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  1. #1
    Heroic Warrior fireball13z's Avatar
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    TG Blog #4 Skeletor!

    Please keep all comments on topic of the blog.

    http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve...7/m/3451043247

    Skeletor.

    Possibly our most popular character (hey, everyone knows the bad guys are way cooler vs. the good guys). Skeletor was loaded up with accessories, given a brand new paint job by the Horsemen and was ready to bring the conflict factor to MOTUC (sure, fans already had Beast Man, but Skelly was the real adversary for our new line!).

    Skeletor was also one of our first big PR pushes. After a call to my buddies at Toy Fare magazine (sniff…rest in peace, you wonderful mag, you!) and after some haggling and negotiating we managed to land the cover to the Oct 2008 issue with a huge shot of the new Classics Skeletor surrounded by fire and smoke. A very cool shot (and I still have the cover framed on my desk at work!). The issue also included an interview with me, Mattel design, and a side bar with the Horsemen.

    It is actually a bit surprising looking back that this was the first and last MOTUC cover we ever got with Toy Fair mag before it went big A-way in Jan 2011 (more on our planned, but never executed, Preternia cover with Megator when we get to his blog entry in a few months).

    It is funny, going back and rereading the interview in this issue it is cool to see how much of our wishes for the line came true. Every single figure we listed in the interview as wanting to see has now been done! Even the Horsemen’s pick “Bow” made it into the line after about a year. Funny how time flies.

    Anyway, back to Skeletor. There actually isn’t much more to say about him that hasn’t been covered in the last few blogs. Obviously, he introduced the new “reptile body” (that is what the vintage line called this body type and we swiped the name) as well as the Havoc staff and Skeletor armor (which could be later used for Faker).

    Skeletor also introduced the new corrected human shoulders that were reversed on King Grayskull and He-Man (although not many fans took notice of this error until Skeletor came out and they had a comparison model). But man, were we embarrassed. Let's just hope this never happens again… (oh wait-crud!).

    We also went back and forth on the paint ops on Skeletor’s head. First, there was not enough green, then we had too much. I think the final figure hit it very well, but it was distinctly different from the deco on the vintage figure’s head. This was something we were eventually able to add with the Battle Armor Skeletor from 2011. And by having swappable heads from Day 1, it ensured that long time fans could mix and match parts to create their “ultimate” version of any character. This would be a feature we would later put to use with Bubble Power She-Ra, but I digress.

    Skeletor was also significant early on because of his rather quick sell out. Well, quicker compared to He-Man and Beast Man, that is. Both of the previous figures were available for (if I remember right…) well over a month. Skeletor, if I recall, sold out in about 3 weeks and was the first time a figure was not available for the next month’s sale. So fans who wanted to wait a few months and then buy a few figures at once to save on shipping were out of luck. And this pretty much directly translated to a super fast sell-out of Stratos.

    While we never intended for 5 minute sell-outs, this certainly helped to kick start the full year’s line and give management the “proof” they needed that the line could be a hit.

    After Skeletor’s sell-out, we quickly started looking into what a full year of product could look like. We knew we had spent most of our annual tooling on the first 6 figures (and with them, three 100% tool’d body types) so that meant the remaining figures (if the line was going to be expanded) would need to be very minimal tooling. What was nice is that the vintage line had already set a precedent for shared parts. So applying this to Classics (as I stated in a previous blog) would not make it look like we were going cheap, but rather we were paying homage to the vintage line.

    After Skeletor’s sell-out, we got the green light for two more monthly figures. Mer-Man became the obvious choice since he was minimal new tooling and was one of the "original 8." After that, we wanted to stretch out a bit and went for the gold with Hordak. He wasn’t that much more tooling, but the new parts would really give us a lot of bang for our buck.

    Pretty much at this point we thought Hordak would be the very last figure in the line. So hey, if we had to go out with a bang, at least we got to the “other” main villain.

    It was also about this time that we finalized out plans to go to NYCC in February, and this time we wanted to bring a MOTUC figure with us. We had pretty much zero tooling available so the obvious choice was to do Faker.

    Now Faker has an odd history in the modern lines because he was a NYCC-exclusive for Classics and a mail-away figure in the 200X line. I’ve seen a lot of fans taking issue with this but really taking a step back, he was the choice for both promotions (mail-away and NYCC item) BECAUSE he was a deco-only option.

