MOTUC 2013 Price Increase Discussion

[Riddle of Steel]

How can you call Ram Man that? lol

Some one can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember TG saying not too long ago that the 2013 figure won't be along the lines of a SW as in demand and more long the lines of a Wun-Dar, Bank Robber He-Man etc.....as in more obscure.

1) Some people keep saying these figures will go up to $25 next year... is that really what Scott means when he says "dramatic" increase? I personally think it's more likely they'll be closer to $30!

If it's $30 or close to it, the line will with-out a doubt be in immediate danger. VERY few people are going take on a blind subscription at on the average of a 50% increase per figure.

There simply aren't enough hardcore fans to keep the ball rolling on some thing like that, along with enough *really good* figures left.

The secondary market will implode as re-sellers would have to charge at LEAST $40 per figure in order to make any thing. Just wouldn't work. So there goes that market as well.

$30 would be the beginning of the end fellas. Although with all of the previous issues, I guess you could say that the beginning started along time ago.

[NastyNate]

If they are $30.00 EACH in 2013 then I will no longer be a "complete-ist" thats for sho. I will still cherry pick my favs but I will be very selective. I can see subbers paying $25.00 MAX next year, but thats it. Anything higher than that is just too much of an increase. I just really wish 2013 would go back to a cut back, more streamlined line up. I.E. Less equals More.

[motu77]

I'm going to wait to fully comment until I see what the new price is. It was only a matter of time before it happened. Next year was going to be tight for me anyway so depending on how much the sub will cost and the configuration will decide if I get one or not. But again I'm not gettign up in arms until SDCC.

[bowspearer]

I'm going to wait to fully comment until I see what the new price is. It was only a matter of time before it happened. Next year was going to be tight for me anyway so depending on how much the sub will cost and the configuration will decide if I get one or not. But again I'm not gettign up in arms until SDCC.

The problem here is that you have 2 scenarios - either Scott is deliberately lying to raise our fears and then lower them come SDCC, or the new price structure will be as follows:

Figures - $40
Beasts - $60
Vehicles - $80
Granamyr et al - $160

What that is based on is the fact that Scott has claimed that margins are flat (meaning that there is no room to move in profit margins to offset costs) and costs have raised 100%. Therefore if costs have gone up 100% and cannot be offset through reducing profit margins, then logically the retail costs must increase by 100%.

[Minion]

But you still have the right to be upset about that situation and to pronounce it. If you´re well posed it´s often just luck and isnt it didainfully to condem those who are out of that luck? Just a little more sympathy for your MotU brethren who are not so lucky, would be nice.
I have to stop collecting if it´s getting to expensive, but i will be very,very ******, thats just how it is.

Sympathy for not being able to afford to collect toys?! I guess...
Not sure if you're being serious or not in that reply. I have genuine sympathy for anyone out of work and who may be struggling financially - i've been there - and I take offence to the fact you would suggest otherwise.

I did not condemn anyone in my post, but merely said that collecting this line is a luxury, and real life costs have to come first. Not sure why that's a problem for you?

[king.of.grayskull]

The problem here is that you have 2 scenarios - either Scott is deliberately lying to raise our fears and then lower them come SDCC, or the new price structure will be as follows:

Figures - $40
Beasts - $60
Vehicles - $80
Granamyr et al - $160

What that is based on is the fact that Scott has claimed that margins are flat (meaning that there is no room to move in profit margins to offset costs) and costs have raised 100%. Therefore if costs have gone up 100% and cannot be offset through reducing profit margins, then logically the retail costs must increase by 100%.

I think he talked about the raw materials. They raised 100%. (Only my guess)

Toyguru said that one day the cost of a single figure would raise to 40$ per figure. But he talked from a few years antil then. (Roast Gooble Dinner 84)

[JimPansen]

Sympathy for not being able to afford to collect toys?! I guess...
Not sure if you're being serious or not in that reply. I have genuine sympathy for anyone out of work and who may be struggling financially - i've been there - and I take offence to the fact you would suggest otherwise.

I did not condemn anyone in my post, but merely said that collecting this line is a luxury, and real life costs have to come first. Not sure why that's a problem for you?

I was referring to the post you were quoting and just wanted to make a point. Don´t take it personel, no offence meant

[bowspearer]

I think he talked about the raw materials. They raised 100%. (Only my guess)

Toyguru said that one day the cost of a single figure would raise to 40$ per figure. But he talked from a few years antil then. (Roast Gooble Dinner 84)

Ok, let's suppose it's just raw materials that refers to. That alone is a 50% increase. Add in that wages have gone up at least 30% and allowing for a 50/50 split between the 2, you're staring down the barrel of at least a 65% increase in costs. Following that through, figures would still be at least $33 and Beasts would be at least $49.50.

Either way it's still more than people who are betting it wont be more $30 are counting on.

[jibernish]

Ok, let's suppose it's just raw materials that refers to. That alone is a 50% increase. Add in that wages have gone up at least 30% and allowing for a 50/50 split between the 2, you're staring down the barrel of at least a 65% increase in costs. Following that through, figures would still be at least $33 and Beasts would be at least $49.50.

