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Thread: Star Sisters are Sold Out!

  1. #76
    Heroic Warrior EldestSon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    I love how whenever a PoP figure sells out, it must have been pulled. I guess they pulled Adora at 27 minutes, She-Ra at 18 minutes, Bow at 54 minutes and Catra at 1 day, 6 hours.

    If they DID pull the Star Sisters, why not leave them up for, at least, the FIVE DAYS Demo-Man was on sale for?

    EDIT: I'm not trying to offend or upset anyone with this post. This is just me being exasperated at the constant belittling PoP gets with regards to sellouts, but other MOTUC stuff doesn't seem to get. You don't see many people talking about the 14 days Hurricane Hordak took to sell out in 2011...
    i guess you aren't confused about catra being pop any longer.

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...ut-PoP-in-2012

  2. #77
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loo-Kee View Post
    I hope I cleared things up here and just hope that each and everyone one of us gets the characters that he or she has been looking to get for a very long time.
    This is a nice sentiment that although should go without saying, I suppose needs to be said from time to time.

    Me and my Gwildor-loving compadres certainly appreciate it.

    But that said, I'll be the first to admit that I would see nothing particularly wrong with MOTUC running its natural course and never being able to get to Gwildor. Sure, I'd be slightly bummed, but that's all.

    Everyone just needs to see the bigger picture sometimes.
    With such a niche line like MOTUC, the needs of the many have to outweigh the whims of the few.

  3. #78
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbomb23 View Post
    So you want to compare the Star Sisters to Evil Lyn??? Sorry she is a main character who I would expect to see variants of I really don't see the demand needed for variants of these from the masses..
    Why not? This is a new toy line that doesn't necessarily have to follow what was done in previous incarnations and it hasn't in many cases. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've seen some folks use that same logic as the core basis of their point-of-view in other discussions to explain why certain decisions were justified.

    Evil-Lyn and other well-known characters are only A-List characters because somewhere along the line someone decided to elevate their status/make them a focus in some form of media. I think it would be pretty neat for this to happen with some of the more "obscure" POP gals, to sort of establish them for later use, which is a smart move in my opinion.

    The Star Sisters are pretty unique characters in that, much like King Grayskull, King Hssss, Hordak etc. they are ancients who could potential play a pivotal role in the She-Ra saga.

    And others need to stop drinking the Star Sisters sold out kool-aid. I'm glad you and others are happy about the Star Sisters, but the fact they sold out in less time than other figures is the problem I and others have. Great they sold out, but again they were probably the least available figure/item available for day of sale items ever! As Mattel has stated product available outside of the subscription will be vastly reduced and very limited, so this limited stock took nearly 3 days to sell out, we'll have a better gage moving forward with the rest of the 2012 to see how fast other more desireable figures sell out. These figures just came out and (a few) people are already asking for variants? These characters are not desired by the masses and now they are a part of the line which is cool, but we should'nt get variants of these for 10-15 years if at all and not before more popular characters have figures and (multiple) variants 1st. These just aren't that popular.
    It's true it was said that Star Sisters would have lower day-of stock, but yesterday Scott also mentioned (or rather stressed) how very limited/conservative they were with the Wind Raider production. There's no way to know which was lower of the two. Mattel is viewing the Star Sisters as a success...so..

    npbaity I will get to your post soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by npbaity View Post
    That is great to hear, but until a Prototype reveal (which admittedly COULD HAPPEN in as little as a few weeks, but I wouldn't stake my life on it on the heels of Battleground Evil-Lyn's release), it's still just talk - talk that has been going on since yellow Evil-Lyn's reveal in Dec. 2009 & many fans began seriously pursuing the possibility of a 200X Evil-Lyn. Even with more than 2 years of "Talk" and the release of what is essentially a "Placeholder" Variant/Repaint (which I love despite the fact that it's the 4th release of the full Teela body sculpt with a unique paint job and different head and/or accessory), this Figure has yet to appear. All the words in the world do not equal a single action.
    I'm going to have to disagree that 200X Evil-Lyn fans are in exactly the same boat as the folks who have been clamoring for the toy versions of the Star Sisters since the start of the line.

    The 200X Evil-Lyn fans are in a much better place in terms of responses and positivity, and despite the fact that they haven't received their preferred version of her as of yet, there was at least an almost immediate explanation attached from the 4H as to why they thought it wise not to do that version at that particular moment, whereas we got no communication for nearly 6 months after Star Sisters were revealed.

    Honestly, I don't see it as being empty words in the case of Lynny. The approach to dealing with the two groups of fans has been so very different, that I don't think any parallels can be drawn - at least not in the way that you're describing.