    Both projects had such small budgets that they required a deco-only figure for the slot. So it is not a prejudice against Faker or anything (as some fans insist), he just has the unique quality of being a deco-only character and therefore working for both promotions.

    I’m totally off track at this point. More on Faker when I get to his entry. Back to Skeletor.

    Actually, there really isn’t much more to tell. We developed Skeletor (as stated previously) at the same time that we developed the other “original 6.” His quick sell-out was the key to green lighting the next two figures (Mer Man and Hordak, who both got moved around in the schedule a bit). But other than that, there really isn’t much more to tell.

    The key was that the line was finding its fan base and really starting to take off. With the next figure, Stratos, it became crystal-clear that we had a hit on our hands and it was time to start thinking long term, both in terms of character roll-out and creating bios for all the characters. But I’ll get into that in the next entry.

    Oh, there is one more thing to hit on with Skeletor – his bio and the mention of the infamous “Demo-Man!"

    So one of the things we hoped to do with the bios (other than justify the greatest number of figures) was to use them to seed ideas and concepts for future figures and storylines. We had hoped to one day get to a figure based on the concept art for the vintage line. We didn’t want to just call these characters “concept art He-Man” like Star Wars did back in 2007 with their Ralph line. Instead, we wanted to make all of the concept characters fully marketable and merchandisable characters on their own. We could have gone in either direction, and I know there are many fans who would have preferred we went with “concept art He-Man/Skeletor” for the eventual Vikor and Demo-Man figures released in 2011, but by making them both original stand-alone characters, we now had two more characters in our arsenal that could be merchandised and marketed to a new generation of fans and kids. And hey, the bios are there to embrace or ignore. If any fan/customer wants to just call Demo-Man “concept Skeletor” on their shelf, that is just as valid!

    When I was doing all of my MOTU research between King Grayskull’s release and He-Man’s on-sale date, I was able to locate a few pieces of early art and a few early production memos. In many of these early drafts, Skeletor was called “Demo-Man” as well as “D-Man.” This was both a parallel to “He-Man” (D-Man/He-Man) as well as a nod to Skeletor’s original origin that was a demon from another dimension. (Love that classic panel in the first mini-comic where Skeletor is leading an army of Skeletor-looking demons through a portal to Eternia! How cool is that!).

    Because so many of the vintage stories contradict each other, we basically wanted to choose the best elements from each and incorporate them into the bios. By making Demo-Man the being that was merged with Keldor to become Skeletor, it was a great way of legitimizing Demo-Man as a stand-alone character, tying him into Skeletor’s origin and paying homage to that first mini-comic story with a completely different origin for Skeletor compared to his more well-known Filmation and 200X stories. This story (as told in the bios) was not supposed to replace the older continuity or stories from mini comics or cartoons, but much like competitive brands like Joe or Transformers that reinvent themselves every few years, this was an all new storyline that in this case used some of the best parts of many other stories as a way of telling a new story that justified the greatest number of figures in the end.

    And as an added bonus, by slipping Demo-Man into Skeletor’s bio, some fans actually started “asking for a Demo-Man figure” (while others begged us never to do one!). Either way, this was out first big proof of how important these bios were being treated by fans. We knew we could now use them as a tool to justify more figures (the main goal) and to entertain fans, and give them some type of content in lieu of a cartoon or comic book, which were just not in the cards at the time.

    Due to a copyright error, the name Demo-Man was actually left off of the original bio card. We added it back into the online bio once the name cleared and when we went into a second run of Skeletor down the road, the bio was G-changed as well (that is the term for changing a package look).

    Demo-Man would go on to be one of the most controversial elements of Skeletor’s bio. But in the end, much like the introduction of Keldor as his real name, a portion of fans have grown to accept and honor this addition to the lore. While we knew we were in no way going to please everyone, it really became a great way of building the line and justifying more toys (which we did when we made a Demo-Man figure in December of 2011 -- okay, well, he didn’t ship until January 2012, but you know what I mean!).

    With Skeletor’s success behind us and two more figures green-lit (and a third new NYCC deco-change figure), it was time to start looking at this line long-term. We knew we needed a long-term rollout to ensure we didn’t run out of steam too quickly (as happened with the Staction line in 2003) and that the bios did not come across as “we are making this up as we go along").

    Now was the time to kick it into high gear.

