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Thread: TG Blog #10 Hordak - The last figure ever

  1. #76
    Heroic Warrior Squishy Duck Man's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks Scott! This one brought me back, and Hordak has always been one of my favorites. When introducing MOTU to my nephew, I pointed to Hordak and told him "and this is the most evil one of them all...". I personally can't recall whether the toon or the toys came first in New Brunswick (eastern Canada where I lived until last year) but to me that's not important. What is important is that we have Hordak and the Evil Horde!
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  2. #77
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squishy Duck Man View Post
    Wow, thanks Scott! This one brought me back, and Hordak has always been one of my favorites. When introducing MOTU to my nephew, I pointed to Hordak and told him "and this is the most evil one of them all...". I personally can't recall whether the toon or the toys came first in New Brunswick (eastern Canada where I lived until last year) but to me that's not important. What is important is that we have Hordak and the Evil Horde!
    yeah thats true. when I was a kid though I was very annoyed with she-ra, then puberty started kicking in and for some reason the show was more appealing
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  3. #78
    In disguise! Barbecue17's Avatar
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    Good read for the most part: I have never had any real problem w/ Hordak's armor design. It seem like it was kind of a lose/lose decision either way it could have went. Regardless, Hordak was a good choice for a "final" figure.

    BTW: Is Mcfarland like Matel?

    Regarding the 200x question, I really think that Toyguru and former President Clinton should get together to discuss the 200x "style" and the definition of the word "is". Both of those conversations seem to run in circles and operate off of shifting logic.

    Personally, as a 200x fan, I've been pretty happy with the level of 200x detail which we have seen in the line this year. Fisto nicely has some nice, optional 200x elements, Stinkor has the optional head, tank, gun, and mouthpiece, and Khan has the lizard (some might argue the hood, also). We are getting a MAA with a 200x accessory (the serpent ring) and w/ 200x body styling.

    Still, I'm not sure why the 200x issue keeps getting brought up by Toyguru in the manner it does. It seems shoehorned into these blog posts in such a way that seems like Mattel thinks if they say it enough we will believe it and accept it. I buy the figures. I like vintage, POP, NA, minicomics, the movie, and 200x. If the attention of this line is supposed to celebrate everything that is MOTU, than it just makes sense to include the best bits and pieces from each genre and reimagining.

    The Alcala Skeletor head certainly doesn't fit in with the whole "one unified look" of a character that Toyguru trumpets, but you know what? It's awesome. It looks cool. Folks want it. Its optional. I'm glad we have it. Does it break what was said about unified looks for a character? Sure. But who cares. While She-ra, Adora, and Catra are straight Filmation/ Style guide, Bow is an amalgam of styles: some style guide/ Filmation, some original toy, some reimagining to fit in with other MOTU figures. Do She-Ra, Adora, and Catra look anything like what they would have looked like had they been made in the vintage MOTU line? Probably not. No problem though, because fans are happy with them. Were Keldor's blades "supposed" to be the two halves of the power sword in a never used plot device? Absolutely. Were they ever used? Nope. Should it matter? They were rather iconic for the 200x line, fans like them, they look cool, isn't that enough? I'm glad we're finally getting these!

    Toyguru, Mattel management, whoever tries to make decisions: Most of us don't want 200x styled figures: we don't want lanky proportions, action features with plastic knobs on the characters backs, 100% unique sculpts, size disparity for every character, or uniquely proportioned hands and feet. Neither do most vintage fans want twisting waists, 6 points of articulation, figures in permanent battle squat poses, or rubber bands holding the legs together. Most NA fans don't want extremely thin figures that are sized differently than everything that has come before. I have a hard time saying what I think most POP fans don't want,but I imagine most of us buying this line don't want figures that are closer to fashion dolls than traditional action figures.

