Toyguru thinks 200X fans have now gotten aboard the Classics train--Wrong!!!

[Novelty]

I was playing around with Kevin Kosse's Clawful head on the Classics body the other day and it seemed wrong somehow. Then I realised that I missed the huge crab shell from MYP on his back. Mattel should really consider making 2 versions of every character like Fisto, whiplash, Beastman, Stinkor, etc. etc., with alternate heads and alternate accessories so that we can customise the figures to make the version of the character that we'd like.

[dr thunder]

What was the point of this post? I don't think that style of argument was the point of MegaGearMax's thread, and I don't think this kind of comment is anything but an attempt at pot stirring.

That's funny. I thought it was pretty much spot on.

[Larry Waters]

Big Country:

I'm with you on Clawful. But here's the thing - wanting a 'not crappy' Clawful head isn't the same as wanting a 200x one. I would've just been happy with a slightly less goofy vintage-style head, myself. And I suspect a lot of people that didn't like the Clawful head feel the same way. I don't even understand the complaint about Grizzlor, so that's perhaps a matter of taste more than 'more or less 200x influence.'

And I'll say that a proper 200x version of Buzz-Off's head would look horrible on the huge MOTUC buck. Just my opinion, though. And again, wanting a head that doesn't look goofy is not immediately the same thing as wanting a 200x head. Do you want a 200x head, or just NOT the head we got? It's not the same thing.

So it sounds a lot like 'I just want EVERY figure to have a 200x-inspired head, whether it really makes sense/is necessary or not. By that logic, I want EVERY figure to have a mini-comics head and mini-comics accessories, and Filmation heads and Filmation accessories. Where do we draw the line? Why are 200x fans MORE entitled to every figure getting as much 200x stuff as they can cram into a package?

So again, what do 200x fans actually want? How is 200x not getting enough representation? Or does it truly just come down to 200x fans want EVERYTHING to be 200x and refuse to settle for the combined style that defines MOTUC?

No, I don't want every 200x head represented.

What is want, particularly in the examples that I cited, are 200x heads that have been run through the "Classic-izer". And I don't want it for every figure. I'll settle for just correcting the goofy-looking heads on the characters in my post.

Releases like Clawful, especially, get me. We got a useless shield AND a goofy head. Why not a less goofy head and keep the shield that never existed before?

The reason we get up in arms is that the "head issue" has no rhyme or reason. Why Whiplash, Fisto, Moss Man and NOT Clawful, Buzz-Off or Grizzlor?

[davidlogan]

I love Plundor and 200X heads.

Clawful should have had one included. He needed one a whole lot more than Flipshot or Megator.

If 200X is such a dirty word, then name the heads something else, like with Stinkor's second head - Which is 99% 200X - but isn't called that.

Maybe a 200X inspired or modern head could be included as a second head with a Filmation variant Clawful? I'd be jumping for joy over that deal!

[EldestSon]

No, I don't want every 200x head represented.

What is want, particularly in the examples that I cited, are 200x heads that have been run through the "Classic-izer". And I don't want it for every figure. I'll settle for just correcting the goofy-looking heads on the characters in my post.

Releases like Clawful, especially, get me. We got a useless shield AND a goofy head. Why not a less goofy head and keep the shield that never existed before?

The reason we get up in arms is that the "head issue" has no rhyme or reason. Why Whiplash, Fisto, Moss Man and NOT Clawful, Buzz-Off or Grizzlor?

based on everything i've read and applying logic (i know), it sounds like matty gets X number of slots (new weapons, heads, new tooling, new sculpting, etc, etc) per year...all year. they have to use those sparingly to create all of the figures.

after all the planning, they end up with some spares every year. they use those for extra heads or weapons or whatever. that's why only some figs get extra heads and not all (that might benefit from them).

at least, that's my guess...based on applying logic to mattycollector.

[KnightDamien]

No, I don't want every 200x head represented.

What is want, particularly in the examples that I cited, are 200x heads that have been run through the "Classic-izer". And I don't want it for every figure. I'll settle for just correcting the goofy-looking heads on the characters in my post.

Releases like Clawful, especially, get me. We got a useless shield AND a goofy head. Why not a less goofy head and keep the shield that never existed before?