    Until next time,

    Scott
    the ignore list is my new best friend

  2. #2
    Heroic Hyperborean NorthCoast's Avatar
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    Great blog, I really enjoy these so keep them coming!

    Quote Originally Posted by fball13z View Post
    (Love that classic panel in the first mini-comic where Skeletor is leading an army of Skeletor-looking demons through a portal to Eternia! How cool is that!).
    Uh oh, not this one again!

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    Heroic Warrior MILK-MAN's Avatar
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    Another good read from TG. I enjoy these!

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    Heroic Warrior bigsexy_j's Avatar
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    I'm going to go check for that Toyfare as well to reread the interview as well.

    J

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    Heroic Warrior snakeeyes0217's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing, ToyGuru. At least knowing the thought behind some of these controversial decisions hopefully makes them easier to swallow for fans.

    While I personally will never accept the Keldor storyline, it's nice to see that you're keeping the original mini comics in mind. That image of Skeletor's army from the other dimension has always been one of my favorites as well. That demon-headed scabbard from that image would make a great accessory for a future figure too...

    111_full.jpg

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    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    If this is the same issue of ToyFare I'm thinking of, Spinnerella, Peekablue, Gwildor, and Kowl didn't get made yet.

  7. #7
    No Rio? We Riot! TheFallen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyguru
    which we did when we made a Demo-Man figure in December of 2011 -- okay, well, he didn’t ship until January 2012
    And still hasn't arrived in February 2012

  8. #8
    Alcala Idolator Crusader's Avatar
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    So fans who wanted to wait a few months and then buy a few figures at once to save on shipping were out of luck.
    I remember like it was yesterday. Had to fork out quite some dime to get them afterwards.
    "A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked."

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    Heroic Warrior
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    lol @ being multiple Skeletors...yeah no.

  10. #10
    Heroic Warrior
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    Great read as always. I'm still confused, because we saw Mer Man & Zodac at SDCC 2008 before that issue of ToyFare came out. And I swear the whole outline of what the Classics line was gonna be was stated during their fan panel/slide show. What was the point of them saying that Classics was gonna be a line comprising of vintage MOTU, POP, NA, 200X, mini-comics, and concept characters if his talking that the line was still looking like only 3 figures getting the green light and maybe another 4 after the success of Skeletor. What am I missing here?
    Last edited by grenadaspice; February 15, 2012 at 09:26pm.

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    Great read as always. I'm still confused, because we saw Mer Man & Zodac at SDCC 2008 before that issue of ToyFare came out. And I swear the whole outline of what the Classics line was gonna be was stated during their fan panel/slide show. What was the point of them saying that Classics was gonna be a line comprising of vintage MOTU, POP, NA, 200X, mini-comics, and concept characters if his talking that the line was still looking like only 3 figures getting the green light and maybe another 4 after the success of Skeletor. What am I missing here?
    That's what I'm confused about also. That, and how many times have we been told all these bios where planned out since the very beginning, and that they where leading somewhere? Well, if they only intended on a few fan figures, why did they make this "road map" of bio's if they never intended to use them?

    Now I'm thinking that was just their reply to the fans saying they must have wrote each one on the spot. Maybe I'm just not remembering right, which is most likely the case I admit. But it was a great read Scott, thanks!

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    Heroic Warrior Wonder Princess's Avatar
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    I am really enjoying these. Keep 'em coming, Scott.
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    Court Magician The Mound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCreviews4628 View Post
    That's what I'm confused about also. That, and how many times have we been told all these bios where planned out since the very beginning, and that they where leading somewhere?
    I believe that the standard statement is that they were planned out since Stratos, which is near the beginning but far enough in that they were pretty confident the line would go somewhere.

    'Tis a great read! I don't think that it is so much "revisionist history" as it is Scott's memory and perspective, but I also tend to take him at his word. Perhaps if Terry, Cornboy, and others involved charted their memories, it would look a little different. But isn't that the same with anything?

    Keep 'em coming, Toyguru! Most of us appreciate them!

  14. #14
    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    So that was the reason Hordak was so early in the line!
    Nice read, TG.

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    Unexpected Attack! Sabretooth's Avatar
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    Very much appreciated. I like to read about the behind-the-scenes. Thanks TG!

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    Heroic Hyperborean NorthCoast's Avatar
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    Put me in the camp that always thought that panel was showing Skeletor moving toward the portal, not a single-file line of multiple "Skeletors". That was a fairly common technique in comics back then to show motion (see Spider-Man comics for example) and as a kid that's what I though was happening.