    We just want the best elements from each of those styles done in classics. Let's stop playing semantics with "style", "elements", "details", and such and just acknowledge that for the most part, a figure like Fisto pleases people. It recognizes that 200x contributed some cool things with Fisto that added to Fisto in some way. For the most part, that was the first character growth Fisto ever had outside of his original introduction into the property. For others, the issue isn't that we want a Clawful, Buzz-off, or other character to look like they stepped out of the 200x cartoon, but we saw that their were improvements made to the characters to make them more fearsome and vicious. As kids, we perhaps had an easier time accepting some of the vintage evil warriors as being terrifying fighters, but over time that perception fades a bit. Elements of the 200x design reignited that for us in the same way the bulk of the Classics figures reignites those old memories of MOTU figures being so large and chunky and, to quote Roger Sweet, making Schwarzeneggar look like a wimp!
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    yeah thats true. when I was a kid though I was very annoyed with she-ra, then puberty started kicking in and for some reason the show was more appealing
    I agree with that statement, And it rings true today, but not as much. I always felt She-Ra undermined He-Man in a way that She-Hulk, Super-Girl, Spider-Woman or Batgirl. Never did to their male counterparts. That'S why I felt cheated with the Horde going over to the POP toon. However, I find some tranquility in the sence that however you break it down, the Horde was battling He-Man first for 3-5ths of the SOTS movie, Hordak was based on Eternia, and Skeletor was his student responsible for him being on Etheria, so to me, the Horde are MOTU villains. Also, the thing about 200X style being retired....why is this still a complicated issue? Also, when it comes to head sculpts, TG said that 200X heads were retired. He never said cardback heads (Mer Man), mini-comic heads (Skeletor), Filmation heads (Adora), or UK comic heads (Horde Prime) were retired, so why bring these points up? And why does every act like this was a choice made by Scott and not Mattel. Scott is like out John Cena. He is admired by many, bashed by many, but in the end, he will "Rise Above Hate". And when it comes to getting MOTUC out to the fan base, and his genuine love for the property, he can proudly claim the tagline "Hustle, Loyalty, & Respect". Lol

  5. #80
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    The Power and Honor Foundation has a more info about the origins of Hordak and the Horde. Knowing that these guys have alot of fan contributed info about MOTU, I asked them about this claim of TG's that said that the Horde was created for MOTU. Here is what they said!

    It is true that the Evil Horde toys have always been meant to be included in the MOTU toy line. Nobody ever said the oppostite. But it's also true that the Evil Horde CHARACTERS have always been meant to be part of Princess of Power.

    The reality seems to be that the process was a lot more fluid at that point, and it's impossible to determine who came up with the idea first, but the 2 points made above seem the most logical. For example, it's very possible that both Marketing dept. and Filmation decided to create these characters as POP chracters, but market the toys in the MOTU line.

    The debate about what was released first, if the figures or the Secret of the Sword is silly. Both things were in development for the past year and there was a lot of back and forth between Mattel and Filmation. The Power and The Honor Foundation has a photocopy of a Filmation document with the cast list for the SOTS movie, and any characters that has a figure has "Toy" handwritten in red next to him/her. What that means exactly is unknown. It might have meant that those characters were going to be developed as toys too, or that Mattel had already the designs ready for them, hard to tell.

    What it isn't hard to tell is how the desing process went at Filmation. Filmation developed those characters as well. The Power and The Honor Foundation owns the art Tallstar posted and 10 times that. There is a lot of development ALL DONE AT FILMATION, and Hordak looked nothing like a Tiki mask. He started out as a guy named Reaper with a horse skull for the head and wheels in place of his feet.

    The Foundation owns the Filmation development art for Mantenna, Leech, Grizzlor, Shadow Weaver (and many other POP characters). All this stuff was being done at the same time at Filmation for POP. And you can see the evolution of some of them were very different from the toys. At the same time, Ted Mayer was developing the Horde characters too and it's possible that Filmation was being given his art to work with as well, steering the character design in another direction. Given what the Foundation has seen by Ted about Mantenna, that's most likely what happened.

    The guy who designed Hordak is Ted Mayer. Ted can't recall much about Hordak, but he remembered that unlike the other Horde characters, he wasn't Hordak's creator, but something Marketing asked him to execute. So it's very possible that he was given info and art coming from the Marketing dept. and Filmation. If the Tiki mask was an influence, surely that isn't the main point about Hordak.

