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Thread: I voted for Illumina!

  1. #101
    Ray of Sunshine Lookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AximusPrime View Post
    I think everyone would like to know that story. However, I will maintain my stance until then based on the fact that (A) everyone has a right to an opinion and since everyone likes to jump to conclusions based on whatever information is available, no matter how little it is, and (B) everyone loves using Gygor as a crutch about why Illumina should get made when they are completely different concepts.
    Some of us here do know the story and all that existed of Gygor where some CONCEPT pictures. No prototype found. The reason it DID get made is so that Mattel could reuse the Shadow Beast buck. While it came out second, it WAS the first intent for the buck.

    Quote Originally Posted by AximusPrime View Post
    In MYP, Dekker was established Duncan's teacher as he was the previous Man-At-Arms with Duncan as his successor. While I am not opposed to Duncan having multiple teachers, I just don't see why he needs another, especially if it is one that at one point was a proponent of Anti-Eterninan sentiments and it is unclear if she was involved in ruining Miro's union with Keldor's mother. So she at one point she was Anti-Eternian, but the Royal Guard said, "what the hell, let's bring her aboard!"
    I am seeing a lot of assumptions. You may want to stop that.

    Quote Originally Posted by AximusPrime View Post
    The Vikor and Demo-Man concepts were different proposed characters than the characters we got in Classics.
    How can you say that since they were never characters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sallah View Post
    Wow dude... really? Did you basically just say that your story is going to be better than theirs?

    Sorry... but for the most part the bios haven't made anything "cooler".

    Sallah
    I love the part about making Illumina "cooler". I don't think any of the bios have made anything cooler. If anything, the bios are the WORST thing about this line.
    Last edited by Lookie; December 9, 2011 at 10:15am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jubilation View Post
    I hope you will be giving us Glimmer and Frosta in 2012 then since they have had very high demand for years.
    Yes, please!!!!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookie View Post
    That's like blaming the world for all your problems.
    Men who crave power look back on the mistakes of their lives, pile them all together and call it... destiny

    Quote Originally Posted by Lookie View Post
    I don't think any of the bios have made anything cooler. If anything, the bios are the WORST thing about this line.
    Seconded !!!
    Last edited by Crusader; December 9, 2011 at 10:17am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  4. #104
    He-Man.org Forum Admin TheShadow's Avatar
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    I think it was nice of Scott to come in and try to clarify some things. I personally thought the Illumina stuff was starting to get a bit out of hand.

    I think if Illumina had appeared in more than just an advertisement for the comic book, she'd have a better shot overall in the eyes of Mattel. That way some of her story would have already been incorporated in to print instead of just sitting in a bible that was not submitted to Mattel until after the comic book license was over.

    In all reality, her back-story changing is not really something that carries a lot of impact since it wasn't something that was well-known in general. It isn't on the same level as other things that have been changed in MOTUC with more well known characters. Remember, this is MOTUC, a new mythos. And, IIRC, a lot of us do not really like the bios anyway and basically ignore them or just read them for kicks and giggles.

    I think the issues/problems/etc the community is having more-so lies with the fact that the creators of the character are also very closely tied to the dedicated core fan-base of MOTU/POP. I don't think we should take changes with Illumina as a dig or spite against us as fans or Emiliano and Val as creators. I think it would be great if we do get Illumina, something this poll could make possible. Something that seemed completely impossible previously. I guess I look at it as a glass half full situation. At the end of the day, we could get an Illumina!

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  5. #105
    Heroic Warrior Beastmaster's Avatar
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    I like illumina for her look: the fantasy-style really fits in with the line. Not because of who created her (no offense Emiliano, because you know you did a great job!)

    I do appreciate Scott clarifying Illumina-gate! thanks TG!

    Everything comes to he who waits...

  6. #106
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beastmaster View Post
    Everything comes to he who waits...
    "A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked."

