Production costs for bringing back the vintage line to retail?

[Phil.Pastel]

Since MOTUC flopped at retail (for a variety of reasons), would Mattel consider a lower-cost retail line based on the vintage line? They have minimal articulation, and you would think production and shipping costs would be lower. They can also use existing parts and weapons from the commemorative molds.

It's important that the figures be the exact same height and bulkiness. They have to fit in with the originals. It's also important that they don't simply do re-releases. There's a lot of filmation characters to choose from that deserve characters, for example.

It would be great to extend my vintage collection with new characters and re-releases of series 5 and 6 figures.

[Eternian_Canadian]

Since MOTUC flopped at retail (for a variety of reasons)

MOTUC was never in retail, other than the select few 2-packs.

would Mattel consider a lower-cost retail line based on the vintage line? They have minimal articulation, and you would think production and shipping costs would be lower. They can also use existing parts and weapons from the commemorative molds.

It's important that the figures be the exact same height and bulkiness. They have to fit in with the originals. It's also important that they don't simply do re-releases. There's a lot of filmation characters to choose from that deserve characters, for example.

It would also not make any sense to release a retail line based on the vintage figures because:

1) they'd look outdated compared to today's toys
2) it wouldn't make sense after MOTUC to reduce quality, appearance, etc
2) there is no media to support & promote the line (no tv show, no film, etc)

Unless there's a new show, or unless there's a film, there is no reason for Mattel to go full retail with MOTU.

[Phil.Pastel]

MOTUC was never in retail, other than the select few 2-packs.

Exactly. If they haven't made it to retail after 4 years, chances are they won't ever. But that does not mean that toy stores around the country should not be selling some type of MOTU related toys. Anyway, this is not a thread about MOTUC,

It would also not make any sense to release a retail line based on the vintage figures because:

1) they'd look outdated compared to today's toys

Not necessarily. I was at Toys R Us yesterday and not everything is impressive. The halo figures are very small and Cortana has no articulation, none. There is also a line of vintage looking dolls, they look kind of like old Megos!

2) it wouldn't make sense after MOTUC to reduce quality, appearance, etc

If they sell pretty well, they may bring a new audience to MOTUC. If MOTUC is too expensive to go to retail, something has to be done about that. They can't just sit back and hope that someday the subscriber rates will magically rise. Again, this is not a thread about MOTUC, so I don't care to argue that point.

2) there is no media to support & promote the line (no tv show, no film, etc)

Unless there's a new show, or unless there's a film, there is no reason for Mattel to go full retail with MOTU.

There was no film, movie, or show to promote the original toyline.

[whbinder]

Exactly. If they haven't made it to retail after 4 years, chances are they won't ever. But that does not mean that toy stores around the country should not be selling some type of MOTU related toys. Anyway, this is not a thread about MOTUC,

I'm going to have to second the They never succeeded in retail because they were never intended for retail. That's like saying jet fuel never succeeded at retail.

Eternian_Canadian is right. The reasons MOTUC never aimed for retail is because there isn't a market to support it in mass production. That would apply to MOTUC or vintage lines.

Mattel has tried to bring He-Man back to retail many times and failed because of hubris. They believed that the name alone would make the line successful without putting any marketing behind it. That failed. If Mattel was truly committed to putting time and money behind a massive relaunch, then it might be successful, but that's just not the case right now.

He-Man has some name rec, but not the kind of buzz necessary for a retail run.

[Phil.Pastel]

I'm going to have to second the They never succeeded in retail because they were never intended for retail. That's like saying jet fuel never succeeded at retail.

Eternian_Canadian is right. The reasons MOTUC never aimed for retail is because there isn't a market to support it in mass production. That would apply to MOTUC or vintage lines.

Your arguments are conflicting. He is arguing that a vintage line should not be in retail because MOTUC should be there. You are arguing that they should not be there. These are 2 different arguments.

For the record, I agree with you. MOTUC is a serious MOTU collector's line and not a retail line. Either way, it has to be considered a retail flop. If it isn't in retail, it's a retail flop. If it can't succeed at retail, it's a retail flop. That doesn't matter so long as it is profitable, but no sane person can argue that these have been a retail success.

