What big, unexpected twist could be introduced into Classics canon to shake things up

[mekaneckpain]

I would definitly try and steer clear of the "G word" catagory since this is a website based on a toy line where the main hero is a half naked, muscle bound blonde dude and can be viewed as wel... you know. Stands to reason that fans of this line come in all shapes and sexual preferences. It doesn't take much to offend people on here... trust me, I know.

[Tallstar]

I'm sorry, but the (welcome) inclusion of gay characters should not be considered a shocking game changer. The only reason it shook up this thread was the tacky manner in which it was done. I'd hope that Mattel would have some class about themselves if they ever went this route.

I disagree. The idea of gay characters being included in MOTUC, even sans such names, has always shook things up. This would definitely fall in the unexpected category.

I concede that some folks might take offense to the name Gay-Dar, but whether that is positive or negative, tacky or classy, all depends on the angle in which you're looking at this. In his bio, perhaps Gay-Dar takes on this name because he has the power to locate those who are struggling with some issues/facing discrimination and he serves as a mentor. *shrugs*

Being gay shouldn't be a big deal in the negative sense, but no doubt a gay character would be major in the sense that a ton of gay/straight/bi etc. collectors would see it as a progressive step from Mattel.

This may not be true for everyone, but being gay is a huge/important part of who I am. I suspect it is for many of my .org peers as well.

[Telkan2]

The wicked celestial witch who entombed The Star Sisters is actually the Unnamed One, and she is released as such in the MOTUC line.

I love both the Star Sisters connection, and the notion that the Unnamed One is a woman. (It's somewhat similar to my 'Dark Legacies' story, where the 'Unnamed One' was actually Shokoti--hey, maybe she was responsible for imprisoning the Star Sisters.)

[bcrduke]

The fact is that these characters are avatars for the imagination.

The relationships in the mythos either were defined to establish family structure (Adam/Adora, Randor/Marlena, Randor/Keldor, etc.) or for romantic story-telling (Teela/He-Man, Sea Hawk/Adora, She-Ra/Bow, Castaspella/Adam, Frosta/He-Man/Sweet Bee, Orko/Dree-Elle, etc.).

Unfortunately, gay MOTU fans never had the luxury of seeing nice healthy archetypes of relationships to which they might relate, in the same way their heterosexual friends did.

So having that occur as a fun thing in MOTUC, a line which seems to unofficially function as the mode of correcting or realizing things we've always wanted, would be nice, I guess, but it's not, nor should it be considered all that "earth-shattering."

Here's why:

The fact remains: a character's sexuality should NOT be that big a deal, unless it contributes to the type of huge plot twist this thread originally mentioned. Making a certain sexual identity an issue like this automatically renders it somehow "less than" another sexual identity.

I disagree. The idea of gay characters being included in MOTUC, even sans such names, has always shook things up. This would definitely fall in the unexpected category.

It has only shaken things up because of prejudice. Wonderfully, I don't see any prejudice in this thread so far, and among the MOTU fan community, there isn't much to be found (thank you, Filmation morals).

So do you want that prejudice to remain just so that a gay character can function as a huge plot twist?

I think it's awesome that most people would react like this, "uhm... Ok. That's it?"

Tallstar/Jim, your sexuality IS important to you. We know

But I'm sure bamf1984/Aaron's is too. Just because a few of us don't think making a MOTU character gay, for the sake of them being gay, is all that important, doesn't mean we value our identities any less than you.

[VaultsofGrayskull]

How about a Dallas moment where we wake up and find that the whole NA episode never happened?

[Marvelous0ne]

Honestly is it a big deal if they made a new character and he or she happens to be gay? NO! The character's sexual orientation is just a small factor of who the character is! There is more to a person than their sexual orientation!

[dorrmann]

Very well said, BCRDuke.

Also, according to the plot synopsis that we were given, it looks like we just got our unexpected canon twist with this.

[Uki]

You beat me to it; I was just thinking that the new comic could be that twist!

[midor]

The Mighty Spector has really shaken things up. I think The Mighty Spector has to be the most talked about figure EVER in the history of The Masters line.

Other ideas

Then introduce a new faction. and release them one right after the other. There missing the boat with Fighting Foe Men in that respect.

Introduce a sibling to Adam and Adora

Re-introduce Randor & Keldor's sibling, Prince Phillip.