    The bat symbol is also an evoltution of another concept that was later applied to existing designs. Suckface and Sensor (Leech and Mantenna) where already in design development when another concept was developed about a bat/goblin creature, a sort of parasite that attached to the characters and controlled them. There is art documenting how that was supposed to be a mini-figure that could attach to the characters' belt with a peg. The concept was clearly abandoned later on, but the bat motif remained.

    Or, there is another possibility: the Bat motif was present in some Filmation development art too, and it's possible that the parasite concept was developed later to play with the symbol and make it more interactive for kids.

    As you can see, there isn't a definite answer. However, it goes back to what was stated by the Foundation at the beginning: the Evil Horde toys have been created for the MOTU toy line. The Evil Horde CHARACTERS have always been meant to be part of Princess of Power.

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  6. #81
    Warrior of Evolution 13977's Avatar
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    Nice blog again
    If this was going to be the last figure then I think they made the right choice in choosing Hordak.
    I still don't like the half armor though, IMO it would have been better to have the full armor and not be able to use the ab crunch feature.
    Last edited by 13977; March 29, 2012 at 11:24am.
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  7. #82
    Heroic Warrior Squishy Duck Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13977 View Post
    Nice blog again
    If this was going to be the last figure I think they made the right choice in choosing Hordak.
    I still don't like the half armor though, IMO it would have been better to lose the ab crunch feature and have the full armor.
    Agreed, especially since with the hard plastic cape he can't really bend back at all, and his forward bend is pretty stiff even as it is with the ab crunch!
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  8. #83
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    The Power and Honor Foundation has a more info about the origins of Hordak and the Horde. Knowing that these guys have alot of fan contributed info about MOTU, I asked them about this claim of TG's that said that the Horde was created for MOTU. Here is what they said!
    clear as mud!
    My confusion is mainly the season 3 of MOTU story Larry D spoke of vs PoP vs the joint seasons I read of here.

    Quote Originally Posted by grenadaspice View Post
    I agree with that statement, And it rings true today, but not as much. I always felt She-Ra undermined He-Man in a way that She-Hulk, Super-Girl, Spider-Woman or Batgirl. Never did to their male counterparts. That'S why I felt cheated with the Horde going over to the POP toon.
    yeah they didn't stop producing those toons to push the female counterpart shows, that stung BAD when I was a kid.
    Last edited by krosfyah; March 29, 2012 at 11:55am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  9. #84
    Heroic Warrior snakeeyes0217's Avatar
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    Thanks again for sharing, Scott.

    Regardless of how you feel about the 200X elements included in MOTUC, he's at least telling you like it is from his perspective as the BM. I know it doesn't work like this, but personally I'd prefer to leave the 200X elements out of MOTUC and save the tooling dollars for Ram-Man and Mechaneck!

  10. #85
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fball13z View Post
    While the news that the 200X style was “retired” did not go over well with all our fans, it seems that most have now gotten aboard this train. We had a few early slips with Marzo’s hair and Whiplash’s second head, but otherwise we have stuck to this direction very well. Sure, it won’t please everyone and as a fan myself I totally get it, but as a marketing manager, I 100% understand management’s desire to retire the old 200X interpretation and start up an all new interpretation/style, if for no other reason than to sell more toys (again, are you really shocked that this is what it is all about?)
    I know a lot of folks had trouble with this part, but, from my viewpoint, I wish we'd get more of our answers like this. This is a pretty honest, straightforward reason for why this decision was made, including the blunt admission at the end that part of it was to hopefully sell more toys. It may be about something that folks don't like, and they may not agree with it, but this is the kind of frank statement that I would much prefer to the transparent spin we so often get with this line.
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  11. #86
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    I Hate the history of "retired 200x style"!!
    Is not the name of the line "motuc CLASSICS"?

    I think it should mean it involve all He-man´s colletcion figures and cartoons!!!
    I used to hate He-man New adventures, the cartoon and the toys, but I think if it´s a new line, with a stile, named "classics", it must get 200X Style MYP, He-man new adventures, He-man Filmation, He-man mini-comics, He-man comics,... all of them are part of the he-man cannon,..., and put the best option of each caracter already done.

    I think if we think this way, and if all off us think the best Buzz Off head of all times is the 200X style, why not use this??? Why they need put original head with strange teeths?

