Toyguru thinks 200X fans have now gotten aboard the Classics train--Wrong!!!

[Angry-Calligar]

funny when people complain about muppet heads on MOTUC. they are the heads that look like the vintage the most.

[Dr Kain]

And lastly, most 200X fans aren't these "newer fans". I was collecting back in 1982, before there was a Filmation cartoon--when Teela was blonde and He-Man was a barbarian from the jungle. A lot of 200X fans aren't "kids" and collected the original line, but liked the 4H's new taken on the old characters.

I agree. I was born in 82. My first He-Man figure was Fisto as I was born when He-Man obviously came out. I grew up with my parents constantly renting the He-Man tapes for me from the video stores as I watched She-Ra on tv. I immediately fell in love with the 2002 series for the same reasons I love the new Thundercats series. I don't have everything about the classics. I love Battle Armor He-Man. I love MAA (even though I'm going to make the first one young MAA and the Snake version body be his older self). I love Kobra Khan, Fisto, Sy-Klone, Marzo, etc. I think MOTUC is by far the best toy line out there currently no matter how many issues it has. However, that does not mean I am going to be pleased by I have characters that look like idiots or halloween costumes. One of the things I loved about the 2002 series were that the villians were threatening, they were evil, and they could kill you. Some characters, like Clawful and Whiplash, were still brainless, but they were not to be laughed off. Their toys do not do that. Their heads make them laughable. If I saw a real Skeletor with that Alcala head, I would probably run from him. If I met Clawful, I would start kicking the crap out of him and pulling his eyebrows.

Just because I want 2002 designs, just because I think the 2002 cartoon series kicked the ass of every other He-Man cartoon and comic out there does not mean I am a new fan that knows nothing about the original series. It's just that as I grew older, I wanted more mature looking characters. As I grew older, I realized some things I only enjoy because of nostalgia (like the Filmation series, Sunbow's GI Joe series, even the original Transformers), and when I stop caring about nostalgia, you realize how bad the things you grew up with were. Does that mean I automatically hate them? No. It just means I want my current stuff updated to resemble what I want nowadays. Most of the MOTUC do this, but there are some figures that do not. That is why I do not like certain figures, they do not fit what I desire.

[kup]

I am also a fan from the 80s line that appreciates and even prefers the 200x take on the franchise. So I am certainly not a 'newer MOTU fan'.

[phantom1592]

I always dislike the notion that folks campaigning for more MO2K influence somehow "didn't understand" what the line was about or that we had to come to some realization of what the toyline was meant to be.wanted more MO2K-straight figures or for MO2K to become the guiding element.:

Here's the secret I think to happier Forums.... If some comment doens't apply to you personally... Ignore it.

A lot of people take offense to things that are not directed at them.

I know there were some extreme folks that might have come around like ToyGuru describes (though it's more likely they've gone away), but for the folks I know that still want more MO2K, myself included, we were never wanting what dedset is describing here. That said, the line has been doing a somewhat better job of incorporating MO2K elements which may also aid to a decline in rants. Just don't mention Clawful or Buzz-Off to me and I'll stay relatively quiet.

THIS is the key... There WERE some VERY extreme 200x fans, who aboslutely wnated straight remakes of 200x with unique sculpts and various sizes.

SOME people STILL do... I STILL see the occasional thread for a 'teen buck' adam and a giant buck Beastman.

Are they the majority? Not in the least... and a LOT of those names that I remember leading the 'era wars' HAVE moved on or at least stopped posting.

Making a statement that 'people realized what the line was about... the mixing of the eras and parts reuse...' OBVIOUSLY doesn't apply to the people who realized it all along. It's talking about the people who DIDN'T... and a lot of them quit the line after the realization.

This whole blog series is a time travel trip... Back in 2008-9, waht the line was, and what people were asking for is VERY different from our more modernly evolved sensabilities

[dedset13]

I always dislike the notion that folks campaigning for more MO2K influence somehow "didn't understand" what the line was about or that we had to come to some realization of what the toyline was meant to be. For the majority of posts I've seen here and elsewhere regarding a MO2K influence, it seemed clear to me that the idea behind the notion was for the formula of Classicization to incorporate a little more MO2K than it currently does, not that folks wanted more MO2K-straight figures or for MO2K to become the guiding element.

I know there were some extreme folks that might have come around like ToyGuru describes (though it's more likely they've gone away), but for the folks I know that still want more MO2K, myself included, we were never wanting what dedset is describing here.

I don't think you understood my post. What I said was actually quite accurate.

When Classics first started, whenever a figure was announced before being revealed, there was lots of speculation on whether the character would look vintage or 200X. At that point in the line, it wasn't made clear that figures would always be done in a mostly vintage style. There were many 200X fans who were hoping and campaigning for upcoming figures to be made with their 200X look. I think MGM can vouch for that, as he was at the heart of most of the campaigning.

