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Thread: No More Vehicles - "Maybe in a movie year"

  1. #51
    Lord of Darkkbricks Darkkosis's Avatar
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    What an utter stupidity by Mattel! They're ruining the MOTU brand again and again by their incompetent managerial decisions! I can't believe a billion+ company cannot handle such a small niche line like this, of course they can, but they don't want to! It's not worth their hassle and resources!

    To me the line will never be worth collecting without a bunch of valuable vehicles and playsets! If you guys believe the line will survive strongly beyond 2014 with their sub-only, none vehicle, DR's immaculate crappy CS, you better think again...
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  2. #52
    Heroic Warrior
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    It seems the majority of customers want vehicles. If they make a decent amount and leave them for sale on Matty beyond the original sale day, they will shift them. People have to budget for these more expensive products. WR sold out in three days even though it was launched just before Christmas. Hey most of us are committed to buying Castle Grayskull!
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  3. #53
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    I'm not sure everyone's being realistic here.

    Just because the WR sold out does not mean Mattel made a profit. The first vehicle was clearly made to "test the waters".

    The speed of a sell-out is a predictor of how many would have sold. If something sells out in 1 minute, that might be a predictor that 5x as many would have sold. If it sells out in a day, that might be a predictor that 2x as many would have sold. And if it sells out in 3 days that might be a predictor that barely more would have sold than would have been produced.

    It would make sense to produce the WR in such numbers that, if it sold out, no profit would be made. Then, if it failed to sell out, no big loss would be incurred. And, if it sold out in some short period, that would predict sales of future vehicles being high (= profit making). Since the WR took so long to sell out, even though it did sell out, this may have told Mattel that there was not much profit to be had in vehicles. I think we should retire the trope that just because the WR sold out, it's a success. That's simply not true.

    Furthermore, it doesn't follow that if the WR was not a success, Mattel did something wrong, as some have suggested. Yes, they could have saved costs by removing the action feature or paint apps or whatever, but that too might have cost sales. Just because they can make something cheaper doesn't mean they'd have sold more of it. Many people might have refused to buy if it weren't as good as it is. There's a "sweet spot" where the cost to produce an item rakes in the maximal amount of cash from buyers. And it may be that even the sweetest spot for the WR turns no profit.

    Finally, even if the WR turned a profit, that doesn't mean Mattel should keep making vehicles. If it turned a small profit, other vehicles might end up in a loss. And even if it turned a medium-sized profit, that might not impress shareholders. A company only has the resources to produce so many widgets, and producing widgets X, Y, and Z that make lots of money is better than producing widgets A, B, and C that produce less money, even if both sets of widgets produce money.

    I think the real variable that will influence whether more vehicles are made is the secondary market price for the WR. If there really are significantly more people who want it than who bought it, it should sell for more on eBay. I glanced just now and none of the WRs up for auction had any bids on them. That's not very compelling to the execs.

  4. #54
    Heroic Warrior
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    I was hoping this would be a Matty-apologist free thread.

  5. #55
    scaly 2014 Subscriber! Dragonblaster's Avatar
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    Not sure if it would do any good... but how about a "we want vehicles" petition? I know petitions suck, but
    honestly - who would not want that badass Battle Ram?
    Press down on dragon's head. It will bite off your frickin' fingers !!!

  6. #56
    wants Dragstor!!! Sir Reilly's Avatar
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    So I'm not getting an awesome Battle Ram, cool Land Shark, amazing Roton and wonderful Talon Fighter. But I'm still supposed to spend 80 bucks + insane shipping and taxes on a big red dragon as well as the same for its green repaint and whatever else they might plan to re-use the mold for? How annoying.
    "Why's Dragstor riding on Night Stalker?" "Cause he can."

