Serious Question: Isn't It Important To Hold Mattel Accountable?

[Tallstar]

Before I get into the heart of my post, I want to preface by saying that I hope this thread doesn't come off snarky because that's not at all my intention. I'll admit, the paragraph following this one will be a bit preachy, but I'm just seriously trying to understand where some folks are coming from when they post certain dismissive responses, which sometimes kind of leave me feeling depressed and hopeless. I know. I know. It's 'just a toy line', but I guess this sort of stuff effects me on a deeper level, being that I view it in a broad real-world sort of context.

Basically this is what I would like your commentary on: Over the last few years, I've noticed a depressing trend to where I'm seeing posts that seem to be letting Mattel off-the-hook on honoring polls, campaigns, past statements etc. if it happens to be an item/area that doesn't particularly interest or effect those members, or it's something that ends up working in their favor... which, okay. I totally get that folks may have interests that differ from my own. I'm not expecting all these members to fight for stuff they're uninterested in. But what I don't get is... Why dismiss, blame and/or be annoyed with the fans who do care about these particular issues? Isn't that sending mixed messages to Mattel and just giving them more reasons to take advantage in other situations?

I'm just really confused.

[Xavion]

I think part of the problem is that there are so many gray areas when it comes to why certain decisions were made because we're not privy to all of the factors that influenced those decisions. Throw a passionate fanbase on top of that, and you get a lot of finger pointing in all directions. Also, most fans probably don't fall into one camp consistently. I can be a Matty appologist today and rip them a new one tomorrow. It depends on what mood I'm in and whether or not my buttons have been pushed by a Matty announcment or even other fans.

[Motorthing]

To answer your question Tallstar: Yes, it is important to hold them, or any other Company accountable for what they do and don't do And sadly when it comes to Matty I think most of us end up confused these days.

[RyanSD]

I think part of the problem is the amount of communication we do get from TG/Mattel. They want to promote the line and say "anything is on the table if there's enough fan support for it," when it simply isn't true or realistic. I think 3+ years of fan backlash is catching up to Matty, and no amount of 'Bio-reveals', in package photos, or blogs can change that.

[Eterniandreams]

Hi,
Actually, the opposite applies too. I have NO major issues with this line. It is exactly what I expected.
Therefore, I really hate it when people get vocal about things that they consider to be "major problems" and claim to be "the voice of the customers". You are not. They are problems you (as in that vocal group) have, not me and others like me.
Don't claim our voice assuming that you are fighting a fight for us. You are not. If I have issues with something I will use the WFWTK or Matty boards or customer services myself.
That is how I feel.

[Tallstar]

Hi,
Actually, the opposite applies too. I have NO major issues with this line. It is exactly what I expected.
Therefore, I really hate it when people get vocal about things that they consider to be "major problems" and claim to be "the voice of the customers". You are not. They are problems you (as in that vocal group) have, not me and others like me.
Don't claim our voice assuming that you are fighting a fight for us. You are not. If I have issues with something I will use the WFWTK or Matty boards or customer services myself.
That is how I feel.

Out of curiosity, is this something you feel I've done with regard to the Star Sisters situation I've repeatedly talked about? I think I'm pretty careful with my words, but it's possible something may have been misinterpreted.

[VaultsofGrayskull]

Hi,
Actually, the opposite applies too. I have NO major issues with this line. It is exactly what I expected.
Therefore, I really hate it when people get vocal about things that they consider to be "major problems" and claim to be "the voice of the customers". You are not. They are problems you (as in that vocal group) have, not me and others like me.
Don't claim our voice assuming that you are fighting a fight for us. You are not. If I have issues with something I will use the WFWTK or Matty boards or customer services myself.
That is how I feel.

I think the point is that so many people are having problems (hence the greater than normal number of posts about customer service) that it's surprising some people are happy to dismiss these issues as unimportant because they are lucky enough to be unaffected (for now).

Well these problems aren't made up. Great if you're problem-free, but many people are still trying to get answers.

[krosfyah]

A company should be held accountable for their products and their customer service. Everything else though is essentially theirs to do. if they WANTED to change MOTUC in an all he-man and skeletor variant line, it's their right, they will lose customers like crazy and blame us for not supporting the product and blame the product for not being relevant (sound familiar) but that's their business right. they don't HAVE to ensure that paint decos please us, they don't have to ensure that they make the toys to OUR vision. they only have to honour that they sell a quality product and handle our account with care and secuity.

Most of us know that Mattel constantly fails MOTU and the fandom, mattel says the fans and motu fails them. but they have to portray they are competent to their shareholders, dumping anyhting but barbie and hot wheels - to the stock holders, shows that mattel is bbeing accountable. its a sucky situation for fans, but that's the way it is.