Since the New Adventure charactures are now off planet, introduce characters from the future.

Older characters. Like the golden age characters from comics.

a new vehicle

some how involve a new planet

one varient for those who don't don't have one.

even more fleshed out backstories of the characters and planets

[dorrmann]

You beat me to it; I was just thinking that the new comic could be that twist!

Great minds think alike.

[bcrduke]

That new comic has me very excited.

Heck, even Huntress only got a 6 issue series. So it's not like MOTU is being short-changed!

I actually like the plot twist idea for it. It's a cool concept.

[Nemisythe]

Queen Marlena is actually Keldor's wife (since he is the first born) BUT WAIT FOR IT GUYS.... During Keldor's 'Fall from Grace' she slowly becomes romantically involved with Captain Randor, culminating with her giving birth two the twins (and Randor being the father). This being one of the many triggers that eventually lead to Keldor's betrayal during the Great Unrest! I know in the bio it says she falls in love with Randor, but it doesn't say instantly; maybe there's a time frame there where she initially becomes involved with Keldor. And although Keldor initially romances Marlena (spoiler: may be a slight twist here too) yet is too obsessed with his lineage and inheriting the throne causes Marlena to sway her affections to a more concerned and understanding Randor??? SCANDAL!!!

[*This all based on idea / novel I've thought about titled: Skeletor: Lord of Destruction (The Origin Story)]

[Tallstar]

It has only shaken things up because of prejudice. Wonderfully, I don't see any prejudice in this thread so far, and among the MOTU fan community, there isn't much to be found (thank you, Filmation morals).

Sure there would be some prejudice, but there would also be rejoicing among some of the fans too. After all, pleasant discussions have come out of the this topic as well.

But I'm sure bamf1984/Aaron's is too. Just because a few of us don't think making a MOTU character gay, for the sake of them being gay, is all that important, doesn't mean we value our identities any less than you.

The thing is, it would always look like Mattel are incuding a gay character "for the sake of it", because that argument can be made for every type of scenario one could come up with. If they make Spinnerella and Netossa partners, as has been suggested multiple times over the years, someone can always come along and act as if they're shoehorning 'the gay angle' into the bios...for the sake of it.

On this particular topic, I'm of the mind that...yes I would like to see a gay character definitely included and overtly, as opposed to vague references that are open to interpretation. The way 'Gay agenda' was used earlier makes it seem like a negative, like there's some bad hidden intentions behind my idea, when in all actuality I'm being completly upfront about what I would like and why. I guess some folks could potentially see it as a negative, but I just don't like to dance around the fact that I do want to see a gay character, that's it partially to see some progress in this area, and that I don't see it as necessary to ease everyone into it.

[bskcase]

Does everything have to be sexualized? Can't we just leave sex out of a toy line?

[RockinHard]

Does everything have to be sexualized? Can't we just leave sex out of a toy line?

As you can see, some are obsessed over it.

[bcrduke]

Sure there would be some prejudice, but there would also be rejoicing among some of the fans too. After all, pleasant discussions have come out of the this topic as well.

No one attacked your desire for a gay character though. That's not the issue here.

The thing is, it would always look like Mattel are incuding a gay character "for the sake of it", because that argument can be made for every type of scenario one could come up with. If they make Spinnerella and Netossa partners, as has been suggested multiple times over the years, someone can always come along and act as if they're shoehorning 'the gay angle' into the bios...for the sake of it.

I totally disagree. For example, let's say Mattel said, "Chief Carnivus's mate is Tiagro, Kittrina's brother." Not only does that work to bring the MYP Cat people and the Filmation Cat people together, but it also enriches the development of Kittrina's story. It's not JUST to make Carnivus gay. It serves a purpose in the plot. If you said, "Netossa and Spinnerella became partners after both their villages were destroyed by the Horde, and they were taken prisoner, and escaped. That helps to create a colorful story about these two women. It raises the stakes for them. It also helps to illustrate how the Horde destroyed countless lives, yet these two rebels remained strong and found love in their darkest hours. Those are just light examples... I'm no writer.

On this particular topic, I'm of the mind that...yes I would like to see a gay character definitely included and overtly, as opposed to vague references that are open to interpretation.

