Stinkor's Forearms Discussion Thread

[Jermbo]

He's the final cut so that's what we're getting.

[Boy Wonder]

Oh God, I'm into bodybuilding but that dude's arms look like they're made from a collection of vines. But yeah, gets the point across of how a well built forearm is supposed to look

[Xetheus]

Oh God, I'm into bodybuilding but that dude's arms look like they're made from a collection of vines. But yeah, gets the point across of how a well built forearm is supposed to look

Looks disgusting, doesn't it??? But I needed that shot to get our point across for the disbelievers!!!

[Grayskull's Heir]

I really don't care if this was an error or done on purpose. In either case, it's just stupid as it destroys the anatomic correctly sculpted musculatur.
I'm outraged at this. Yet another problem with a toy line that could have been so great...

[Sallah]

I'm quite certain if it was not on purpose they would have noticed when they first got it that it was wrong.

Yeah, just like they noticed Roboto's shoulders being reversed...

Oh wait. They didn't.

Well, it is just like when they noticed a few months later (after creating "the shoulder committee") that King Hssss's shoulders were reversed...

Oh wait. They missed that too.

So maybe it is just like when they noticed Aquaman's reversed shoulders on the DCUC Vs. MOTUC pack...

They missed that too? Oh....

...Well I'm sure it is just like when they noticed that Swift Wind's legs were switched...

Crap. They missed that.

Fact is, we have proof across the board (in both the MOTUC AND the DCUC line) that they miss this stuff all the time. We also have proof that Scott will usually go out of his way to point out "improvements" and changes made to figures before final product is out there (like when he went on and on about the TOD Sorceress boots in the Toy Fair walkthrough, or how he pointed out repeatedly that Draego Man's shoulders were corrected)... yet when asked about Stinkor, he never mentioned the change to make him "pop", despite the fact that the sample at Toy Fair had the switched out forearms. In fact, he never addressed this until fans caught the mistake on the samples shown by reviewers.

100%- I don't believe for a second this was intentional.

Sallah

[demiscy]

So basically they tried to re-use BA Skeletor's arms but failed miserably

[nicholighkun]

I'm trying to check Stinkor's toyfare pics to see what arm his shield was hung on, but I can't find it with the search function. I've searched for toyfare 2012, and toyfare 2012 rate the reveals, but found nothing. Can anyone help me out? Just a pic of him would work, since I only want to know which arm his sheild was hung on for sure, not speculation. Thanks!

[nuno]

The shield is on Stinkor's right arm, thus hidding the misplaced left forearm.

I got a reply from Scott on Matty's forums:

ANSWER:

Hi!

There's no way you can justify the way Stinkor's arms have been assembled. They are wrong and there's just no excuse! The way the 4HM sculp forearms on male figures for the MOTUC line just makes it impossible to swap between left and right and still look ok.

Just try swaping your Skeletor's forearms and see for yourself. Happy?

Considering all this I have an idea:

Why don't you make a second run of Stinkor's with corrected foreamrs? You already have the mold for it, it wouldn't cost more than doing a reissue. I know reissues are not in the table right now, but this would be a way to please a large majority of fans that are concerned with the way this was handled. It would be an exception to correct the exception that caused for Stinkor's forearms to be swapped.

People are quitting the line over these kind of issues and I just don't think that that's "pretty cool".

REPLY:

Alas we have found that outside of the main characters (He-Man and Skeletor) the market does not really support a second run. This is why you will not see any second runs past Man-E-Faces (at this time). (we do have a small amount of customer service stock of some recent figures (Fisto and Sorceress being two that even our CS stock reserves are gone!), but no figures past Q4 of 2011 will be going into a full on actual second run. This includes all 2012 figures and those going forward.

So this is it for Stinkor. (at least at this time). After he goes on sale May 15th, do not look for a second run. We have found the market will not support it (and yes we know "more than an average number of customers may want a new Stinkor due to our choice to change up the wrists a bit (much like more then an average number of customers may want a corrected Roboto or Hssss due to the shoulder issue) , but from sales data we know even with a substantial bump from your "typical" or "average" second run interest, the overall numbers still do not add up. It just takes a little too long to run through any second run stock (beyond He-Man), so there won't be any more second runs (at this time) with or without small changes.

---

I already asked for a Battleground Stinkor version, let's see what they have to say.

One more screw up and I'm out of MOTUC for good.

[nicholighkun]

Nuno: Try suggesting the parts pack idea (Stinkor's correctly painted forearms and Snout Spouts head with plastic trunk) and also the Battle ground Stinkor idea, giving him Trap-Jaw's knees and lower legs, with Hordaks feet, plus maybe an odiphus packed in to really make him special.

[nuno]

Will edit my question on the ask matty's forums.

[Xetheus]

So basically they tried to re-use BA Skeletor's arms but failed miserably

Did you say that because of my picture that I've uploaded? I just used BS Skeli as an example for the brachioradialis muscle and the extensors and flexor muscles. The Stinkor forearm is a completely new sculpt!

