Reply With QuoteWell that's too bad I thought it was a fun debate. I like hearing what others thing as long as they like to hear what I think. Which isn't always the case, mind you.Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!
I think a lot of you need to see the movie a second time, because you are missing obvious things. Yes, there are some I agree with, even I have said the movie is flawed, but a lot of complaints stem from it not being connected to Alien or just nitpicking. It makes me wonder though, was Alien highly regarded right after it came out or was it like the way Prometheus is now? Or rather, if this was 1979, and we had the internet, would we have all of this much debate?
Oh, and anyone else that asks about why David did something, it was BECAUSE HE COULD.
Anyway, I expect people to realize this movie's true brilliance the same way they have with some of Scott's other movies.
BTW, those of you that are stating the plot holes to Prometheus, tell me, what is the plot to 2001: Space Odyssey? What was the purpose of the tablet? Why did we get stuck spending so much time with these worthless characters that did nothing? What was the point of HAL and Dave? Why was Dave suddenly so old and then turned into a baby? I don't get that movie at all, as there are way too many plot holes to make it any good. Explain it to me.
And no, I'm being serious here, I do not like 2001 at all because I do not get it.
Last edited by Dr Kain; June 13, 2012 at 12:14am.
Well that's too bad I thought it was a fun debate. I like hearing what others thing as long as they like to hear what I think. Which isn't always the case, mind you.
So, where in this Von Daniken thesis do the alien creators grant immortal life to human beings? Sure there was the prospect of finding alien life, but where do you go from that to the promise of immortal life? Plot holes can refer to anything from illogical conclusions to inconsistent character actions. Hole, meet Plot. Plot, meet Hole.
Not providing your audience with the necessary information regarding a story and expecting them to come to a conclusion that suits you is like laughing at a private joke in public and expecting people to think it's funny just because you're laughing. It's pretentious. It also means you probably don't have a compelling story to tell.That crew member kept prodding him over and over about how he isn't human and how he was created because someone "could". David was probably a little malicious at that point and wanted to play god himself after Weyland gave him the motivation to "try harder". He had an entire agenda of his own and much more knowledge than anyone else by reading all those glyphs and instructions, certainly more information that the audience.
There is no stated reason for David to do this. It is never clear if he was given orders by Weyland or if it was out of his own morbid fascination, revenge, or general hatred for the human race. We do know what Ash would have done in this situation because it was clearly explained that he had a directive to do it.To see what would happen, same reason the two archaeologists wanted to explore something so unknown and engage any life if found, something Vickers warned them not to.
If David was a rogue AI all along, the least they could have done was given a window into his personal motivation. Offhand remarks at the pool table couldn't have had much to do with it as David dipped his finger in the goo before he went out to talk with Holloway.
The only persons who engaged the alien life forms were David and the dumber-than-a-bag-of-rocks geologists.
There was a whole line of those temples! How a man of science could allow himself to be hung up on any conclusion, let alone sit there brooding after just one day's work does not follow. Especially since his thesis was essentially proven at that point.Find this a matter of opinion. I didn't see it this way.
Again, the reason was impulsive and ill advised for a trillion dollar expedition. It made them look far less credible as professional scientists or even reasonable human beings. How can oxygen content be the only factor? How about unknown pathogens? This one was just common sense!Again, opinion. Not a plot hole. A reason was given why they took the helmets off.
That's how they missed the return to the ship and spent the night there. There's just no excuse for this as the probes were mapping faster than these guys were moving and how they didn't have the means to access those maps is beyond me. Major gap.Don't remember this
This was from the geologists that walked away from the dead Engineers. Then suddenly they find some hidden store of strange fascination with an organism that looks like a cross between a cobra and a venereal disease. The appropriate equipment is a pair of shoes and the ability to walk and/or run away.They came off harmless at first and what is the appropriate equipment?
Anyway...