[cbomb23]

Well I really don't know what this meant to encompass? QC problems, customer service issues, choices in the line, the only poll result they didn't completely honor that I can think of is the Swiftwind (I guess the Panthor one, which wasn't really a poll was it?), design decisions, etc.

I collect a number of different lines and I really don't see this lines faults any different than most of the others I collect, paint apps, QC issues which for me have been very few and far between affect almost all that I collect. And is that me accepting those flaws, I guess or I could just decide not to collect because I find the faults too great.

Customer Service/Digitlal River has been a huge problem, but I've only had one non-ordering issue (until the Star Sisters, and I'll see how that plays out). I got 3 "original burst" Vikors instead of "1st release" ones, and I never got replacements, but I did get the figure I was subbed just not the version I wanted. The Star Sisters were supposedly delivered the same day as my Demo-man and BG Evil Lyns ( I got those) so I called the other day I'll see if it gets fixed. Really my problem has been with ordering and the inability to handle the traffic, but at the same time Hasbro Toy Shop is worse when SDCC items go on sale, and nothing will probably be worse than when the re-release of the Air Jordan XI in December (Multiple sites were down all night!). So I've learned it's not nearly as bad as it could be.

As far as being on opposite sides to what some fans want, well I'm a fan too and the Brand manager monitors/participaates in this forum (and others) so I want my opinion noticed too as it seems if a very small number of fans want something and there is no opposing opinion, then the "whole" fanbase wants it. So when and if the Horsemen and Mattel want to reinvision POP or NA I have all the faith in them that they will make figures I want: She-ra, Bow, Catra, Optikk, Icarius, and Slushhead have all been great! Most of my issues have been with MOTU vintage clones and missing alternate modern heads.

[Eterniandreams]

Out of curiosity, is this something you feel I've done with regard to the Star Sisters situation I've repeatedly talked about? I think I'm pretty careful with my words, but it's possible something may have been misinterpreted.

Hi,
No, most of the time you are very clear that you are representing your own opinion.
I really dislike the "we, fans, want this", "we, fans, hate that" posts.
I feel that this figures are one of the best I collected. Especially compared to retail lines.

I think the quality of (all aspects of) the line has risen since the beginning.
I think the expectations of certain collectors has just risen more and that way the line will never be good enough according to their standards.

[Skystalker]

Before I get into the heart of my post, I want to preface by saying that I hope this thread doesn't come off snarky because that's not at all my intention. I'll admit, the paragraph following this one will be a bit preachy, but I'm just seriously trying to understand where some folks are coming from when they post certain dismissive responses, which sometimes kind of leave me feeling depressed and hopeless. I know. I know. It's 'just a toy line', but I guess this sort of stuff effects me on a deeper level, being that I view it in a broad real-world sort of context.

Basically this is what I would like your commentary on: Over the last few years, I've noticed a depressing trend to where I'm seeing posts that seem to be letting Mattel off-the-hook on honoring polls, campaigns, past statements etc. if it happens to be an item/area that doesn't particularly interest or effect those members, or it's something that ends up working in their favor... which, okay. I totally get that folks may have interests that differ from my own. I'm not expecting all these members to fight for stuff they're uninterested in. But what I don't get is... Why dismiss, blame and/or be annoyed with the fans who do care about these particular issues? Isn't that sending mixed messages to Mattel and just giving them more reasons to take advantage in other situations?

I'm just really confused.

I think that this a yes and no answer kind of question.

Should we hold Mattel accountable for crappy quality control and poor customer service — absolutely!!!

Should we hold Mattel accountable for polls — More iffy

1. One of the longstanding issues is the flocked Panthor poll, which Matty says was won by the unflocked voters (for the record, I'm glad Panthor wasn't flocked). A lot of people say that no, the flocked won. No real way to judge this won, as there is no paper record of the votes.
2. The Swiftwind Poll — some are upset because the Royal SwiftWind won but then we got Filmation. I suppose that to some degree this could be seen as Matty going back on its promises. However, to be fair, if Filmation Swifty had been available at the time, he would have won. Royal Swift Wind was only in the poll and voted on because it was the closest that we could get to Filmation at the time. Mattel, I think, wisely understood that. Like it or not, the diehard POP toy fans need to come to grips with the fact that the vast majority of buyers want the Filmation designs first, and the toy designs second, if at all. I suppose I could be wrong about this, but the uproar about Swifty not being Royal Swift Wind and Mattel "lying" to us was an issue mostly for diehard POP fans. (For the record, I'll take both Filmation and toy designs, thank you very much). I'm not sure this is Mattel being a "liar" or something like that. I mean, how many people honestly believed that Royal Swift Wind was that much in demand over Filmation?

Then we have the issues with Matty saying one thing and then changing its mind — Keldor Swords, reissue policies, etc. Again, I'm not sure that this is a case of outright lying, just the shifting dynamics of toy production, the toy business, etc. Although, I can understand why people can get upset about this. I, for one, am tired of people changing their minds as often as they change their underwear. But such is the corporate world.