Mattel has tried to bring He-Man back to retail many times and failed because of hubris. They believed that the name alone would make the line successful without putting any marketing behind it. That failed. If Mattel was truly committed to putting time and money behind a massive relaunch, then it might be successful, but that's just not the case right now.

Again, I don't recall a massive launch with the original line. Yeah, there were commercials on TV, but I don't remember being influenced by them. I wanted MOTU because the kids I hung out with had them, because they looked "cool", had great packaging, etc. The cartoon had no influence either. I had a massive collection of figures long before I ever saw my first episode.

He-Man has some name rec, but not the kind of buzz necessary for a retail run.

That's my point, exactly. There isn't going to be any buzz until there are some type of motu toys back at retail. A relatively low-priced line based on the original figures might do that. And a vintage revisit would make a lot of collectors happy.

I don't believe you can place all your eggs in the movie basket. Make great toys that kids might like, then you might not have to rely on directors and producers to sell your products.

[Emiliano]

The vintage line is the vintage line: great tosy, but from 30 years ago.
There is no way they can be remarketed today.
If Mattel brings MOTU back to retail, it will be MOTUC or a completely new line.

[whbinder]

Your arguments are conflicting. He is arguing that a vintage line should not be in retail because MOTUC should be there. You are arguing that they should not be there. These are 2 different arguments.

No, we are both saying that neither line would succeed in reatil.

Again, I don't recall a massive launch with the original line.

Then you must have lived in a place with no stores or televisions, because it was a massive campaign.

That's my point, exactly. There isn't going to be any buzz until there are some type of motu toys back at retail. A relatively low-priced line based on the original figures might do that. And a vintage revisit would make a lot of collectors happy.

Well, that's been done a few times. The specific thing you're recommending has been done more than once. Remember these?



Look, I'd love to have those original toys back in retail, but there simply isn't the buzz among kids and that won't change without a cartoon aimed at them and some serious marketing from Mattel, far more than was done for the 200x line.

Not a slam. I'd love to have them too. Cheers.

[Phil.Pastel]

The vintage line is the vintage line: great tosy, but from 30 years ago.
There is no way they can be remarketed today.
If Mattel brings MOTU back to retail, it will be MOTUC or a completely new line.

I hope you're wrong. I want a batros, and I can't afford customs

I have often wondered if MOTUC should come with some simple vintage accessories. For example, Zodak could come with a new pair of arms with white gloves. Stratos could come with a small egg of avion. Mer-man could come with a new vintage head, etc. I guess people who don't collect vintage wouldn't be thrilled with the idea.

[Eternian_Canadian]

For the record, I agree with you. MOTUC is a serious MOTU collector's line and not a retail line. Either way, it has to be considered a retail flop. If it isn't in retail, it's a retail flop

That makes NO sense.

You can't consider something a retail flop if it wasn't in retail and wasn't intended for retail.

A retail flop is something that was tried in retail and failed.

And your "if you build it they will come" theory is nonsense. If you make a cheap action figure line with no tv show or film to support and promote it how will people know about it and why would children want it?

I wanted MOTU because the kids I hung out with had them, because they looked "cool", had great packaging, etc. The cartoon had no influence either. I had a massive collection of figures long before I ever saw my first episode.

The original line didn't take off or explode in popularity until the Filmation cartoon. My guess is that the kids you hung out with had them because of the cartoon. Speaking for myself I had no idea what MOTU was until I got into the cartoon as a child. The cartoon made me want the figures.

Also the toy market in the early 80s is VERY different than now. The market wasn't saturated with competing lines like now. There are so many cartoons and programs nowadays that it's much harder to have a retail success on the scale of the 80's MOTU. You have 24 hour cartoon channels now that didn't exist back then for example. Without a current media franchise a retail action figure line has very little chance to succeed.

Mattel, like all major toy companies, is in the business of making money, so if they thought the potential was currently there, they would jump all over it. Mattel has clearly stated that without a film they won't do a retail line.