    Such responses have been received in regard to Flocked Panthor, Single Carded & Bio-ed Prince Adam & Cringer as regular releases rather than Convention Exclusives, a full set of Weapons Rack Weapons in the Gray Weathered Color and several other "Non-POP" Items so I hardly see this statement as a slight to POP Fans or discriminatory in any way.
    I think the main difference would be that, in many of these cases, folks have not been as consistent about keeping the issue alive. Some requests started off strong but then really kind of faded with time.
    Last edited by Tallstar; January 20, 2012 at 07:04pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  4. #79
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    The approach to dealing with the two groups of fans has been so very different, that I don't think any parallels can be drawn - at least not in the way that you're describing.
    Why the need to split fans into groups?

    It should be one group: "MotU Fans"

    And then you have really popular characters on one hand (Evil-Lyn).
    And very obscure characters on the other (Star Sisters).

    Simple as that, IMO.
    I don't think there's any conspiracy going on . . .

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    npbaity I will get to your post soon.



    I'm going to have to disagree that 200X Evil-Lyn fans are in exactly the same boat as the folks who have been clamoring for the toy versions of the Star Sisters since the start of the line.

    The 200X Evil-Lyn fans are in a much better place in terms of responses and positivity, and despite the fact that they haven't received their preferred version of her as of yet, there was at least an almost immediate explanation attached from the 4H as to why they thought it wise not to do that version at that particular moment, whereas we got no communication for nearly 6 months after Star Sisters were revealed.

    Honestly, I don't see it as being empty words in the case of Lynny. The approach to dealing with the two groups of fans has been so very different, that I don't think any parallels can be drawn - at least not in the way that you're describing.
    I completely understand where you're coming from & I support your endeavor, but allow me to respond by saying:

    1) At the start of the line when there was not yet Product in hand & only our wildest dreams to be fulfilled, I recall many fans from all stripes of MOTU-Dom speaking openly with much optimism about what they would like to see released. I'm quite sure there were "200X" Fans speaking of their desire for Evil-Lyn in that Deco/Design. While I was (& continue to be) quite happy to receive ANY Evil-Lyn at any time, I will confess that a "200X" Evil-Lyn that wasn't 95% Repainted Teela would have been my ultimate choice for the first release. Clearly I lost on that, but I'm still just as happy as I can be!

    {This brings to mind another example of how Mattel/4H are not playing favorites among "Factions". Sticking with our "200X" Evil-Lyn Example without considering anyone's Beginning Of The Line Desires, fans wanting that Figure have been waiting over 2 years (complete with Mattel's "hints", real or imagined, of addressing this fan request) since Yellow Evil-Lyn was revealed for concrete evidence that it would be released. We have yet to see the Figure, which would be the only real proof that such a thing is in fact in the works.
    Compare that to how "POP" fans were treated by Mattel/4H in regard to She-Ra. Upon getting the first She-Ra in hand in June 2010, many fans expressed concerns over the Mask/Tiara (Hole In The Head) & Articulation Executions of the Figure. Mattel/4H listened & responded by putting She-Ra 2.0 (Bubble Power She-Ra) in the hands of fans in Nov. 2011.
    Couple that example with the fact that among at least 4 different releases (First + 3 Reissues, or at least that's how they've sold it to us) and 1 Variant/Version, I can't pick up any 2 Skeletor Figures that have consistant quality Paint Apps on the Face, even if both Figures came from the same batch, an issue that goes all the way back to Jan. 2009, Month 2 of the line as we know it today!
    Now, based upon those facts alone, would that make it fair to claim that Mattel is favoring "POP" females over "200X" Designs or "Vintage MOTU"? No, of course not. That's just the way that things have happened, without rhyme, reason or agenda.}

    And 2. To be fair, "200X" Evil-Lyn was your example, not mine. I was simply inquiring about & responding to your usage of her in the context of this Star Sisters Variant discussion across 2 or 3 different threads.

    You brought her to this party. I just danced with her while she was here!



    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    I think the main difference would be that, in many of these cases, folks have not been as consistent about keeping the issue alive. Some requests started off strong but then really kind of faded with time.
    Well, we can't ALL be as nobly tenaciuos & persistent as you, now can we?!

    Keep chasing after what you want, Tallstar!! I'm right there with you all the way!

    Long Live MOTU!!!!
    Now & Forever!!!!

  6. #81
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    After the whole deal with the Wind Raider we can’t even read anything into a relatively quick sell out anymore.

  7. #82
    USF Bull chuc98's Avatar
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    It's great to see them sell out! After getting them today, I can honestly say they're a great addition to the PoP ranks!
    200X fan? Classic fan? What does that mean? I'm a MotU fan!!!

  8. #83
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    npbaity: It's hard for me to articulate my stance, mostly because the explanation requires me to break down certain Mattel decisions/actions, piece-by-piece, and to examine the intentions behind them.

    That can get really involved and convoluted, especially if I'm trying to tackle too many areas at once to try to show the string of events that led us to an end result. This process of evaluation is something that's very automatic/natural for me, even though occasionally I may not immediately understand why I feel the way that I do.