I think the main reason why people get annoyed when others complain is that a lot of the complaining seems to come from people who start attributing all sort of evil motives to Scott and Mattel. I'm not saying you are the one doing this, but I have seen comments where people have accused Scott of nixing 200x heads just to make us mad, of purposefully ruining the mythology we know and love, etc. etc. There is a difference between this and constructive criticism. With the Spector situation, for example, we had some who respectfully critiqued the figure and others who had posts in which they implicitly accused Scott of intentionally creating a character he knew people would hate just to screw the fans. The former kind of complaints are good, the latter are absurd. We also have people regularly picking apart everything Mattel says and reading all sorts of stuff into it. Mattel does not always say things wisely, but the impression regularly given by some posters is that no matter what Mattel says, the company is villainous and motivated to make us mad. Hard to take that kind of stuff seriously.

[Ealo]

Out of curiosity, is this something you feel I've done with regard to the Star Sisters situation I've repeatedly talked about? I think I'm pretty careful with my words, but it's possible something may have been misinterpreted.

i feel exactly like eterniandreams does and (speaking just for myself) i don't think you are one of the people that do that. there are some on the forums that are pretty vociferous in their anti-mattel stance and they tend to speak as if they have the entire classics' customer base behind them when that's rarely the case.

i think the whole 'keep mattel to their promises' is a bit of a joke to be honest. it is like when people had the whole 'let the 4H run free' attitude, then they got the dial on hurricane hordak. the majority aren't interested in mattel's promises nor the 4H being given artistic freedom. they are just interested in getting what they want and 'mattel's promise' is an easy banner to rally under. why do some people at times get dumped on for going after mattel's promises? because in those cases those promises aren't want some people want so all of a sudden it is ok for mattel to break their promises.

[Barezz]

I think that they should always be held accountable for QC mistakes. Things like backwards shoulders are unacceptable in my book, escpecially when they happen over and over and they claim to be forming task forces to prevent this. They should always be accountable for quality issues that impact the figures that we are purchasing. That includes things such as design flaws in my book, like "diapers" and "dumpy crouthces".

On the other hand, I think people fo waaaay too far at times. The Demo-man shipping situation for example, I don't feel like is something that we need to yell at Mattel about. It was out of their hands. I also think that some fans get out of hand raging against things like figure choices. For every person who hates the Star Sisters, another person loves them. Also for every person that wishes that they looked like they did in a obscure toy ad, there are others who are happy with them looking like they did in the 3 seconds that they were in the cartoon .

I think that what it comes down to is some people go over the top. The way I see it, if I sub then I'm all in. I choose at this point to accept anything they throw at me. The rest of the figure lineup for the rest of the year could be snake varients of characters and that would just be how it was. I would be upset sure, but I would likely just not sub in the future, not freak out. There's a big difference in stating an opinion about something and having a freak out.

So for things like QC issues, etc I think that should always be something Mattel is held responsible for. I also think that they should be held accountable for Digital River issues, even if DR isn't under their direct control. I would imagine that they have some kind of longterm contract with DR, so the likelyhood of them dumping DR for someone else is not very likely. But I do think that Mattel should advocate and push DR like crazy when their custmers have issues with them.

One question I have, what are all of these polls that people keep talking about that are being done unfairly or disregareded? I know about the Panthor flocking and Swiftwind, but are there other ones?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

I think that this a yes and no answer kind of question.

Should we hold Mattel accountable for crappy quality control and poor customer service — absolutely!!!

Should we hold Mattel accountable for polls — More iffy

1. One of the longstanding issues is the flocked Panthor poll, which Matty says was won by the unflocked voters (for the record, I'm glad Panthor wasn't flocked). A lot of people say that no, the flocked won. No real way to judge this won, as there is no paper record of the votes.
2. The Swiftwind Poll — some are upset because the Royal SwiftWind won but then we got Filmation. I suppose that to some degree this could be seen as Matty going back on its promises. However, to be fair, if Filmation Swifty had been available at the time, he would have won. Royal Swift Wind was only in the poll and voted on because it was the closest that we could get to Filmation at the time. Mattel, I think, wisely understood that. Like it or not, the diehard POP toy fans need to come to grips with the fact that the vast majority of buyers want the Filmation designs first, and the toy designs second, if at all. I suppose I could be wrong about this, but the uproar about Swifty not being Royal Swift Wind and Mattel "lying" to us was an issue mostly for diehard POP fans. (For the record, I'll take both Filmation and toy designs, thank you very much). I'm not sure this is Mattel being a "liar" or something like that. I mean, how many people honestly believed that Royal Swift Wind was that much in demand over Filmation?