The vintage line is the vintage line: great tosy, but from 30 years ago.
There is no way they can be remarketed today.
If Mattel brings MOTU back to retail, it will be MOTUC or a completely new line.

Amen.

[Phil.Pastel]

And your "if you build it they will come" theory is nonsense. If you make a cheap action figure line with no tv show or film to support and promote it how will people know about it and why would children want it?

I still think you're overrating the quality of toys at the toy store. Again, they had predator and terminator figures at my local tru. These are not exactly red hot franchises. As well as figures from Iron Maiden?????

And Nintendo sells figures with very little articulation and even PVCs. They seem to sell fairly well. They also have godzilla figures, as if your average 6 year old has seen a few Godzilla movies.

The original line didn't take off or explode in popularity until the Filmation cartoon. My guess is that the kids you hung out with had them because of the cartoon. Speaking for myself I had no idea what MOTU was until I got into the cartoon as a child. The cartoon made me want the figures.

That was way before the cartoon. I have a fairly keen memory of that era because we moved to florida for just one year. So that particular year really stands out in my usually bad memory. The line came out when we were in florida. Other notable things that happened when I was in florida: TRON the arcade game, Jordash blue jeans, Styx: Mr. Roboto, and Colecovision! Long live the 80s.

Also the toy market in the early 80s is VERY different than now. The market wasn't saturated with competing lines like now. There are so many cartoons and programs nowadays that it's much harder to have a retail success on the scale of the 80's MOTU. You have 24 hour cartoon channels now that didn't exist back then for example. Without a current media franchise a retail action figure line has very little chance to succeed.

I don't agree with that either. That was the golden age of toy collecting and sci-fi! You could spend a fortune just on Star Wars alone. I had everything from star wars, all the large ships, 12inch figs, die-cast vehicles, almost every figure, the rancor, the At-At walker etc. I'd kill to have all that stuff back. I guess that's why my mom didn't buy me a battle ram. You also had TRON, Battlestar Galactica, ROM spacenight, Black Hole, He-man. Hell, I had all the shogun warriors and even the giant Rodan. AAARRGHH!!

[Eternian_Canadian]

Again, they had predator and terminator figures at my local tru. These are not exactly red hot franchises.

Yes they are. They've had recent films, recent comic books, recent video games, and on top of that have a huge cult following. MOTU has had nothing since the 200x series failed.

That was way before the cartoon.

"way before"? The toyline launched in 1982 and the cartoon launched in 1983, there wasn't a massive gap between the two. The toyline didn't become a massive success until after the debut of the cartoon.

I don't agree with that either.

It's nothing to agree or disagree with, it's a fact. The toy/cartoon market is extremely saturated now compared to then. I even recently read an article to that fact recently, about how it's not as common for a new line to be as successful as MOTU or TMNT were back in the day because there's so much competition. When something does become successful nowadays it tends to be a fad, it explodes overnight, is crazy popular for a short time, and then is forgotten as people move on to the next fad.

[Phil.Pastel]

"way before"? The toyline launched in 1982 and the cartoon launched in 1983, there wasn't a massive gap between the two. The toyline didn't become a massive success until after the debut of the cartoon.

But it was a massive gap. It was a long period of time for a child. Children do not have the same sense of time that adults do. They have no patience at all. And they don't really understand the concept of time all that well, because it's something that has to be experienced and can't really be taught.

I was living in florida when the toys debuted. By the time the cartoon came out, I was living in Pennsylvania. Chronologically, maybe it was only 6 months later, Not much to an adult, but it's a different story when you're a kid. So much had changed. I was in a different house, a new school, surrounded by kids I didn't know, etc. Literally seems like ages from the time I discovered the toys to the time I first saw the cartoon.