The reason we get up in arms is that the "head issue" has no rhyme or reason. Why Whiplash, Fisto, Moss Man and NOT Clawful, Buzz-Off or Grizzlor?

But again, the core of your complaint has nothing to do with 200x. A complaint that X head is too goofy has jack-all to do with 200x's influence or lackthereof. To put a finer point on it, answer me this: If Clawful got an awesome, intimidating-looking head that looked nothing like the 200x design, would you still demand a 200x head?

[cbomb23]

Well, if they make it, enjoy your Walking artichoke figure!

How would they even make this figure? A whole new buck, I doubt it, put a cloak over a female body and add a giant head the body can't hold up? 200X version for FTW.

I'm the first one to point out his many, many, MANY blunders...but in this case it feels like taking one sentence (that is true, if you actually read it), and blowing it up way, way, WAY out of proportion. Looking for a fight, so to speak.

It's true - most people have come to the understanding that most figures would be a combination of styles. As evidenced by the reactions to a few recent figures, there is a small segment of people who will not accept that, who must have what they want (fully 200x-figures in Classics scale, but not style - a huge distinction).

He's right. They are on the train. Unless you haven't bought any figures, then you aren't (in which case, I don't know why they would be on this forum).

Blowing things out of proportion, that never happens here? I am very much happy with the way the line started out and what they did with Man-At-Arms, Webstor, Mer-Man, Whiplash, & Moss Man, new exciting elements influenced from multiple sources and adding/improving on the vintage design. Then in the middle we got Roboto, Buzz-Off, Clawful, Sy-Klone, Snout Spout which many were exact clones of the vintage figure or didn't offer any modern elements. Now we are getting figures similar to the beginning of the line Sorceress, Fisto, Kobra Khan, Stinkor which all have new elements added and many 200X elements making just better versions. I don't care if they don't want to call the heads "200X" heads but as long as they continue to add them I'm cool.

200x was a waste. It was such a bad story line and the charecters was awful. I didnt think orko could look much worse. And the sorceress lives in castle g, not an egyptian pyramid. Totally dumb.

Wow, really? I find the storyline in 200X so much more cohesive and builds on previous episodes, Guess you must have missed the fact that the Sorceress lived in Grayskull? Do I think everything in 200X is great or perfect? Well no some characterizations are horrid, and I could still go for much more menacing Evil Warriors. But even though I grew up on Filmation MOTU, the 200X show is superior in every way, I can't even watch the Filmation show now it's so awful, loved it when I was 10 can't stand it now.

TG out of touch? You don't say!!!

I think its time the guy resigned... he has created so many problems its the only self-respecting thing he could do at this point. For the records I REALLY hope that all his subtle hints about him not running this line until the end means that Mattel will be taking him off of it SOONER rather than later.

I really don't get your disdain for Scott? Without him (and the 4 Horsemen) this line would be in much worse shape or may not even be here for that matter? Having someone who has knowledge of the property in charge is a huge plus. And he seems to take the blame for everthing that happens.

I think that if we can get 200X elements in the line as we did with Fisto and Khan, that'd be swell. I personally don't want 200X specific heads as we got with Whiplash. In my opinion, that head seems out of place on him...now, if a more 200X-ish body came (say with Ceratus), I'd love that head to represent a new character (maybe an ally of fellow underground warrior Wun-Dar?). I just want the line to have a unified look. (I don't care about Filmation heads at all.) The Alcala Skeletor head works for me, as it represents him in his earliest days, when he was quite insane and attempted to free "his people."

I do hope to get more 200X inspired items though: plenty of characters (Dekker, Stingrad, Sir-Tek, Odiphus, Ambrosia-affected villains, etc.) and weapons (techno axe and shield, Power Sword case, etc.)...

Funny how so many don't like the way the Whiplash head turned out, I can't get myself to use that goofy vintage goblin head on the reptilian body or on any other body for that matter? I love the 200X Whiplash head, looks pretty great on the Demo Man body too. For the most part I'm pretty happy with what this line has brought us with a few exceptions where I think modern elements would have helped.

But again, the core of your complaint has nothing to do with 200x. A complaint that X head is too goofy has jack-all to do with 200x's influence or lackthereof. To put a finer point on it, answer me this: If Clawful got an awesome, intimidating-looking head that looked nothing like the 200x design, would you still demand a 200x head?