    If you've followed my posts for a lengthy stretch of time, you'll notice that a lot of the issues that I have with Mattel's treatment of certain fans or factions is centered around the idea that they sometimes convey misleading notions (i.e. along the lines of: "We're making POP figures, therefore we're absolved of any wrong-doing") to pacify fans and simultaneously distract the fan base away from points that may not always be at surface level to the bulk of the members here. In some cases I don't believe it's intentional, but still there nonetheless.

    I'll use Bubble Power She-Ra as an example...

    Some folks didn't quite understand why a group of us toy-based fans were still unhappy with Mattel and doubting their intentions after getting the Bubble Power-specific elements with that figure. It was kinda like: "How can you still be disappointed with Mattel after getting major toy-line representation?"

    I'll try to explain as best as I can.

    If you've been listening to the Roast Gooble episodes, it's evident the only reason we got Bubble Power elements added is because Mattel higher-ups wouldn't let them do an improved She-Ra with exactly the same look as the one we got before. The idea to do BP She-Ra wasn't born out of desire to do something nice for toy-based POP fans.

    This is relevant because we're always an afterthought or outright ignored.

    If the sole issue with the original She-Ra was with the hole in the toy line head, I honesty don't believe Mattel would have given us an improved 100% toy line figure or tried to find a way to include just the head as a bonus item. But since it seemed like many notorious MOTU fans were also on-board for at least the waist-twist and improved poseability of the legs, the team could somehow justify the toy line elements in their minds.

    And this is why I'm disappointed in Mattel. - They have absolutely no problem with instantly delving into untested/niche areas of the MOTU world, and require little to no previous discussion on those characters, whereas the only time is seems they'll do something for POP fans is if it seem MOTU fans want it too. Nevermind that they've never tested a pure POP toy line figure or that the POP figures are selling well. None of that matters apparently.

    I'm sure this has the potential to open up a whole debate on popularity, which fandom has the most numbers etc., but I don't want to discuss that because none of it was supposed to matter in this line. It was supposed to be a line where anything was possible. That's what I signed up for and spent extra $$ supporting.

    This sort of attitude permeates so many other areas too, that it's hard to ignore. What started off as "anything is possible", is now feeling like "1 Filmation/style guide representation of each character and that's all you get!" world (This is not the case for MOTU). I mean, it's great that Mattel is now acknowledging the situation with the Star Sisters, but I feel like I shouldn't have to be jumping through hoops etc. to MAYBE find a place for them in the future.

    As for 200X Evil-Lyn, I mainly just brought her up to compare the differences between the response times etc. on her vs. The Star Sisters.

    Anyhow, sorry to be such a downer at the moment.

  9. #84
    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EldestSon View Post
    i guess you aren't confused about catra being pop any longer.

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...ut-PoP-in-2012
    Lol!
    ----

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    npbaity: It's hard for me to articulate my stance, mostly because the explanation requires me to break down certain Mattel decisions/actions, piece-by-piece, and to examine the intentions behind them.

    That can get really involved and convoluted, especially if I'm trying to tackle too many areas at once to try to show the string of events that led us to an end result. This process of evaluation is something that's very automatic/natural for me, even though occasionally I may not immediately understand why I feel the way that I do.

    If you've followed my posts for a lengthy stretch of time, you'll notice that a lot of the issues that I have with Mattel's treatment of certain fans or factions is centered around the idea that they sometimes convey misleading notions (i.e. along the lines of: "We're making POP figures, therefore we're absolved of any wrong-doing") to pacify fans and simultaneously distract the fan base away from points that may not always be at surface level to the bulk of the members here. In some cases I don't believe it's intentional, but still there nonetheless.

    I'll use Bubble Power She-Ra as an example...

    Some folks didn't quite understand why a group of us toy-based fans were still unhappy with Mattel and doubting their intentions after getting the Bubble Power-specific elements with that figure. It was kinda like: "How can you still be disappointed with Mattel after getting major toy-line representation?"

    I'll try to explain as best as I can.

    If you've been listening to the Roast Gooble episodes, it's evident the only reason we got Bubble Power elements added is because Mattel higher-ups wouldn't let them do an improved She-Ra with exactly the same look as the one we got before. The idea to do BP She-Ra wasn't born out of desire to do something nice for toy-based POP fans.

    This is relevant because we're always an afterthought or outright ignored.

    If the sole issue with the original She-Ra was with the hole in the toy line head, I honesty don't believe Mattel would have given us an improved 100% toy line figure or tried to find a way to include just the head as a bonus item. But since it seemed like many notorious MOTU fans were also on-board for at least the waist-twist and improved poseability of the legs, the team could somehow justify the toy line elements in their minds.

    And this is why I'm disappointed in Mattel. - They have absolutely no problem with instantly delving into untested/niche areas of the MOTU world, and require little to no previous discussion on those characters, whereas the only time is seems they'll do something for POP fans is if it seem MOTU fans want it too. Nevermind that they've never tested a pure POP toy line figure or that the POP figures are selling well. None of that matters apparently.

    I'm sure this has the potential to open up a whole debate on popularity, which fandom has the most numbers etc., but I don't want to discuss that because none of it was supposed to matter in this line. It was supposed to be a line where anything was possible. That's what I signed up for and spent extra $$ supporting.