Then we have the issues with Matty saying one thing and then changing its mind — Keldor Swords, reissue policies, etc. Again, I'm not sure that this is a case of outright lying, just the shifting dynamics of toy production, the toy business, etc. Although, I can understand why people can get upset about this. I, for one, am tired of people changing their minds as often as they change their underwear. But such is the corporate world.

I think the main reason why people get annoyed when others complain is that a lot of the complaining seems to come from people who start attributing all sort of evil motives to Scott and Mattel. I'm not saying you are the one doing this, but I have seen comments where people have accused Scott of nixing 200x heads just to make us mad, of purposefully ruining the mythology we know and love, etc. etc. There is a difference between this and constructive criticism. With the Spector situation, for example, we had some who respectfully critiqued the figure and others who had posts in which they implicitly accused Scott of intentionally creating a character he knew people would hate just to screw the fans. The former kind of complaints are good, the latter are absurd. We also have people regularly picking apart everything Mattel says and reading all sorts of stuff into it. Mattel does not always say things wisely, but the impression regularly given by some posters is that no matter what Mattel says, the company is villainous and motivated to make us mad. Hard to take that kind of stuff seriously.

Overall I agree with this.

I think Tallstar's point here is more so in the direction of holding Mattel accountable towards how POP has been handled in MOTUC (and things along those lines), and less so on quality control and customer service issues. Frankly I am FAR more concerned about the latter than the former.

The reality is that overall the Filmation versions of POP are far more recognized and popular (especially in cases where there's a drastic overall design difference between the toy and cartoon.... in some cases from later waves they are much more similar with the toy merely being more detailed, in which case it makes sense to give those details to the figure). It's just the nature of the beast. There's these die hard POP fans that seem to be convinced that the toy incarnations are more highly demanded than they actually are. Even when/if Filmation is acknowledged from someone in that camp as being more popular, they still seem to think that the toy designs are far closer of a "second place" than they actually are. Most fans want the Filmation designs. While it was stated in the past that the toy designs would be what the MOTUC figures are based on, at the time they didn't seem to know if they could even do the Filmation versions. But then they figured out that they could some way some how (even before they had the rights to make the Filmation characters in the line).

The Swiftwind vote is a testament to this. Obviously most people voted for "royal" because it was the closest thing to the Filmation look that was on the table in that vote. And many people indicated as such on forums like this one.

The reality is that despite certain up hill battles in getting certain things done/made in this line, in general it makes sense for Mattel to adapt this line to the general preferences and tastes of the majority of fans collecting it. Catering to a small select group at the expense of the larger fan base, all for the purpose of just not contradicting some previous statement that they made about the direction of the line, would frankly be stupid. It's a business and they are going to produce what sells. I've heard arguments (from prior to the Filmation rights specifically being acquired) from that side, in reference to the style guide that (as far as we know) is what allowed Mattel to use the Filmation-like designs, saying that the figures shouldn't be based on some "obscure document", even though it was a legit, and completely legal loophole that allowed Mattel to use the obviously most popular designs. Some of the die hard toy POP fans love to just make this into a semantics argument by making these kinds of points. Sure, Mattel just shouldn't do what's going to sell to the best because of semantics and past statements. They should just take advice from people who aren't arguing things logically, but instead are just arguing all over the place to get what they want. It would be great advice to take if Mattel was looking for a way to run this line more poorly and cause even more problems with it and lost sales than already exist.

And honestly I don't think there's going to be that much demand for toy specific variants of previously released POP characters. I think the reaction from the bulk of the fan community would be just as bad if not worse than that of "Taken for the ass" Man-At-Arms, and while I'm not clamoring for one, I do honestly think that a 3rd version of Evil Lyn with 200X dress would go over better than many of the toy variants of POP with the overall fan base (as an example). As it is, give the reaction to Snake Man-At-Arms, I wonder if they are going to reevaluate what kind of variants they make in the future.

The Star Sisters are probably one of the few exceptions where it would have perhaps made sense to focus more on the toy designs. But only in the sense that the only people who really seem to deeply care about them are the toy line fans. Yes, I know about the tallying up of people's opinions about them, and there are a decent number of people who seem to be "okay" with them. I don't really hate the figures, and they will look fine on my shelf (once I get my collection reorganized... most of it is in boxes right now). But I also think that a lot of those people who are okay with the figures also wouldn't have been terribly upset had they not been made. And I wonder how well they would have sold had they not been included in the sub. I know they seemed to sell out in a decent amount of time (referring to the non-sub stock), but I don't think that many were produced outside of the sub. Mattel was already going to reduce production for this year, and it's a new 3-figure SKU that they had never done before. And there are quite a few people trying to unload their Star Sisters to no avail.