  7. #57
    Rider of the Night MyBroGotAllMyFigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Remember, TG said that WR was not produced in large numbers, so that plus the 3 day sellout is "underperforming".
    Still sold out so well that they had NO stock left for replacements. That's how much it underperformed. When He-Man and Beast-Man were first available at the very beginning of MOTUC, they lasted longer than WR did. It was a success. A 3-day sellout is STILL a sellout. Underperforming? Gee. They still sold out on their stock. Had they made twice as many, it might have taken twice as long, or maybe three times as long. Guess what, it would still have sold out in the end ANYWAY.

    TG's PR skills are insulting when he's at his best. I shudder to think of coming across the worst of his performance. I think the eldritch horror it would unleash on my mind would turn my brain into a shoggoth.

  8. #58
    I Love Filmation Variants TUC138's Avatar
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    May Be In A Movie Year ????????? Seriously Matty/TG ????

    Well, Give us Battle Ram (& Sky Sleds separately), Rotton & Land Shark first keep the rest for your "Movie Year" !!!

    We fans will be happy with 2 Hero & 2 Villan Vehicles till then !!!!

    Play-Sets For Air Battle : Wind Raider Vs Rotton

    Play-Sets For Road Battle : Battle Ram Vs Land Shark

    Bonus Air Vehicle From BR : Sky Sleds (Possibly In Green Repaints For The Villan’s In The Future)

    How Cool Is That ?????


    Seriously, these vehicles are MUST in MOTUC Line-Up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    THE BIGGEST, BADDEST SUPPORTER OF VARIANTS IN MOTUC..... JUST BEHIND MGM THAT IS !!

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  9. #59
    Heroic Warrior WDWFreak53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Remember, TG said that WR was not produced in large numbers, so that plus the 3 day sellout is "underperforming".

    I don't like it, but that's reality. I still hope for the Battle Ram which was always my favorite vehicle.
    Ok...so how can they say that it just "did okay" if they didn't make enough for demand? It sold out in 3 days. If they made 5000 more...maybe those would've sold out in 6 days. It's a sell-out. Now, on the flipside...if they just pulled the WR from matty and SAID that it sold out...then it's again, on them, because it's not available to sell more. Why would you only make enough (in a best case scenario...a sell-out) to just do "okay?" That doesn't sound like good management in my eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    I exhausted most of my logic-based destruction of how idiotic the "WR did okay" statement is in the other thread.
    But having since actually received the WR and experienced it first hand, it definitely stokes the annoyance.

    So while Toyguru is on his placate the fans by setting the record straight tour, he needs to revisit the Wind Raider nonsense if he ever has any hope of getting fans back on his side.

    The WR is easily one of the best MOTUC releases.
    Even to the point that non-MotU fans loved it, including top reviewer Michael Crawford who named it Best Vehicle/Playset of the year.

    This sort of prestige and accomplishment alone should outweigh any and all antiquated "how we define success" garbage.
    Exactly! This is promotion... Acclaims from sites that normally wouldn't deal with MOTUC are now talking about it...showing people how incredible this thing is. That must account from something! Consider it as advertising!!!!

  10. #60
    Heroic HamStar Minion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    You know I can't get mad anymore. I'm done with Mattel's PR, I will buy MOTUC because I love the line and the horsemen sculpts, whatever they make and I like I will buy. it just isn't worth the energy to get mad. we know their corporate stance, we know they don't believe in MOTU despite what it's done and we know the tried and true "Maybe ina movie year" spiel. I just can't get mad anymore. I will just enjoy what MOTUC is and not lament what it could be. I really think Spector was the last straw for my ire. argue with me if you wish but for me Spector represents what's WRONG at mattel. Not TG himself, but the "corporate before the consumer" mentality and the disconnect and lack of understanding of MOTU as a brand.

    I'm not done with the line, but I'm done with believing it will be more than it is now. (in fact I believe 2013 it will be less than it is now as we will likely go back to just figures.)
    I think you summed up my own feelings perfectly. I love MOTU and I love the Classics, but I can't get emotional hoping for more stuff or when things go wrong - which is far too often these days. It's too draining.

    I'll just receive my monthly stuff and enjoy what I do get.

