So we're all more and more annoyed... is it time for us to do something about it?

[fball13z]

Speaking of us all going thru other means to get the figures, does anyone find it weird that bbts has not put up pre-orders for Horde Prime, Frosta, Snake-MAA, Sir-Laser-Lot, and Spikor yet?

huh that is funny, wonder whats up with that, BBTS is normally johnny on the spot with preorders

[ksensor]

Companies like Hasbro will (maybe even have) cornered the market with both adult and child collectors- Transformers, G.I. Joe, Marvel, Star Wars - I've never had QC or Shipping issues with these products...EVER besides some minor wrong paint apps on some.

Hasbro has been pulling accessories from their GI Joes to save on costs - and not even doing it the nice way that Mattel handled it with Draego-Man where we knew ahead of time. Hasbro sent the first wave of cases out with figures as they'd been shown ahead of time, then all subsequent cases had the versions with fewer accessories. Awesome.

And now that we've seen Hasbro's upcoming GI Joe movie figures, we know that they've decided to give us vehicle drivers with t-crotches, instead of ball joints - effectively setting the record for a GI Joe with the least amount of articulation ever. In 2012. So, please, let's not hold Hasbro up as a do-no-wrong example of the right way to run a toy company.

This is one way to go about it, but it would require the vast bulk of Matty customers to get on board and go about things in a very specifically timed manner.

What could be a way to go about it is if everyone leaves buying their subs til the last possible day while sending Matty a jointly composed fan letter which every subscriber sends Mattel (not DR) a copy of, stating all the issues, stating that as a warning, people will not be buying their subs until the very last day and that if production issues are not resolved in the next 12 months, we will not be renewing our subscriptions for 2014.

If that plays out properly, then what Mattel will see when they inspect DR's sales figures is that the vast bulk of their customers were a part of the boycott and that they have 12 months to fix a viable line or they will have killed it off.

A blind strike can be mistaken for a loss of sales (and therefore line viability). This on the other hand, sends a very clear message to Mattel and leaves them in no doubt as to what is happening.

Your heart's in the right place - you're trying to think of ways to help, and I appreciate that.

People keep posting about the fans taking action in some unified way - and it's just not going to happen. Here's why:

1) You'd need to actually get the bulk of Eternia sub holders on board.
We're not talking about just the people on the Org, we'd be talking about getting the bulk of everyone who has subs. What percentage of the subs are bought be online retailers? Or are bought by people who never spend time on the Org forums? All those "votes" are off the board right from the start.

Now, just within the Org subholders, what percentage of people are going to sign on? You'll lose a large number of people who just aren't interested doing something like this. Some think a strike will just hurt sales, which will cause Mattel to cancel the line. So those people are out. You'll lose another large number to people who think the likelihood of it working isn't worth the trouble. So what percentage of the overall subs will that actually leave you with? Is it even a noticeable percentage of the overall subs?

2) Who would decide what goes into the letter?
I won't put my name on a letter to Mattel that complains about the customer service at DR. I'm just not comfortable doing that. And each Org subholder who's willing to sign on will have their own similar ideas. Some only care about QC. Some focus on mattycollector and/or DR. Or shipping delays. Or whatever. Are you going to put it all in the letter? If you do, you'll have people decide not to sign because they aren't interested in some of the issues you're putting forward. People who, for example, don't care about swapped biceps, but care deeply about when their credit card is billed. So how do you decide what concerns deserve to be included? Every issue you leave out will cost you signatures. But if you put every little things on the list, it loses its message and focus.

3) You've got X number of Orgers writing a letter. Now prove they're sub holders.
Just because I post on the internet that I bought 37 subs last year doesn't make it true (I bought 34). If you trust the people who say they bought subs, I guarantee that you'll have at least a few people lie about the number they bought or that they bought them at all. And if Mattel looks over the letter and starts seeing names that aren't on last year's sales list, all of your credibility is shot. So who's going to verify how many subs everybody bought? And how would you do that?

4) At the end of the day, it's just an online petition. So what's the follow-through?
The internet is full of outraged letters threatening action. It's kinda been done to death.

Say you get your letter squared away, and it's endorsed by some number of sub holders. You give Mattel your demands and wait until the last day to order your 2013 sub. Ok, fast forward to July of 2013, when we're ready to sign up for the 2014 sub. Who gets to decide if Mattel's made enough progress to avoid the strike you threatened?

You see? It goes right back to being an individual purchasing decision. We've had Orgers admit that they tried to organize MOTUC strikes about the RSOD/WSOD, just to make their own purchases go more smoothly. No reason to think people won't back out of the strike once the 2014 figures are announced. Or worse, people follow through and don't subscribe, and Mattel interprets the decline to indicate a lack of interest and cancels the line. It's a business, after all.