Anyway, around the time Hordak was revealed, ToyGuru made a now infamous statement that the 200X style was retired. He had to make that statement because there were lots of fans who "didn't understand" what Classics was going to be. After that statement is when most people really understood the direction this line was taking.

The "folks campaigning for more M02K influence" are not the people I'm referring to. Those "folks" are the ones who understand what the line is about and have "gotten on board" with Classics, for the most part.

[He-Boy]

A lot of people are reading way too literally into everything, from the definition of ‘classic’ to what a 200X element is. It is all irrelevant anyway because messages from TG change all the time. What he says today could be contradicted tomorrow. And that’s not necessarily always his fault. Things change.

Originally TG said that having multiple heads would confuse people at retail. Since then we’ve heard catchphrases like “upper management” “retired” and “hyper anime” – none of it making all that much sense. Personally, I think it’s all just to keep costs down. Simple as that. All this talk of Whiplash’s 200X head sneaking through and Marzo being too detailed is convenient BS. Both were afterthoughts that have conveniently been used by TG to sell the story. Personally, I think it’s characters like Trap Jaw/Kronis that got ‘upper managements’ attention (also an afterthought IMO).

I initially thought that their plan was to bring out Battleground-esque variants with 200X heads but, even if that was the case, given the negative response to BG Evil Lyn and SMAA I can’t see it happening now. There is a line between what we consider a variant and a cheap repaint and I think we’ve made that pretty clear to Mattel.

What bothers me is this ridiculous adherence to the ‘rules’. Like the minimum 2 accessories per figure. Combined with other ridiculous rules like the “no 200X heads” rule, this has resulted in things like Clawful being released with a redundant shield and only one head. (yeah, I know the shield comment is my opinion and not fact, but c’mon).

I still want 200X heads too. I jumped in with MGM on this 2 years ago, and I'm with him today. This really is a chance to take the best elements of each version and meld them into a great figure. The most goofy elements of the 80's figures, like Buzz-Off's or Clawful's heads can include the much more aesthetically pleasing 200X versions for those of us who want them.

This comment nails it. For TG to suggest that we no longer care is a joke.

[Capt_Piett]

It's just sort of like beating a dead horse and dancing about on it's grave singing "Hallelujah" at this point. 200X fans KNOW what they're going to get in a figure when it's released; they just don't know WHAT if ANY 200X influences a figure will have. To me, this thread is kind of dragging up the whole thing all over again about the divide between the various MOTU faction eras but in a different way.

As I said, the odds of getting a strictly 200X figure in terms of the look are likely nigh impossible. And yet people still go on about it as if it's a surprise.

[kup]

As I said, the odds of getting a strictly 200X figure in terms of the look are likely nigh impossible. And yet people still go on about it as if it's a surprise.

I don't think that this is what the thread is about

[austin81]

200X is the key to make awesome motuc !!!

Fisto Motuc is one of the best!

he comes with 2 heads and with classic and 200X accessories!
you must give to the collectors the choise to create a 200X figure or a classic figure!

200X line is also important to give to the motuc a modern look.....

200X STILL RULES !!! Motuc are great thanks to the 200X line!!! they are vintage with present day elements!

Figures that are totally different from the vintage is right to make a new 200X figure like you maked for Evil Lyn, Zodak ecc....

hope to see in the future:

Heman 200X
Skeletor 200X (my top want)
Sorceress 200X (totally different from the vintage, really awesome)
i'd like to see a double head unmasked of zodak.... :/

[MegaGearMax]

funny when people complain about muppet heads on MOTUC. they are the heads that look like the vintage the most.

Well, that's the point...there are the original heads that appealed to kids and then there are the 200X heads that appealed to the realistic, ultra-detailed McFarlane crowd.

[lorde trooper]

Really wished we had more 200x heads, i dont understand why they are closing the door on a part of motu history, i know they want to retire the look its been mentioned countless times, this coming from the people making the same decisions on sending out motuc without any packaging, until TG interveined, and countless other poor decisions mentioned in TGs blogs, at the end of the day this line is aimed at the adult collector so why not add 200x heads, for the record i like hyper anime style aswell.

[MegaGearMax]

THIS is the key... There WERE some VERY extreme 200x fans, who aboslutely wnated straight remakes of 200x with unique sculpts and various sizes.

I don't think you understood my post. What I said was actually quite accurate.

When Classics first started, whenever a figure was announced before being revealed, there was lots of speculation on whether the character would look vintage or 200X. At that point in the line, it wasn't made clear that figures would always be done in a mostly vintage style. There were many 200X fans who were hoping and campaigning for upcoming figures to be made with their 200X look. I think MGM can vouch for that, as he was at the heart of most of the campaigning.

