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Thread: Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 068 Discussion!

  1. #51
    Heroic Warrior kup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    See, I just have a really hard time believing that. People really want to demonize this guy as some sort of ego-crazed fan-hater who just wants to get his way, no matter what the cost. Maybe he is, I don't know him at all personally. But sometimes I read comments like that and can't help but think "Seriously?"
    I had nothing against the guy until I started reading his post and kept coming off as someone 'less than professional' - I could go harsher but I could get banned

    I am pretty sure that much of the negativity against Scott is mostly sparked by his very own attitude.

    Anyways, I have a hard time thinking of Spector as anything more than a personal ego trip for the Brand Manager using his position to make it happen regardless of what other people think or want. That alone speaks a lot about the attitude of the man.
    Last edited by kup; January 2, 2012 at 08:50pm.

  2. #52
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kup View Post
    I had nothing against the guy until I started reading his post and kept coming off as something 'less than professional' - I could go harsher but I could get banned

    I am pretty sure that much of the negativity against Scott is mostly sparked by his very own attitude.
    And how he handles some of the quality control mishaps last year. I think that alone really turned some fans who were mostly supportive of Mattel into more cynical fans.

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  3. #53
    ORGER of the North™ Tuukka's Avatar
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    The magic word is brand manager. Unfortunately everybody can't be in that position so yes life isn't fair. Heck many of us might try to do something similar in his position. Is it wise? Well that's a different thing, but I'm sure mr. Scott is happy cause he will have a bunch of Spectors (his figure) load somewhere (own shelf) after the sale date.

    [spoiler alert!]

    It's not that desired design.

    [/spoiler alert!]



    ps. Mr. Staples, please don't pull that poor cat's tail so often. It's heartbreaking!
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  4. #54
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuukka View Post
    ps. Mr. Staples, please don't pull that poor cat's tail so often. It's heartbreaking!



  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Who you kidding? Valor was the main character in Volume 4 of the 200x comic!

    He knows the score! He gets the women! And he kills the bad guys! But they soon realized... they just ****ed with the wrong Orger!
    Valor!
    Dangit, that's actually sounding kinda cool . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    Putting aside the fact that I'm not too keen on the color scheme for Tallstar and that she's missing her pants and waist extension, the construction of her leotard-like outfit isn't too dissimilar from someone like Filmation Glimmer & Angella. What do you think of those characters?
    To be honest, I'm kinda the wrong person to ask.
    But, since you asked . . .

    As I wouldn't claim to be a huge PoP fan, there isn't the instant recognition that comes with all the characters. Very generally speaking they tend to blend together into one pastel-y whole for me unfortunately, and aside from some obvious costume details (bee wings, peacock feathers, etc) there isn't enough to distinguish most of them from one another in my mind.

    I think Glimmer and Angella are more recognizable from the toon and the roles they played, so that goes a long way, but I also feel their designs and color palettes are more iconic and appealing as well compared to many of the other PoP characters.

    To be even more brutally honest, I don't think I'd prioritize hardly any PoP figures as I just don't see them having the individual appeal that so many others do. As a GROUP, I do think they'll look awesome once all of them are released.

    And further complicating things, because these characters were never intended to be action figures, it's inherently challenging to make them compelling action figures without shaking up the designs quite a bit and disappointing a lot of fans.

    I hear what you're saying about the clone-y leotard look, but unfortunately in a line with such self-imposed limited tooling I don't see that there are many options.

    As Penny said in this episode, for a variety of reasons I just think it was way too soon for the Star Sisters.
    In fact I think they've jumped the gun on several things with this line that would've benefited from holding off.
    Tytus is a big one IMO, but the Star Sisters too.
    Who knows how many new tools might be available 2-3 years down the road to make for more interesting figures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skystalker View Post
    He should get the blame.
    But he doesn't really take it though, does he?
    The fans, the factory, reviewers, Digital River, the 4H, it always seems to be someone else's fault.