    This sort of attitude permeates so many other areas too, that it's hard to ignore. What started off as "anything is possible", is now feeling like "1 Filmation/style guide representation of each character and that's all you get!" world (This is not the case for MOTU). I mean, it's great that Mattel is now acknowledging the situation with the Star Sisters, but I feel like I shouldn't have to be jumping through hoops etc. to MAYBE find a place for them in the future.
    I understand your frustrations, Tallstar. I really do. I feel your pain.

    However, I would again caution placing too much weight in words & statements while patiently waiting to see what actually comes to pass, especially if you have already noticed a clear disconnect between their words & their actions throughtout the history of the Line. Mattel has given us no solid demonstration that they will be any different tomorrow than they were yesterday, regardless of how many times we've been told they are constantly seeking to improve whatever situation they are speaking to at the time.

    (Then again, maybe that's not a fair assessment of the statement. After all, they always say that they are "Looking At/Into" fixing the problems, never that they are actually "Fixing" the problems. Maybe they are true to their word and are always "Looking At/Into" the issues. The trouble for us is that their "Looking" doesn't give us any solutions to our grievances.)

    At any rate, if you feel that you've been given lip service in the past, on what grounds would you expect to get straightforward, reliable responses with observable actions in the future? You can wish water to be dry all you want but it will never be so without ceasing to be the very thing that you know it to be: water.

    Now, regarding the "We're doing X, therefore we are absolved of any wrong-doing" situation, this is pretty much Mattel's stance on the whole Line (& probably everything that they do). They ALMOST NEVER admit fault. They also seem to enjoy going out of their way to remind us that we should be thanking them constantly for "giving" us this Line rather than them being grateful to us for loyally giving them our hard-earned money, often on promises & blind faith (at least where the Sub is concerned). In their view, whatever they are doing is more than sufficient while what we are doing is not: see also the Wind Raider Underperformance Fiasco. That is simply their view & there's nothing we can really do to change it.

    Also, "Pacify & Distract" is one of their signature moves. That is Mattel's Action Feature! I can't even begin to imagine where we would be without that!


    In regard to the She-Ra 2.0 ( Bubble Power She-Ra) circumstances that you've mentioned, are you suggesting that the Figure is inadequate BECAUSE it can be BOTH a better standard She-Ra than the first release AND a Bubble Power She-Ra?
    It's important to remember that this Figure was promoted to us by Mattel as She-Ra 2.0 right up to the full reveal at SDCC. We didn't know that there would be any Bubble Power (or any other Variant/Version) Elements at all up until that point. The Figure was always referred to as She-Ra 2.0 prior to SDCC. All parties involved were very quick in responding to fan criticisms of She-Ra 1.0 and they acted to solve the issue in as timely a manner as could reasonably be expected, largely succeeding in my opinion. If Mattel had to make it a unique release by adding the Bubble Power Elements to justify offering the Figure, why should that be a problem? They got the Figure out to the Fans that wanted it & gave them display options to boot! In what way does this Figure fail in being both a better standard She-Ra and a Bubble Power She-Ra? In what ways are the Original Bubble Power She-Ra & MOTUC Bubble Power She-Ra so different? The 2 Figures look very close to each other in my eyes. What are the shortcomings of this Figure in your eyes?


    I understand that you're feeling disappointed in terms of representation in the Line & seeing certain requests fulfilled, but if any fan group has bragging rights for "Treated As An Afterthought/Most Overlooked/Outright Ignored" in this line, it would have to be the hardcore "NA" Fans & the Snake Men Fans. As you well know, the release of the Star Sisters means that there has been as much "POP" released just in 2012 as there has been "NA" & Snake Men combined over the full 3.5 years of the line! Of course there are more coming in the future, but imagine how the fans most devoted to those segments of the property must feel.

    MOTU, being the originating line & the largest potential pool of releases to pull from, was always going to be of prominence in Mattel's eyes. Whether that is fair or not, to expect otherwise would be folly & will only lead to disappointment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    As for 200X Evil-Lyn, I mainly just brought her up to compare the differences between the response times etc. on her vs. The Star Sisters.

    Anyhow, sorry to be such a downer at the moment.
    There again, a response is not action. They can Respond all they want but it doesn't automatically mean they are taking Action. Conversely, they can Remain Silent completely and that doesn't mean they aren't cooking something up even as we speak. Patience, my friend! Only time will tell the truth of it!

    At any rate, another Celebratory Congrats on the Sellout! Another WIN for the MOTUC Line!


    Long Live MOTU!!!!
    Now & Forever!!!!
    Last edited by npbaity; January 23, 2012 at 01:00pm.