Be ok with me, I'm very happy to have obtained the Kevin Kosse Clawful head as it looks so much more intimidating (Thanks Shenlon for the head! and Tin for making such an awesome piece!). I look at the recent GI Joe Pursuit of Cobra Snake-Eyes it is just about a perfect figure that updates his old look and adds a ton of accessories, these are the type of updates I'd like to see.

[Dr Kain]

I enjoy all the 200X influences and I'm not upset at all by the direction of the style. It seems to me that 200X fans get quite a lot within this toy line.

Well when you have stupid things like eyebrows on lizards and crustaceans, and what is supposed to be a bee head look like the mask of a costume an 8 year old drew, there is a reason to be upset. If anything, they could have made the helmet for Buzz-Off look like an insect head so it would be useful instead of making it look even worse.

[Dragonblaster]

While I agree that more 200X references (like Fisto) should be in the line, I don't agree about Clawful's head SCULPT. It's just the paint that makes him vintage:


I know I've said this quite a few times now. But the Clawful head bashing is a bit over the top in my opinion.
Get some red paint and cover those black brows. It's THAT easy...

[TUC138]

I want a Clawful head that does NOT look like the love child of Animal and Sam the Eagle, a Grizzlor face that looks fearsome rather than laughable and a Buzz-Off head that doesn't look like a goofy bug-eyed vampire with the giggles.

Honestly, don't give us Moss Man, Whiplash and Fisto (and other) 200x heads then tell me it can't be done with Clawful and Buzz-off. Keep that God-awful, cheap looking shield and give me a less goofy head for Clawful. And why make the 200x smock for Grizzlor, yet not give us a face that doesn't look like some bucktoothed buffoon?

The only reason we're getting Keldor's swords is because of our unending complaining.

As a Filmation Variants fan, I've had few arguments with you in the past. But as a 200X fan, I AGREE with you 100% on this debacle ! Word By Word...... SPOT ON !! I always hated that awful shield. Why would a big clawed monster need that anyway ??? Had figures like Roboto, Grizzlor, Clawful & Buzz-Off got their 200X inspired heads, this whole debacle would have not arose.

But what makes me wonder is that, why some board members has the habit of trash talking & disrespecting a figure/accessory when fellow board members clearly LOVES it ??? I don’t understand their “Love To Hate” attitude on others wish. If they hate that particular figure/accessory so much, they should pass it ease & say "Hey..... I am glad that other peoples are getting XXXXXX, but I am not going buying that garbage FOREVER" !!! Definitely NOT "I don’t want to see Mattel making Filmation/200X/POP/Mini-Comic XXXXXXX in MOTUC FOREVER" !!!!

[MegaGearMax]

I have a confession to make.

I've been a MOTU fan my whole life. I've been on the MOTUC bandwagon since SDCC King Grayskull. I have tried to remain current on the issues, including reading as much as I have time for of the unending 200x complaining (and by 'complaining' - I mean both sides, not just MGM -- although I mostly mean MGM ).

And yet I can honestly say, with some embarrassment, that I have no idea what 200x fans want. Years of complaining and I still do not understand. Aside from getting every character in the mythos released in the same scale and artistic interpretation as the 200x series, I just don't see what more 200x fans actually want. What LEGITIMATE complaint is there?

Not enough 200x heads? Give me a break. We get them semi-regularly, where it makes sense and is needed. When we don't, too bad. We DON'T get a lot of things. It's not just 200x-specific when we look at accessories not getting made that SHOULD be made. So that complaint is trivial nonsense because it isn't "a 200x thing."

Not enough 200x STYLE? Well, duh. We don't get thinner figures like NA either. This is MOTUC - it has its own style which isn't quite this and isn't quite that. So a style complaint is also irrelevant.

Not enough 200x accessories? We've gotten quite a few, actually. We even have the 200x power sword. I still don't have my mini-comics power sword, I'll add. So nope, it can't be a lack of accessories since it seems like every other figure released has a 200x accessory of some kind.

So what is it? What on sweet green Eternia do 200x fans WANT that they're not getting?

