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Thread: Toyguru talks about PoP in 2012

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    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Toyguru talks about PoP in 2012

    I found this answer from Toyguru about PoP in 2012. He totally mentions Josh too!

    Clawdeen's question: There are quite a few rumours saying that POP will only be getting one monthly figure slot in 2012 and obviously alot of fans are not happy about this particuarly on HE-MAN.ORG.

    The Great Rebellion is practically non existant as it is, Shadow Weaver is not a Rebel and the Star Sisters take up a multi-pack/beast slot not the 12 monthly figure slots and are not core POP characters. I read a previous answer where you said POP already had quite a bit but POP fans want core important Rebellion members such as Glimmer, Frosta, Castaspella, Queen Angella and Mermista.

    Another suggestion I read was that Sea Hawk was due to be released in 2013 so even if it's not true can I just say (as someone who is well in tune with what POP fans want since I read all the POP related threads) that using Sea Hawk as the POP incentive figure for a 2013 subscription really won't work POP fans want the core important female rebels first.

    How can POP one of the most popular and most loved aspects of MOTUC get only one monthly figure slot for a year?

    Toyguru's answer: Thanks for your question. Let me use your post to help clear up quite a few issues.

    1: First and foremost, you are asking a question based on unconfirmed rumors and online speculation. We have not announced anyone past Horde Prime. You'll just need to wait for NYTF for the next big reveals!If rumors keep you up at night, stop paying attention to them. They are only rumors and not confirmed announcements. ;-)

    2: I think a lot of POP issues may stream from the way the Horsemen and I (and Terry etc..) viewed their inclusion in the line and the way some fans do. First off, POP in our minds 100% includes POP villains like Catra and Shadow Weaver. Catra was in the vintage POP toyline and SW was exclusive to the POP series. It also includes POP oversized/beasts like Swiftwind. All bring more POP to the line. Some fans also tend to drill down a bit further from MOTUC > POP > Rebellion Members > Female Rebellion members > Female Rebellion Members that had toys in the vintage line.

    When you are this specific we may not meet your request right away. This is just simply too specific for us to view the limited slots we have each year. Just like we did not get to both a Space Mutant and a Galactic Protector last year, New Adventures was present. We totally know fans want the main POP ladies and of course we are looking for way to bring them to the line. POP has had more representation then Snake Men, Horde, or New Adventures when you look at everything released thus far. And we know there is a lot more to get to in time. Stay tuned. I promise POP will continue to play an important part in the line.

    I've also seen some fans only look at the 12 monthly figure slots as where items must be. And again, this is getting too specific. We view the line more as the full year of everything in the sub. Remember, continuing into 2012 the sub includes quarterly beasts/multipacks and quarterly variants. So a subcatagory like POP, NA, Mini Comics, 200X, Filmation, etc... could be covered in any of the slots in the sub. With this in mind, you are already getting 3 members of the Great Rebellion in 2012 already, Starla, Jewelstar and Tallstar. Plus the sub exclusive is a POP female. That's already more POP in Q1 then we have done in any previous year in total. Saying these figures do not count because they were not members of the core Filmation/vintage toy line or is not specifically in a monthly slot is just getting too specific for a toy line with such limited skus each year. We just can't drill down this deep when filling slots.

    And as announced there is still more POP coming in the full sub 2012 line. Whether that is a monthly figure or figures or quarterly item or items it could be anything from a good guy/gal, bad guy/gal, rebellion member, filmation character or Josh from the mini comics. What you will get beyond Horde Primw has yet to be revealed. But more POP is coming in 2012.

    Hope this helps!

    TG
    http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve...137#3201084137

    One thing I'm a tad confused about from his answer...what's classified as "Evil Horde" and what's classified as "PoP"?

    *Evil-Horde Catra, with a Horde sticker on her bubble...in her Horde outfit from the cartoon is classified as PoP
    *Shadow Weaver is classified as PoP, with Horde sticker on her bubble.
    *Horde Prime...originated in Filmation PoP cartoon...but is THE main Horde member. Is he PoP too?