  11. #86
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    I'll try to keep it short this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by npbaity View Post
    At any rate, if you feel that you've been given lip service in the past, on what grounds would you expect to get straightforward, reliable responses with observable actions in the future? You can wish water to be dry all you want but it will never be so without ceasing to be the very thing that you know it to be: water.
    There are a couple different reasons for this, the main one being that I'm aware of some of Mattel's history with regard to other properties and see similar scenarios where they listen to the customers and make changes. For example, pulling products that are deemed inappropriate, issues dealing with lack of representation etc. (not that I always agree that said products were inappropriate, mind you) This gives me hope they may eventually listen to the POP toy fans as well.

    In regard to the She-Ra 2.0 ( Bubble Power She-Ra) circumstances that you've mentioned, are you suggesting that the Figure is inadequate BECAUSE it can be BOTH a better standard She-Ra than the first release AND a Bubble Power She-Ra?
    No. I think you may have missed the point of what I was trying to communicate earlier.

    It's important to remember that this Figure was promoted to us by Mattel as She-Ra 2.0 right up to the full reveal at SDCC. We didn't know that there would be any Bubble Power (or any other Variant/Version) Elements at all up until that point. The Figure was always referred to as She-Ra 2.0 prior to SDCC.
    Actually, we did have a pretty good idea that toy line elements would be part of the She-Ra 2.0 release. Not only did Mattel drop some hints when asked, saying that multiple looks could be created with this updated version, but I believe they also mentioned specific pieces that were from the POP toy line.

    If Mattel had to make it a unique release by adding the Bubble Power Elements to justify offering the Figure, why should that be a problem?
    My point was always that I'm disappointed because we got it as a result of there being other issues, not specifically something done for only the POP toy fans.

    I understand that you're feeling disappointed in terms of representation in the Line & seeing certain requests fulfilled, but if any fan group has bragging rights for "Treated As An Afterthought/Most Overlooked/Outright Ignored" in this line, it would have to be the hardcore "NA" Fans & the Snake Men Fans.
    This opens up a whooooole 'nother topic that I've discussed before. I don't want to get into this because it's too much work dealing with the onslaught of responses that usually follow. I'll say this: I consider toy line POP to be something different from Filmation/Style Guide POP.

    Quote Originally Posted by npbaity View Post
    There again, a response is not action. They can Respond all they want but it doesn't automatically mean they are taking Action. Conversely, they can Remain Silent completely and that doesn't mean they aren't cooking something up even as we speak. Patience, my friend! Only time will tell the truth of it!
    What I'm trying to say, albeit not very well, is that I would much prefer to get the type of responses other fans get on something like 200X than the silent treatment. In my mind this makes the potential of seeing the release much greater.
    Last edited by Tallstar; January 23, 2012 at 02:10pm.

  12. #87
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    After the whole deal with the Wind Raider we can’t even read anything into a relatively quick sell out anymore.
    That Mattel has gotten to the place where something selling out completely in three days is considered just "okay" simply shows the utterly ludicrous point we have come to. That everything in the line apparently has to sell like Battle Cat, one of the main characters in the mythos, tells me just how far removed from reality TG and Mattel have travelled.

    TG, Matty and company: Bid a fond farewell to Captain Hook and the Lost Boys and come back to us from Neverland. Reality misses you terribly.
    "I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

  13. #88
    Evil Collapsing Robot! Zodach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    This opens up a whooooole 'nother topic that I've discussed before. I don't want to get into this because it's too much work dealing with the onslaught of responses that usually follow. I'll say this: I consider toy line POP to be something different from Filmation/Style Guide POP.
    I think you are further segmenting the POP fans into an even smaller group though, which makes their case for inclusion in the line even weaker. Toy based variants of already released POP characters are not going to win any popularity polls, especially when you consider that they would be going up against Snake Armor He-man, NA Skeletor, 200X Sorceress, Randor, or Prince Adam in a quarterly slot.

    Unfortunately I think Mattel has seen subscriptions drop the last 2 years and they're looking for ways to curb that trend. Stronger character selection, even if it's at the expense of some fan segments, is probably going to be more commonplace going forward. I hope this line lasts long enough for everyone to get what they want out of it though, even the POP fans

  14. #89
    CRITAcal for MOTUC 2015!! Barezz's Avatar
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    I'm happy that the Star Sisters got made, especially for those who were really excited about them. That being said I wouldn't want a varient of any of them if that would bump a new figure. especially when we are talking about someone like Glimmer for example. Now if they want to use one of the quarterly slots that would be better, "toy look Tallstar" would probably be more popular than Snake MAA. I'm not a huge fan of the majority of He-man and Skeletor varients either, and honestly Buzzsaw Hordak could never be made and I would sleep well.

    I think that figure varients are a bit of a sub category or niche in the line. Everyone thinks He-man or Skeletor is cool, but maybe not so much Dragon Blaster skeletor. I LOVE Hordak as a character and figure, but could care less for Buzzsaw Hordak.

    Personally, I think the Filmation versions of PoP characters are the stronger versions. I would much rather have the Catra that we got then the PoP version that just looks....awful. I don't know why PoP figures looked so different from the cartoon versions, I am guessing some kind of licensing weirdness at the time. When I think of Glimmer I think of the cute girl we saw in the cartoon. Of course that's just me.