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  7. #107
    Heroic Warrior DJ Force's Avatar
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    Here are my thoughts about why Illuminas bio might have been removed:

    It has been stated numerous times now that Illumia, with her light-based powers (and I still wonder what EXACT powers these might be - is she able to glow in the dark? Can she shoot balls of light? What CAN she do with those mysterious powers?), has ties to several well known and established MOTU characters. From what info is AVAIBALE, it seems like Illumina was a pretty heavy hitter and rather important to several characters and the MVC storyline. We cannot judge what was intended for her, as there is no additional info available and we canīt read minds.

    Now, the trainer of Man-At-Arms is supposed to be Dekker. While of course he could have easily had more than one trainer, I cannot think of anything a female Gar with light based powers could have trained a Man-At-Arms, that his mentor Dekker couldnīt have taught him. Duncan isnīt capable of using magic, so even training him in light-based powers seems not to be making too much sense. Which renders this part of Illuminas rough backstory somehow obsolete.
    If I understood that right, she knows and shared her knowledge of Castle Grayskull with Duncan. But since Duncan raised the Sorceressī (cloned) daughter, I find it safe to assume the Sorceress told Duncan a lot about the importance of Grayskull. Again, there is no real need for Illumina here.
    I could go on with this, based on the little paragraphs we KNOW about Illumina, and I could be massivly wrong. But only the creators know how exactly Illumina was intended to blend into the grand scheme.

    Now, the other participants in the poll are background characters or "creatures of the week", as someone put it. They donīt have a strong connection to either of the MOTU characters or the whole MOTU lore. They arenīt essential to certain previously established events. They are a slave girl. A hunter. A Tug-of-War-participant. Warriors who pop up and are defeated in the same moment (or at least in the same minicomic/episode of media they appear in). They are random and generic.

    A backstory for those characters can easily be made up, using each and every bit of info available. And with available I mean available to Joe everybody, who doesnīt frequent any message board, but might have watched the cartoon, read the minicomics or seen an advert (and honestly, I still cannot see what info is written in their bios that isnīt taken of their media-appearance, but from the intended background). And those bios can easily be worked into the MOTUC canon, without contradicting previously established events.

    Illumina, a fully fleshed out character, is much more difficult to be worked into the current MOTUC canon, because it might easily contradict established events. So her bio HAS to be rewritten, at least to a certain extend. Even very well known characters like Teela or Fisto had to suffer from this! ;-)
    Until now, nobody knows how much her bio would have to be rewritten, if she won the poll in July 2012. It could be what Val and Emil had in mind for her. It could be something totally different. I read in this very thread that someone envisioned Illumina to be Keldors mom (which Emil didnīt like at all, I think). She could be anything, and I have enough faith that whatever she will become in MOTUC canon will fit her coolness. But until the decission has been made, nothing is set in stone and therefore - as Scott stated - it is obvious to me that for legal issues the poll descriptions may only include what is visible.

    See, all the other descriptions can be tweaked or even worked into MOTUC canon without tweaking. Illumina couldnīt. So the description had to be removed.

    At least this is how I explain it to myself. Everybody is entitled to their own oppinion, but this scenario made most sense to me.
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  8. #108
    Heroic Weather Oddity Raining Light's Avatar
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    You say there was no story/bio.
    Yet you asked them to take down the one they posted up.
    That doesn't make sense.

    Still no comment on Swiftwinds issues.
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  9. #109
    Heroic Warrior DJ Force's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raining Light View Post
    You say there was no story/bio.
    Yet you asked them to take down the one they posted up.
    That doesn't make sense.
    There are two worlds. The world of the online community and the outside world. The online community is part of the whole family of MOTU fans, but it seems that the outside world is MUCH bigger. The outside world doesnīt know about Illuminas bio, because it was never seen in the outside world. So there was no bio.

    Still no comment on Swiftwinds issues.
    Sorry, but he DID comment on Swiftwind in the previous page. Keep reading the bios
    Positivity, folks!
    Letīs all agree to love MOTU enough to let others love MOTU, too!