Well, first of all, not all 200X fans are alike. Just as I shouldn't generalize that everyone here wants Castle Grayskull to be a playset, do not mistake that all 200X fans want the same things. Hell, you have vintage fans who don't like Queen Marlena. We are fans just like you; despite what of our rogue's gallery thinks, we aren't some underground militant movement with doctrines and gang colors. DO4M, Big Country, Dr. Kain and I are all different people.

As to what we want, in this thread I'm talking about the missing extra heads that were effected by the August 2010 ban such as Grizzlor, Buzz-Off, Clawful, Snout Spout and Sy-Klone. Possibly more missing 200X heads are coming like Tung Lashor or Rattlor. MOTUC figures going up in price and having less options due to some internal executive bias is a subject that most fans can agree on, whether you are a 200X fan or not.

I think that mostly 200X fans feel like they have to fight for what they want against a really frustrating, inconsistent "trash talking" of the entire 200X line from Mattel upper management.

I think we do have to fight for quite a few 200X things in this line--show support so that Mattel feels comfortable about making that particular figure. With the vintage characters, you know Ram Man or Blast Attack are coming. That's a given. All fans have to do is be patient. On the other hand, 200X Queen Marlena needs a support thread. I think we aren't alone though; Filmation, Jetlag and Pre-Filmation fans have to fight for characters as well--I remember when Shadow Weaver was more wanted than friggin' Ram Man, the holy grail of this line! POP fans would have to have great support for vintage POP looks too.

YOur not alone.

Even the 200x fans don't always agree on what they want. Some want hints and nods to the 'modern updates', and 4 years later some still want all unique bodies with varying sizes...

Honestly, of all the 'factions of MOTU besides original Vintage fans, 200x has the LEAST amount to complain about. We have a TON of 200x influence in this line... Could there be more? Sure. Would it make it better? Only if it was removable/switchable. POP,NA, Filmation... they have a lot more to complain about right now
I STILL WANT MY FILMATION SWORD!!!

I respectfully have to agree a bit with all of this. I mean, I argue that as much of each source (vintage, POP, NA, 200X/MYP, mini-comics) should be exploited and included...

But I have, a few times, posted a list of all the 200X/MYP stuff that has been included so far, and I never feel as though those fans are being short-changed. Sure, Buzz-Off and Clawful could have had second heads, but more figures than not have had their MYP-inspired accessories and/or second heads.

I mean, over 3 years into the line, and we have 3 NA figures (one of which hasn't been released yet). THOSE NA Fans are the ones who need to feel slighted.

I won't argue against MYP/200X fans' requests, but the idea that they are being alienated or ignored is hard for me to accept... I mean, look at Stinkor... Fisto... KK... Snake MAA... The Griffin... Count Marzo... The Faceless One... King Grayskull... Whiplash... Zodak... and there is likely a little more to come

Then you have all the accessories, and the bios are hugely influenced by 200X/MYP.

I think that fans have to keep demanding those things, but you HAVE Scott on your side... he's totally an MYP/200X MOTU fan... it's not like you're POP fans, and you have to tell him that Bubble Power She-Ra actually came out AFTER Starburst She-Ra...

Scott might be a 200X/MYP fan, but he still has to follow and repeat stupid company doctrines that he might not believe in personally. Yes, 200X had lots of representation in this line, but it also had some huge setbacks and controversies to even get some of those figures on the table. Yes we get Keldor, BUT--! Yes, we get Battleground Evil-Lyn, BUT--!, Yes, we get MAA in his 200X costume, BUT--! Yes, Mattel wants to make a 200X He-Man, BUT--!

And guys...I'm talking about 200X's missing heads here, while we get all sorts of OTHER stylistically different heads from Alfredo Alcala, the UK comics, the styleguide/Filmation and the original cardback--not 200X's overall presence in the line. The area where we ARE getting slighted, while others are unaffected. That is what we are focusing on here in this thread.