    I also die a bit on the inside when I read anything about She-ra's butt kicking "Bubble Power" armor in the bio. Again that's just me

    I guess at the end of the day it may be better to focus attention on getting further PoP versions made than making a huge and constant push to get toy accurate varients of the just released characters that people com plain about.

  15. #90
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    THere's always going to be a little hedging on POP from Mattel; even though this is a collectors' line, and even though the female figures sell as well as or better than the males, the Entrenched Toy Industry Dogma of "girls don't sell" is woven into the very fabric of Mattel's boys division, permeating into their very souls. It's a mantra that no amount of actual facts will ever completely dispel, so something like a three pack of ladies from these guys is, for them, the equivalent of near blasphemy, and could not have come easily. Seriously, POP is predominantly female, and Mattel has and always will have a problem with that in a male aimed line, even for collectors. I think that's what we are seeing here, but the Sisters do indicate that there's some progress being made.

    As to the issue of toy versions vs. cartoon versions, I know my take is probably going to upset a few fellow POP fans. Simply put, the elements of the cartoon designs work better than the toy designs for an action figure because they are better designs (from a more technical perspective) on several counts. The original line had a lot of extra frills (literally) and glttery capes and such that don't translate well into the style of MOTUC. Some of it was actually pretty overdone and sloppy in execution from the design perspective and would be really hard to translate here into a workable figure. The cartoon designs took a more simplified aprroach, and it is easier to add detail to a simple yet solid design than to tone down un-needed fluff from the toys. The biggest thing, though, is the color pallette. Here, the toon really did the toys one better. Castaspella is a good example; the toy is basically yellow and light orange, and there is virtually no contrast to work with. The toon design added a bright Superman blue and a darker orange, giving the costume far more definition, catching the eye much more easily. Put bluntly, the toy design was weak and woulsd make an unremarkable and dull action figure; the toon design has a more solid basic design to be expanded on and the color scheme is much more visually appealing. And this is with a figure whose differences twxit toy and toon weren't that extensive. Others like Angella and Glimmer were even more divergent in the cartoon, and, again, the designs and color schemes were far better suited to an eye catching action figure. Angella especially is basically all dull pink, something that would make a very boring looking figure in the MOTUC line, wheras the darker pink, light blue and bright white of the toon would stand out far better. And one thing that has always been at the heart of a succesful MOTU is color, and lots of it. It's part of the super hero element, I think, with brightly colored characters fighting the never ending battle. Something some have cast aspersions on with the Sisters is the very bright and contrasting colors used; me, I think it's one of their strengths as figures, and will make them stand out on the collector's shelves in a good way.

    Would I pass on a toy based Casta or Angella? No, but I would be far more thrilled with the more striking toon based versions, as they would fit in much better with the figures we have.
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  16. #91
    Heroic Warrior jackstatic's Avatar
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    Few thoughts i want to touch upon.
    First i am really glad the star sisters sold out. Its great for their fans as well as continues to show the life of the line.
    second, i am not a huge fan or repaints and variants for the sake of filling a slot. I dont care about snake man at arms, hurricane hordak has remaine in package, and while the bg evil lyn is my preferred lyn, and the one i wanted to begin with, i still think 1 lyn is fine for now. I don't want variants of the star sisters. To me thats pointless, there are so mamy other characters that it just seems a terrible waste of a slot amd funds, especially since they werent unanimously accepted when originally revealed. I dont recall any figure really being this split between buyers of this line.

    Dont get me wrong, i too was a hater of them, they really were not appealing to me in photos, and if i was a cherry picker id have skipped them, but in hand they really do look nice, and because i have a sub i didnt miss out and really like the figures.

    Still, i dont see the need for a varient of any of them. Just like how i dont see the need for a marzo varient, a clawful varient (and im a huge clawful and marzo fan) or any other figure. I want two bad, i want spikor, i want ram man, hell i even want frosta, glimmer, and castaspella. But why do we need more versions of the star sisters when there are so many other figures just waiting to get made?
    Last edited by jackstatic; January 24, 2012 at 02:37pm.
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  17. #92
    Heroic Warrior Slave2Evil_Lyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    THere's always going to be a little hedging on POP from Mattel; even though this is a collectors' line, and even though the female figures sell as well as or better than the males, the Entrenched Toy Industry Dogma of "girls don't sell" is woven into the very fabric of Mattel's boys division, permeating into their very souls. It's a mantra that no amount of actual facts will ever completely dispel, so something like a three pack of ladies from these guys is, for them, the equivalent of near blasphemy, and could not have come easily. Seriously, POP is predominantly female, and Mattel has and always will have a problem with that in a male aimed line, even for collectors. I think that's what we are seeing here, but the Sisters do indicate that there's some progress being made.
    This mentality has been the bane of my toy playing/collection life! From the time I started playing with action figures which was around 3 or 4, I always wanted to play with the female character. So as kid I never understood this idea of "boys don't play with girl figures" because I was a boy and they were my favorite. I would get so excited when a cartoon would have a cool female that I liked but then when I went to the toy store, guess what no female figure. I had Princess Leia, Scarlett, Baroness, Wonder Woman, but there were it, I hated that there was usually only 1 (if any) female character to a line. GI Joe had more but there were long dry spells between most of them.