    But it is one thing for people to say Spector is a bad design but another to say Scott is putting him in the line as a deliberate "screw you" to the fans. Again, not saying that is your perspective, but that is the flavor I get from some people who are doing the criticizing.
    All of that is just anger talking. While I personally don't share in the anger thing with regard to anything MotU, I can definitely understand it. And if Scott truly were the über-fan he'd like us to believe he is, then he would understand how easily passion can turn to frustration and anger, and he'd be way more sensitive to it, and disarm it at every turn possible. Instead, he kinda does the opposite.

    The line between present and history is a false one.
    I agree with this in principle, but not when it's applied to an anniversary like this. And especially when MOTUC has largely been rehashes (albeit beautifully executed for the most part) I fail to see how the last 3 years can really be given all that much importance. I mean, in a lot of ways the line itself already IS a celebration of the 30th, so a separate designation is a little redundant if you think about it.

    But however you look at it, I can't possibly be convinced that people who are little more than recreating something already made decades ago should be on equal or higher footing than those who originally created it.

    it just feeds the fires of those who think some people have a personal vendetta against Scott simply because he is brand manager and they are not.
    Who around here really wants to be the MotU Brand Manager?

    Has anyone really put that out there?
    I doubt hardly anyone would really want that job, so I don't buy the jealousy argument.

    It's more that they just don't want anyone messing up something that they love, and that they feel a sense of ownership towards. That's maybe what's more at issue. I mean Mattel essentially abandoned MotU, and did so several times. The only ones who have kept it alive have been the fans, so that sense of ownership is only natural.

    And anything (fair or not, intentional or not) that portrays Scott as being in it for himself above the fans is NOT going to sit well with people.

    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    See, I just have a really hard time believing that. People really want to demonize this guy as some sort of ego-crazed fan-hater who just wants to get his way, no matter what the cost.
    Like most things, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

    I don't think he hates fans or is ego-crazed. I do think he (frequently) credits himself with way more than he is due, and it's clear that he feels he unquestionably deserves his own figures in a line that wouldn't exist if it weren't for his efforts, what a great guy, blablablah.

    And absent everything else we're talking about, that's just, y'know, not cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    If John Erwin and Alan Oppenheimer were guested on Roast Gooble Dinner in character and speaking with the hosts on various MOTU topics. Val, Penny, Dan and Eamon along with He-Man and Skeletor!
    I'd totally listen to that! Where's the Kickstarter page for this?

  6. #56
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    See, I just have a really hard time believing that. People really want to demonize this guy as some sort of ego-crazed fan-hater who just wants to get his way, no matter what the cost. Maybe he is, I don't know him at all personally. But sometimes I read comments like that and can't help but think "Seriously?"
    But that's the problem with anyone accusing fans of hating or demonizing Scott Neitlich and judging everythign he does and says by this hate.
    It's a false argument, it's completely illogic.
    If people have issues with him, is because of what he does and say, not the other way around. Why should anyone hate him? It isn't like he's an evil vampire or something. If a person acts in a way that displease fans big time, that's the issue.
    Failing to see why people are upset and blaming fans for being upset without reasons is very illogical.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skystalker View Post
    The line between present and history is a false one. We have 30 years of MOTU that includes MOTUC, its bios, characters, and so on. Scott and Terry have been integral to that and thus MOTU's history. I have no interest in defending every decision Scott has made, but when people blow him off as not having made a real contribution simply because he has only been involved for a few years, it just feeds the fires of those who think some people have a personal vendetta against Scott simply because he is brand manager and they are not.
    Allow me to just laugh again to this comment. This is another false belief I kept reading on the forum. People can just be displeased by sigle action/statement/behaviours. Jealousy is not necessarily part of that.
    I know some think I have a personal vendetta agenda because he's the brand manager and I'm not.
    That is simply foolish to think. I don't want to be a brand manager, I never wanted to be brand manager. I'm a toy designer. I'd want to contribute in a creative role, not in a managing one.