    I'm very confused over this classification system.
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    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    I think Scot is correct in his answer.

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    Neutral Observer Alexxandar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterniandreams View Post
    I think Scot is correct in his answer.
    Agreed, I concur.

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    Heroric Drummer Brian Ozone's Avatar
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    Why can't we get more of the other factions we got a lot of pop already. Id like more mincomcs or NA or 200x. Enough pop already.
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    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    All I know, is if I see a Horde sticker on a figure, they are a HORDE figure...right? Does that not make sense?

    If they're being considered PoP...why don't they have the PoP sticker? Catra was on the PoP card in the 80's (in her non-Horde outfits). The PoP sticker has nothing to do with allegiance (Great Rebellion or Evil Horde)...it was about the brand. *shrugs*

    It's not a "big deal" to me, I'm just confused.
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    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    The horde sticker on Catra was more or less requested by fans. I wasnt aware the sticker was the qualification. I would love to have Minicomic and 200X stickers then.
    But maybe Mattel should stop putting stickers on the packages themselves and give a sticker sheet every year so fans can decide themselves and not get confused.

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    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Personally I don't think it's fair to lump together everything from the world of POP (Filmation, mini-comics, toy line etc.) and treat the entire thing as a sub-category. The figures are all selling. 'Getting specific' is precisely what Mattel and the hardcore fans do with MOTU. Why should POP be treated any different from MOTU?

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    Shera's secret heartthrob oulala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    All I know, is if I see a Horde sticker on a figure, they are a HORDE figure...right? Does that not make sense?

    If they're being considered PoP...why don't they have the PoP sticker? Catra was on the PoP card in the 80's (in her non-Horde outfits). The PoP sticker has nothing to do with allegiance (Great Rebellion or Evil Horde)...it was about the brand. *shrugs*

    It's not a "big deal" to me, I'm just confused.
    I disagree.

    I find it always odd when PoP fans are ready to exclude Horde members from POP for the sake of argument, and then resent Motu fans when they do the same. As pop fans, we can't on one hand say that Catra doesn't count as a pop charcter, and complain when motu purists claim that the horde is Motu and non-pop! It doesnt make sense to me!

    the Horde WAS created for POP. See my signature down below! It's a fact, it's not a point of view. So for me, I celebrate figures like Hordak and Leech as part of Pop! They ARE She-ra's foes, period. Who cares what the sticker says on Catra! it won't negate the mini comics, the multitude of filmation episodes she was featured in.

    I WOULD LOVE to get all the POP characters, I always loved Motu too but I like PoP a bit better so I am biais for PoP characters too, but if I try to be objective, I must agree with Toyguru's post: pop already has a lot of characters in the toyline. The more the better, but I m cool with 2012... As long that Frosta or Glimmer are not too faraway!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    The harsh reality is that the Horde were originally intended for POP, and they have always been intended for POP. Filmation developed the characters for the POP cartoon. It's a fact.

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    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oulala View Post
    it won't negate the mini comics, the multitude of filmation episodes she was featured in.
    It's a tricky situation. Also, in the mini-comics and some UK books, Catra is not a Horde member. SHE is the main villainess. Hordak merely captured Adora. In the mini-comics, that's his only cameo.

    Plus, for MOTUC purposes, the version we got should really be categorized as "Filmation" and neither Horde nor PoP (in my opinion). PoP Catra is her OWN villainess.

    I know the Horde was originally created for She-Ra, but the toys of the Horde were MOTU...and appeared before the toon. So, like I said...it's a tricky situation.

    Anyway...I want more Rebellion. Adora/She-Ra, Bow and the Star Sisters is all we will have come February 2012. 2008-2012 and we will have 5 characters of the Great Rebellion.
    Last edited by Darkspecter; December 17, 2011 at 06:40am.
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    Spirit of She-Ra ! Angel-T's Avatar
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    Simple fact of the matter is this:

    When the Horde became a faction in it's own right, the fans came to label POP as 'THE GREAT REBELLION'. It's not that hard to understand!!!