Plus, consider this: Say July of 2013 rolls around, it's time to sign up for 2014. What if Mattel fixed everything you asked for? They held up their end of the deal... so are you obligated to get the 2014 sub? Is it likely people will follow through and get the sub, even if the figures they wanted were in the 2013 sub? Probably not, right? So what motivation does Mattel have to fulfill the demands of a letter or strike?


Again, I appreciate that people are frustrated for a wide, wide variety of reasons. And I'm glad to see a few people trying to come up with constructive solutions. I just want to make sure we think everything through.

[bowspearer]

What bowspearer says would be true before the Internet. Nowadays, people can see how customers feel by reading online. If they CARE if we are unhappy, they can find out by looking at our forums, their forums, the BBB site, the German MOTU site, or any other toy forum. My feeling is that they don't care and will NOT change anything. You basically give them another year to mistreat you and then they can cancel further sculpts from the horsemen or call your bluff.

Except that you've ignored 2 points. No company with even half an ounce of business sense will needlessly kill off a viable revenue stream for them.

Secondly, your attitude is a prime example of what the real problem is here- that people are either too resigned to things or too timid regarding Mattel pulling the plug on the line, to do anything about it.

The reason Mattel wont do anything is because they know that as things stand, people will purchase their products no matter how unhappy they are. As a result, Mattel have no incentive whatsoever to fix the problems, as their revenue stream is equally viable regardless of whether or not they actually fix the problems people have.

If companies know that a viable revenue stream is in danger of being lost through inaction on problems with it, and that taking action will give that line several years' more longevity; then sound business sense would say that it is in their interest to correct problems in that situation.

However it would require people either letting go of their resignation and/or timidity as a united front for this to work.

1) You'd need to actually get the bulk of Eternia sub holders on board.
We're not talking about just the people on the Org, we'd be talking about getting the bulk of everyone who has subs. What percentage of the subs are bought be online retailers? Or are bought by people who never spend time on the Org forums? All those "votes" are off the board right from the start.

To give a perfect example of why this doesn't hold true, just look at scandal regarding Hasbro and Urban Taggers? How many people in general had heard of the blog before that? Not many. Yet how many people are aware of it now or are even planning on boycotting Hasbro in September, several, including some online sellers.

Now, just within the Org subholders, what percentage of people are going to sign on? You'll lose a large number of people who just aren't interested doing something like this. Some think a strike will just hurt sales, which will cause Mattel to cancel the line. So those people are out. You'll lose another large number to people who think the likelihood of it working isn't worth the trouble. So what percentage of the overall subs will that actually leave you with? Is it even a noticeable percentage of the overall subs?

Not necessarily, because this isn't a complete strike per se, but a damn good fright for Mattel. Subs are still purchased, but done at the very last minute (the last day they're available on sale). Mattel don't see a stream of lost revenue blindly like a complete strike would do, however a letter campaign in that many numbers would prompt Mattel to look at sales figures (not to mention that Toyguru would have been aware of no subs being purchased through the bulk of the sale period and thus Mattel would be aware of it) for the last day the subs were on sale.

2) Who would decide what goes into the letter?
I won't put my name on a letter to Mattel that complains about the customer service at DR. I'm just not comfortable doing that. And each Org subholder who's willing to sign on will have their own similar ideas. Some only care about QC. Some focus on mattycollector and/or DR. Or shipping delays. Or whatever. Are you going to put it all in the letter? If you do, you'll have people decide not to sign because they aren't interested in some of the issues you're putting forward. People who, for example, don't care about swapped biceps, but care deeply about when their credit card is billed. So how do you decide what concerns deserve to be included? Every issue you leave out will cost you signatures. But if you put every little things on the list, it loses its message and focus.

That would be where fans would come together, list everything and then someone designated and voted on who writes the draft, then the final draft is approved by the majority of people here. The thing is that you bring up several valid points. Things like wrongly assembled figures, shipping delays and customer service (DR in general and all the issues surrounding them) are all the key issues. You would exclude things like "I want x figure done" as that is counterproductive", but those 3 are all valid major concerns that cover most peoples' issues.

Secondly, yes this would require people signing the letter, as this is not merely some internet petition, but a letter campaign. However this would not be going to Digital River, but Mattel Customer Service themselves as if things went to plan, DR would not have contracts renewed and a new service provider would be found.

3) You've got X number of Orgers writing a letter. Now prove they're sub holders.
Just because I post on the internet that I bought 37 subs last year doesn't make it true (I bought 34). If you trust the people who say they bought subs, I guarantee that you'll have at least a few people lie about the number they bought or that they bought them at all. And if Mattel looks over the letter and starts seeing names that aren't on last year's sales list, all of your credibility is shot. So who's going to verify how many subs everybody bought? And how would you do that?