At the very least it shows their capacity for independent thought and the ability to elaborate on their position.These aren't plot holes at all IMO, more like an annoyed movie goer who needs everything explained to them.
I'll agree with that. imo it was the best sequence of the film.Interesting. A few thoughts of my own -
As for the procedure where they remove the thingy... a couple things to consider. She wasn't giving birth to some beautiful child. It was this horrible, unimaginable monster she had to escape from and then kill. I'm guessing the adrenaline kicked in. Between the adrenaline and the painkillers, I can see her getting away right after.
Yeah, she did have some probs inititially but she seemed to be able to ignore it while running/climbing her way out of the ship's path. Consistent with someone running on pure adrenaline? Sure. With a belly fully of staples? Maybe. But here's the kicker, how come the genetic mutation didn't affect the rest of her body? I suppose we'll know the truth in the next film when all the protagonists wear spacesuits made from uteri.And everyone who has brought this up (many have!) act like she was running around just fine. She was falling over and barely keeping it together for the rest of the movie! Now, yes, she does do things not long after (like running and jumping and running into things) that would make a typical human today crumple over in pain after such a procedure. For me, that ran into the needs of propelling the story overriding some real-world stuff. Personally, I'm fine with that. But I can see how someone might think it's silly. But personally my suspension of disbelief was intact.
When David infected Holloway, he became the real villain of the film. It was the android... not the alien or any of the humans. Weyland certainly wouldn't have been that reckless with experimentation if he was serious about immortality. Judging by how deftly he had David solve the language and technology of the engineers, it suggests Scott would have been more at home directing a Terminator or AI sequel.I really doubt David has any real knowledge of WHAT would happen, exactly. Or maybe he did after studying the goo some... but they had spent a trillion dollars and come all this way, and before the sleeping Engineer was discovered this was the only lead they had. To see what reaction a human had to the goo, and if it infected the offspring of a goo infected person in some way... it was quite a (horrible) opportunity for an experiment.
Haha I always questioned that too. The sheer amount of suspense it added helped justify it though.This one I agree with, but I like to call this "horror movie" logic. It didn't bother me, but I guess it could annoy some. I found this moment to be kind of fun and silly in a way that many horror moments are. These exist in ALIEN as well. Hello, why did Ripley go after the damn cat?
For a movie that flaunts a living Space Jockey in front of our faces, then proceeds to give just a few minutes of screen time to him and offers no explaination for his actions, it shares much of the same hubris as its namesake.We never saw what actually happened to the Engineers. They could have had some. They could have had systems in place to deal with this... but maybe they failed? I feel like we don't even know enough about what happened to even wonder this. Nor do we need to. All we need to know for the story is that it happened.
Therefore the movie gods have spoken: fanboys and critics alike shall revisit this film for years to come to pluck out it's tortured plot over and over and over again.
Last edited by Inhibitor; June 13, 2012 at 12:30am.
Your support means more research for the Myostatin-challenged.
Sigh. Is it always necessary for me to include one of those irritating smiley icons when I'm jesting? Okay. Here it is:Well that's too bad I thought it was a fun debate. I like hearing what others thing as long as they like to hear what I think. Which isn't always the case, mind you.
So I just got back from Prometheus and I have mixed feelings. Overall I felt the movie was beautifully shot and it was nice to see that it wasn't purely reliant on CGI effects. Some of the more visceral scenes stuck with traditional movie goop. Made some of the people around me a little uncomfortable.
I was a little confused as to to some of the elements in the story. From what I gathered, the 'Engineering' alien species was basically responsible for our creation, and the Xenomorph species was basically a bio-weapons creation that it would use to wipe out a species during a failed experiment? So basically Peter Weyland assembles a team, and travels across the cosmos to find the creators of human beings, hoping they would be benevolent, and would perhaps revitalize him. Instead he found a species that regards their creation (for some unknown reason) as little more than a petty annoyance and its their plan to wipe them out and start over?