    It's 2012 toy companies need to get with the times, as do parents, if a boy wants to play with a girl character let him. No one stops a girl from playing with Ken or other male action figures/dolls.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    As to the issue of toy versions vs. cartoon versions, I know my take is probably going to upset a few fellow POP fans. Simply put, the elements of the cartoon designs work better than the toy designs for an action figure because they are better designs (from a more technical perspective) on several counts. The original line had a lot of extra frills (literally) and glttery capes and such that don't translate well into the style of MOTUC. Some of it was actually pretty overdone and sloppy in execution from the design perspective and would be really hard to translate here into a workable figure. The cartoon designs took a more simplified aprroach, and it is easier to add detail to a simple yet solid design than to tone down un-needed fluff from the toys. The biggest thing, though, is the color pallette. Here, the toon really did the toys one better. Castaspella is a good example; the toy is basically yellow and light orange, and there is virtually no contrast to work with. The toon design added a bright Superman blue and a darker orange, giving the costume far more definition, catching the eye much more easily. Put bluntly, the toy design was weak and woulsd make an unremarkable and dull action figure; the toon design has a more solid basic design to be expanded on and the color scheme is much more visually appealing. And this is with a figure whose differences twxit toy and toon weren't that extensive. Others like Angella and Glimmer were even more divergent in the cartoon, and, again, the designs and color schemes were far better suited to an eye catching action figure. Angella especially is basically all dull pink, something that would make a very boring looking figure in the MOTUC line, wheras the darker pink, light blue and bright white of the toon would stand out far better. And one thing that has always been at the heart of a succesful MOTU is color, and lots of it. It's part of the super hero element, I think, with brightly colored characters fighting the never ending battle. Something some have cast aspersions on with the Sisters is the very bright and contrasting colors used; me, I think it's one of their strengths as figures, and will make them stand out on the collector's shelves in a good way.
    I agree here, that the Filmation designs have more of a contrast which is more appealing to the eye. Adding some of the toy details to the boots and/or gauntlets would be a great touch, it worked for BP She-ra. Like most of Mattel's figures the vintage POP line was all about reuse of parts, and I think some of the figures suffered for it. Mermista for example, when her tail becomes legs it make NO sense that she would have boots on. But Mattel wanted to reuse the legs from other figures rather then making smooth legs with a fin like Filmation or Aquaman. Perfuma is another, in Filmation she wore flat shoes and tights, but once again rather then making a new leg tool she got boots. Part of why I like the Filmation designs is that it adds some uniqueness to the characters. I know that there were a lot of leotards, it was the 80's after all, but really only Glimmer and Angela and as Mother and Daughter it makes sense for them to have a similar look. Maybe that was the fashion of the royal court of Bright Moon.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Would I pass on a toy based Casta or Angella? No, but I would be far more thrilled with the more striking toon based versions, as they would fit in much better with the figures we have.
    Totally! I like the characters of Casta and Angella so if we only get the toy look, then I'll happily buy them. That way I can have those characters in my collection even if it's not may preferred look.
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  18. #93
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave2Evil_Lyn View Post
    Mermista for example, when her tail becomes legs it make NO sense that she would have boots on. But Mattel wanted to reuse the legs from other figures rather then making smooth legs with a fin like Filmation or Aquaman. Perfuma is another, in Filmation she wore flat shoes and tights, but once again rather then making a new leg tool she got boots. Part of why I like the Filmation designs is that it adds some uniqueness to the characters. I know that there were a lot of leotards, it was the 80's after all, but really only Glimmer and Angela and as Mother and Daughter it makes sense for them to have a similar look. Maybe that was the fashion of the royal court of Bright Moon.
    Toy Mermista and Perfuma have unique boots/legs that are not re-used on any other PoP character. They were made specifically for each respective character. Also, Filmation Queen Angella and Glimmer are essentially repaints whereas the toys are distinctly different from one another.

    I know we all have our favourites, but I VASTLY prefer the toy "warrior" Perfuma to Filmation's Little Miss Muffet version.

    Also, for the 2nd and 3rd wave toy characters, Mattel created them as toys first and then Filmation changed them for the cartoon. So, Peekablue, Sweet Bee, Mermista, Flutterina, Netossa, Spinnerella, Entrapta, all the She-Ra and Catra variants and the Star Sisters were created as toys first. That's their original design and intent. I know that won't matter for a lot of people...but that's how it happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by EldestSon View Post
    i guess you aren't confused about catra being pop any longer.