  10. #110
    Heroic Photog Supporter musclor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post

    Anyway, thank you for claryfing that if released, Illumina won't be Illumina
    Really? A tiny blob of text on the back of her card is going to change who she is? I'm sorry, but as this fiasco continues, toy guru is becoming less and less the villain everyone is making him out to be.

    All of this is making me wish I had put illumina at the bottom of my vote instead of camo khan. (for the record, she was third behind garn and geldor)

    Think of it this way, Emiliano. At least if she's made, Mattel only has your art to go by. It's not like she'll end up being based off of some motu magazine poster art that ruins her aesthetics....
    Photog is here! thank you, Mattel!

    Now how about some mini-comics love (like Lodar, Geldor, Dakon......)? And Mermista?

  11. #111
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Force View Post
    There are two worlds. The world of the online community and the outside world. The online community is part of the whole family of MOTU fans, but it seems that the outside world is MUCH bigger. The outside world doesnīt know about Illuminas bio, because it was never seen in the outside world. So there was no bio.
    Sorry DJ, but really, the fact that many haven't seen something doesn't make something non-existing
    I'm sure the majority of the people in the world haven't seen Sicily.
    And the majority of the people in the world is a MUCH larger number than the people leaving in Sicily. But Sicily still exists, no one could say there was no Sicily
    That, or I'm leaving in an immaginary town.
    (I'm kidding of course, your post just called for a funny reply and I couldn't resist )

  12. #112
    Eternian Pimp PIMPS ADAM's Avatar
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    Hey Toyfans,

    Due to the overwhelming disrespect of my authority and lack of cooperation. (Wait for it....) I'm pulling the plug on the line!!!!! Go customize your own @#*%ing figures !!!

    Thank you,
    Scott
    “You don't stop playing because you grow old you grow old because you stop playing.” George Benard Shaw.

  13. #113
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musclor View Post
    Really? A tiny blob of text on the back of her card is going to change who she is?
    Hum, yes, of course it changes it.
    Does that really matters to many? Abolsutely no, I have no big issues with that either

    Think of it this way, Emiliano. At least if she's made, Mattel only has your art to go by. It's not like she'll end up being based off of some motu magazine poster art that ruins her aesthetics....
    I guess that's to tell me you dislike me because of the Star Sister?

  14. #114
    Heroic Warrior DJ Force's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    Sorry DJ, but really, the fact that many haven't seen something doesn't make something non-existing
    I'm sure the majority of the people in the world haven't seen Sicily.
    And the majority of the people in the world is a MUCH larger number than the people leaving in Sicily. But Sicily still exists, no one could say there was no Sicily
    That, or I'm leaving in an immaginary town.
    (I'm kidding of course, your post just called for a funny reply and I couldn't resist )
    ROFL
    Fair enough!
    Positivity, folks!
    Letīs all agree to love MOTU enough to let others love MOTU, too!

  15. #115
    Heroic Photog Supporter musclor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    Hum, yes, of course it change it.
    Does that really matters to many? Abolsutely no, I have no big issues with that either


    ----fair enough. It sounded like you did. I pay little attention to the bios, personally. The characters are much more than the bios.

    I guess that's to tell me you dislike me because of the Star Sister?
    I have nothing against you personally at all. Just pointing out that Scott isn't the only one who makes decisions for this toyline that leave a lot of fans unhappy.
    Photog is here! thank you, Mattel!

    Now how about some mini-comics love (like Lodar, Geldor, Dakon......)? And Mermista?