  17. #17
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Put me in the camp that always thought that panel was showing Skeletor moving toward the portal, not a single-file line of multiple "Skeletors". That was a fairly common technique in comics back then to show motion (see Spider-Man comics for example) and as a kid that's what I though was happening.
    I thought the same as you.

    Someone else mentioned a minute sellout of Fisto - but he lasted over 20 minutes. Was he not showing up on some people's computers?

  18. #18
    Heroic Warrior snakeeyes0217's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Put me in the camp that always thought that panel was showing Skeletor moving toward the portal, not a single-file line of multiple "Skeletors". That was a fairly common technique in comics back then to show motion (see Spider-Man comics for example) and as a kid that's what I though was happening.
    Never saw it that way as the figures would usually be ghosted (except for the final figure in the movement) when using that technique. Also, the text says he was "thrown into this world," not that he casually walked through a portal. Further, the body types of each figure look different. The one closest to the viewer is more hunched and brutish. To each their own, I guess.

    But this panel also inspired me to imagine that beings from Skeletor's dimension looked like him but that his skull face was unique even among them. After all, they didn't show their faces in the illustration. In fact, I use Keldor in this capacity since I don't buy into the Keldor storyline.

  19. #19
    Heroic Hyperborean NorthCoast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakeeyes0217 View Post
    Further, the body types of each figure look different. The one closest to the viewer is more hunched and brutish. To each their own, I guess.
    Not seeing that really. They look like the exact same character in different walking positions to me. I guess everyone dressed exactly the same in Skeletor's dimension as well? Could have varied them a lot more if this was the intention.

    Not a very clear panel in my opinion. I'm guessing the script text was added after the drawing was completed but maybe someone knows for sure (don't the illustrators often work off an outline, then the dialogue is added later?). Maybe the script writer was confused as well, so he added the bit about "others of my kind".

    Furthermore, the portal must have immediately closed after Skelly went through, or there'd be a whole hoard of him on Eternia.

    Hey, who doesn't like debating 30 year old art work intended for 5 year olds! LOL!
    Last edited by NorthCoast; February 15, 2012 at 06:11pm.

  20. #20
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakeeyes0217 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Put me in the camp that always thought that panel was showing Skeletor moving toward the portal, not a single-file line of multiple "Skeletors". That was a fairly common technique in comics back then to show motion (see Spider-Man comics for example) and as a kid that's what I though was happening.
    Nope. Never saw it that way.

    I always thought the text was remarkably clear on that point.

    'Once I lived in another dimension, populated with others of my kind. But when the Great wars opend a hole, I was thrown into this world. With the complete Power Sword I shall reopen that hole and bring my people here to conquer this dimensional world!'


    Heck... the power sword had nothing to do with his getting here. It was the great wars that sent him...

    Just looking at the picture, I see

    A) Two halves of the sword.....

    B) Completed sword.....

    C) A reopened hole bringing his people....



    Also, while yes... mutliple images has been used in the past to indicate movement... Snakeyes is right... they are usually ghosted showing where the person has been. And.... I'm having a REALLY hard time remembering EVER seeing that effect used for someone 'walking'...

    Leaping... running... bouncing... anythign done by the flash... but Demon Walking?!?

    I was astounded when I first saw that this bit of lore was actually debated...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Nope. Never saw it that way.

    I always thought the text was remarkably clear on that point.

    'Once I lived in another dimension, populated with others of my kind. But when the Great wars opend a hole, I was thrown into this world. With the complete Power Sword I shall reopen that hole and bring my people here to conquer this dimensional world!'


    Heck... the power sword had nothing to do with his getting here. It was the great wars that sent him...

    Just looking at the picture, I see

    A) Two halves of the sword.....

    B) Completed sword.....

    C) A reopened hole bringing his people....



    Also, while yes... mutliple images has been used in the past to indicate movement... Snakeyes is right... they are usually ghosted showing where the person has been. And.... I'm having a REALLY hard time remembering EVER seeing that effect used for someone 'walking'...

    Leaping... running... bouncing... anythign done by the flash... but Demon Walking?!?