    Of course Scott has not made the kind of contribution Scott or Taylor has, but at the end of the day, we have MOTUC because he advocates for the line. Yes the 4H sculpted the He-Man prototype, yes they are awesome artists, yes this line would not be what it is without them. But if Scott were not there, who would have been able to convince Matty to try the line again since it tanked at retail the last time?
    Scott has done a lot of good things for the brand.
    But he wasn't the only one convinving Mattel management (not Matty, Mattycollector is the site Scott created to distribuite collectors line, he didn't need to "convince Matty"
    But he wasn't the only one. He's the only one most people know by name, and that receive credit for it. But other people were vital to the creation of MOTUC as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skystalker View Post
    I am not against Spector and am actually glad that Scott is getting to produce a figure he designed. He gets enough grief from people who think every move he makes is a deliberate attempt to "kill teh line."
    Another illogical argument.
    No one believes he's trying to kill the line.
    Why should he? It's is job, and his passion, why should he tries to kill the line?
    The problem many see is that he seems to have lost perspective on what is better for the brand and what is just his personal likes and agenda.

    Geoff has nothing to do with MOTU's history, but this is not true of Scott or Terry. Both Scott and Terry have been working on the line for the past few years, which are part of the 30 years of MOTU. Both men have contributed to figure design, determining additional accessories, bios, and much more. Even if you don't like anything they have done, they are now as much a part of MOTU's history as the 4H, for example. I would say they are as much a part of the history as Taylor and Sweet, but those founding fathers deserve a special place, IMHO.
    These are BOLD statements.
    And honestly, I'd be more willing to listen to your arguments if you were more informed, but looks like you're not.
    You keep mentioning Scott and Terry, but it clearly shows you're not aware of what roles they have and what other people were involved.
    And this is absolutely with all due respect to Terry and Scott, I'm just tryign to put everything in the right perspective for you:
    Terry Higuchi is ONE of the designers that work internally at Mattel as the interface between the design team for MOTU and the 4H.
    But he isn't the only one. At first it was Terry, then there was Bill Benecke, then Terry again and now it's Ruben Martinez. And with them, there were other people working on the enginereeing of the products, plus the packaging designers etc.

    All the desings are made by the 4H. Terry and Bill worked on the 4H desings. They discuss additional accessories, which sometimes are designed internally (Bill designed Clawful's shield), sometimes they are designed by the 4H )Leech's capture net) Scott has no role in the design process. If for you suggesting or requesting an accessory is being a designer, you just don't know what a designer's job is.

    And then, comparing their role to Taylor and Mayer (and Sweet) is way out of reality. Part of the history, yes, like everyone involved in MOTU somehow, form Stan Sakai to me. But not as important as Mark and Ted.
    Those guys invented MOTU. Mark and Ted defined what we see as MOTU.
    I'm sure even Scott, Terry, Bill and Ruben would't like to be compared to Mark and Ted.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post

    Allow me to just laugh again to this comment. This is another false belief I kept reading on the forum. People can just be displeased by sigle action/statement/behaviours. Jealousy is not necessarily part of that.
    I know some think I have a personal vendetta agenda because he's the brand manager and I'm not.
    That is simply foolish to think. I don't want to be a brand manager, I never wanted to be brand manager. I'm a toy designer. I'd want to contribute in a creative role, not in a managing one.


    Scott has done a lot of good things for the brand.
    But he wasn't the only one convinving Mattel management (not Matty, Mattycollector is the site Scott created to distribuite collectors line, he didn't need to "convince Matty"
    But he wasn't the only one. He's the only one most people know by name, and that receive credit for it. But other people were vital to the creation of MOTUC as well.


    Another illogical argument.
    No one believes he's trying to kill the line.
    Why should he? It's is job, and his passion, why should he tries to kill the line?
    The problem many see is that he seems to have lost perspective on what is better for the brand and what is just his personal likes and agenda.