Either way it's still more than people who are betting it wont be more $30 are counting on.

I appreciate your desire to understand this in quantitative terms. I just can't believe we're looking at $30+. Your math seems fine (although I don't know if we can assume materials are 50% of the cost - there's overhead, labor, the 4h's salary, everyone else at Mattel's salary, the money that DR steals from them, legal, insurance, etc.....). At my work (I'm an accountant), my boss is always saying, "Do the numbers make sense?" If a figure jumps 10% we have to look into it, much less 65%. It just can't be that high. Gas is roughly the same as last year, give or take a quarter. And if raw materials really doubled in a year, we'd be seeing the same kind of price increases you're estimating all over the place - not just in MOTUC. Things are more expensive all around, but not 65%.

$33 figures would probably doom the line.

Where did TG say raw materials went up 100%? I missed that somehow.

[bowspearer]

I appreciate your desire to understand this in quantitative terms. I just can't believe we're looking at $30+. Your math seems fine (although I don't know if we can assume materials are 50% of the cost - there's overhead, labor, the 4h's salary, everyone else at Mattel's salary, the money that DR steals from them, legal, insurance, etc.....). At my work (I'm an accountant), my boss is always saying, "Do the numbers make sense?" If a figure jumps 10% we have to look into it, much less 65%. It just can't be that high. Gas is roughly the same as last year, give or take a quarter. And if raw materials really doubled in a year, we'd be seeing the same kind of price increases you're estimating all over the place - not just in MOTUC. Things are more expensive all around, but not 65%.

$33 figures would probably doom the line.

Where did TG say raw materials went up 100%? I missed that somehow.

Actually what he said was:

Labor and raw material have gone up. Factors we have zero control over.

We are not making any more margin on the figures. Our margins (i.e. profit for non biz majors)are flat. Price increases are 100% because the raw cost to produce the figures has skyrocked since 2008. We could keep prices at 2008 costs, but then we would need to majorly reduce accessories and deco.

Just look at retail lines. 3 3/4 figures at retail are over 10.00 in 2012 and 6" figures are between 16 and 20. We just can't produce these figures for what we could in 2008 when we set prices.

We are choosing to increase prices in 2013 vs cost reduce the figures (like we had to do in 2012 removing deco and accessories). It was a tough call!

He said costs in an overall sense, I was just humouring king.of.grayskull's argument that it was only the materials costs that went up 100%.

[Zodach]

You guys are just picking numbers out of thin air though. In principal I understand what you are trying to say, but believe me these figures will not be more than $30 next year. I would bet money on it.

[bowspearer]

You guys are just picking numbers out of thin air though. In principal I understand what you are trying to say, but believe me these figures will not be more than $30 next year. I would bet money on it.

And exactly what in that statement by the MOTUC brand manager are you basing that on? Seems like the person picking numbers out of thin air here is you.

[Wheelor]

Actually what he said was:


He said costs in an overall sense, I was just humouring king.of.grayskull's argument that it was only the materials costs that went up 100%.

Bowspearer I think you misunderstood where he said price increases are 100%. I took him to mean it is 100% assured that prices are going up not that they will increase by 100%.

[jibernish]

"We are not making any more margin on the figures. Our margins (i.e. profit for non biz majors)are flat. Price increases are 100% because the raw cost to produce the figures has skyrocked since 2008. We could keep prices at 2008 costs, but then we would need to majorly reduce accessories and deco." - Toy Guru

To me this doesn't mean that prices of raw materials have gone up 100%. It means that 100% (or more simply, all) of the price increase is due to the rising costs to produce the figures. It isn't because of increasing profit margin.

No way these are going over $30 next year. I just can't see it.

[Riddle of Steel]

They don't have to be *over* $30 to cause doom and gloom. $30 alone will do the job. *If* people decide to stay so many of them will cherry pick that we could all open up our own orchards.

Again......the subs. are blind, a bunch of the good characters are already gone. Secondary market will tank, people can't afford it.......Who's gonna buy these things?

Please don't say the *hardcore* fans. That # is severely inflated, especially when it comes to buying EACH and EVERY figure and at the prices discussed.

So many people were on the fence *this* year AND after all of the debacles in 2012 they we're likely to jump ship to begin with. Now people are gonna drown on top of it.

We're not just talking a few buck a figure here, it's $8-$10!

Of course this is with the suggested $30 model. It'll be interesting, that's for sure.

[orbles]

And exactly what in that statement by the MOTUC brand manager are you basing that on? Seems like the person picking numbers out of thin air here is you.

He says that 100% of the price increase is due to materials and labor, not that materials and labor are raising prices by 100%. He is simply stating that the entire reason for the increase is because of materials and labor, this is by no indication of how much the prices will go up. In fact he says they would need to continue to cut accessories and paint aps to keep the 2008 prices, so I would infer that the "dramatic" increase should not be that much. So they raise the price $2 to keep the current level of accessories and paint aps we've had in 2012, so another $2 or so should add back what we should have gotten. This is speculation based upon what he is saying, but even I, prior to re-reading these statements, was starting to worry too much. I really dont imagine they will go over $25 per fig. If they only had to increase DOS by $2 this year and DOS is (once again a guess) just a small percentage of the over all figures produced, then why would they have to raise the sub figs (guessing 90% of the total of all figures made) by that much to keep our accessories? If they only increased the 10% (again trying to make an educated guess on what % of the total figures are for DOS) by $2, then logically, they may only need to increase the other 90% by the same amount or a little more to cover the difference. This seems logical to me, but I guess we'll have to wait for SDCC to see.