    Im my opinion Alcala´s Skeletor head is the best Skeletor´s head, it´s not part of the "classic" colletion, it´s not part of the filmation cartoon, but it´s fantastic!!

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andredwt View Post
    I Hate the history of "retired 200x style"!!
    Is not the name of the line "motuc CLASSICS"?

    I think it should mean it involve all He-man´s colletcion figures and cartoons!!!
    I used to hate He-man New adventures, the cartoon and the toys, but I think if it´s a new line, with a stile, named "classics", it must get 200X Style MYP, He-man new adventures, He-man Filmation, He-man mini-comics, He-man comics,... all of them are part of the he-man cannon,..., and put the best option of each caracter already done.
    The problem was with the 'name'. Classics has NEVER meant 'all encompassing' Classic cars, classical musics, Classic movies... It's a term to describe 'vintage'.

    In fact I think befroe MOTUC came out... the site was divided between Classic and 200x... since then it's been changed to 'vintage' and 200x...

    Really, for an all encompassing line, it should have been called Ultimate MOTU or something else... Classics does not mean what they WANT it to mean..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andredwt View Post
    I think if we think this way, and if all off us think the best Buzz Off head of all times is the 200X style, why not use this??? Why they need put original head with strange teeths?

    Im my opinion Alcala´s Skeletor head is the best Skeletor´s head, it´s not part of the "classic" colletion, it´s not part of the filmation cartoon, but it´s fantastic!!
    The problem is that's all a matter of opinion.

    I think the 200x buzz off head was too skinny. I hate that head. Granted the one we GOT sucks too... But I would have rather had a vintage head with an updated 'look/expression.' Less of a balloon with a smiley face painted on it, and more of a 'warrior' look.

    As for Alcala.... I NEVER liked it. It reminds me of Buzzoff... it's goofy. Wierd tentacle teeth and what not... doesn't look like a skull. I think the filmation head would be the absolute best... but barring that, I'd stick with the vintage/standard head.
    Last edited by phantom1592; March 29, 2012 at 03:16pm.

  13. #88
    Master of Physics VZX's Avatar
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    I like a lot of the 4H's decisions, but Hordak's half-armor was just the stupidist. Ab-crunch is not that important!!!! No matter how I look at it, it looks terrible. I just wish that Scott had won that battle, but it is what it is. I'm hoping that a buzz-saw version would fix this.

    Hey, if Fisto has full armor, why can't Hordak?
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by VZX View Post
    I like a lot of the 4H's decisions, but Hordak's half-armor was just the stupidist. Ab-crunch is not that important!!!! No matter how I look at it, it looks terrible. I just wish that Scott had won that battle, but it is what it is. I'm hoping that a buzz-saw version would fix this.

    Hey, if Fisto has full armor, why can't Hordak?
    Yep, full armor really looks better, ab crunch-joint isn`t much used by me.


    I also hope, they pull the armor of TC Skelli & Squezze more down. I don`t like the bra look.

  15. #90
    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker79 View Post
    Yep, full armor really looks better, ab crunch-joint isn`t much used by me.


    I also hope, they pull the armor of TC Skelli & Squezze more down. I don`t like the bra look.
    This is my issue with TC Skeletor, it looks like a sports bra, or a 2 pc mankini. For me to really care about TC, because DB Skeletor does nothing for me, I'd prefer the slatted loin cloth and a full wicked looking armor. But to be honest I was never a Skeletor variant lover anyway.
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    The problem was with the 'name'. Classics has NEVER meant 'all encompassing' Classic cars, classical musics, Classic movies... It's a term to describe 'vintage'.

    In fact I think befroe MOTUC came out... the site was divided between Classic and 200x... since then it's been changed to 'vintage' and 200x...

    Really, for an all encompassing line, it should have been called Ultimate MOTU or something else... Classics does not mean what they WANT it to mean...
    I always assumed they went with the Classics name because Mattel was doing the same thing before with DC Universe figures, which later became DC Universe Classics.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenadaspice View Post
    I always assumed they went with the Classics name because Mattel was doing the same thing before with DC Universe figures, which later became DC Universe Classics.
    I think so too. but at least the early DC classics WERE the Classics... Blue and Gray batman for example. it eventually outgrew that concept and started hitting every era... but DCU started as pretty classic.