    These are BOLD statements.
    And honestly, I'd be more willing to listen to your arguments if you were more informed, but looks like you're not.
    You keep mentioning Scott and Terry, but it clearly shows you're not aware of what roles they have and what other people were involved.
    And this is absolutely with all due respect to Terry and Scott, I'm just tryign to put everything in the right perspective for you:
    Terry Higuchi is ONE of the designers that work internally at Mattel as the interface between the design team for MOTU and the 4H.
    But he isn't the only one. At first it was Terry, then there was Bill Benecke, then Terry again and now it's Ruben Martinez. And with them, there were other people working on the enginereeing of the products, plus the packaging designers etc.

    All the desings are made by the 4H. Terry and Bill worked on the 4H desings. They discuss additional accessories, which sometimes are designed internally (Bill designed Clawful's shield), sometimes they are designed by the 4H )Leech's capture net) Scott has no role in the design process. If for you suggesting or requesting an accessory is being a designer, you just don't know what a designer's job is.

    And then, comparing their role to Taylor and Mayer (and Sweet) is way out of reality. Part of the history, yes, like everyone involved in MOTU somehow, form Stan Sakai to me. But not as important as Mark and Ted.
    Those guys invented MOTU. Mark and Ted defined what we see as MOTU.
    I'm sure even Scott, Terry, Bill and Ruben would't like to be compared to Mark and Ted.
    Emiliano,

    I would never include you in those who seem to have a vendetta against Scott. Your comments are always well thought out and professional. I am speaking of others (no one in particular, just the flavor I get from some comments) who seem to read sinister motives into everything Scott does.

    Clearly, Scott has not helped himself with many of his comments. If I were brand manager, I would try to be as involved with the community as he is, but I would also hope that I would know when to say nothing. Sometimes his comments add fuel to fires that are already starting to burn out.

    I didn't mean to suggest the present team is as important to MOTU history as the founding fathers of the line, so perhaps I should have stated my original point better. My only point was that Scott and others must now be considered part of the line's history, for better or for worse.

    And, thank you for otherwise setting me straight!
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  8. #58
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skystalker View Post
    Emiliano,
    I would never include you in those who seem to have a vendetta against Scott. Your comments are always well thought out and professional. I am speaking of others (no one in particular, just the flavor I get from some comments) who seem to read sinister motives into everything Scott does.
    It's okay, but I still don't see anyone reading sinister motives into what Scott Neitilich does.
    People just complain about what he does, it's illogical to read "sinister motives" in people complaints

    I didn't mean to suggest the present team is as important to MOTU history as the founding fathers of the line, so perhaps I should have stated my original point better. My only point was that Scott and others must now be considered part of the line's history, for better or for worse
    .
    All people that worked on MOTU are part of the line's history of course. I don't think anyone is trying to deny that, just trying to make sure all comparisons are fair
    The weights of these contributions will probably be judged better by posterity

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    All people that worked on MOTU are part of the line's history of course. I don't think anyone is trying to deny that, just trying to make sure all comparisons are fair
    The weights of these contributions will probably be judged better by posterity
    That, my friend, is indisputable!
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  10. #60
    Songster's Understudy SUPERFANben's Avatar
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    If The Mighty Spector's bio says, "Songster's roadie and guitar tech" I'm cool with him. Great show as always. Keep 'em coming Val!
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  11. #61
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    Why is Spector's symbol the only one under any scrutiny?

    Is He-Man a Teutonic Knight or a Nazi since he has an iron cross on his armor? No, he's not. It's never even been referenced. He has no connection to Germany or the Knights at all since he's not from Earth, and Marlena being from there doesn't count since the Power Sword doesn't originate from Earth either. So why does he have it?

    Or how 'bout Webstor's orange square thingy? I mean, what? Is it a throwing star? Then shouldn't it be on Ninjor's outfit since it would actually fit his design. If it's supposed to be a web, it's a crappily designed one and if anything it should be red to match his eyes and look slightly better with the rest of his color palatte. It matches nothing on his design besides his gun, which also doesn't match anything about his design or character. Why the heck does a dark blue spider mutant thing with darker blue armor and shin guards have a bright orange laser gun and bright orange square thingy on his armor? As far as I can tell... just because. It's a decoration and nothing more.