[Megalodon]

See if I collect I line I:

#1 Want to
#2 Like To
#3 Have to (Because I love the line so much)

But with QC issues,Scheduling problems and my biggest pet peeve (EXCLUSIVES of the figure that everyone wants NOT be a monthly figure) it kinda ****** people off some companies make the product people want and I don't care if another line is more popular etc. blah blah that's a cop out.

[mekaneckpain]

Before I get into the heart of my post, I want to preface by saying that I hope this thread doesn't come off snarky because that's not at all my intention. I'll admit, the paragraph following this one will be a bit preachy, but I'm just seriously trying to understand where some folks are coming from when they post certain dismissive responses, which sometimes kind of leave me feeling depressed and hopeless. I know. I know. It's 'just a toy line', but I guess this sort of stuff effects me on a deeper level, being that I view it in a broad real-world sort of context.

Basically this is what I would like your commentary on: Over the last few years, I've noticed a depressing trend to where I'm seeing posts that seem to be letting Mattel off-the-hook on honoring polls, campaigns, past statements etc. if it happens to be an item/area that doesn't particularly interest or effect those members, or it's something that ends up working in their favor... which, okay. I totally get that folks may have interests that differ from my own. I'm not expecting all these members to fight for stuff they're uninterested in. But what I don't get is... Why dismiss, blame and/or be annoyed with the fans who do care about these particular issues? Isn't that sending mixed messages to Mattel and just giving them more reasons to take advantage in other situations?

I'm just really confused.

Unfortunately, there are always going to be members on here that complain about the complainers. I suppose they have every right, just as we have a right to complain about Matty/DR for all there blunders. However, I agree that it would be more productive if we, as members, could show a bit more unity. But it will never happen, even some mods/admins will delete your thread if they disagree with what you believe in.

[Executioner]

Personally I like complaining about the those who complain about the complainers. To clarify, I'm not complaining about complaining, just the idea that we can't complain about those who complain when others complain.

[Darkspecter]

I have to say...I'm pretty offended by Dynamo of Eternia's post. There are a lot of reasons why, but specifically this paragraph:

I've heard arguments (from prior to the Filmation rights specifically being acquired) from that side, in reference to the style guide that (as far as we know) is what allowed Mattel to use the Filmation-like designs, saying that the figures shouldn't be based on some "obscure document", even though it was a legit, and completely legal loophole that allowed Mattel to use the obviously most popular designs. Some of the die hard toy POP fans love to just make this into a semantics argument by making these kinds of points. Sure, Mattel just shouldn't do what's going to sell to the best because of semantics and past statements. They should just take advice from people who aren't arguing things logically, but instead are just arguing all over the place to get what they want. It would be great advice to take if Mattel was looking for a way to run this line more poorly and cause even more problems with it and lost sales than already exist.

Mattel called the Styleguide the "obscure document" in their monthly Q&A's. That wasn't originated by 80's PoP toy fans, that was Mattel. They said it was a legal loophole they were not going to use (just like not making a female Horde Wraith as a loophole to do pseudo Shadow Weaver or movie coloured repaints of Man-At-Arms, etc.). They said the purpose of the MOTUC line was to base the characters on the figures they had in the 80's (if they were characters that were made previously).

Also, I don't think Mattel actually DID hold the rights to the Styleguide. The copyright on it was dated AFTER "Secret of the Sword" was in theaters. I pointed this out in a thread on MattyCollector's forums and it was locked and I was basically threatened via PM by a moderator over there (which is why I very rarely post on those boards anymore). None of this really matters now, since Mattel has access to Filmation through Classic Media.

Filmation designs do generally seem to be the most commonly known (at least via our online forums...1st year PoP figures outsold 1st year MOTU figures, so general people MAY remember the toys more...it's hard to say because everyone in our collecting communities are biased ). However, Filmation designs do not translate very well into figure form all the time (as we have seen). The designs for the cartoon are simplified forms of designs made for toys (because they could not animate that amount of detail at the time or flip the cels to re-use). The problem with using Filmation designs solely, were mainly prevalent in the Star Sisters (in my opinion). The 80's toys were very well thought out from the design and action features. Every Star Sister and Glory Bird contained translucent plastic parts, infused with glitter that linked them all together. It showed they were related, part of a team and was part of their "gimmick" (like all MOTU and PoP have). Starla had a star explosion back pack. Tallstar extended at the waist (her main growing feature). Jewelstar transformed into a jewel. All of these were their powers and were lost due to the design choice (which didn't link up to what the majority asked for via support threads, polls, Q&As, etc.). The Star Sisters were an "exception to the rule" as many Filmation fans agreed with.

Let's look at She-Ra and Adora though. The majority of people wanted, and got them, in their Filmation designs. A whole LOT of people are very unhappy with how plain and "bland" they look when compared to Teela. Teela is very detailed where Adora and She-Ra didn't have many details at all. In my personal opinion, this is because Teela was based off of a detailed toy and She-Ra and Adora were based off of the "simplified for animation use" designs.