    With no Great Rebellion faction sticker to label them, and with Horde under their own banner (and released as MOTU figures in the vintage line) POP came to represent the 'WARRIORS OF THE GREAT REBELLION'!!!

    Simple.

    So far (She Ra/Adora aside as they are one) we have ONE Great Rebellion member. Bow.

    As a major brand and cartoon in it's own right, POP fans have a right to be annoyed. They pay for their subs year after year just as much as the MOTU fans in the hope of seeing their factions represented also, thus far they have ONE member of The Great Rebellion.

    It equates to this. If He Man fans at this point, 4 years into the line, only had He Man, Prince Adam and Teela (the equivalent to She Ra, Adora and Bow) do you not think they'd be kicking off?

    AFTER FOUR YEARS, ONLY HE MAN, PRINCE ADAM AND TEELA?

    Four years worth of subs to only have those?

    You don't think they'd be more than little rattled they hadn't got Man-at-arms, Man-e-faces, Stratos, Zodak etc?

    That's all POP fans are saying. Frosta, Queen Angella, Glimmerr and Castaspella are the equivalent of those characters to the POP fans.

    From day 1 we were promised a blend, and understood totally the need to space out characters to fill out the line. But after FOUR YEARS we have 1 great rebellion member, plus 3 versions of one character (Adora/She Ra/BP She Ra) and let's face it, we only got BP She Ra because Mattel messed up the original figure and she couldn't sit on her own horse, don't for a second think we would have gotten her otherwise.

    The spacing out of characters though has been totally unbalanced. Yet again the start of 2012 is totally vintage MOTU heavy, and whilst I understand that's likely done to attract subscribers, would it have killed you to have one Great Rebellion member in there? one MYP? Would people have subbed any less if they'd seen

    Sorceress
    Fisto
    Frosta
    Prahvus
    Stinkor

    Of course not, it's just down to good character selection. The gap is narrowing now, hardly any of the GREAT REBELLION have been released. Spin it any way you want but Star Sisters, as cool prototypes as they are, were never members of the Great Rebellion, they never got the chance to be, and had about 30 seconds of screen time, they're not even on par with Prince Zed who at least had a proper fleshed out appearance in the cartoon, and he'd be considered Z list at best.

    POP fans aren't asking for much, we just want to see a step up in the inclusion of the members of the GREAT REBELLION. We're very aware that unless they start appearing shortly, we'll NEVER get to most of them, because you've left it until 4 years into the line untill we got Swiftwind for goodness sake!!!!! Again, you don't think He Man fans would have been annoyed if they'd had to wait four years to get BATTLE CAT?

    So when we refer to POP, I and many other POP fans actually mean GREAT REBELLION!

    Just wanted to clear that one up!

    Last edited by Angel-T; December 17, 2011 at 09:28am.
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  11. #11
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    I know the Horde was originally created for She-Ra, but the toys of the Horde were MOTU...and appeared before the toon. So, like I said...it's a tricky situation.
    Are you sure about this? When did that wave of toys get released? IMDB shows that the cartoon started sept 1985.... but the Secret of the sword was released in theaters in MARCH of 1985.

    I know for a FACT that I saw that in theaters LONG before I ever saw a horde in the toystores... I distinctly remember looking forward to Mantenna... Since I had issues with the legs breaking off, and he would come with a second set....

    Only to be disappointed by the crappy fused leg thing we got...

    The .org lists the horde as 1985 toys... but I'm not sure what month that means...

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    Heroic Warrior kup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    All I know, is if I see a Horde sticker on a figure, they are a HORDE figure...right? Does that not make sense?