    I was astounded when I first saw that this bit of lore was actually debated...
    [You forgot B,2) Leaving Eternia through newly opened hole]

    That's all very plausible, but I never felt Skeletor was wearing a uniform so much as he was wearing a little outfit he threw together, and these guys are all dressed the same. I mean, if you had never read that comic, and you closed your eyes, and then someone read you the text, would you imagine skeleton's people to all be identical, clothing at all? I wouldn't. and, vice versa, if you had only seen the picture and not read the text, would you think that was just Skeletor walking? I'm not sure what I think, but upon closer inspection, I think it could reasonably be argued either way (see post#33). I personally think he's leaving Eternia and going to get his people in the picture. "Personally" is the operative word.
    Last edited by IamBrentN; February 15, 2012 at 11:40pm.
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    Nope. Never saw it that way.

    I always thought the text was remarkably clear on that point.

    'Once I lived in another dimension, populated with others of my kind. But when the Great wars opend a hole, I was thrown into this world. With the complete Power Sword I shall reopen that hole and bring my people here to conquer this dimensional world!'


    Heck... the power sword had nothing to do with his getting here. It was the great wars that sent him...

    Just looking at the picture, I see

    A) Two halves of the sword.....

    B) Completed sword.....

    C) A reopened hole bringing his people....



    Also, while yes... mutliple images has been used in the past to indicate movement... Snakeyes is right... they are usually ghosted showing where the person has been. And.... I'm having a REALLY hard time remembering EVER seeing that effect used for someone 'walking'...

    Leaping... running... bouncing... anythign done by the flash... but Demon Walking?!?

    I was astounded when I first saw that this bit of lore was actually debated...


    "I was thrown into this world."

    He was THROWN into this world, yet that picture shows him/them WALKING into the hole. If he was thinking back, he would be flying through the air right into the hole, instead of entering on his own will. To me, that image is him imagining the day he can bring his people over to conquer.

    But, I don't like it that way. To me, there's only one Skeletor, not many. But that's how I clearly see it in that panel.
    Last edited by BCreviews4628; February 15, 2012 at 11:17pm.

  23. #23
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    I really liked this. After investing >$500K in a yearlong toy subscription, it's fun to see what has gone into the making of the line and its nuances.

    I'm glad ToyGuru has a sense of humor when decrying conspiracy theories against him. I think he's really a hard worker and puts a lot of passion and effort into his job. It sure can't be easy when people are all so negative (though, I'll be the first to attest to the fact, as I have before, that calling customer service at Digital River is almost akin to talking to a Furby, only with more parroting. But, Europeans in Europe want these figures, too, and this was apparently the only option on the table). Clearly this is a weekly blog, not a ruse or decoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Put me in the camp that always thought that panel was showing Skeletor moving toward the portal, not a single-file line of multiple "Skeletors". That was a fairly common technique in comics back then to show motion (see Spider-Man comics for example) and as a kid that's what I though was happening.
    I think you're absolutely correct. If you look at the picture from left to right, Skeletor's face narrates as the two halves of the sword are joined together, then make a whole sword, then a gate is opened. Plus, none of the Skeletors' feet are in the same position, so I don't really feel like it's an army goose-stepping into a portal as much as it's a flip-book of Skeletor leaving Eternia after merging the swords and opening the gate, which is mimicked in the text below.
    Last edited by IamBrentN; February 15, 2012 at 11:17pm.
    --Brent

  24. #24
    Heroic Warrior Darth Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Put me in the camp that always thought that panel was showing Skeletor moving toward the portal, not a single-file line of multiple "Skeletors". That was a fairly common technique in comics back then to show motion (see Spider-Man comics for example) and as a kid that's what I though was happening.
    That is what I always thought too.

    Quote Originally Posted by CptSpandex View Post
    Scott,

    I appreciate your blog posts and you interacting with us on the forums. But, after seeing the NYTF walk-through with you and Pixel Dan (well done, by the way), I think you gotta stop taking everything to heart. I like that you're passionate about the toyline, and that passion has helped to deliver a very fan-friendly product.

    I appreciate what you've done, but being on the defensive isn't necessary. It just looks bad, in my opinion. Criticism like this wouldn't exist if everything was going smoothly.

    -Brent
    That was extremely well said. Perhaps not submitting a response is the best response you could ever make, Scott.
    Last edited by Darth Daddy; February 18, 2012 at 02:45am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Say cheese!!!

  25. #25
    Heroic Warrior Battle Armoured's Avatar
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    I enjoy reading these, keep them coming Scott.

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