[cayman shen]

No, as a huge 200X fan, I'm not on board with TG on this one. While I get (and approve) of MOTUC being heavily vintage inspired, Mossman and Fisto's 200X heads make those figures 100% better, and it's a shame Grizzlor, Buzz Off, and Clawful got stiffed. At least Grizz got the loincloth and weapons, so kudos there. Also kudos on Khan's lizard, the doomseeker, etc. I LOVE those nods to 200X. But BGEL, while great looking, definitely got the shaft. And if we never see an ambrosia Webstor it'll be a crying shame. Stupid Snout Spout should have been a better blend of 200X and vintage. You know, so he sucked less.

WE WANT 200X HEADS TG!

[Larry Waters]

based on everything i've read and applying logic (i know), it sounds like matty gets X number of slots (new weapons, heads, new tooling, new sculpting, etc, etc) per year...all year. they have to use those sparingly to create all of the figures.

after all the planning, they end up with some spares every year. they use those for extra heads or weapons or whatever. that's why only some figs get extra heads and not all (that might benefit from them).

at least, that's my guess...based on applying logic to mattycollector.

Without getting into EVERY example, here's what I'll say:

Fisto . Clawful
New Harness . New Harness
New right arm and hand . New right arm and claw
New head . New head
Sword . Mace
Giant sword . Shield

re-used: . re-used:
Feet . Feet
Legs . Legs
Loincloth . Loincloth
Arms . Arms
Legs . Legs
Torso . Torso

Extra head . NO extra head


Same number of new parts, same number of used parts...again, no rhyme or reason.


THAT is why some of us get a bit irritated.

But again, the core of your complaint has nothing to do with 200x. A complaint that X head is too goofy has jack-all to do with 200x's influence or lackthereof. To put a finer point on it, answer me this: If Clawful got an awesome, intimidating-looking head that looked nothing like the 200x design, would you still demand a 200x head?

Since everything that we've seen is either a refresh or amalgamation of previous sculpts, your example would never happen. Moot point.

You're getting away from the point of the discussion. They've done "200x" heads, then they didn't, then they did. No rhyme or reason.

[JVS3]

I think the ideal way to resolve a lot of this is just show Scott what we as 200x fans want. He's said numerous times that pictures really help. And if he had something he could take to his bosses and say "See? This is all they are saying", it may make things doable.

Are there any good custom photo manipulators out there who would be willing to give me a hand on this? If so, please sound off!

[Prahvus]

I think Scott fails to recognize (or to admit) that, other than an awesome look, VARIETY and QUALITY are what fans really want in MOTUC !

A figure should some in pristine condition (correctly assembled, with no quality flaw) with the possibility for us fans to display it with its vintage look AND with its 200x-inspired look - following our preferences and only for the figures that had 2 totally different looks in those different MOTU incarnations.

Personally, I'm VERY happy with the looks of figures such as Fisto and Kobra Khan (Stinkor may have been there too, but the bad forearms case refrained me to do so).

I'm happy to hear that classicized 200x elements are not totally banned anymore. But I don't want to get only 200x versions either ! Just give us VARIETY, and the POSSIBILITY to display our figures in vintage and 200x looks, just like it happened with Whiplash, Fisto or Kobra Khan, and we'll be allright !

[Larry Waters]

What REALLY boggles the mind is that by not doing extra heads whenever feasible, Mattel is leaving money on the table.

If there are two heads, I'm almost always (Filmation, POP, NA excepted) going to buy 2 figures, to display in each incarnation.

[fball13z]

What REALLY boggles the mind is that by not doing extra heads whenever feasible, Mattel is leaving money on the table.

If there are two heads, I'm almost always (Filmation, POP, NA excepted) going to buy 2 figures, to display in each incarnation.

BC hit the big nail on the head.

I love all areas of MOTU and when they put a 200X head and items in a figure, I buy 2 and I know there has to be a lot of people that do the same.

Fisto and Stinkor are what I would like to see for all 200X figures.

[DO4M]

As you can see here are two crude drawings of "200X" He-Man Who I'm using as an example.
The First one is how I think a "Classicized" 200X He-Man should look. Standard buck, same MOTU Classics He-Man head, but with a new hairpiece that has the 200X Hairstyle CLASSICIZED. Also the 200X Harness has been classicized: Same shape, but not "Hyperdetailed" with the additional buckles and whatnot.

Now for the BELT. While my drawing does not show the sporran,or fanny-pack; it SHOULD be made like Fisto's Modern belt. thus giving you options. Want a uniform loincloth look, then don't put it on him. Want a more 200X Accurate look for He-Man...