    If they're being considered PoP...why don't they have the PoP sticker? Catra was on the PoP card in the 80's (in her non-Horde outfits). The PoP sticker has nothing to do with allegiance (Great Rebellion or Evil Horde)...it was about the brand. *shrugs*

    It's not a "big deal" to me, I'm just confused.
    You are being 'too specific'.


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    Heroic Warrior EldestSon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterniandreams View Post
    I think Scot is correct in his answer.
    i agree, but this comment is not needed:

    If rumors keep you up at night, stop paying attention to them.
    specifically the bolded part. no where did clawdeen state rumors were keeping her up at night. these cute jokey responses are really not needed.

    i think this was spot on:

    It also includes POP oversized/beasts like Swiftwind. All bring more POP to the line. Some fans also tend to drill down a bit further from MOTUC > POP > Rebellion Members > Female Rebellion members > Female Rebellion Members that had toys in the vintage line.

    When you are this specific we may not meet your request right away. This is just simply too specific for us to view the limited slots we have each year.
    i mean, star sisters don't count cause they are taking a multi/beast slot? shadow weaver doesn't count cause she wasn't in the rebellion? then i guess skeletor and the evil warriors don't count as motu - WE NEED MORE MOTU FIGS! STAT!

    btw, catra is CLEARLY a pop character having been in the pop toon and having a pop toy created for her.

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    Heroic Warrior Mern-Ra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EldestSon View Post
    specifically the bolded part. no where did clawdeen state rumors were keeping her up at night. these cute jokey responses are really not needed.
    Look, I haven't been happy with a lot of ToyGuru's responses (or in some cases non-responses) lately, but I don't think he was being snarky this time because 'keeping you up at night' is an expression that means someone is stressed, and I think Clawdeen's post could easily be taken with a stressed tone. And I think it's pretty impressive that he chose this question to talk so much about POP because if I were him and I started to read ANY question that started "There are quite a few rumours saying" I would stop reading RIGHT then and there. I mean, she wasn't just asking him to clear up RUMORS, for God's sake, but INTERNET RUMORS. If someone's getting worked up about those, that's no one's fault but their own.
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    Heroic Warrior EldestSon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mern-Ra View Post
    Look, I haven't been happy with a lot of ToyGuru's responses (or in some cases non-responses) lately, but I don't think he was being snarky this time because 'keeping you up at night' is an expression that means someone is stressed, and I think Clawdeen's post could easily be taken with a stressed tone. And I think it's pretty impressive that he chose this question to talk so much about POP because if I were him and I started to read ANY question that started "There are quite a few rumours saying" I would stop reading RIGHT then and there. I mean, she wasn't just asking him to clear up RUMORS, for God's sake, but INTERNET RUMORS. If someone's getting worked up about those, that's no one's fault but their own.
    i didn't say he was being snarky. i think he was trying to be cute and joke around, but it never goes well for him. he should just stick to the straight dope.

  16. #16
    Powers of Grayskull Lord Snake Hunter's Avatar
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    Please TG, dontīt try to fool us.

    The scheme is very simple MOTUC > POP (Great Rebellion Heroines). No need to talk about being too specific.

    Catra and ShadowWeaver are Evil Horde.

    We have limited slots. Cool. Please donīt fill that limited slots with unrequested variants (Snake Man-at-Arms) and give people what they want. More core Great Rebellion characters.
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    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Hunter View Post
    Please TG, dontīt try to fool us.

    The scheme is very simple MOTUC > POP (Great Rebellion Heroines). No need to talk about being too specific.
    So what are Bow, Sea Hawk and Swiftwind?
    Good vs Evil is not the classification. We dont have a Evil Warriors subcategory eithet.

  18. #18
    Powers of Grayskull Lord Snake Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterniandreams View Post
    So what are Bow, Sea Hawk and Swiftwind?
    Good vs Evil is not the classification. We dont have a Evil Warriors subcategory eithet.
    Please, is not a matter of stickers, is a matter of factions...