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...ut-PoP-in-2012
    If you read it, I say Mattel's classification system. That discussion actually helped all of us learn that Mattel pretty much considers all Horde characters PoP. Now we know we have to ask for "Female Great Rebellion characters."
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  19. #94
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  20. #95
    Heroic Warrior Slave2Evil_Lyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    Toy Mermista and Perfuma have unique boots/legs that are not re-used on any other PoP character. They were made specifically for each respective character. Also, Filmation Queen Angella and Glimmer are essentially repaints whereas the toys are distinctly different from one another.

    I know we all have our favourites, but I VASTLY prefer the toy "warrior" Perfuma to Filmation's Little Miss Muffet version.

    Also, for the 2nd and 3rd wave toy characters, Mattel created them as toys first and then Filmation changed them for the cartoon. So, Peekablue, Sweet Bee, Mermista, Flutterina, Netossa, Spinnerella, Entrapta, all the She-Ra and Catra variants and the Star Sisters were created as toys first. That's their original design and intent. I know that won't matter for a lot of people...but that's how it happened.
    I didn't know that about the later waves so thank you for enlightening me on the history.

    Glimmer and Angella are related and members of a royal court so it makes sense for them to match. Angella is the one POP character that hands downs could have a variant as the two looks are so different.

    I consider most of the female POP characters to be "warriors" in their own right, not just the females left behind when the male warriors were imprisoned. But I do like the idea that not all of them are, Peekablue and Perfuma as characters work better as pacifists. It makes them deeper and more interesting as characters, not just random female warrior with "blank" theme. That is why I prefer the Filmation design of Perfuma. Seeing Hordak stopped by a hippie dippy flower power girl verses some "Poison Ivy like" plant warrior makes for a more unique character. IMHO.
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  21. #96
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave2Evil_Lyn View Post
    But I do like the idea that not all of them are, Peekablue and Perfuma as characters work better as pacifists. It makes them deeper and more interesting as characters, not just random female warrior with "blank" theme. That is why I prefer the Filmation design of Perfuma. Seeing Hordak stopped by a hippie dippy flower power girl verses some "Poison Ivy like" plant warrior makes for a more unique character. IMHO.
    That's true. Peekablue is definitely not a warrior (toy or cartoon), she's an oracle. Perfuma, I'm not sure how I see her characterization-wise. Still, hippie or warrior, I think she'll need boots instead of slippers in the muddy forests and gardens.
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  22. #97
    Heroic Warrior Slave2Evil_Lyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    That's true. Peekablue is definitely not a warrior (toy or cartoon), she's an oracle. Perfuma, I'm not sure how I see her characterization-wise. Still, hippie or warrior, I think she'll need boots instead of slippers in the muddy forests and gardens.
    Like Brian and I were discussing at Power Con, it's also fun to think of Perfuma as a pure carnivore, with a dark side. She loves meat and even as a seemingly sweet scatter brain she'll pick up a squirrel and bit it's head off.

    It's unlikely, even with the 4H leaning towards Filmation/style guide designs that Perfuma will have the little slippers. That would require a new tool, thus costing Mattel more money. I guess there is a small chance as they did do a good bit of new tooling for the Star Sisters. Only time will tell.
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  23. #98
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Alexx hit the nail on the head with this response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx View Post
    All my complaints about the Star Sisters rest souly on the design - when I see the TOYLINE, I see some...well...to horn in the name of the world they're on: "Etherial" clothes 'n such. The stuff they're wearing is supposed to be "girly" frilly stuff, but I thought they met an interesting middle ground of shinny Barbie type stuff while looking like classic mystical fantasy stuff. The Star Sisters had that, but it was removed in favor of thier...80's workout clothes from the show (or that one poster art, but it's still similar to the show's look). I'm kinda afraid of this for all the figures, really. They had to be simplified for the TV show 'cause that's what happens with toons - same went for the 200X toon. You didn't see anywhere near as much detail on the toons as you did on the figures, naturally. That's the thing, though: if the toon and the figures had such differences, why does that have to stop now? Continue that difference! Base them off the toys! I still like the Star Sisters for what they represent, but I can easily admit that they have lost some of thier "fantasy" look by taking the workout-clothes look that they have now. I know the toon is the thing that sticks out in most fan's minds...but honestly, the designs are too simple for expensive collecters toys. I wana see something interesting, like what they did with She-Ra 2.0.

  24. #99
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave2Evil_Lyn View Post
    I agree here, that the Filmation designs have more of a contrast which is more appealing to the eye. Adding some of the toy details to the boots and/or gauntlets would be a great touch, it worked for BP She-ra.
    This is a very good point, and EXACTLY what they did with Bow, who wowed even the non-POP fans. They started with the basic toon design and then embellished it using appropriate details from the toy (and a few new details,as well). BP She-Ra was much the same, and the details they added from the toy fit the MOTUC style very well and added a lot to the figure. I think that strategy is the best way to approach the POP characters, like Frosta, for example (hint, hint, Mattel!).
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  25. #100
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    BBTS only has 28 sets left.

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