  16. #116
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musclor View Post
    I have nothing against you personally at all. Just pointing out that Scott isn't the only one who makes decisions for this toyline that leave a lot of fans unhappy.
    Well that needs a correction for a lot of very important reasons, most of all to not get anyone in trouble:
    I don't take any decision for this toyline.
    I'm not affiliated or working for Mattel, I have NO power on MOTUC.
    When asked for information or suggestions, I provided them. But in now way I got to decide on ANYTHING for the toyline.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    They are completely different concepts.
    But, what we questioned is the "how risky" they would be that was discussed about in the other thread.
    Aside from his tie with the vintage line, was Gygor less risky then Illumina?
    That's a fair argument, the only reasoning I can think of as to why Gygor was approved to be made was to bolster the number of Beasts in this line as opposed to the hesitancy to include Illumina right away being she would take a slot from a character that may sell better. I am not in Mattel's upper management, so I can only speculate.


    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    You are right, but again, that isn't the story I had in mind, and you don't have the full picture, but it isn't your fault.
    The Guardians of Grayskull were not supposed to be "defenders" meaning that would have the same role of He-Man.
    Their only purpose was to maintain the secrets all aorund Eternia, and keep the powers (kings etc.) unaware of Grayskull while waiting for He-Man to come. I don't really want to go into details, but the story you pictured isn't what I had in mind (the Royal guards had nothing to do with that for example)
    I appreciate the clarification, but to be fair when someone is referred to as a guardian of something it's pretty easy to assume their job is to defend it. Besides, other than defending Castle Grayskull itself, how does one actively make people forget about something?


    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    Vikor and Demo Man have never been proposed characters.
    They were concept exploration for the main hero and the main villain in the proposed male action figure line in 1980. Two of a few, not just the only ones either
    I must assume responsibilty for this as I worded it badly. Yes, they were not proposed characters in the sense that they had bios and storylines in place. They were conceptual sketches that eventually evolved into something else. However, my point is simply that while the Vikor and Demo-man sketches were initially intended to be the main hero and villain of the line, those designs ultimately became characters who no longer play the exact same role they were initially intended to be. While this is not the best example of the point I was trying to make, the Illumnia design can still be included with an altered backstory. Whether the new backstory is any better or worse than what was originally intended is something completely different.

  18. #118
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AximusPrime View Post
    I would agree except for the fact that I referred to MOTUC as vintage-centric, not vintage exclusive. Carnivus and The Faceless One are characters that appeared at least two to three times on a television show on a national cable channel that aired in a primetime slot. In my opinion, that's an easier sell than a proposed character for a comic book that had a smaller audience.
    Battleground Teela and Goddess were limited to one comic book issue each and they were even harder sells than Carnivus and Faceless One.

    MOTUC specializes in obscurity.

    I think everyone would like to know that story. However, I will maintain my stance until then based on the fact that (A) everyone has a right to an opinion and since everyone likes to jump to conclusions based on whatever information is available, no matter how little it is, and (B) everyone loves using Gygor as a crutch about why Illumina should get made when they are completely different concepts.
    No one knew about Gygor's existence. He was revealed to the public a few months before we saw a figure, while Illumina is known to the fandom from her one page ad since 2003 or 2004. That's why he's going to keep coming up.

    While I'm sure the story that could have been told would have been compelling, the reason I look down at these concepts is because both Filmation and MYP established that the Sorceress guarded Grayskull from within and when there was an evil that she herself could not deal with alone, He-Man would come into play. To have a sect of Grayskull Guardians come out of nowhere and we are to just accept that they have been there all along diminishes from what was already established.
    That's MYP. How about MOTUC canon? We've got little bits and pieces of the story, so it can be included.

    Also, Man-At-Arms' knowledge of Grayskull comes from his interactions with the Sorceress due to the fact that he was chosen to raise Teela, the Sorceress' daughter as his own. In MYP, Dekker was established Duncan's teacher as he was the previous Man-At-Arms with Duncan as his successor. While I am not opposed to Duncan having multiple teachers, I just don't see why he needs another, especially if it is one that at one point was a proponent of Anti-Eterninan sentiments and it is unclear if she was involved in ruining Miro's union with Keldor's mother. So she at one point she was Anti-Eternian, but the Royal Guard said, "what the hell, let's bring her aboard!"
    Unless Toyguru decides that Dekker is MAA's only teacher, Duncan does have multiple teachers throughout the series. Since we have Filmation Rights, now we can include Rohad with MYP's Dekker and MVC's Illumina.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    Anyway, thank you for claryfing that if released, Illumina won't be Illumina
    Well...there is always IN MY CANON™.