Up until I posted my first reply, I never saw anyone attack you for wanting a gay character. All that was called into question was whether revealing that character is gay was "ground-breaking" or a big enough "twist" to be compared to the Adora/SOTS story, or the NA plot, etc.

The way 'Gay agenda' was used earlier makes it seem like a negative, like there's some bad hidden intentions behind my idea

I don't remember reading anything that bamf1984, or anyone else said that suggested you had bad intentions. I am not sure where you're finding that. I think questioning the agenda of someone making characters gay just for the sake of making them gay is fine. Are they creating diversity? Are they trying to appeal to as many fans as possible? Are they using those characters in some kind of story that requires them to be gay? I just think that if you Mattel were to say that Beast Man, for example, is gay or straight, then they better have a good reason for making that distinction, either way. It doesn't need to be said just for the sake of making those characters gay or not... by leaving it vague, you let the fan decide. Now, it would be nice to have some progressive diversity, don't get me wrong... but accusing someone of not valuing his identity because he doesn't need a MOTU character defined as gay, or otherwise, is not a valuable action.

I just don't like to dance around the fact that I do want to see a gay character, that's it partially to see some progress in this area, and that I don't see it as necessary to ease everyone into it.

I agree that you shouldn't dance around it... but I also strongly suggest that you respect the opinions of your friends, some of whom also happen to be gay, and not attack them just because they disagree with you. That's different than passing on the dance in this case.

As you can see, some are obsessed over it.

sir, you called Catra and Teela "sex-ay" in your video...

I'm sorry, but the (welcome) inclusion of gay characters should not be considered a shocking game changer. The only reason it shook up this thread was the tacky manner in which it was done. I'd hope that Mattel would have some class about themselves if they ever went this route.

I'd love for Mattel to allude to the Spinerella/Netossa relationship in their bios. It's not shocking. It has no affect on the story of Eternia and Etheria. It's just something nice.

Game changers are the death, betrayal, or return of a major character. They are the revelation that something important that we thought we knew was not the truth.

Gay-Dar. Yes, that would be his power. I get it. Ha. I don't want it included as a MOTU character, and the fact that a gay fan presented the idea shocks me. I'd assume the gay fans would want to handle the topic with less camp and a little more finesse and maturity.

I doubt any African American fans are calling for Knee-Grow, Heroic master of leg extensions. See? It's a play on words. It's not offensive at all! Except...it is.

But I guess that's the difference between the Civil Rights movement and the "Gay Agenda."

TOTALLY agree with all of this.

Mattel making Characters like "Gay-Dar" and "Gay-Sha" would be akin to someone doing "black-face." It's not "fierce." It's sad.

Did I laugh at the names? Yes. The same way I laugh at Family Guy or South Park

[EldestSon]

Does everything have to be sexualized? Can't we just leave sex out of a toy line?

does that mean get rid of the romance too?

i don't think anyone is suggesting that we add sex. but if there are 2 (or more) gay characters, no reason they can't have a romance...same as he-man/adam & teela or she-ra/adora & bow or sorceress & MAA or battle cat & panthor.

TOTALLY agree with all of this.

Mattel making Characters like "Gay-Dar" and "Gay-Sha" would be akin to someone doing "black-face." It's not "fierce." It's sad.

absolutely!

[bcrduke]

does that mean get rid of the romance too?

i don't think anyone is suggesting that we add sex. but if there are 2 (or more) gay characters, no reason they can't have a romance...same as he-man/adam & teela or she-ra/adora & bow or sorceress & MAA or battle cat & panthor.

That'a a very important point... and an important distinction. A lot of people see hetero relationships as romantic and/or sexual, but homosexual ones as just sexual. That's pretty much totally off the mark. As bamf1980 said, Spinnerella and Netossa being in a relationship would just be a nice thing. Why not? It would be a sweet homage to their being paired in the Filmation cartoon. That's romantic... and romance, in all its forms, IS a component of fantasy fiction.


NOW... back to the topic at hand...

I kind of like the idea of "King He-Man" being injured in the face and becoming a new skeletor-like villain.

[mjw41]

How about a Dallas moment where we wake up and find that the whole NA episode never happened?

[EldestSon]

NOW... back to the topic at hand...