  18. #93
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I think so too. but at least the early DC classics WERE the Classics... Blue and Gray batman for example. it eventually outgrew that concept and started hitting every era... but DCU started as pretty classic.
    Even that is arguable. From the start, DC Universe Classics had modern characters in the line.

    Modern Red Tornado
    Harley Quinn
    The new Aquaman
    The electric Supermen
    Jason Reuch Firestorm

    And that's Waves 1 and 2.

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  19. #94
    Heroic Warrior Wonder Princess's Avatar
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    This was a fun read for me as Hordak is the figure that got me into collecting MOTU/POP figures again. Buying him led to me digging out all my old toys and now having my Ultimate Eternia set-up. All from one really cool figure. Keep up the great work.
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  20. #95
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    this was great.
    love his name & all the other choices made on the hordak motuc figure.
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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    This is not going to end well...
    For the first time I can truly say.. I love Toyguru

    Quote Originally Posted by mekaneckpain View Post
    So it just goes to show you that what ever is said by the powers that be at Mattel is never carved in marble. Ultimately they'll do what ever they want regardless of what they'll tell us.



    I find it insulting that TG says that a head is not 200X inspired, when it actually is.
    I dont find it insulting. You got to understand when Toyguru says there are no more 200x inspired heads it's for the benefit of the head honchos at Mattel that demanded an end to 200x heads after Whiplash. Even though the reality is we still get 200x inspired heads they are not to be called 200x because the Execs at Mattel will put an end to it. So everybody play along. Fisto did not come with an extra 200x head *wink*.. Stinkor will not come with an extra 200x head *wink*.. There are no 200x inspired heads in the Classics line *wink*
    Last edited by NagAAsi; March 31, 2012 at 03:07am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by NagAAsi View Post
    For the first time I can truly say.. I love Toyguru



    I dont find it insulting. You got to understand when Toyguru says there are no more 200x inspired heads it's for the benefit of the head honchos at Mattel that demanded an end to 200x heads after Whiplash. Even though the reality is we still get 200x inspired heads they are not to be called 200x because the Execs at Mattel will put an end to it. So everybody play along. Fisto did not come with an extra 200x head *wink*.. Stinkor will not come with an extra 200x head *wink*.. There are no 200x inspired heads in the Classics line *wink*
    200X ('Hyper Anime") style is what you're not getting anymore, we can get 200X inspired heads and accessories all day, so long as they are done in the Classics style. Mattel knows 200X is a part of the history of MOTU, Classics is vintage but modern styling....not doing "inspired" things would mean POP is out, because Classics is not a doll line and it doesn't use rooted hair, that is a style....POP in Classics style makes the POP vintage dolls into Action Figures, therefore we have POP in MOTUC. Classics takes everything from MOTU and brings it into one style, including what would be "Hyper Anime" but tones it down, throws it back to the 80's then brings it back to 2012 and you get Fisto, Vintage with a side of 200X.

    Count Marzo and Whiplash were their attempts at getting 200X styling past management, but it didn't work....but 200X inspired will, and is working.
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; March 31, 2012 at 08:27am.
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  23. #98
    Court Magician DetectiveFork's Avatar
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    I just want to say, Scott, I hope you feel up to posting these blogs until you get to the very last figure. I always can't wait until the next one goes up on Wednesdays!

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Even that is arguable. From the start, DC Universe Classics had modern characters in the line.

    Modern Red Tornado
    Harley Quinn
    The new Aquaman
    The electric Supermen
    Jason Reuch Firestorm

    And that's Waves 1 and 2.
    I mean in the sense that the adopted the use of the Classics part of the MOTUC name from the DCU Classics

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetectiveFork View Post
    I just want to say, Scott, I hope you feel up to posting these blogs until you get to the very last figure. I always can't wait until the next one goes up on Wednesdays!
    I don't think you will have to worry about the blogs coming to a sudden end. I get the impression that writing them is a very rewarding experience for the author.

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