  11. #61
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minion View Post
    I think you summed up my own feelings perfectly. I love MOTU and I love the Classics, but I can't get emotional hoping for more stuff or when things go wrong - which is far too often these days. It's too draining.

    I'll just receive my monthly stuff and enjoy what I do get.
    Thanks man, I am not trying to be negative either, just facing what I feel is the reality of Mattel handling this property and yeah, enjoying the toys I AM getting. (I'm also not being an apologist saying just be happy you get sOMETHING, things can be done a lot better, but I'm going to focus on enjoying the parts that ARE done right. if Idon't i will come to hate this hobby.
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  12. #62
    Heroic Warrior
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    I would have LOVED to buy a wind raider when it went on sale, but I didn't have money for it...I would say that if they released it at ANY other time than christmas, it would have sold out in 1 day. But what do i know?!

  13. #63
    Heroic Warrior DO4M's Avatar
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    Quick Question:
    OK, Did Mattel forgot the extra punishments to the Customers' Wallets regarding their Black Friday to Cyber Monday sale?Especially on Cyber Monday with their rotating schedule of items (With the multiplication of shipping costs due to multiple orders) Roughly 2 weeks before the Wind Raider sale...
    In addition to the whole December panic due to Demo-Man-gate
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  14. #64
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    I don't know if anyone pointed out yet, but - as just stated in TG's blog - He-Man and the first few figures did okay too.
    Did they decide to stop and do more figures in a movie year?
    No, they kept doing them and the line picked up.
    Are the vehicles different? Sure they cost more and have almost no mold reuse, but at the same time they aren't doing 12 a year.
    If they went by the same logic, we wouldn't have had many more figures... Why can't just try a bit harder and don't expect immediate sell outs since the beginning.
    It took sometime before the line become popular, so we just got a taste of the vehicles. Just by looking at the history of the line, we should maybe assume Battle Ram will sell more, not less than the Wind Raider!

  15. #65
    Heroic Warrior Seril's Avatar
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    Personally I hope they stay gone. They're neat but way too expensive. The wind raider was the only one I considered and had any interest in on getting but I passed. Less vehicles = more tooling money for figures as far as I can tell (though I admit I don't know what mattel's MOTUC budget breakdown looks like).
    Right or wrong, buying a sub tells Mattel you want more MOTUC figures. Not buying does tells them you don't. Don't let MOTUC end early because you might not like their marketing strategy! Plus polls show you won't regret subbing!

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  16. #66
    Heroic Warrior Steph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squidish Tex View Post
    I'm not sure everyone's being realistic here.

    Just because the WR sold out does not mean Mattel made a profit. The first vehicle was clearly made to "test the waters".

    The speed of a sell-out is a predictor of how many would have sold. If something sells out in 1 minute, that might be a predictor that 5x as many would have sold. If it sells out in a day, that might be a predictor that 2x as many would have sold. And if it sells out in 3 days that might be a predictor that barely more would have sold than would have been produced.

    It would make sense to produce the WR in such numbers that, if it sold out, no profit would be made. Then, if it failed to sell out, no big loss would be incurred. And, if it sold out in some short period, that would predict sales of future vehicles being high (= profit making). Since the WR took so long to sell out, even though it did sell out, this may have told Mattel that there was not much profit to be had in vehicles. I think we should retire the trope that just because the WR sold out, it's a success. That's simply not true.

    Furthermore, it doesn't follow that if the WR was not a success, Mattel did something wrong, as some have suggested. Yes, they could have saved costs by removing the action feature or paint apps or whatever, but that too might have cost sales. Just because they can make something cheaper doesn't mean they'd have sold more of it. Many people might have refused to buy if it weren't as good as it is. There's a "sweet spot" where the cost to produce an item rakes in the maximal amount of cash from buyers. And it may be that even the sweetest spot for the WR turns no profit.

