Great hearing James again! He and Rob need to be permanent members of the team!
I think poor Hackin Tim Seeley took more of a pounding than Scotty Toyguru ever has (on a podcast that is), but that's because you guys obviously know your comics inside and out! Me? I just read em and look at the cool artwork.
Another thing I agree with is Dan on the potential movie. It has me trembling with terror if we get a MOTU movie. I just know it will be bad for us, hardcore/lifelong fans. Just like the Transformers and G.I. Joe movies damaged my love for those franchises I grew up with (Transformers wayyy more btw). Although, I'm not a movie guy to begin with. I don't watch too many and I never really did except when I was younger. I NEVER give them a fair chance anymore. Hollywood became godawful to me earlier this decade and I barely even went to the theatres at all since and if I did...it took a lot of convincing from others as well as intoxicants.
Great hearing James again! He and Rob need to be permanent members of the team!
Those plagiarism stories are funny Dynamo, especially the college one! LOL! It's amazing that he even thought he could get away with that!
Hmm, but is Demo-Man still sentient inside Skeletor - i.e. a prisoner subjugated by Skeletor's will - or was Demo-Man entirely done away with after his power was transferred over to Skelly? If it's the latter, then I'd say it's less of a merging of beings and perhaps more of a transfer of power from one to the other.Originally Posted by Toyguru
I agree about the complexity of Keldor. There's a lot going on with a character like that.
A lot of good stuff in this episode. One thing I really agree with is something I think Dan said; Why is it necessary to explain every figure's existence in the same canon? Why can't it just be 'Concept He-Man' or 'Mini-Comic' Skeletor? It just feels when they try to combine all the existing medias into one canon, it becomes convoluted. It also goes hand in hand with what Val said about their being multiple incarnations of other 80's properties while MOTU has been pretty much the same thing over and over. In my mind, there's just different versions of He-Man - the mini-comics, Filmation, MYP, etc.
Totally gone. Keldor was bonded with Demo-Man but the process left him mad. Once he gained control again (of himself) he absorbed all there was of Demo-Man gaining greater control over magical energies. Now he is a power boosted physically changed man called Skeletor. Keldor is no more. Demo-Man is no more.
Or is he....
Last edited by Toyguru; February 7, 2012 at 01:46am.
I like the idea that Keldor is still part of him though. That adds some interesting layers. He's part of the royal lineage so that blood (He-Man's blood) runs through his veins too.
Good episode guys, glad to get back to some bio talk, they're usually my favourite RGD's
I have to say I really wouldn't want a figure of the the son of Skeletor.
When Evil Lyn takes there son to the future I'd like to think she leaves him with the Faceless one, that's a nice idea I think.
If Skeletor just absorbs Demo-Mans power then IMO thats a much better way to think about it then having Demo-Mans spirit trapped inside Skeletors body.
Dan's concerns on a new movie pretty much echo my own. It may be good for brand awareness and such but more likely then not its going to be a terrible film.
I also agree with Val's comments about the brand having one definitive look. If you look at other brands, Transformers, Thundercats, Turtles, GI Joe, Marvel and DC, even Star Wars, they all have a few different looks/styles and continuities. I wish MOTU could do the same and I have 200x (stactions, comics) along side the Classics (figures and comics), and even worse yet I'd hate a new movie style to kill off the Classics.
Last edited by 13977; February 8, 2012 at 04:24pm.
MOTUC NA Most Wanted: Darius, Kayo, Vizar, Hoove, Lizorr
Trade my Red Stone He-Ro Staff for a Green one
I think the inclusion of Demo-Man helps connect these two conflicting canons quite nicely myself
I think I'll give this episode a try...but I'm a bit confused about Keldor/Demo-Man = Skeletor now. If Skeletor still has Keldor's personality, why did he become a "monster" personality-wise and no longer care about Evil-Lyn at all, like he once did. That seems to contradict.
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Great episode! I was cracking up at some parts, really makes my long work day go by faster
I TOTALLY agree on Dan's point about making some of these concept art characters. BG Teela is DC comics Teela. Oo-lar is freaking he-man without shoes. I can kind of get into Demo-man a bit I guess because it is just adding another element to Skeletor's bio, although tying the mini comic scene of trying to open a portal to his dimension in was kind of silly. But in the end you can just display them however you want.
I do like the idea of Skeletor/Keldor being a more complicated villian. One thing I love in the bios is that you can make the case that Keldor should be on the throne and got screwed over. I like villians to be complicated and have real motivations for what they do. Filmation Skeletor is fine for a kids cartoon, but as an adult I want more to my villians than a evil laugh and a desire to stop those "do gooders". Infact I find the entire idea that someone would be walking around calling themselves "evil" is silly. I think that even the badguys think that what they do is right and that their way is the best way. "I got screwed out of the throne" is a much more serious motivation than "I'm tying Teela to these train tracks because I'm EEEEEVIL!"
another great show! ...
i agree with penny on the she-ra stuff ... colour me 'vintage purist' because when i have all of the vintage MOTU figures, im done ... im not interested in POP at all, this is why i think mattel will hang a few of the vintage characters back until the 'end' of the line (if it ever ends or if we even get that far ...) ... i know this theory has been brought up time and time again, but i do agree with it ...
on the subject of the battle-ground evil-lyn bio; i kind of like the idea of skeletor and evil-lyn being an 'item' at some point ... we get a hint of this in the '87 movie when skeletor is holding evil-lyns face in a kind of soul-searching way (if you like the movie i guess you will know which scene i am referencing) which does imply some sort of past (or current) romantic connection ... however, this was something that was never expressed in the cartoon - probably because it was a bit too 'deep' for the tone of the show ...
and, on the subject of the movie - i totally agree with james on the use of the cosmic key in the MOTUC storyline/canon ... the free-use of the key takes away the magic and importance of the key that we saw in the '87 movie, and also diminishes gwildors role ... for me, the key should have remained a bit more sacred ...