[nuno]

I had no time to update my question since the answer already came by TG:

"Stinkor is not a mistake. Many times designers make choices and not every choice is one every fans wants (ie using a hole ad plug to hold She-Ra's mask).

There are no plans for a reissue or a new version of Stinkor anytime soon at this time. The version released in May is the definitive version for MOTUC as Mattel design team created."

She-Ra's mask has nothing to do with Stinkor's problem. Putting it on the same discussion is only a way to throw sand to the fan's eyes. Again this guy doesn't address the questions, this is lame.

To Toyguru, since I can't reply to you on Matty's forums and/or send you a PM, I'll say you this:

Stinkor's problem is not in the same department as She-Ra's mask, Sorceress's wings or any other problem related with compromising a toy's design with it's egeneering so that it works properly. If that was to be the case then I would be complaining about every figure in MOTUC having pins on their articulation. I'll say it again and for the last time, Stinkor's problems are the same as first run He-man, Roboto and King Hsss changed shoulders, since they affected the whole run of those figures. It has to do with sculpting. If you still can't see this then I'll just hold my words before I say something else...

People can say that this is a minor issue, people can say what they want, but people in good faith just can't say that this is not a mistake.

As I said before I don't know Scott, and I even liked the guy and his sense of humor from the few times I heard him speak (videos, etc...). But a person that tries to make a fool out of us doesn't deserve any of my respect.

[Wakko]

I look forward to the day, several months from now, when this discussion finally dies down, and Scott posts his figure blog about the making of Stinkor, complete with details (revisionist history?) about intentionally swapping the arms, making sure to throw in the words cool and pops. There's going to be a shortage of pitchforks and torches on that day...

[nicholighkun]

Plain and simple, Mattel's response to this, (and more specifically their response to fan outrage, which is with good cause) is sad. Simply heartbreaking. Say goodbye folks, because of Mattel's response to this, and their lack of response to DR problems despite the "best efforts" of the "shoulder commity" and despite the changes that were promised long ago to DR's methods, we can be perfectly sure that this will likely be the last year for this action figure line, thanks to low sub sells due to Mattel's outrageous and insulting handeling of major issues and QC problems. No one wants to blindly hand over upwards of $500 dollars to a company that doesn't care what the fans have to say about their product. At best, 2013 is the last year, unless they actually take responsibility for their mistakes, and actually crack a freaking whip on their factories and on DR. Hey Scott and company, please don't continue to tout your love for this franchise until you show that you care for the fans concerns WHO PAY FOR THIS LINE because we keep this train running also, it's not just you guys. Your ideas and products may be the vessel, but our hard earned money is the fuel that keeps the engine running. Don't say you love this line and continue to ignore a raging forest fire that you know full well will slowly burn up fan interest in the line. A fire which will eventually be the end of MOTUC. can you not smell the sub sales burning up? Their on fire Scott. You put a whole lot of love and care into this line to just let it burn like this. Fight for it.

[Stefan81]

I like this community, and that we do not always accept those silly mistakes.
ok many folks are ok with stinkor the way he is now. but TG should know, that he can`t make a fool out of us! ;-)

[nuno]

I don't think that this line will die just like this. I was just hearing what Scott was saying in episode 84 and the subs are way over the minimum, so it would take a great blow to just put the line in jeopardy.

With that said, we'll continue to have a line that just will not make justice to MOTU. Never!

But since a lot of fans are ok with having defective figures I guess that's ok..

People use to say that ignorance is a bliss, but I guess I'm not dumb enough.

[nicholighkun]

I don't think that this line will die just like this. I was just hearing what Scott was saying in episode 84 and the subs are way over the minimum, so it would take a great blow to just put the line in jeopardy.

With that said, we'll continue to have a line that just will not make justice to MOTU. Never!

But since a lot of fans are ok with having defective figures I guess that's ok..

People use to say that ignorance is a bliss, but I guess I'm not dumb enough.

That's a little too apathetic for me. This alone will almost definately not be the single death blow to the line, but it's certainly a major one. There's more at stake here than a simple asthetic, it's the past trouble with swapped parts that makes this an obvious bad idea. It's the lies that seem to be told, with increasing evidence that this is a PR coverup, i.e. the fact that Scott nor anyone else mentioned this at Toyfare being the major eyebrow raiser. This is just one of many parasites slowly eating away at fan interest, which will eventually lead to sub sales low enough to spell the doom of this line. I don't think that this line will last past 2013 at best, without major changes. I'm not one for regime change or anything, I think Scott has put a lot of love into this line, I just feel that having to cover up mistakes has got to change. Why does Mattel have to pay the factory if they mess up a figure in a major way? Why doesn't Mattel relieve the person or team who does the preperations of the figure parts to be manufactured, since they have messed up the same way several times? I'm not saying fire them, I'm saying they aren't cut out for manufacturing prep. Mattel: Stop lying and start holding people accountable for shoddy work.