    Finally, even if the WR turned a profit, that doesn't mean Mattel should keep making vehicles. If it turned a small profit, other vehicles might end up in a loss. And even if it turned a medium-sized profit, that might not impress shareholders. A company only has the resources to produce so many widgets, and producing widgets X, Y, and Z that make lots of money is better than producing widgets A, B, and C that produce less money, even if both sets of widgets produce money.

    I think the real variable that will influence whether more vehicles are made is the secondary market price for the WR. If there really are significantly more people who want it than who bought it, it should sell for more on eBay. I glanced just now and none of the WRs up for auction had any bids on them. That's not very compelling to the execs.
    Very nice post!

  17. #67
    King Hiss vs Serpentor ksensor's Avatar
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    I just wish they'd made Stridor or Night Stalker first, so they would have an obvious re-use. Sure, they probably aren't as "core" as Wind Raider, but that would've at least addressed the Matty Leadership's concerns about tooling cost vs potential profit.

  18. #68
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    Dear fellow forum members,


    The truth is we'll see the new reveals soon (on Sunday, normally), and I bet this will bring new hopes. Then, we'll have the February sales day... and I think that this will brutally bring people back to the harsh reality.

    Just you wait and see...

  19. #69
    Heroic Warrior WDWFreak53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seril View Post
    Personally I hope they stay gone. They're neat but way too expensive. The wind raider was the only one I considered and had any interest in on getting but I passed. Less vehicles = more tooling money for figures as far as I can tell (though I admit I don't know what mattel's MOTUC budget breakdown looks like).
    I'm not exactly sure that's how it works...

    I think they have the allocated funds for the figures...but vehicles fall under a different SKU so they would have their own budget.
    (AKA, if there was a loss on vehicles, I don't believe it would affect the figures). Not 100% sure on that though.

    (But, at the same time, I think the money FOR the vehicles comes from the profits of the figures)

  20. #70
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksensor View Post
    I just wish they'd made Stridor or Night Stalker first, so they would have an obvious re-use. Sure, they probably aren't as "core" as Wind Raider, but that would've at least addressed the Matty Leadership's concerns about tooling cost vs potential profit.
    From what I recall, Mattel considers Stridor and Night Stalker beasts.

  21. #71
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    Why cant they just do what they do with all their other lines & Either Repaint the wind Raider or tool some new parts to make either a specialized Wind raider or an Evil one. dont tell me they are really that stupid. Gods look how many times Hasbro reuses & retools molds

  22. #72
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squidish Tex View Post
    I'm not sure everyone's being realistic here.

    Just because the WR sold out does not mean Mattel made a profit. The first vehicle was clearly made to "test the waters".
    .
    they made their profit on it. the problem to management was they wanted a 30min sellout not a 3 day sellout. that's it. Scott said it upper management wanted it to sell faster, thus they considered it 'just okay'. if they didn't make a profit it was their fault for not costing it out right from the inception stage, but as per scott the problem was the 3 days vs less than a day.
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  23. #73
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    As unbelievable as it may sound, I personally think we're at a crossroads in the line where it makes more financial sense to do individual variant Star Sisters outside of the subscription, instead of another massive tool-heavy vehicle. I use them as the immediate examples, because most of the tooling is already there for them, some of which cannot be easily reused on any other characters, they actually make sense as variants and Mattel is saying they did very well on day-of sales too...so why not? It may even help generate the funds for vehicles. Despite what some folks are saying about not being interested, I think they would actually sell quite nicely.

    The reason Mattel was able to push on with MOTUC when He-Man only did "okay" is because they probably had a lot of the tooling made and management cut them some slack since the line was just getting off the ground vs. Wind Raider coming in a peak sales year in MOTUC. (2011) Now that subscriptions have dipped, it's more likely MOTUC would continue that trend instead of reverting back to or exceeding 2011 sales. Not saying it's impossible (maybe the MetLife ad will help sales), but they're probably being cautious.
    Last edited by Tallstar; February 6, 2012 at 10:50am.