Bubble Power She-Ra utilizes Filmation + 80's toy designs. She has the toy bracelets, boots and removable Bubble Power outfit. Her skirt and chest are Filmation. Her belt is somewhat new. The reaction of the Bubble Power outfit is mixed, but the Filmation/80's toy "hybrid" body underneath seems to be universally praised. I have seen a small number of people say they prefer the first She-Ra's non-detailed boots and bracelets, though.

My personal hope for the future of PoP in MOTUC is for them to make more hybrids, or give them TWO outfits in one (1 Filmation, 1 80's PoP) sort of like what they did with Queen Marlena.

I do not hate Filmation in any sense of the word. I LOVE all the He-Man and She-Ra cartoons (including NA)! PoP specifially, had an amazing story and cast. The episodes were very special and touched me. I do believe that a lot of those designs will not translate very well into MOTUC figures though because of the lack of details. 100% Filmation figures would look AWESOME in a Batman the Animated Series/Justice League Unlimited style of figures. Any animated cartoon line style, they would look fantastic in. This just isn't the style of MOTUC, though. To me, it's like when Mattel says that 200X is too "hyper anime detail." Filmation is too UNDETAILED for MOTUC. Look at Filmation He-Man and Skeletor vs their MOTUC counterparts. If the Filmation versions wer in MOTUC instead of the ones we got, they would look very out of place next to Beastman, Mer-Man, Man-At-Arms and Teela.

I fully respect everyone's likes and dislikes, but I find it highly insulting and degrading that because certain people like X over Y and believe/pay attention to what Mattel says they are labeled "illogical."

Finally, regarding the Swiftwind SDCC vote. Royal Swiftwind vs Pink Swiftwind was actually not too far off (which I found surprising), especially when two or more members here admitted to cheating in favour of Royal Swiftwind (one person voted 7 times...). There was at least one person who went around telling everyone who didn't care which colour Swiftwind was, to vote white as well. Seriously.

Royal White 64%
Classic Pink 36%

Royal Swiftwind only won by 28% over Pink. Now, regardless of which version of Swiftwind you wanted: Pink, Royal or Filmation...I find it INCREDIBLE that people can say it's 100% okay what Mattel did. They produced a version that Mattel kept telling us they would not make, as the vote was between Pink and Royal Swiftwind. Toyguru explained that it was because they thought they did not have access to him at the time. Fine. What should they have done? They should have held another vote with all three versions. Filmation may still have won, but at least it would have been legitimate. Right now, they threw all their customers votes in the garbage and told us they don't matter because of what they did. That's my uncensored opinion on that specific matter. Replace Swiftwind with Clawful, Ram-Man or something else and I think everyone will be a little more understanding on this matter.

/rant

EDIT: To answer Tallstar's question: yes.

[Zodach]

Basically this is what I would like your commentary on: Over the last few years, I've noticed a depressing trend to where I'm seeing posts that seem to be letting Mattel off-the-hook on honoring polls, campaigns, past statements etc. if it happens to be an item/area that doesn't particularly interest or effect those members, or it's something that ends up working in their favor... which, okay. I totally get that folks may have interests that differ from my own. I'm not expecting all these members to fight for stuff they're uninterested in. But what I don't get is... Why dismiss, blame and/or be annoyed with the fans who do care about these particular issues? Isn't that sending mixed messages to Mattel and just giving them more reasons to take advantage in other situations?

I'm just really confused.

I don't think I intend to dismiss or blame fans who do care about those particular issues, but as a multiple subscription purchaser I think my opinion is important also. That's why I make posts when those threads come up about subjects I have an opinion on. I am glad the Filmation version of Swiftwind was produced, I didn't like the Star Sisters, and I don't want to see variants of the Star Sisters or Songster in future subs. I want my voice to be heard also.

[mekaneckpain]

Personally I like complaining about the those who complain about the complainers. To clarify, I'm not complaining about complaining, just the idea that we can't complain about those who complain when others complain.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

[DJ_Convoy]

Of course they should be held accountable. it's a shame some don't understand that.

[slackrguy]

I hold Mattel accountable when I am unhappy with a product I buy from them. If there is a QC issue I cannot live with then I have my product replaced. The return/replacement is logged into their financials and will likely be included in a report (w/ others) somewhere down the line. I may make a comment about it on the .org, I may not. In that instance I do hold Mattel accountable, just in a less than public way.