Another orger said this first, and I agree, that the 'Infected Fifield" zombie creature returning to the craft, was little more than a meaningless throwaway action sequence. That was time that could have been spent on exposition, or something else entirely. Also I wasn't a fan of the new designs for the origin of the Xenomorph species as I felt they were too much of a departure from the original Alien movies. The giant squid thing just looked ridiculous. The Engineer aliens however were kind of cool, and I loved the bio-suit look. After glancing over the previous posts, I see one of those funny posters popped up again. It made me appreciate the look of the new 'aliens' even less.
If you are a fan of sci-fi movies, aliens, and well the Alien franchise in general, you may like this movie. Maybe I need to see it again. Charlize Theron is defiantly enjoying the reboot of her acting career, she kind of disappeared for a while, but damn, I like this chick. I was even considering that new movie with whats-her-droopy-face from Twilight, just to see Charlize light up the screen.
For the moment I'm giving it a 5 out of 10.
Last edited by Sky Breaker; June 13, 2012 at 02:47am.
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That You, my King, should die for me?"
I just started reading The Art of Prometheus and Scott pretty much says just that, and that's part of the reason the movie morphed from a full-on prequel to something else. He though the xenomorphs had been played out, and the Engineers presented a new opportunity for a different sort of threat. Not necessarily as traditionally scary, but scary in different ways in capability and the way they regard humanity.
I'm hopeful for a sequel. The engineers need to be in control next time.
Your support means more research for the Myostatin-challenged.
So it has been announced that the BD will include a director's cut with 20 additional minutes of footage. That should be awesome.
So someone tell me what evidence there is to support the claim that the crew of the Prometheus knew that the Engineers were coming to wipe out all life on our planet?
Nobody (apart from David) knows what the black ooze does or that it truly is dangerous. Halloway had no idea that David put some in his drink and that is why he began to change. Shaw had no idea that Halloway had been infected with black ooze which was why she gave birth to an alien squid thing and nobody knew that Fiefeld had ended face first in the stuff which was why he came back as a mutant zombie thing (yes if you looked at his face closely it was Fielfeld not Halloway who killed a bunch of people and got ran over). So why did they assume it was dangerous?
The map to earth on the alien spaceship. Well sure there is a map, I have already explained that. They have been to earth before, numerous times, hell according to the movie they created us. It seems natural they would have a map to earth. The only reason it stood out to the crew was that it was a map of Earth, it is recognizable to us and we tend to notice things we recognize.
Putting the two together creates pretty circumstantial evidence to support their claim that the Engineers are evil and want to kill us all and I doubt it would get very far in a court of law
Some thoughts on an alternate interpretation:
The Engineers made humans as hosts for biological weapons.
They’d encountered the Xenomorph before (or created it), as evidenced by the carved image in the main room (i.e. they knew the end result/form of the ooze). They knew that the black ooze would create a creature, a proto-facehugger, which attacks and infects an engineer, and eventually a xenomorph bursts out.
They don’t want to use their own species as hosts, so they create another species (human) to act as hosts. It looks like it takes a long time for us to evolve to the necessary level (the 35,000 year old image to the more recent 2-3000 year old ones. This does answer one question – if they created us why are all of the images of the stars only pointing to a weapons/military outpost? Because that was always part of the reason of our creation, and that is what we are linked to.)
They move to deploy the weapons to earth to infect the population and create an army of bio-engineered xenomorphs.
One engineer decides that he will save humanity and stop the other engineers from sending the ship. (this is our Prometheus who gives us the gift of life, or further evolution, and breaks ranks with the plans of the other “gods.”)
He releases something in the weapons facility which will kill the engineers (make them dissolve/ explode similar the one at the beginning, and exemplified by the severed head, so that they cannot be used as hosts either). The engineers in the recording are running away from this infection/contagion. The ones in cryo-sleep are safe.
This is why upon awakening the one engineer tries to complete his mission and send the ship to earth.