    But, nope. Only Spector gets mentioned.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Weed View Post
    Why is Spector's symbol the only one under any scrutiny?

    Is He-Man a Teutonic Knight or a Nazi since he has an iron cross on his armor? No, he's not. It's never even been referenced. He has no connection to Germany or the Knights at all since he's not from Earth, and Marlena being from there doesn't count since the Power Sword doesn't originate from Earth either. So why does he have it?

    Or how 'bout Webstor's orange square thingy? I mean, what? Is it a throwing star? Then shouldn't it be on Ninjor's outfit since it would actually fit his design. If it's supposed to be a web, it's a crappily designed one and if anything it should be red to match his eyes and look slightly better with the rest of his color palatte. It matches nothing on his design besides his gun, which also doesn't match anything about his design or character. Why the heck does a dark blue spider mutant thing with darker blue armor and shin guards have a bright orange laser gun and bright orange square thingy on his armor? As far as I can tell... just because. It's a decoration and nothing more.

    But, nope. Only Spector gets mentioned.

    You make a good point there.

  13. #63
    Fake Casting Agent CocoaSmooth's Avatar
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    He-Man's Symbols has been contraversial for years and has been discussed many times during the 2002 years on these forums. Its an old discussion that few really care for at the moment. Sadly for you it has become an Iconic symbol for the children of the 80's who probably didn't know anything about Nazi's or religious implications. We grew up just accepting it as the symbol he-man wears without looking too much into it. Now us children from the 80s are all grown up and I am quite sure looking at MOTU with adult eyes instead of children's eyes. MOTUC has become an adult collectors line and IMO I don't think that a blatant and not inadvertant symbol of a spade makes sense with MOTU in general. Again beauty is in the ye of the beholder and I find Spectors symbol to be too close to home. He looks really out of place and has a power that is actually more powerful than he-man... I agree with Penny Dreadful in that Spector was a rejected design. Scott in my mind kinda abused his influence by shoving a failed design in MOTUC.
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  14. #64
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    The iron cross symbol is not invented by the Nazis! It was abused by them...

    But I also see a difference between He-Man's symbol and the spade, which reminds me more at Earth...
    Last edited by Berserker79; January 6, 2012 at 05:21am.

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    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Weed View Post
    Why is Spector's symbol the only one under any scrutiny?
    .....
    But, nope. Only Spector gets mentioned.
    Because the discussion is about spector?

  16. #66
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Weed View Post
    Why is Spector's symbol the only one under any scrutiny?

    Is He-Man a Teutonic Knight or a Nazi since he has an iron cross on his armor? No, he's not. It's never even been referenced. He has no connection to Germany or the Knights at all since he's not from Earth, and Marlena being from there doesn't count since the Power Sword doesn't originate from Earth either. So why does he have it?

    Or how 'bout Webstor's orange square thingy? I mean, what? Is it a throwing star? Then shouldn't it be on Ninjor's outfit since it would actually fit his design. If it's supposed to be a web, it's a crappily designed one and if anything it should be red to match his eyes and look slightly better with the rest of his color palatte. It matches nothing on his design besides his gun, which also doesn't match anything about his design or character. Why the heck does a dark blue spider mutant thing with darker blue armor and shin guards have a bright orange laser gun and bright orange square thingy on his armor? As far as I can tell... just because. It's a decoration and nothing more.

    But, nope. Only Spector gets mentioned.
    Bow has Spector beat. Bow's heart symbol was under so much scrutiny that it's switchable on the figure.

    There was also He-Man's 200X "asterix" symbol vs his regular symbol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Weed View Post
    Why is Spector's symbol the only one under any scrutiny?

    Is He-Man a Teutonic Knight or a Nazi since he has an iron cross on his armor? No, he's not. It's never even been referenced. He has no connection to Germany or the Knights at all since he's not from Earth, and Marlena being from there doesn't count since the Power Sword doesn't originate from Earth either. So why does he have it?