''He-Man lives and possesses that key, I must possess all or I possess nothing!'' (Skeletor, 1987)
USE YOUR ILLUSION
I generally agree with what Dan said about concept characters or character variations being just that and nothing more. However, I've got to stick up for Scott on this Demo-Man bio, believe it or not. I'm generally not a big fan of this compulsion to merge every continuity ever into one "cohesive" story, but if you are going to go that route, this bio seems pretty well done to me. It not only nicely ties together ever major Skeletor origin variation of which I'm aware, it also provides the opportunity to give some relevance to the original Skeletor concept.
When I initially read it, I took it exactly how Scott has tried to clarify it in this thread. I never saw it simply as Keldor getting Demo Man's power transferred to him. Keldor and Demo-man were two beings merged into one. However, the pysche of both Demo-Man and Keldor could not co-exist within the same mind for long. The chaos in Skeletor's head (skull) because of this battle of wills led to the temporary insanity mentioned in the bio. Eventually, there was only one persona that could remain and the other had to be destroyed forever. When the madness came to an end, it was Keldor who emerged the victor and Demo-Man was no more.
My problem with Demo-Man's bio is something altogether different: It doesn't tell us who Demo-Man is. This is more like Skeletor's Bio Part II. Since merging apparently increased Keldor's power ten fold, Demo-Man was presumably crazy powerful. It would have been nice to know how and why he was so amazing.
BG Evil-Lyn's bio.... yeeeah, straight up hate everything about it. Period. Sorry Scott. I would have liked it better if the bio had simply said "Hey, this is Evil-Lyn after she got over her jaundice."
Haven't listened to the Swiftwind part yet, but being a big She-ra fan I'm excited to hear what you all have to say about him.
Add in that "Demo-Man" is not really a concept Skeletor (but more a concept Beast Man, and later, Megator) and it just makes things unnecessarily convoluted.
Plus there's no consistency. Why does "Demo-Man" have to be part of Skeletor, but Vikor has to be a completely separate character?
Shouldn't there be a similarly convoluted story about how He-Man went to the Ice Mountains and a spell turned his hair black, or whatever?
Regardless, the end result is with Vikor you have people largely going "OK, cool" and with "Demo-Man" you have fans rolling their eyes because not only are you mucking further with the main villain of the entire mythos, you're undermining Mark Taylor's cool design by not giving it its proper due, proper unique personality.
*Tricky subject--some characters who are well known by everyone are worse off, like Optimus Prime -- you might know G1 cartoon Prime, but your mother or girlfriend knows of the hardcore "I'll kill them all!" Bayformers Prime.
The Blonde Teela Thread
The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn Thread
Sagitar (Jetlag) • Horde Wraiths • Azdar • Belzar • Chazdar • Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn • 200X Teenage Prince Adam • 200X Teenage Teela • 200X Sorceress • General Rattlor (MYP) • 200X King Randor and Queen Marlena • 200X Battle Armor King Randor and Battle Armor Queen Marlena • Ice Armor He-Man • WMD Roboto
In the BG Evil-Lyn bio a son of her and Keldor/Skeletor was discussed. It reminds me of a discussion about the origin of Teela. It was asked why is Teela a clone of the Sorceress and not the daughter of Duncan or Fisto. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, the answer that was given was something like this is a family line and it cannot be implied that the Sorceress had gotten pregnant and had a child out of wed-lock or something to that effect. Now, we get to the son of Keldor and I don’t remember anything being mentioned about Evil-Lyn and Keldor getting married. So why does it work with one but not the other? And please, if I am way off, someone correct me.
A journey that began long ago in a place neither near nor far…
A story of heroes, passed down through the ages…
This is our story. These are our heroes…
On a different note altogether, the gooble is missing a certain controversial voice of the voiceless pipe bomb cast member...perhaps it needs some Vertigo :O
Okay, I just started listening to these (finally), so I've been catching up on them, and I just listened to this one, and Val, I understand your point of view about the Ultimate Battleground, and how the second one takes the wind out of the "Ultimate Battleground's" sails, but remember when we had the first World War, at the time, it was called "The War to End All Wars," so there is a historical precedent for this kind of hyperbole. On that note, I think if the stories handle these Ultimate Battlegrounds like World War stories involving both the big picture of factions and tactics, as well as the personal stories of the individuals and the hardships of war, I can see this working. Whether or not this can be done well in the tiny and spread out bios, I question, but if there was a new media (cartoon, comics, or my preference, a live action, single [multiple if possible] season HBO series), I could really see it working. That said, I hope a new movie series doesn't try to tackle this, because it wouldn't be long enough to do it right, and I'd rather see something smaller and more focused.
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