Because they wouldn't be verifying it based on last year's sales lists, but the sales figures on Sub uptakes for the coming year. Furthermore Mattel technically is legally able to access the details of sub-holders as the information would be handled in house so it could easily be verified. That said, people would need to be honest about whether they previously cherry picked or subscribed, and how many subscriptions they bought.

4) At the end of the day, it's just an online petition. So what's the follow-through?
The internet is full of outraged letters threatening action. It's kinda been done to death.

No it's not an online petition at all. It's a letter campaign requiring people to send in a form letter, either by mail or email (preferably by mail for impact), complaining about the situation and demanding solutions and voting with their wallets if they're not discovered and implemented. An online petition can be ignored. Hundreds of angry letters flooding in can't be ignored so easily.

If you think it wont work, need I remind you what happened to Hasbro in the wake of killing off Optimus Prime back in 1986.

Say you get your letter squared away, and it's endorsed by some number of sub holders. You give Mattel your demands and wait until the last day to order your 2013 sub. Ok, fast forward to July of 2013, when we're ready to sign up for the 2014 sub. Who gets to decide if Mattel's made enough progress to avoid the strike you threatened?

The counter argument there is that what is turning people off this line is QC issues, DR and shipping delays, while the Horsemen themselves and their designs keep people coming back for more. Ask yourself if people would have stayed until now if the figures the Horsemen were making weren't as amazing as they are? Some would sure, but not the vast bulk of people.

You see? It goes right back to being an individual purchasing decision. We've had Orgers admit that they tried to organize MOTUC strikes about the RSOD/WSOD, just to make their own purchases go more smoothly. No reason to think people won't back out of the strike once the 2014 figures are announced. Or worse, people follow through and don't subscribe, and Mattel interprets the decline to indicate a lack of interest and cancels the line. It's a business, after all.

Except that if this campaign were successful enough where people waited til the last day to purchase their subs, it would be very foolish business sense on Mattel's part to treat it as a bluff to call.

Plus, consider this: Say July of 2013 rolls around, it's time to sign up for 2014. What if Mattel fixed everything you asked for? They held up their end of the deal... so are you obligated to get the 2014 sub? Is it likely people will follow through and get the sub, even if the figures they wanted were in the 2013 sub? Probably not, right? So what motivation does Mattel have to fulfill the demands of a letter or strike?

Because we're nowhere near that point yet. There are still at least 2-3 more years of reduxes of POP, MOTU and Na figures to go through, and that's ignoring the Filmation characters which have never gotten figures. If it were maybe 2017 I could consider this to be valid, but we're simply nowhere near that point yet.

[redsquadron]

I've cherry-picked from the start, and always buy from UK Ebay sellers - The only figures I bought direct from MC were Flipshot (sic) and Swiftwind, and I got stung with customs charges on the latter. Buying this way, I haven't missed a single figure, thus rendering the sub concept useless to me. Let someone else take the risk and pay the charges I say...

Cynical? Maybe, but with good reason, apparently! I have nothing to boycott/drop...

[Blaster]

huh that is funny, wonder whats up with that, BBTS is normally johnny on the spot with preorders

Now it gets even weirder, they have Meka-Neck up for pre-order but no Spikor, Horde Prime, and Frosta?? I was thinking that they were holding off on those three to see if they can mark them up past 34.99 after they sell out on Matty, but Meka Neck will by far be more wanted than those three and they kept him @ 34.99? I wonder what gives?

[bcrduke]

Now it gets even weirder, they have Meka-Neck up for pre-order but no Spikor, Horde Prime, and Frosta?? I was thinking that they were holding off on those three to see if they can mark them up past 34.99 after they sell out on Matty, but Meka Neck will by far be more wanted than those three and they kept him @ 34.99? I wonder what gives?

I think Frosta and Spikor will both be as popular or more so than Mekaneck. Frosta fans will likely buy multiples.

[Blaster]

I think Frosta and Spikor will both be as popular or more so than Mekaneck. Frosta fans will likely buy multiples.

Well hello there stranger. I might have to agree because I want to, however you know how some folks round these parts are about the vintage figures. T

[Tribal Spaceman]

Well hello there stranger. I might have to agree because I want to, however you know how some folks round these parts are about the vintage figures. T

There hasn't been a Frosta action figure made since the 80s and I don't think they made Spikor for the 200X line. Demand for these two is going to be massive.

[shadowfall1976]

huh that is funny, wonder whats up with that, BBTS is normally johnny on the spot with preorders

I just got the Mekaneck PO done, I always PO from BBTS, just in case I can't get to the computer first thing day of....but he's there....not the others yet.... BGEL didn't show up until like 2 weeks before the sale, and TP He-Man was almost the same.

[Mern-Ra]

Regarding BBTS, are they maybe waiting for better pictures of the other figures? Haven't the others just been shown at conventions whereas Mekaneck has official photos? I could be wrong so if I am then someone please correct me.