[mollusc herald]

I would like to see the vintage commemoratives again. I wish those would sell at retail, but I don't think they'd sell a lot. It would be cool to see them available through Mattel.
Would the vintage commemoratives resonate with young kids? It's not because the vintage look worse than much of the toys at TRU, etc. I look at the vintage line with nostalgia that kids won't have.
When I look at the retail toys I'm underwhelmed. Vintage Mattel and the Horsemen have made great MOTU toys for a long time.
There needs to be new comic books, cartoons, or movie along with proper handling(or just interested higher management at Mattel-Do they really care? or has Toy Guru been good/lucky to get them to go along with MOTUC the last three years?) of the toy franchise to spark MOTU to the next level.

[Phil.Pastel]

I would like to see the vintage commemoratives again. I wish those would sell at retail, but I don't think they'd sell a lot. It would be cool to see them available through Mattel.
Would the vintage commemoratives resonate with young kids? It's not because the vintage look worse than much of the toys at TRU, etc. I look at the vintage line with nostalgia that kids won't have.
When I look at the retail toys I'm underwhelmed. Vintage Mattel and the Horsemen have made great MOTU toys for a long time.
There needs to be new comic books, cartoons, or movie along with proper handling(or just interested higher management at Mattel-Do they really care? or has Toy Guru been good/lucky to get them to go along with MOTUC the last three years?) of the toy franchise to spark MOTU to the next level.

The fact that the commemorative line apparently did poorly is not a good sign. But at least it gave you molds. For example, they could put out mer-man and just have to sculpt a new head. Nothing else would need to be changed.

I would argue that commemoratives were often "out-competed" by the originals. Why would I want to buy 10 commems at $15 a piece when I could buy a lot of 10 originals on ebay for less than $50? Heck, back in 2000/2001, you could probably snag most of the guys at yard sales and flea markets for next to nothing.

The key to the line is they have to be new figures, they can't all be re-issues of older figures. Even if the line isn't profitable, it may not be so costly that you can't just write off those losses as a form of advertising (which is something they apparently do very little of).

[Night Stalker]

With respect to my fellow .orgers, I have to disagree on a few things.

1. The original line is not "outdated". These weren't "cool toys for thirty years ago", they're STILL cool toys and I think that they would sell well at retail given restraint and respect from Mattel. Every kid that has ever seen any of the vintage line on display in my house usually ends up in tears when they find out that they stopped making them 25 years ago. The original figures put the 200X and MOTUC lines to shame in terms of playability.

2. The original toyline was a big success prior to the Filmation deal. The cartoon was a result of the massive popularity of the figures, not vice versa. The toys became even more popular after the advent of the cartoon, but they were already a spectacular success for a franchise with no media ties. The action figure line had been flying off the retail shelves for almost two years before Filmation reared its ugly head.

3. Saying that the original MOTU line doesn't match the "quality" or "articulation" of current toys isn't exactly accurate. I think MOTU would dominate toy sales today simply because today's competition is the same as it was thirty years ago.

Remember when you went into a department store and the toy aisle was full of Star Wars, Thundercats, GI Joe, Transformers and Marvel Comics figures? It could have been 1985 or it could have been yesterday. This is the perfect time for MOTU to come back to retail and crush these other lines just like it did 30 years ago.

[Phil.Pastel]

With respect to my fellow .orgers, I have to disagree on a few things.

1. The original line is not "outdated". These weren't "cool toys for thirty years ago", they're STILL cool toys and I think that they would sell well at retail given restraint and respect from Mattel. Every kid that has ever seen any of the vintage line on display in my house usually ends up in tears when they find out that they stopped making them 25 years ago. The original figures put the 200X and MOTUC lines to shame in terms of playability.

By that argument, the BCI releases shouldn't have sold. After all, they're 30 year old cartoon episodes.

2. The original toyline was a big success prior to the Filmation deal. The cartoon was a result of the massive popularity of the figures, not vice versa. The toys became even more popular after the advent of the cartoon, but they were already a spectacular success for a franchise with no media ties. The action figure line had been flying off the retail shelves for almost two years before Filmation reared its ugly head.

Finally, someone agrees with me. The toys were doing well before the cartoon.

3. Saying that the original MOTU line doesn't match the "quality" or "articulation" of current toys isn't exactly accurate. I think MOTU would dominate toy sales today simply because today's competition is the same as it was thirty years ago.