This leads to some interesting answers to the big questions – Why were we created? Etc. For a simple and mundane reason. It shows that there are no satisfying answers to these big questions, that there are no greater truths to be learned. I think that this plays out in the fate of Weyland, who went looking for these answers, as well as our two archaeologists. This is a rather existentialist reading of the film.
A separate point about David – since we don’t hear what Weyland said to him early in the film we don’t know if his experimenting is another case of a robot following orders, or if he’s taking his own initiative. I believe that the film leaves this intentionally ambiguous.
Right on target. You ought to consider a career as a film critic, starting with this article presented to your local newspaper.
Really? There are far more capable movie reviewers on here, and I was half asleep when I wrote this.Right on target. You ought to consider a career as a film critic, starting with this article presented to your local newspaper.
Whether or not there are more capable reviewers here -- and that's debatable -- the point is that there may not be more capable reviewers in your locality and that it wouldn't hurt you to explore the possibilities with your local newspaper. And if you wrote it when you were half-asleep then just imagine what you could do when fully awake.
After thirty-five years as a professional writer, btw, I'm a pretty good judge of talent.
it was a good movie.
Last edited by Angry-Calligar; June 13, 2012 at 02:35pm.
"everyone always talks about how big and scary snakemen are... well calligars eat people too!"
Just saw Prometheus again and it was even better the second time. Hell, I noticed a lot of things I did not notice before, which made it even better.
This movie was very good. There were a few scenes that were not explained very well. The end climax of the movie was hardly a climax and seemed rushed. I think the end where the engineer dies and shows us the first xenomorph could have been eliminated altogether... There's no reason why they had to rush this... In this case, the more that's left to speculation the better.
I was hoping that this movie would directly proceed "Alien", but clearly it didn't. Unless this planet is LV-426 and not LV-223 like they thought. Perhaps the ship Dr. Shaw escaped in is the ship that we see at the begining of "Alien". At any rate, they left it open for a sequel. And if they were on LV-223 and she escaped to LV-426, That moon also isn't the home planet of the engineers.
That wasn't the first Xenomorph, there is a image of a xenomorph ingraved on the wall behind the stone face in the room with the black ooze. Besides the movie is about the engineers so I wouldn't mind seeing or not seeing any more Xenomorphs as long i enjoy the movies, I am okay.
Also the there are other ships on the planet that we didn't see and we haven't seen there home world yet. Someone could come to the planet and encounter the new/old Xenomorph and use one of the other ships to try to escape.
The only problem that I had was the scale of the engineers, in Alien the one they found was a lot bigger then the ones in this movie unless the one in Alien was a female of there species or another type of there kind.
Last edited by Dragon78; June 14, 2012 at 10:02am.
Originally Fifield was supposed to be more xenomorph then zombie, you can see it in the trailer and a few stills from an aborted different end to the movie. When he is fighting with them in the trailer sequence you can see claws in his hands and his arms are longer.
There is also a still pic with him in costume and his head clearly looks like a hybrid human/xenomorph. Scott changed it I guess to not spoil the scene at the end which pretty much shows where things are headed
Also the Blu-Ray is being mastered and produced by the same person behind the recent Aliens BD Boxed set and he said there will be as many extras including the original script so people can see where the film was going to go before it was tweaked
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Yeah upon re-watching Alien this is probably the only issue I have with Prometheus, the Engineers in Alien are gigantic compared to humans but in Prometheus David jumped right into their chairs
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Another disturbing implication I just thought of.
The Engineers appear to be designing the Xenomorphs as some kind of bio-weapon.
They appear to have engineered humans as the hosts for them.
So what is out there that is so bad-ass that they have to turn Xenomorphs loose against it to kill it?
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The Predators
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they are at least 7-8' tall. maybe these are little people engineers?!?!?Yeah upon re-watching Alien this is probably the only issue I have with Prometheus, the Engineers in Alien are gigantic compared to humans but in Prometheus David jumped right into their chairs
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^ pretty much this.
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