    Quote Originally Posted by AximusPrime View Post
    I appreciate the clarification, but to be fair when someone is referred to as a guardian of something it's pretty easy to assume their job is to defend it. Besides, other than defending Castle Grayskull itself, how does one actively make people forget about something?
    From what Emiliano just explained, they aren't. The Guardians hide Grayskull's existence from people who would attempt to use it's power for their own ends. This could mean hiding maps, books, scrolls, etc that mention Grayskull's existence.
    Last edited by MegaGearMax; December 9, 2011 at 11:23am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookie View Post
    Some of us here do know the story and all that existed of Gygor where some CONCEPT pictures. No prototype found. The reason it DID get made is so that Mattel could reuse the Shadow Beast buck. While it came out second, it WAS the first intent for the buck.


    I have no argument as to what you say about the Gygor buck originally being intended for the Shadow Beast, but like I said in another post I made, Gygor may have been an easier sell as he was a beast and took up a beast slot vs Illumina taking up figure slot that upper management felt another figure would sell more. Again, I am not Mattel uppermanagent so I can only assume.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lookie View Post
    I am seeing a lot of assumptions. You may want to stop that.
    I see many people making many assumptions all the time on these boards. They won't stop and neither will I.




    Quote Originally Posted by Lookie View Post
    How can you say that since they were never characters?
    I am going to repost what I said in another post about the same thing:
    Quote Originally Posted by AximusPrime
    I must assume responsibilty for this as I worded it badly. Yes, they were not proposed characters in the sense that they had bios and storylines in place. They were conceptual sketches that eventually evolved into something else. However, my point is simply that while the Vikor and Demo-man sketches were initially intended to be the main hero and villain of the line, those designs ultimately became characters who no longer play the exact same role they were initially intended to be. While this is not the best example of the point I was trying to make, the Illumnia design can still be included with an altered backstory. Whether the new backstory is any better or worse than what was originally intended is something completely different.

  20. #120
    Heroic Photog Supporter musclor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    Well that needs a correction for a lot of very important reasons, most of all to not get anyone in trouble:
    I don't take any decision for this toyline.
    I'm not affiliated or working for Mattel, I have NO power on MOTUC.
    When asked for information or suggestions, I provided them. But in now way I got to decide on ANYTHING for the toyline.
    My apologies. I didn't mean to misconstrue...
    Photog is here! thank you, Mattel!

    Now how about some mini-comics love (like Lodar, Geldor, Dakon......)? And Mermista?

  21. #121
    Warrior of Evolution 13977's Avatar
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    I hate to say it but weather it was published or not that's her established premises and backstory that people know and if changed will be met with hostility just as it always is when a characters backstory in any media or brand is changed

    Its a shame as well because IMO The Guardians of Grayskull story would work well with MOTUC's 'He-Men' story. The Guardians could be allies of the 'He-Men' helping them defend the Sword of Power and its secrets through ages while waiting for the prophesied He-Man to come.
    Last edited by 13977; December 9, 2011 at 11:54am.
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  22. #122
    Heroic Photog Supporter musclor's Avatar
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    But haven't they changed nearly everyone's established backstory to fit them into the line? I don't see why it would be different for illumina.
    Photog is here! thank you, Mattel!

    Now how about some mini-comics love (like Lodar, Geldor, Dakon......)? And Mermista?

  23. #123
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AximusPrime View Post
    hesitancy to include Illumina right away being she would take a slot from a character that may sell better.
    That's totally fair and right. I can see that happens, I'd be in the same position if I was in the upper management. I would question if Illumina might sell less than other exstabilished characters. I would never say this isn't a fair argument.
    What people seems to have problem with are the contraddictory statement about this that have been made over the course of a few years.
    This is just the last one of them.