Now, I'm NOT Saying that EVERY Figure SHOULD get their 200X Version... When it can be done like Fisto, then do it that way. When the clothes are extremely different then 2 releases should be done.

Also this Logic could be applied to the "Filmation Variants" but in reverse to fight the 80s animation Hypodetail...

[Dr Kain]

I know I've said this quite a few times now. But the Clawful head bashing is a bit over the top in my opinion.
Get some red paint and cover those black brows. It's THAT easy...

First off, you would need to find the exact color to match his head. Secondly, you are acting like everyone can paint in the lines. Third, you have to have the perfect paint brush that probably costs $40 just to paint those tiny eyebrows and not get the paint in his eyes.

[Toyguru]

So you definitely know that there is STILL a demand for 200X heads, regardless of what Mattel Management says? That because we aren't bombing Ask Matty with all sorts of 200X head questions every minute of every hour of everyday, doesn't mean we've stopped wanting them or hoping for that ban to get "un-retired" somehow.

Of course! We can't always produce everything that is demanded. But of course I read online post and do know what fans are asking for. No one is
Saying the demand doesn't exist.

[jerec350]

What REALLY boggles the mind is that by not doing extra heads whenever feasible, Mattel is leaving money on the table.

If there are two heads, I'm almost always (Filmation, POP, NA excepted) going to buy 2 figures, to display in each incarnation.

My sentiment exactly. There have only been a couple of figures I didn't buy 2 of that had extra heads (Moss Man, Flipshot, and probably Stinkor).

[austin81]

200X Still Rules!!! Give us 200X figures!!!

First of all i want an He-Man and a Skeletor 200X !!!

i want skelly with human feets..... classic is horrible!!!

[Eternian Poet]

I know I've said this quite a few times now. But the Clawful head bashing is a bit over the top in my opinion. Get some red paint and cover those black brows. It's THAT easy...

Dewd, it's not just the black-eyebrows. It's the huge eyes & the whole skull structure. Look at the size of the mouth compared to the jaw & the cheekbones. It doesn't look like something that could exist - it looks like a cartoon. Or a muppet. Anatomically, that head is just off.

[MegaGearMax]

I think the ideal way to resolve a lot of this is just show Scott what we as 200x fans want. He's said numerous times that pictures really help. And if he had something he could take to his bosses and say "See? This is all they are saying", it may make things doable.

Are there any good custom photo manipulators out there who would be willing to give me a hand on this? If so, please sound off!

Or artists...maybe in the same vein as the create a character contest? Use MOTUC parts and some new tooling, but in the Classics style to show what we want? Great idea, Val! I'm tired of 200X fans getting villainized for having different tastes when other fans can't come to an agreement on if they want a Castle Grayskull diorama or playset.

Of course! We can't always produce everything that is demanded. But of course I read online post and do know what fans are asking for. No one is Saying the demand doesn't exist.

Good.

Since Toyguru just said that he knows the fire still burns for 200X heads, that issue is over. Now some of us have a new purpose. Send me your 200X head or 200X variant drawings, photoshops, customs or ideas over PM and I'll organize them into an upcoming thread so everyone will get an idea of what we are looking for in Classics. Keep in mind that we might have 10 renditions of Sy-Klone that go from very minimal changes to super anime-detailed, depending on the contributors involved. The fans can discuss what could realistically work, what doesn't work, how good the rendition is to retaining the 200X look but still ftting in with Classics and get a general consensus of which rendition that we'd all like to see.

[Dragonblaster]

First off, you would need to find the exact color to match his head. Secondly, you are acting like everyone can paint in the lines. Third, you have to have the perfect paint brush that probably costs $40 just to paint those tiny eyebrows and not get the paint in his eyes.

1. There IS an exact color: Bloody red (Game Colors) or Blood Red (Citadel Colors) are perfect.
No mixing of colors needed.

2. Trust me, if you're able to hold a brush, painting the eyebrows is not hard at all. Especially since it's just one color. And the brows aren't THAT tiny.

3. A suitable brush is about 5 € here. That's 6,5 $. But I wouldn't be surprised if they were actually cheaper in the US.