Anyway, around the time Hordak was revealed, ToyGuru made a now infamous statement that the 200X style was retired. He had to make that statement because there were lots of fans who "didn't understand" what Classics was going to be. After that statement is when most people really understood the direction this line was taking.

The "folks campaigning for more M02K influence" are not the people I'm referring to. Those "folks" are the ones who understand what the line is about and have "gotten on board" with Classics, for the most part.

dedset is correct. In 2008, I thought that every figure in every MOTU was going to get recreated, except for 200X being left out, because Mattel probably thought it was a failure. Later, we got a better sense of the line: 200X looks can't be EXACTLY recreated because of the limited tooling budget. Now the thing that some 200X fans want is to keep all the good ideas from 200X reincarnated in Classics. For example, the kid Adam from 200X might not be sculpt for sculpt the same, but we'd have a figure representing the idea that Adam looks different from He-Man. The trick is in the Classicization: Classicize something down too much and the point or look of the original concept is ARGUABLY lost (Battleground Evil-Lyn having Teela's dress when she had her own outfit, Snake Man-At-Arms originally being the original MAA repainted--alot of fans didn't see how he was different, 200X He-Man being a lackluster repaint that most fans won't want to buy, Keldor's Swords being two purple power swords).

It's just sort of like beating a dead horse and dancing about on it's grave singing "Hallelujah" at this point. 200X fans KNOW what they're going to get in a figure when it's released; they just don't know WHAT if ANY 200X influences a figure will have. To me, this thread is kind of dragging up the whole thing all over again about the divide between the various MOTU faction eras but in a different way.

As I said, the odds of getting a strictly 200X figure in terms of the look are likely nigh impossible. And yet people still go on about it as if it's a surprise.

Most people aren't asking for strictly 200X figures. If anything, we'd want 200X heads included with the 200X weapons and accessories that we are already getting included with the vintage figures so that we could customize whatever version of the character that we want. This whole thread is about 200X heads.

Think Fisto. Now imagine if every MOTUC figure who had a 200X incarnation was as great as that figure turned out? We would ALL enjoy Buzz-Off, Snout Spout, Clawful, Sy-Klone and Grizzlor alot more, instead of the constant mention of muppet heads by fans who dislike the vintage version OR fans who didn't buy those figures due to those heads.

[Lay Ze-Man]

Over the past several years, I have tried (in vain) to have fans try to champion updated or modernized versions instead of asking for more 200x.

Yes, the 4H had some awesome design ideas in 200x, but as has been proven with just about every release since, they in no way have run out of ideas.

So just because they had something great with 200x doesn't necessarily mean that's the one and only solution to updating these characters (while still firmly in the MOTUC style) to appeal to the "Adult Collector" these are supposed to be made for.


That said, because I can, I'm leaving these here.

[Mad Scientist]

Wow!!! I love this Buzz off!!! I retract myself by saying that 200x style would not fit on Buzz off´s body . Absolutely amazing!! The wings are a good touch too!

[Mr. Shokoti]

Only the hyper detail should be retired not the interpretation. We were told the classics line was supposed to encompass all different versions of motu. Why single out 2002? Why not say, NA is retired or POP is retired and we're not doing any of those figures.

Because NA & POP are entirely different entities with different characters. 2002 was just the vintage line with a black Zodac. Seriously, 2002 fans have seen a great deal of it in MOTUC while vintage POP fans haven't seen a single second head nor much in terms of designs that weren't from Filmation. I feel they have more to be upset about than 2002 fans do.

[Irian]

I totally agree that POP and NA fans can ask for more. State your opinion wherever you can. What I cannot agree with is this constant playing fans against each other. This "you do not have a right to voice your opinion if I do not get what *I* want" gets me.

This thread is about 200X fans stating they still want heads inspired by 200X done in Classics style. So why do other fans bring up other 200X inspired accessories (that are not heads) to silence this opinion? Why do they say "but NA only got X"?

And why are *we* now the ones that are dividing the fandom? I've never gone into a thread that supports POP and said the POP fans should stop voicing their opinion because I don't get heads that were inspired by 200X. So why is it that whenever we voice our opinion on 200X inspired head in Classics style someone implies we are destroying the fandom?

[MegaGearMax]

I totally agree that POP and NA fans can ask for more. State your opinion wherever you can. What I cannot agree with is this constant playing fans against each other. This "you do not have a right to voice your opinion if I do not get what *I* want" gets me.

This thread is about 200X fans stating they still want heads inspired by 200X done in Classics style. So why do other fans bring up other 200X inspired accessories (that are not heads) to silence this opinion? Why do they say "but NA only got X"?

And why are *we* now the ones that are dividing the fandom? I've never gone into a thread that supports POP and said the POP fans should stop voicing their opinion because I don't get heads that were inspired by 200X. So why is it that whenever we voice our opinion on 200X inspired head in Classics style someone implies we are destroying the fandom?

Welcome to the Era Wars™, Irian.