    Or how 'bout Webstor's orange square thingy? I mean, what? Is it a throwing star? Then shouldn't it be on Ninjor's outfit since it would actually fit his design. If it's supposed to be a web, it's a crappily designed one and if anything it should be red to match his eyes and look slightly better with the rest of his color palatte. It matches nothing on his design besides his gun, which also doesn't match anything about his design or character. Why the heck does a dark blue spider mutant thing with darker blue armor and shin guards have a bright orange laser gun and bright orange square thingy on his armor? As far as I can tell... just because. It's a decoration and nothing more.

    But, nope. Only Spector gets mentioned.
    This is one of the reasons I maintain that if Spector had been released as one of the later figures in the 1980s, he would be accepted today. Perhaps with not as many fans, but he would be accepted. Unless I am mistaken, the fandom in general accepts designs like Rotar and Twistoid, as well as the Meteorbs. There is even a begrudging willingness to accept the NA designs, which look nothing like the original series of figures. Spector suffers not only from having a design that is not very popular but also from the fact that he has been introduced today. Nostalgia for the past, I think, colors the way we view everything. Maybe Scott would have been a bit wiser to have considered that more when he submitted Spector's design. At the end of the day, however, I'm sure he thought the figure would go over well, or at least that it would not have created such an outcry.

    Having said that, I do agree that the spade is a bit jarring in terms of the rest of the design itself, whether you like the design or not. Perhaps it will be explained in the bios. In any case, I think Val was right to suggest that Spector might have gone over better had he had a symbol like an hourglass on his chest. Even the design than mimics the ring that came with Trap Jaw and Tri-Klops would be better.

    Personally, I will say that I think Spector looks just fine, especially if he could be considered a NA character. However, if he ends up playing a critical role in the overall storyline, that would be bad and very unwise. The power of time-travel is indeed strong, so I can see why so many are worried about this. Maybe it is more limited than we think. I hope so. I am indifferent to the bios in most cases, but it would look very bad to the fandom if Spector turns out to be someone who saves the day in any significant sense. That would cause a small riot, and, I think, justifiably so. I guess we'll know in a few months or so.
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  18. #68
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    awesome show as ever guys! ... loved this one ... ...

    i basically agree with everything you guys said (really) ... val in particular, your opening summary was fantastic ... and also, penny - you hit the nail right on the head reference the original create-a-character contest ...

    i've voiced my opinions on the mighty spector in the main discussion thread, so i don't feel the need to repeat them here ... all in all, awesome episode and very agreeable from my point of view ...
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Weed View Post
    Why is Spector's symbol the only one under any scrutiny?

    Is He-Man a Teutonic Knight or a Nazi since he has an iron cross on his armor? No, he's not. It's never even been referenced. He has no connection to Germany or the Knights at all since he's not from Earth, and Marlena being from there doesn't count since the Power Sword doesn't originate from Earth either. So why does he have it?

    Or how 'bout Webstor's orange square thingy? I mean, what? Is it a throwing star? Then shouldn't it be on Ninjor's outfit since it would actually fit his design. If it's supposed to be a web, it's a crappily designed one and if anything it should be red to match his eyes and look slightly better with the rest of his color palatte. It matches nothing on his design besides his gun, which also doesn't match anything about his design or character. Why the heck does a dark blue spider mutant thing with darker blue armor and shin guards have a bright orange laser gun and bright orange square thingy on his armor? As far as I can tell... just because. It's a decoration and nothing more.

    But, nope. Only Spector gets mentioned.
    On He-Man's cross: It has caused controversy before. There's no question about it. He-Man is neither a Nazi nor a Templar knight. We don't know the reasons of why he has a cross (or at least I am clueless about it), but some of the attributes given to the Cross Patée must have been positive. The Iron Cross, before Hitler screwed it over, was given for acts of heroism, bravery, or leadership...
    Who is the best example of those qualities in MOTU? If those were the reasons why he has the cross, then it makes sense...