    I appreciate the clarification, but to be fair when someone is referred to as a guardian of something it's pretty easy to assume their job is to defend it. Besides, other than defending Castle Grayskull itself, how does one actively make people forget about something?
    Fair too. Of course I could say they guards the secrets more than the actual castle, but the actual explanation of the name takes a very hardcore knowledge of not just MOTU but also of the MOTU fandom.
    Guardian of Grayskull was the name of the mailing list that was the main motu community before He-Man.org forum became more important.
    That name was a nod and an homage to the mailing list (wow, not that I wrote it, I can see how it's such a crazy explantion that people may think I just made it up, but it's absolutely true!)

    Quote Originally Posted by musclor View Post
    But haven't they changed nearly everyone's established backstory to fit them into the line? I don't see why it would be different for illumina.
    You are right.
    I think they way I see it is that MOTUC isn't a square box and circular character can't fit it and must be made into box shapes too.
    There is no proper "fitting". This is a story. A story cna be adapted, stretched, worked, patched as much as anybody want. It's all about the amount of creativity and effort that anybody want to put into it.

    Illumina story could easily fit MOTUC without much changes.
    Heck, 13977 just made a great example.
    And since Mattel never officially rejected the previous story (they didn't, that was never pitched to them), they have no legal obligation at not using it.
    Just change the minimum to fit her into MOTUC.
    My Green Tiger Tribe idea was already altered to fit MOTUC. Why not Illumina too?
    I'm open to changes as long as he's not turned into an Evil Warrior from the Future
    Last edited by Emiliano; December 9, 2011 at 11:47am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Battleground Teela and Goddess were limited to one comic book issue each and they were even harder sells than Carnivus and Faceless One.

    MOTUC specializes in obscurity.
    Or you can look at what The Goddess and BG Teela really are, which are Teela variants and not obscure never before heard of characters.



    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    No one knew about Gygor's existence. He was revealed to the public a few months before we saw a figure, while Illumina is known to the fandom from her one page ad since 2003 or 2004. That's why he's going to keep coming up.
    Gygor is a beast and took up a different slot than the one Illumina would take. If Gygor was a yellow Beastman repaint, the argument would be a stronger one.


    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    That's MYP. How about MOTUC canon? We've got little bits and pieces of the story, so it can be included.
    MOTUC canon can include whatever it wants, but with the inclusion of the various He-Men concept that was introduced alongside with the existing Sorceress lineage, Castle Grayskull is pretty much taken care of.



    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Unless Toyguru decides that Dekker is MAA's only teacher, Duncan does have multiple teachers throughout the series. Since we have Filmation Rights, now we can include Rohad with MYP's Dekker and MVC's Illumina.
    In another post I made, I said I was not against multiple teachers for Man-At-Arms, only with the other background info given on her that it would seem unlikely she would be included in training him. Also, as DJ Force said, there's really nothing that a female Gar with light based magical powers can teach to Duncan who is not a magic user to begin with that he couldn't already learn from Dekker.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    From what Emiliano just explained, they aren't. The Guardians hide Grayskull's existence from people who would attempt to use it's power for their own ends. This could mean hiding maps, books, scrolls, etc that mention Grayskull's existence.
    The Sorceress guards the castle from within, the various He-Men guard it from outside as well as protecting the power sword, 5000 years passed between King Grayskull's death to Prince Adam assuming the role of He-Man, the only people who knew of Castle Grayskull and the power within (King Hsss and Hordak) were defeated and banished to different dimensions. Do we really need yet another faction solely for the purpose of making people forget?

  25. #125
    Squirrel that can type Lewd_Squirrel's Avatar
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    I liked Illumina cause of how she looked, she had a certain mystique about her, plus the pet cat was cool, too. Like what has already been stated on here, by others, I wanted to know more about them, but, alas, it never came into fruition.
    Does Galactus fart?

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