The more I think about it, this whole "dramatic price increase" is propaganda. Look what it has done! People are speculating $30 per figure and people are all worked up about it and absolutely nothing has been said what it is going to be. If they wanted to, then they could come on the boards and say something about how $30 is more than they are planning or something, but no, they dont say a word. Why? So that when they announce $25 or whatever the amount is, people will think, well that isnt as bad as I thought. I really think this is all a ploy by TG and Mattel to get us worked up and think the worse case scenario, then the real price will be a relief. Just my 2 cents.

[Shecky]

Just my 4 cents.

Corrected, due to inflation.

Regards,
Victor P.

[MoViEfReAk]

I don't know where this "dramatical price increase" discussion is coming from. All I can remember is Toy Guru saying, they raised the price drastic, not dramatical. That's a difference.

I can see prices going up to 2012 day-of-sale prices for subscribers and the day-of-sale price going up to 23$ or 24$ for each figure.

If the figures will cost 25$ in 2013, I'll have to reconsider collecting this line anymore, as I'm an international collector and the figures cost me about 35 Euros NOW (fast shipping method). Paying more than 40 Euros would make it hard for me to decide.

[Darkspecter]

I don't know where this "dramatical price increase" discussion is coming from. All I can remember is Toy Guru saying, they raised the price drastic, not dramatical. That's a difference.

Toyguru: The Horsemen tend to "overdeco" figures. Every figure in 2012 is delivering $22.00 worth of paint apps. In 2013 we are dramatically raising prices so we can afford more paint and accessories. If we wanted to deliver all the figures exactly as the 4HM painted the protos we would need to charge more and we already sold in the sub for 2012, so that is not an option. Legally we can't raise prices on the sub after it is sold in. This is why we will start 2013 at higher prices.

http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve...657#5751053657

MODS: Again, can the thread PLEASE be renamed the following?:

MOTUC 2013 Dramatic Price Increase Discussion

Dramatic was given by Toyguru and it's important for people to know we're talking about a DRAMATIC price increase...probably not $2 like the one we saw this year. Thank you.

[he-man121]

Price increase ofr means end of collecting. I've got three kids and a wife to take care of so I'll have no problem cutting out getting toys each month.

I hear you mate,i have three kids and a wife as well,and i have already made the decision to become a cherry picker and only collect the vintage figures in the line,although it was an easy choice for me as i am not that interested in the NA or POP lines and only a few of the 200x figures grab my attention,this was the only way i was going to be able to keep on collecting the line.As for the price increases that are due,i will need to wait and see how much it is going to cost before i make any commitments.

[Grayskull's Heir]

The problem is that the word "dramatic" could be interpreted in many different ways.
I agree that $30-$40 for a figure is indeed dramatic. But I also think that that if we take into consideration things like inflation and general price increases in all other areas of life, something like 20%-25% would also be pretty dramatic. I can't think of any other area of life where prices have increased by 25% in the last 2-3 years (ok, except maybe for concert tickets). I'm positive that this is what Scott meant when he said "dramatic". So what I'm trying to say is that he's talking about 25$ for subscribers and a little more for none-subscribers.

[Zodach]

And exactly what in that statement by the MOTUC brand manager are you basing that on? Seems like the person picking numbers out of thin air here is you.

I'm basing it on what Grayskull's Heir pointed out. The "dramatic" increase that Scott mentioned probably has more to do with percentages than dollar amount. If they increase the price for subscribers to $25 that's a 25% increase over 2012 prices ($20). If they increase the price to $30 that's a 50% increase. I would consider anything in that range pretty substantial and "dramatic" year over year. I will bet you $50 the single figure prices won't be over $30 next year and I'm very confident in that. Please PM me and we can arrange this bet if you're willing to take it

[bigassbuzz]

So in 14 pages of discussion, we've essentially talked ourselves into being OK with $30 action figures now? Scott's hardest job is being done for him.

I'm reminded of a work of LITERATURE that I hope isn't too political to be spoken of outside the "tar swamp."

Orwell:
chocorat - Chocolate ration. The chocolate ration in 1983 was 30 grams per week. (For comparison, a standard Hershey's Chocolate Bar is 43 grams) In the year 1984, the chocolate ration went up to 25 grams per week. Winston himself is charged with the task of re-writing history to make this little feat possible.

[Robzy]

Maybe Scott used the word "dramatic" to scare everyone in to thinking he means $30! Then, when they raise it to $27-28 we all sigh in relief that we're not getting screwed!

[shadowfall1976]

Maybe Scott used the word "dramatic" to scare everyone in to thinking he means $30! Then, when they raise it to $27-28 we all sigh in relief that we're not getting screwed!

Too much for this line, no way would I pay even that $25 is my max.