  24. #74
    Heroic Warrior mjw41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squidish Tex View Post
    I'm not sure everyone's being realistic here.

    Just because the WR sold out does not mean Mattel made a profit. The first vehicle was clearly made to "test the waters".

    The speed of a sell-out is a predictor of how many would have sold. If something sells out in 1 minute, that might be a predictor that 5x as many would have sold. If it sells out in a day, that might be a predictor that 2x as many would have sold. And if it sells out in 3 days that might be a predictor that barely more would have sold than would have been produced.

    It would make sense to produce the WR in such numbers that, if it sold out, no profit would be made. Then, if it failed to sell out, no big loss would be incurred. And, if it sold out in some short period, that would predict sales of future vehicles being high (= profit making). Since the WR took so long to sell out, even though it did sell out, this may have told Mattel that there was not much profit to be had in vehicles. I think we should retire the trope that just because the WR sold out, it's a success. That's simply not true.

    Furthermore, it doesn't follow that if the WR was not a success, Mattel did something wrong, as some have suggested. Yes, they could have saved costs by removing the action feature or paint apps or whatever, but that too might have cost sales. Just because they can make something cheaper doesn't mean they'd have sold more of it. Many people might have refused to buy if it weren't as good as it is. There's a "sweet spot" where the cost to produce an item rakes in the maximal amount of cash from buyers. And it may be that even the sweetest spot for the WR turns no profit.

    Finally, even if the WR turned a profit, that doesn't mean Mattel should keep making vehicles. If it turned a small profit, other vehicles might end up in a loss. And even if it turned a medium-sized profit, that might not impress shareholders. A company only has the resources to produce so many widgets, and producing widgets X, Y, and Z that make lots of money is better than producing widgets A, B, and C that produce less money, even if both sets of widgets produce money.

    I think the real variable that will influence whether more vehicles are made is the secondary market price for the WR. If there really are significantly more people who want it than who bought it, it should sell for more on eBay. I glanced just now and none of the WRs up for auction had any bids on them. That's not very compelling to the execs.
    That was a very well thought out statement that I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by ksensor View Post
    I just wish they'd made Stridor or Night Stalker first, so they would have an obvious re-use. Sure, they probably aren't as "core" as Wind Raider, but that would've at least addressed the Matty Leadership's concerns about tooling cost vs potential profit.
    Scott has said that Stridor & Night Stalker fall into the beast catagory not vehicles so we have a very good shot at getting these

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    As unbelievable as it may sound, I personally think we're at a crossroads in the line where it makes more financial sense to do individual variant Star Sisters outside of the subscription, instead of another massive tool-heavy vehicle. I use them as the immediate examples, because most of the tooling is already there for them, some of which cannot be easily reused on any other characters, they actually make sense as variants and Mattel is saying they did very well on day-of sales too...so why not? It may even help generate the funds for vehicles. Despite what some folks are saying about not being interested, I think they would actually sell quite nicely.

    The reason Mattel was able to push on with MOTUC when He-Man only did "okay" is because they probably had a lot of the tooling made and management cut them some slack since the line was just getting off the ground vs. Wind Raider coming in a peak sales year in MOTUC. (2011) Now that subscriptions have dipped, it's more likely MOTUC would continue that trend instead of reverting back to or exceeding 2011 sales. Not saying it's impossible (maybe the MetLife ad will help sales), but they're probably being cautious.
    Tallstar come on man this thread is about Vehicles not your wanted toy catalog look for the star sisters. We all know how you feel about the star sisters so lets keep this thread on track which is Vehicles please?
    Last edited by mjw41; February 6, 2012 at 10:59am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  25. #75
    Beast of 1000 Bottles Hordaiquiri's Avatar
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    Well, technically...

    - 2012 is a year.
    - Movies are coming out.

    Soooo, it is technically what we would call a "movie year".

    C'mon get those factories crankin'! We need that Battle Ram!

    Eh? Eh?

    No?

    Well I tried.

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