I really enjoy my hobby of collecting MOTUC, it is the only line I collect atm. If there is something I like I may say it to provide a counter-point to others' concerns, not to be dismissive but to provide another view. I will let them off the hook if I feel they've made a smart decision, have shown improvement, or have left me pleased with a product. My view may be in direct opposition w/ one who is unhappy, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

Tallstar, i'm trying to come up with something to answer the dismissive/annoyed question of your original post and I'm just drawing blanks. All I can come up with is that maybe accountability is not the same for all of us. What one person wants accountability for another doesn't give two hoots about, or something like that.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Bubble Power She-Ra utilizes Filmation + 80's toy designs. She has the toy bracelets, boots and removable Bubble Power outfit. Her skirt and chest are Filmation. Her belt is somewhat new. The reaction of the Bubble Power outfit is mixed, but the Filmation/80's toy "hybrid" body underneath seems to be universally praised. I have seen a small number of people say they prefer the first She-Ra's non-detailed boots and bracelets, though.

But, with all due respect, this is sort of a straw-grasping counter point. Yes, I agree that the hybrid She-Ra made from BP She-Ra's body + the 'Filmation' head from the first figure makes a better looking She-Ra overall than just the first figure alone with that head, and the extra detailing (which, yes, did come from the old figure) certainly helps, but let's look at the reality of the situation.

The primary differences between the toy and cartoon versions of She-Ra are the designs of her tiara and blouse. Those are two completely different tiaras and completely different blouse designs. Those are the main things that really set them apart, and the main things that Filmation She-Ra fans are generally concerned about.

Yes, I think there was a basic consensus that from a detail standpoint the first She-Ra figure was rather lacking. And taking the details from the original toy's bracelets and boots worked fine because they didn't badly clash with the otherwise Filmation-like design of her blouse. And really, in a round-about way, having that kind of detailing on the figure is kind of similar to how the He-Man figure has the red squares on his harness and the designs on his gauntlets, but those things are missing in the Filmation cartoon. But none the less, both the toy and cartoon versions of He-Man are clearly based on the same basic design, while the two versions of She-Ra clearly are not.

The point is that outside of the more hardcore vintage POP toy fandom, most people are focused on the fact that the "hybrid" She-Ra is essentially a more detailed version of the Filmation design, and really couldn't care less whether those extra details came from the original figure or if it was something that the 4HM came up with on their own.

I see no reason not to use detailing of this nature from the toys when and where possible and applicable, if it just serves to fill in detail that is lacking from the cartoon design that most prefer.... but that's still a VERY different thing than when we run into situations like most of the 1st wave POP toy characters where their designs and/or coloring vastly differ from that of the 'toon, which most fans prefer. Far too often this kind of thing is used to create an argument that more people are in favor of toy designs (even and especially in cases of design conflict) than actually are.

My personal hope for the future of PoP in MOTUC is for them to make more hybrids, or give them TWO outfits in one (1 Filmation, 1 80's PoP) sort of like what they did with Queen Marlena.

I would have nothing against this if it is financially viable to do so.

I fully respect everyone's likes and dislikes, but I find it highly insulting and degrading that because certain people like X over Y and believe/pay attention to what Mattel says they are labeled "illogical."

Don't get me wrong here. I know it may seem otherwise, but I actually do respect that other people have different likes and dislikes, including yourself. There's nothing wrong with wanting the toy designs, and there's nothing wrong with tossing out suggestions (like the above 2 outfit idea) that my lead to there being options of that nature.

But there's what your preferences are and there's reality. Yes, Mattel has been all over the place in their statements on many things. I understand being generally frustrated over that. But that being said, there's also something called reading between the lines. There are cases where what Mattel is doing doesn't seem to make much sense and should be called into question, but there are times where what they do makes plenty of logical sense. And leaning more towards the Filmation designs over the toy designs is one such thing. Mattel recognizes that those are the more popular designs. And apparently at some point that found some kind of legal evidence (whether it was the style guide or something else) to show that they had the right to make those designs, and apparently they felt it was strong enough to actually use it and wasn't much of a shady loophole or anything like that.

There's nothing wrong with paying attention to what they say and questioning it. But at some point reality has to set in. They are in business to make money. Clearly they are going to produce items that they think will sell. If it comes to choosing between two different versions of a character, they are going to logically pick the one that most people want. And whether or not the other version comes out as a variant is going to depend on the demand for said variant. That's merely my point. It's not meant to be mean or offend, but it is meant to point out the logic of the situation in a straight forward, point blank manner. It's not meant to offend, but I can't really help it if it's an unfortunate side effect.

Finally, regarding the Swiftwind SDCC vote. Royal Swiftwind vs Pink Swiftwind was actually not too far off (which I found surprising), especially when two or more members here admitted to cheating in favour of Royal Swiftwind (one person voted 7 times...). There was at least one person who went around telling everyone who didn't care which colour Swiftwind was, to vote white as well. Seriously.