[Benedict Judas Hel]

Welcome to the Era Wars™, Irian.

General MegaGearMax...leader of the 200X army!

[Mr. Shokoti]

Welcome to the Era Wars™, Irian.

I don't think it's an "Era War". It's people who realize it's just a toyline and there will always be things in it they don't like VS people who seem unable to cope without every toy being made exactly how they want it.

[MegaGearMax]

I don't think it's an "Era War". It's people who realize it's just a toyline and there will always be things in it they don't like VS people who seem unable to cope without every toy being made exactly how they want it.

Unable to cope? I'm a fan who is requesting for things that fans want to get made--like most of us tend to do. One thing I'm not doing is trying to tell other fans what they should want. Unless you have an agenda, why go to all the trouble of silencing or countering the opinions of fans who want something made in a toyline? If you don't like what some fans are campaigning for, then avoid those threads and don't purchase the figures should they get made.

[Darkspecter]

I think this thread needs this: MEOW!

Seriously though, I don't see why anyone would be against something like MOTUC Fisto, for example. You get the capability of making him Classic 80's or 200X. I think he's the perfect example of what MOTUC should be. Multiple display options, kept it classic with an updated head sculpt (not just ported over from the 80's) and has some new details (neck collar markings). He also sold out pretty damn fast, which might mean people bought multiples to display both looks. From my understanding, most people LOVE it when Mattel makes the multiple display option figures (Queen Marlena, Trap-Jaw, etc). If an extra head + weapon + belt or something makes a LOT of fans happy and you don't have to use them if you don't want to, I don't get what the problem is?

It kind of reminds me of when I (and others) campaigned for EXTRA PoP heads with rooted hair, that would be HIDDEN MOC. It would make a bunch of PoP fans happy, but a lot of people freaked out about the idea. *shakes head* People trying to stop EXTRAS that will make all fans happy (plastic hair for some, rooted for others or classic and 200X heads) makes me very sad. Shouldn't we want the most possible amount of people being happy? Especially since the sales of this line are going down. More happy fans = higher sales. Think about it.

[Lipster]

Welcome to the Era Wars™, Irian.

Lipster reporting for duty, Sir.

[phantom1592]

It kind of reminds me of when I (and others) campaigned for EXTRA PoP heads with rooted hair, that would be HIDDEN MOC. It would make a bunch of PoP fans happy, but a lot of people freaked out about the idea. *shakes head* People trying to stop EXTRAS that will make all fans happy (plastic hair for some, rooted for others or classic and 200X heads) makes me very sad. Shouldn't we want the most possible amount of people being happy? Especially since the sales of this line are going down. More happy fans = higher sales. Think about it.

Speaking only for myself here, I worry about the all important 'budget'. Do I want PoP fans of rooted hair to be happy?

Absolutely! I want Everyone EVERWHERE to be happy. I think we should all get the 100% toys of our dreams!


However it's not 'logistically' possible. Do I want you to have rooted hair on a 3rd She-ra head? Sure... Do I want Extra heads for clawful and catra and adora if it means no Tanks for Stinkor (or smell), No giant sword for Fisto, No energy punch for TP He-man, and no wings for Draego Man?


Not a chance!


A LOT of these figures get a LOT of accesories... There could be MORE... but honestly we DO get a lot... and Between Flame whips and HP staffs... and unpainted stinkor weapons.... I'm just too tired of LOSING what we already DO have, to champion the cause for accessories and heads that are just going to end up in a baggie in the drawer for me.

[MegaGearMax]

A LOT of these figures get a LOT of accesories... There could be MORE... but honestly we DO get a lot... and Between Flame whips and HP staffs... and unpainted stinkor weapons.... I'm just too tired of LOSING what we already DO have, to champion the cause for accessories and heads that are just going to end up in a baggie in the drawer for me.

That's all relative. A kick-ass accessory for you could be bin fodder for me. Now if Mattel could cover all the bases like Fisto, then everyone could select what works for them, specifically.

[Mr. Shokoti]

Unable to cope? I'm a fan who is requesting for things that fans want to get made--like most of us tend to do. One thing I'm not doing is trying to tell other fans what they should want. Unless you have an agenda, why go to all the trouble of silencing or countering the opinions of fans who want something made in a toyline? If you don't like what some fans are campaigning for, then avoid those threads and don't purchase the figures should they get made.

These "requests" show up in threads that have nothing to do with them. I barely participate in this forum these days & I still see them.

Wanting things is one thing. IMO, unreasonable & unrealistic requests made after every new reveal is something different. Most of the time, once a toy is revealed, that's it. There will be no changes, no 2.0's, and no alternate era variants. I'd bet money you like this line more than I do. I just realized it's pointless to keep going on & on about one's displeasures once initially voiced. It's futile and also bums out those who disagree(and even some of those who do agree).