    Sea Hawk has been revealed? When? Then, will we only get male characters from the Great Rebellion?
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  19. #19
    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Hunter View Post
    Please, is not a matter of stickers, is a matter of factions...

    Sea Hawk has been revealed? When? Then, will we only get male characters from the Great Rebellion?
    You are reaching. You know very well who is considered part of the world of Shera and part of the Motu Horde toy line.

    I like the POP toys but the questions like the one above constantly playing the underdog/ victom card is getting old quickly.
    POp is getting lots of love and slots in MOTUC.

    But for those who seem to be thinking that POP is under represented ad grasp for logic, good luck with that. Just realize that support from other fans will slink.
    Mine is when I see these questions and responses.

  20. #20
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    I'm genuinely confused by the factions now. Are ALL Horde members going to be considered as PoP characters in the line now, because they also appeared in the PoP cartoon? Does it depend of where they first appeared (MOTU toy, PoP cartoon, etc.)?

    Hordak, Leech, Hurricane Hordak. Were those PoP figures in MOTUC? How is Mattel classifying these?

    If these classifications mean more or less slots for PoP a year, it is a good idea to figure out where Mattel is coming from.
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  21. #21
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    I guess my question for Mattel is: Why does Mattel make no issue of the topic when hardcore vintage MOTU fans ask you to round out so and so wave or get more Snake Men, Horde etc., as if they're separate entities from MOTU, but with POP fans we're 'getting too specific'?

  22. #22
    Lord of the Patch baronterror's Avatar
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    It all seems overblown to me as well.

    I definately want a Vintage Toy Catra variant. But since we got Filmation Catra, which I am very happy about, I am certainly glad she got a Horde Sticker on her, she deserved it. At lest that version of her. The Classic Variant could be before she was in the Horde, whatever.

    As for considering all things POP as he described it, that is completely accurate. I think he hit it right when he suggested that people were making it more and more specific to validate that their favourites werent being made fast enough.

    That's always a problem when people cant see past what they prefer against everyone's needs.

    I think that though I certainly think they could have perhaps added one more Rebellion character in this time at least, I am assuming their math for a nice mix of characters from all era's is sound.

    I believe they have a good handle on this. I am anxious to get Glimmer in particular, but there is so much good stuff comming, I always have something good to await.

  23. #23
    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    Prepare to wait about another year and a half for Glimmer.

    I'd agree with you about the favorites thing of we had ANY of the female Rebellion members at this point (aside from Adora/She-Ra).

    It just seems weird to me that in 2010, we had Grizzlor, Roboto, and Buzz-Off in a row. What? Roboto couldn't have been held back for Castaspella or Angella? Would that have really ticked anyone off?

    I don't think any POP fan is saying we should have tons of POP representation already. Just a few.

    That's reasonable, especially because POP fans almost always seem to be 100% committed to PURCHASING all that Mattel releases under the MOTUC banner.

    THAT is the key element here.

    Vintage MOTU purists tend to cherry pick. Is bet money that the bulk of POP fans are subscribers, and always will be, while the bulk of vintage purists are not.

    That is something this brand manager needs to keep in mind.
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  24. #24
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    I got no problem with Roboto being held back, so Mattel had the the time to make him right!!!

  25. #25
    Heroic Warrior SnakeTeela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    Prepare to wait about another year and a half for Glimmer.
    WHAT??? That seriously makes me so sad. She is so essential to the POP world, its such a shame to not have her. It really is like having MOTU without Man-at-arms. I really hope they reconsider and we at least see her as an early 2013 figure (like January early). Then they can give us whatever rebellion members in whatever order and I wont complain. But it would be so nice to complete the core group of She-Ra/Bow/Glimmer.

    I dont want to sound too ungrateful because I genuinely am so excited to get the Star Sisters and Glorybird as well as Shadow Weaver (and all the other releases, I've had three subs for years now and while I'm mostly vocal about POP, I love almost every figure produced in the line so far).

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