I kind of like the idea of "King He-Man" being injured in the face and becoming a new skeletor-like villain.

not sure i like that, but what if (and i'm stealing half of this from above) "king" he-man has lost both battle cat (dead) and an arm? those two things and his age make him decide it's time to pass the torch...er...power sword and we get a new wielder of the sword of he.

[shadowfall1976]

Teela's real Dad is really an Italian plumber from the Mushroom Kingdom who used accidentally an unmarked out of order pipe warp one day and got sent on a multidimensional trip to Eternia, where he was found by a woman walking alone, he and Teela'na fell in love, and made big whoopee with a lot of "Momma Mia" later he found his way back home, and 9 months later....OOOPS!

Then a young man by the name of Duncan came to be the guardian of the young baby, and you know the rest...

I kind of like the idea of "King He-Man" being injured in the face and becoming a new skeletor-like villain.

Who's next in line then....He-Man-At-Arms, He-Man-E-Faces? or would it be Shee-La

[EldestSon]

Teela's real Dad is really an Italian plumber from the Mushroom Kingdom who used accidentally an unmarked out of order pipe warp one day and got sent on a multidimensional trip to Eternia, where he was found by a woman walking alone, he and Teela'na fell in love, and made big whoopee with a lot of "Momma Mia" later he found his way back home, and 9 months later....OOOPS!

Then a young man by the name of Duncan came to be the guardian of the young baby, and you know the rest...

i smell new factions!

[mjw41]

Does everything have to be sexualized? Can't we just leave sex out of a toy line?

I agree with this statement 100%

I have no problem with a persons sexual preference, I'm straight but I also have gay friends. I just feel sexuality it has NO PLACE in a toy line.

tallstar has a right to his opinion, but at the end of the day it is his opinion and honestly if anyone wants to make a MOTU character gay in their own cannon thats cool , but no one shouldn't expect Mattel to imply a MOTU character is gay in their bio since we already have people leaving the line over the fact MOTUC has females. I want this line to continue for several more years. I grew up with these toys and this is nostalga for me as well as many others so lets keep the sex and sexual preference out of the toy line. As for POP characters I say bring them on, the female characters are just as important to MOTU canon as the male characters

[DO4M]

Spector is actually the THIRD Child of Power!!

[Tallstar]

No one attacked your desire for a gay character though. That's not the issue here.

I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion based on what I've posted? I never said anyone was attacking my desire for a gay character. I'm merely responding with an alternative view. My response to bamf1980 was with regard to the shock-factor of such a revelation; more specifically to counter by pointing out that this is a topic that evokes a lot of discussion, with or without overt names being given to said characters, as well as to dispute the tacky label of the Gay-Dar name by illustrating a postive flip side scenario. That's when you jumped into the discussion.

I totally disagree. For example, let's say Mattel said, "Chief Carnivus's mate is Tiagro, Kittrina's brother." Not only does that work to bring the MYP Cat people and the Filmation Cat people together, but it also enriches the development of Kittrina's story. It's not JUST to make Carnivus gay. It serves a purpose in the plot. If you said, "Netossa and Spinnerella became partners after both their villages were destroyed by the Horde, and they were taken prisoner, and escaped. That helps to create a colorful story about these two women. It raises the stakes for them. It also helps to illustrate how the Horde destroyed countless lives, yet these two rebels remained strong and found love in their darkest hours. Those are just light examples... I'm no writer.

While this would be a wonderful way to introduce gay characters, I'm not quite sure why the idea of said characters would have to be limited to some deep explanation that serves a huge purpose in the actual story. Mentioning these relationships or interests in a matter-of-fact way (like they do with other characters) or playing up the romance, without it having to go anywhere, would still be an unexpected suprise to a lot of folks.

Up until I posted my first reply, I never saw anyone attack you for wanting a gay character. All that was called into question was whether revealing that character is gay was "ground-breaking" or a big enough "twist" to be compared to the Adora/SOTS story, or the NA plot, etc.

*See first paragraph.

The negative intentions are definitely being implied in this thread though, with the whole commentary about 'sexualizing' characters. *looking at RockinHard response to that and some previous commentary* Like I didn't see those coming. I'm not quite sure what this issue is with this person, but so very often he seems desperate to agree with a point that counters mine while simultaneously throwing shade at me, even though he never really addresses any of my points directly and sometimes comes off contradictory.