Remember when you went into a department store and the toy aisle was full of Star Wars, Thundercats, GI Joe, Transformers and Marvel Comics figures? It could have been 1985 or it could have been yesterday. This is the perfect time for MOTU to come back to retail and crush these other lines just like it did 30 years ago.

I don't think it has to match them. I think price may be the more important factor. Figures seem to be getting more and more expensive. That was the point of my thread. Maybe these could be priced low.

It's obvious that you can't price MOTUC low (and it's fairly obvious that they have no desire to so). So your retail options are a new movie line requiring all new sculpts, or using the commemorative molds for a new vintage line.

[keller]

80's toy icons do return G.I. Joe did it, Thundercats did it Smurf's did it, By the Power Of Grayskull Motu will too!!!!!

[Phil.Pastel]

80's toy icons do return G.I. Joe did it, Thundercats did it Smurf's did it, By the Power Of Grayskull Motu will too!!!!!

It's worth noting that the Commermorative line did not have the benefit of the BCI releases. A lot of people did not see the cartoon for who knows how many years, and considered the figures "yard sale" figures. A lot of people probably just saw the line as 'yet another rehash' of an older concept. Some people may have kept them in the pack since they were limited editions, rather than give them to their kids. You hardly ever see loose ones on ebay.

Well, those are just a few possible explanations for why the commemorative line didn't do well.

[crashdiary27]

I had all my commeratives still in the boxes. Then my son got into MOTU. It was a joyful yet sad day watching him open those.

Anyway I also remember having the toys before ever seeing a cartoon. I guess they just looked cool. I think a vintage line would sell as well...why dont they just air the original cartoons? Most cartoons these days are all crap anyway. Just my opinion...

[EldestSon]

motuc can be considered a retail flop because tru stopped ordering the 2 packs. tru and other retailers know dcuc sells well, so they will most likely blame the motuc part of the 2 packs for the failure.

[Phil.Pastel]

motuc can be considered a retail flop because tru stopped ordering the 2 packs. tru and other retailers know dcuc sells well, so they will most likely blame the motuc part of the 2 packs for the failure.

I consider it to be a retail flop just because the line isn't bringing MOTU the benefit of retail. The whole point of retail is product exposure. People see your product on the shelves of various stores they go to. People can't buy your product if they don't know about it. I didn't find about motuc until I started searching ebay for vintage figures back in 2010.

Companies that bypass retail often go to extremes to make the public aware of their product. Think about a Kirby salesman going door to door and putting on product demonstrations in the customer's own home, the dreaded phone calls from telemarketers, or spending a fortune on tv commercials.

I had all my commeratives still in the boxes. Then my son got into MOTU. It was a joyful yet sad day watching him open those.

That's a great story. Thanks

[Louis649]

If Mattel ever re-release again the vintage MOTU figures the cost would be similar to the commemorative ones like over $20 bucks. Also if they see their way into retail again they would be released in very small numbers targeted to collectors. I would love to buy a Sorceress, Clamp Champ, Scareglow and a couple of Horde Troopers to accompany my old one.

[Phil.Pastel]

If Mattel ever re-release again the vintage MOTU figures the cost would be similar to the commemorative ones like over $20 bucks. Also if they see their way into retail again they would be released in very small numbers targeted to collectors. I would love to buy a Sorceress, Clamp Champ, Scareglow and a couple of Horde Troopers to accompany my old one.

No, it wouldn't work. Wouldn't be any point to having 2 different MOTU lines competing with each other and targeting the same audience.

The majority of retail shoppers are not serious adult collectors. If they were, the TRU packs would have sold much better than they did (although they should have been numbered). Set up camp for a few hours at a toys r us and you will see parents and kids, mostly. It is a freakin' toy store after all. A low-priced vintage line is your only shot at getting MOTU figs into their hands.

[StrikeoftheBeast]

Not selling at retail means more money. Mattel is cutting out the middle man.

[Grimbot]

They should make smaller versions of MOTUC figures and put that into retail.