Royal White 64%
Classic Pink 36%

Royal Swiftwind only won by 28% over Pink. Now, regardless of which version of Swiftwind you wanted: Pink, Royal or Filmation...I find it INCREDIBLE that people can say it's 100% okay what Mattel did. They produced a version that Mattel kept telling us they would not make, as the vote was between Pink and Royal Swiftwind. Toyguru explained that it was because they thought they did not have access to him at the time. Fine. What should they have done? They should have held another vote with all three versions. Filmation may still have won, but at least it would have been legitimate. Right now, they threw all their customers votes in the garbage and told us they don't matter because of what they did. That's my uncensored opinion on that specific matter. Replace Swiftwind with Clawful, Ram-Man or something else and I think everyone will be a little more understanding on this matter.

Well, I doubt any cheating or padding was significant enough to skew the numbers by much. Sure, there's a bit more in favor of pink than to be expected, but still the number is small enough that it's hard to justify actually making the pink one.

Also, something else to consider is this. It's possible that at least some people who voted may have been voting based on the following logic: They may have preferred Filmation Swift Wind since he is the most iconic version of the character. But perhaps in thinking that the vote was between the original (pink) Swiftwind from the POP toy line and the actual Royal version, they may have voted for the pink one not so much because of the color specifically, but because that was the standard, regular version of Swiftwind from the line, and Royal was a later variant. The original pink Swiftwind toy, colors aside, had a basic saddle with wings thing going on. Colors aside, the design is at least on a bare-bones level reminicent of Filmation Swiftwind. By contrast, Royal Swiftwind has all kinds of extra armor, etc, that would look weird. It may have been a case of some people choosing design over color. They could even, if they are so inclined, repaint the pink one and get something that would at least approximate the Filmation look more so than they could in painting Royal Swiftwind's armor. This is all speculation on my part, of course, but it does make sense to an extent and may account for at least some of the votes.

Plus who's to say that there couldn't have been cases of the same people voting more than once on the pink side of things. Just because no one came out and admitted it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I would think there would be more motivation from the pink side of things to "pad" the votes since that was the underdog choice from the get-go. I honestly don't think there was too much of it going on either side, but I'm just saying that it's equally likely.

And perhaps a vote containing all 3 would have been in order, but it's pretty much a given that Filmation Swiftwind would have won out. And it's common knowledge that many people voted for Royal since he was the closest thing, at least color-wise, in the vote. So IMO Mattel did the right thing in "reading between the lines" and actually gave us what most fans wanted.



I really think one of the things that is going to plague this line in the long run is too much obscure stuff and unwanted variants being put into the mix. While it was and is cool when at times we get characters that weren't in previous lines and that we thought we might never get, it's starting to go a bit too far. Having listened to a few quasi-recent Roast Gooble episodes discussing some figures like Horde Prime, Snake MAA, and a few others, while the few people speaking on podcast may not necessarily represent the majority of opinions, the general reaction, as I recall, was kind of 'meh', and I think that really speaks to a lot of what's going on with this line. Sure there are likely some people excited about those figures. Heck, I don't personally hate Snake MAA and I actually like Horde Prime even if I wasn't clamoring for him, but I see the point none the less.

Mattel is pushing the subs more and more... to the point where there will apparently be little available outside of them. They are reducing the options that the cherry pickers have, and want everyone to buy it all blindly, all while mixing in what for many is a less than desirable amount of not highly desired or demanded characters and variants that they have no choice but to buy.

I'm actually on the fence about this as I'm both a subscriber and a completest with this line. And to an extent, I appreciate some of this kind of stuff. But even I have been starting to feel like it's getting to be a bit too much. Like I said earlier, I don't "hate" the Star Sisters, but it's not like I'd be kicking and screaming had they not been produced at all. And I know that some fans like to operate on the idea that if we buy it all, it will get everyone the obscure characters that they ultimately want... but if the only way to achieve that is for everyone to buy many, many figures that they can easily do without, then in a round-about way it's sort of like paying all of that money just to get the one or a very few desired figures.

I think this is at least part of why sub sales were down this year, and I won't be surprised if they are down a bit further next year. This doesn't mean that they have to give us all of the absolutely most popular characters that are yet to be released immediately, but perhaps the long term strategy with this line should be reevaluated, in which they should try to focus a bit more on the "meat and potatoes" and cut out some of the excess "parsley". People aren't going to want to be strong-armed into buying too many figures that they can do without. Mind you, this isn't specific to POP, but I think many of the POP toy designs would fall under this category.

[eurorko]

I will say that the quality control has been an issue recently. However, any figure that I have had a problem with I have gotten a replacement for from Matty with no issues. It does suck that we have to go through this from time to time. My biggest gripe so far has been the Goddess. She clearly was made poorly and there should be a newer version with better quality.

[Count Marzo]

It IS Mattel's property and they should be held accountable for everything under their belt aka Digital River, their Chinese factory vendors, MattyCollector.com, etc...

However if you ask me, the customer is NOT always right like that old saying goes. Especially when they don't know and understand the entire behind the scenes of the operation. This I know for a fact and from many years of experience.