really true (especially with Toy Catra). Toy Catra has a furry loin cloth like 90% of the male MOTU figures. She TOTALLY looks 80's MOTU. Filmation Catra doesn't really. I LOVE both designs, this is just my opinion.

    Many people were disappointed with Filmation She-Ra (for various reasons), but a big one was that the Filmation designs look too plain and She-Ra, Adora, Catra, etc. look like they are from two separate lines when placed beside characters like Teela, who have lots of detail. Toy PoP fits in perfectly when everything is translated to plastic (hair, clothes, etc.).

    They have different rules because they had different rules in the 80's. You couldn't put the two lines next to each other back then.
    I disagree.

    Scareglow, King Randor, Ninjor, Prince Adam and Laser Light Skeletor = cloth clothing

    Megator, Tytus, Battle Blade Skeletor (the only figures with LONG hair) = rooted hair

    Panthor, Moss Man = flocked (like Clawdeen)

    Grizzlor = furry (like Catra's loincloth...and Vikor's cape most likely would have been if he were released in the 80's).

    The 80's PoP figures fit right in, for me. *shrugs*

    The vast majority of female action figures up until the mid 90's had rooted hair and capes were also mainly cloth. The way PoP was made fit right in line with the rest. The material skirts were really the only difference, but allowed for better articulation (sitting, for example).

    I would love to see a 100% toy PoP design in MOTUC to see how well it sold or was praised. Look at NA. It's hated by a lot of people (unfortunately) and they say the toys suck, look ugly, etc. They have been given a chance in MOTUC and most people are shocked at how awesome they are! Those are the SAME toy designs just being applied to a MOTUC buck. I really think the same would happen with PoP. Some people who love the details on Bubble Power She-Ra's bracelets and boots think that's a new design or from 200X She-Ra. They don't know it came from the original, 1980's toy. I strongly believe people are blinded by the rooted hair and cloth outfits and cannot see the DESIGN.
    Last edited by Darkspecter; October 13, 2011 at 03:43pm.
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  24. #324
    Heroic Warrior Slave2Evil_Lyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanmyth View Post
    Have to jump in just in case someone with decision powers at Mattel is reading. In regards to the Peakablue comparison above, I like EVERYTHING about the FILMATION design better. (and I had the toy as a kid and never saw the Filmation design until I started buying MOTUC figures and came to He-Man.Org because we didn't have cable growing up and the only She-Ra I saw animated was Secret of the Sword at the theatre and I still like the Filmation design better)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    I will be devastated if Peekablue looks 100% like the cartoon. The Peekablue figure is one of the main reasons I fell in love with PoP and MOTU. Her design is so intricate and fascinating to me (still, after all these years). PoP is the main reason why I support MOTUC. If my favourite corner of the universe and if it is never going to get made (toy design or at LEAST hybrid designs like that Peekablue mock-up I made) I might stop collecting the line altogether. I mean, what's the point if the stuff you want the MOST will never get made? It's not like I can sculpt all the missing details on myself! If I wanted Filmation and didn't like the details though...it would be easy to break out the sand paper and paints.
    Quote Originally Posted by bamf1980 View Post
    And *I* have to jump in and say that I JUST WANT PEEKABLUE!
    Bam1980 is 100% correct its all about the character, just be happy they if they get made. Everyone has a look they like better but that does not affect the character. If you only like the design or the costume they wear then you're not a fan of the character so move on. Peekablue or Frosta or whoever are still great characters even if they are wearing a potato sack. My favorite comic character is Wonder Woman and she has has MANY looks over the years, some I like and some I don't but I still love the character so I don't care what she wears. I'll buy her merch even if its in a look I don't like. We can all hope for our favorite look but we need to come together and just hope that we get all the great characters that MOTU and POP have to offer.

    To all the posts about Mattel saying the Toys would be the focus of POP, he also said this.

    One note on the POP characters in general is that for MOTUC we are treating them as action figures, not dolls. So when we look at the vintage POP toys (which were dolls) we try to imagine how the POP girls would have looked had they been done instead as female action figures in the MOTU vintage line (like Teela or Sorceress etc...) and update them into Classics figures (rather then update the dolls).

    It makes perfect sense if we look at from a logical stand point and not an emotional one (its hard I know I tend to let my emotion run amuck). Both NA and POP have to be formatted into MOTUC "the classics machine" or whatever TG calls is. But first they have to be formatted through the vintage MOTU machine. NA figures had very different bodies then MOTU so they have to be first translated into what that character would have looked like if he was in the vintage MOTU line (shared parts and all) then he would need to be updated for MOTUC in the "classics machine." The same is ture of POP, they need to be MOTU vintagized, meaning they would have looked like Teela and Evil Lyn then made into the classics formate. Thais is exactly what we've been getting.

    Ask yourself the following:
    What would (insert POP character here) have looked like if she had been made in the original MOTU line instead of Teela?

    I want everyone to be happy with MOTUC, I know that will never happen as we all have our own ideas and tastes. We really need to come together and just support the characters not their clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCB View Post
    They went the opposite direction because the Filmation looks for POP are easier to blend into MOTUC. They have different rules because they had different rules in the 80's. You couldn't put the two lines next to each other back then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    I disagree.

    Scareglow, King Randor, Ninjor, Prince Adam and Laser Light Skeletor = cloth clothing

    Megator, Tytus, Battle Blade Skeletor (the only figures with LONG hair) = rooted hair

    Panthor, Moss Man = flocked (like Clawdeen)

    Grizzlor = furry (like Catra's loincloth...and Vikor's cape most likely would have been if he were released in the 80's).

    The 80's PoP figures fit right in, for me. *shrugs*
    I think SCB was talking the scale of the figures more then the cloth. Teela and She-ra looked nothing alike even if you removed all the cloth. They were totally different style of figures just like NA was.
    Last edited by Slave2Evil_Lyn; October 13, 2011 at 03:46pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  25. #325
    Heroic Warrior urbanmyth's Avatar
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    So tell me, how would you describe the Character of Peakblue then? Since I've only seen a few minutes if her in a cartoon and don't even remember her mini comic, if I take away her visual, she is nothing to me. . . so maybe I don't like the character. . . even if I'd LOVE to have a toy of her.

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