    On Webstor's insignia: It's similar to the pattern on Black Widow Spiders. It makes sense: Webstor, as Spider-Like character with a Spider-themed insignia.

    The Ace of Spades makes no sense on Spector... unless he's a harbinger of Death... Or secretly Bow's Rival...
    Last edited by DO4M; January 6, 2012 at 02:01pm.
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    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DO4M View Post
    On He-Man's cross: It has caused controversy before. There's no question about it. He-Man is neither a Nazi nor a Templar knight. We don't know the reasons of why he has a cross (or at least I am clueless about it), but some of the attributes given to the Cross Patée. The Iron Cross, before Hitler screwed it over, was given for acts of heroism, bravery, or leadership...
    Who is the best example of those qualities in MOTU? If those were the reasons why he has the cross, then it makes sense...

    On Webstor's insignia: It's similar to the pattern on Black Widow Spiders. It makes sense: Webstor, as Spider-Like character with a Spider-themed insignia.
    Right. I mean look if someone likes Spector's design, thats fine. but looking at PROFESSIONALLY designed MOTU figures you can see rhyme and reason to the designs, with Spector you don't. that's the biggest issue, it's not that he has a spade symbol it's that the spade symbol doesn't fit ANYTHING. Scott himself said "I just thought it looked cool" and he admitted that was one thing he insisted stayed, inferring that the professional designers tried to convince him to change it.

    if you dissect anything you can question it's need, but when something is designed by professionals, they can be explained away quite easily.
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    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoaSmooth View Post
    Sadly for you it has become an Iconic symbol for the children of the 80's who probably didn't know anything about Nazi's or religious implications. We grew up just accepting it as the symbol he-man wears without looking too much into it. Now us children from the 80s are all grown up and I am quite sure looking at MOTU with adult eyes instead of children's eyes.
    Born in '82 and still have every figure that I had back then, which is about 90% of them. Just because I can pick apart the old figures as well as the new figures doesn't mean I didn't grow up with them. Don't assume that because I don't make 300 posts a day on this site that I don't know just as much as everybody else does.

    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    but when something is designed by professionals, they can be explained away quite easily.
    And now Scott's not a professional? Super...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kup View Post
    I am pretty sure that much of the negativity against Scott is mostly sparked by his very own attitude.
    I agree. Most of us only know him from the boards and I don't see how you can have 'personal' grudge against someone you have never encountered or spoken to in real life. The way I percieve TG is based entirely on what he says on this forum or on Mattycollector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    Who around here really wants to be the MotU Brand Manager?

    Has anyone really put that out there?
    I doubt hardly anyone would really want that job, so I don't buy the jealousy argument.
    I don't get that either. If I would envy anyone working (or having worked) on MOTU it would be Emiliano or the Horsemen. Those guys have real talent. Who wants to be a suit like Scott ? Not even Scott himself, gathering from his attempts to get involved on the creative side.
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    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Weed View Post

    And now Scott's not a professional? Super...
    Not a professional writer, artist or designer. he's a manager by profession, not an artist.
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    Heroic Warrior DO4M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Weed View Post
    And now Scott's not a professional? Super...
    Well, he is NOT a Professional Toy Designer. Yes, he also did that design "when he was a kid" and all that. SO that means that he was not a Professional anything when he originally did it. Had he allowed some changes by Professional Designers, maybe Spector would have been liked a bit better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Weed View Post
    Born in '82 and still have every figure that I had back then, which is about 90% of them. Just because I can pick apart the old figures as well as the new figures doesn't mean I didn't grow up with them. Don't assume that because I don't make 300 posts a day on this site that I don't know just as much as everybody else does.
    , I assumed that it you didn't know that the Cross on He-Man was an old a tired argument on the boards because you brought it up. I don't know how old you are I imagine that you were an 80s kid because I don't know anyone who collects MOTUC that isn't. I did assume however that you were relatively new to the forums because of your join date. I'm almost 9 years in. I have seen and participated in many of the most controversial threads throughout the years and the one thing I know in those 9 years of being here is I sound more like an ass as the years go by.
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