[cayman shen]

I don't see why you don't all cancel your credit cards, jump ship on the sub, and become cherry pickers. Unethical to cancel your card to get out of the sub? Sure. But it's a justified response to the bait-and-switch of buying a sub and being given faulty merchandise.

[Scare Glow]

Stinkor is not a mistake. Many times designers make choices and not every choice is one every fans wants (ie using a hole ad plug to hold She-Ra's mask).

I'm sorry, but there just seems to be a disconnect between Scott's position and the issue being brought forward by the community.

The fact of the matter is that this isn't a valid comparison. The peg in She-Ra's head was necessary from a functionality standpoint and did not hinder the overall aesthetic when the figure was displayed as intended (with tiara in place). It was designed to be this way.

Stinkor, well after the prototyping faze was completed, was arbitrarily, and very primitively altered in a way which was in direct disharmony with his design and the intended outcome of the change. How could anyone who makes their living as a designer conclude that switching a limb left from right would actually work aesthetically, anatomically and functionally?

Comparing this error to any specific design compromises, such as the aforementioned She-Ra, is a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue.

This also sets a rather Grimm precedent for the future of the line. Designers at the final stage of development clearly are performing duties beyond their scope if anatomy and correct assembly can be so casually thrown aside. They can, and may very well, do this again at their discretion.

Toyguru may try and defend this, finding poor arguments to rationalize this error, but in the end it's still wrong, and the customers are the ones paying for it.

And of course, this is all in consideration of the claim that this was an intentional decision and not yet another factory error poorly swept under the rug.

This line is not about fun anymore . . . Its a battle between fans and Mattel.

[Smashtoys]

Okay.

I've tried to let the whole Stinkor Forearms issue simmer in the back-burner of my brain for a few days, but it still doesn't make sense.

Why would they INTENTIONALLY swap the arms?

Matty sez:"...Much like BG Evil Lyn's arm pieces which were intentionally reversed, Stinkor used a lot of shared parts so the designers wanted to find a way to make him pop on shelf more..."

Okay. Just like the majority of characters in MOTUC, Stinkor has a lot of shared parts. So lets start listing down the NEW parts.

1) The 200x-ish head
2) The Meckaneck Armor
3) The FOREARMS

Yup. Mattel spent tooling dollars to create brand new Forearms for Stinkor. It's similar to Skeletor's, but it has furr. When the Horsemen sculpted the arms the "Right" way, Mattel approved it.

they make a prototype of it, and showcases it in public.

Somewhere between prototyping and actual production, Mattel Design decides the figure needs to "Pop" more, due to the number of shared parts (Though parts sharing is prevalent in the line, somehow the parts sharing was an issue for Stinkor). So they decide to "swap" the forearms.

Now tell me, does it make sense to swap the forearms around because of too much parts sharing? Aren't the forearms one of the actual parts that WASN'T SHARED? They spent money to have the forearms sculpted like how the Horsemen did it, then they'll make it look different by purposely mis assembling them, so that they will "Pop" some more? If they were spending sculpting and tooling dollars for the forearms, why not just make an all original forearm design on him during the sculpting phase?


weird huh?

[Mern-Ra]

I'm not bothered by the change.

[Xetheus]

I'm not bothered by the change.

you're out!

[Aussie Stinkor]

Stinkor is my fav motu fig of all time... I cannot believe the negativity surrounding such a minor and insignificant configuration of what has gone unnoticed until now.

I often avoid the .org for the abundance of negativity over what is an awesome line that brings back nostalgia and a new look that mist if us here love.

Stinkor is one awesome MOTUC figure. Please don't Kill the spirit of getting such a great figure iver something so small and trivial.

Enjoy it!!! Just like we all did ad a kid

[scott metzger]

"Stinkor is not a mistake. Many times designers make choices and not every choice is one every fans wants (ie using a hole ad plug to hold She-Ra's mask)."
She-Ra's mask has nothing to do with Stinkor's problem. Putting it on the same discussion is only a way to throw sand to the fan's eyes. Again this guy doesn't address the questions, this is lame.

This does point to the problem with Mattel's story; the peg hole in She-Ra's head was, indeed, the kind of engineering change that one would expect from the design team, as were the drums on the Sorceress' wings. Those were technical changes done with production and function in mind, not appearance or aesthetic appeal. I can't think of a single case Mattel has mentioned before this where the design team supposedly came in and changed something having to do with the way the Horsemen sculpted the figure simply to change the look. This is a kind of change that we, to my knowledge, haven't seen these folks make before (BG Lynn's gauntlets were, I believe, switched from the start by the Horsemen, though someone correct me if my recall is faulty. And that was a case where a lot of fans had commented on the original orientation on Teela and regular Lynn looking wrong, so it wasn't an abritrary change, regardless).

[Marvelous0ne]

I want to know why that Scott and the supposed production team felt the need to alter The Four Horsemen's original design? To me what they did was a slap to the face to them! And with Scott saying it was by design. People will believe that the Four Horsemen did this on purpose! And the sad thing is I don't think they're able to even comment on it!