Classics machine...what applies?

[WDWFreak53]

Okay, so time and time again we have been told by ToyGuru that these characters are put through the "Classics machine" so 200x versions will not happen because that style is retired.

That is all fine and good if they want everything to look universal.
Why then...did we get variant paint jobs for the TRU sets to make them look like their comic colors? Why do we have an Alcala Skeletor head (Alcala style had been retired way before the 200x style ;-) ).

So...it's "No" to Filmation but yes to Alcala. It's no to 200x but yes for comics.
Something tells me if they know a figure is going to be a tough sell, they'll pop in a Filmation Skeletor head.

I'm not complaining about anything...I love the Alcala head...but if you're trying to keep a certain style throughout the line, then why add versions that aren't from this style?

I'm sure it's because the Alcala style went through the Classics machine...but TG has said no to Filmation and 200x...why not put them through the machine?

So I guess my question is...what is okay to put through the machine and what isn't?

[DJ Force]

You know... Now that we´ve got the Alcala Skeletor head, have been shown Duncans armcannon and Keldors double blade sword... I wouldn´t ask this kind of questions too often. We are getting things we want and sometimes didn´t even specifically asked for as a bonus - which is totally fine with me!
I´m not saying that we must stop asking for particular accessories - but we shouldn´t be asking what applies to MOTUC and what is retired. Just my guts telling me so.

[eddie3429]

Acala head has in story reason behind it (Demo man possession )

and it's more about a uniformed style for the line then it is about the origin of a design,

[WDWFreak53]

I'm not complaining at all...the exact opposite! I'd like to see more of those things popped into the Classics machine. From Day 1 this line was to celebrate all forms of MotU so I feel that everything should be on the table!

[Swanmarsh]

You know... Now that we´ve got the Alcala Skeletor head, have been shown Duncans armcannon and Keldors double blade sword... I wouldn´t ask this kind of questions too often. We are getting things we want and sometimes didn´t even specifically asked for as a bonus - which is totally fine with me!
I´m not saying that we must stop asking for particular accessories - but we shouldn´t be asking what applies to MOTUC and what is retired. Just my guts telling me so.

^ This.

Lets not force Mattel to make up firm rules by having to justify their inconsistencies. Let's just press for things we want and let the 4H and Mattel management work out the classicising machine.

[Spacedust]

Ever since the dawn of the line, there has been contradiction after contradiction over what does and doesn't go into the Classics.

Personally, regarding the "what applies" question, I've always seen it as fair game that any general design from an era applies, but done in a Classics style - which is an updated vintage line appearance in terms of size, proportions and appearance. For the different paint jobs, example, I think of it as characters wearing different clothes kinda, which can easily be realised. We can see different "looks" in terms of colours and designs, but we won't be seeing say, huge Man-At-Arms shoulderpads, hulking (whichever larger 200x figure you choose) or such in the Classics. I've always taken it to be more more of a rule about scale, than of what actual "ideas" we might ever see in the line.
But then... with Matty... it's pretty much "guess what we're thinking" each time, cos you never can tell.

[WDWFreak53]

I'm just saying that you can put the Filmation and 200x style through the machine too. I understand that the 200x head was a straight copy...but if you put that look into the Classics machine, it would not look like the vintage MotU head.

When there is a major difference between the different styles, then I feel that they should be on the table.

Good examples:
Merman vintage, 200x/card back, Filmation
Notice how I lumped the card back and 200x together because they are similar...but the other two are drastically different.

Trap Jaw...the version we got is fine as he is always depicted in this similar way.

[Replikor]

As for the "Classics Machine"... I feel this is referring more to the body parts used for the MOTUC update.

on that note...

An I have to honestly say... the Mighty Spector breaks this concept.

Look at his parts used in the display images of him. If you notice he uses the same lower leg as man-e-faces, roboto, and trap jaw. So if his illustration would have been retro-created as a vintage figure first he would have used the "full man-e-faces, roboto, and trap jaw leg for his vintage version.
Ok, point made.
Now update that vintage figure as a MOTUC figure, he would have the same parts for his lower leg as Man-E-Faces, Roboto, and Trap Jaw.

..oops... he doesn't.

...he only has half of it for some... weird... reason?????

[Thrawn29]

Whatever arbitrary decision the "geniuses" who run Mattel decide to apply at any given time. Their own internal rules have been broken many times already. It's supposed to be a unified look, but the inclusion of the Alcala head clearly breaks the Classics "Uniformed One Style Rule".

That's not a complaint, mind you. I love the Alcala head, it represents everything this line should be about. It's only the 200x heads that are singled out as bad. There also appears to be some resistance to Filmation heads as well.

I'd love a Filmation specific Skeletor, Teela, and Hordak. Wouldn't mind a Filmation Merman if it happens, but I'm not clamoring for it. I want 200x heads for Buzz-Off and Clawful.

[mekaneckpain]

The classics machine is a little bit like Spectors Time Machine, except it isn't as small and you can't wear it on your wrist.


Trying to describe just what the "classics" standard is is very tricky. I suppose in simple terms, The standard buck, arms, legs, etc must be utilized for the design of the figure. However, head sculpts are also very tricky. If the figure is a classics version of a vintage figure, the design will stay true to the vintage figures looks. For example, Buzz-Off... His head is practically the same as the vintage one in terms of design. But if the 4H are given permission to add 200x or Filmation elements, they will at their own discretion. The Alcala Head is not a deviation from the classic style. The 200x whiplash head and Count Marzo's hair style IS a deviation, and should not be repeated. Lately Mattel has been trying to sneak in as many 200x elements within the figures --- The loophole Mattel used with Fisto is taking the Classics head design and making a second one with the 200x headband. The rules are pretty flexible with the Classics machine.

[MegaGearMax]

Okay, so time and time again we have been told by ToyGuru that these characters are put through the "Classics machine" so 200x versions will not happen because that style is retired.

That is all fine and good if they want everything to look universal.
Why then...did we get variant paint jobs for the TRU sets to make them look like their comic colors? Why do we have an Alcala Skeletor head (Alcala style had been retired way before the 200x style ;-) ).

So...it's "No" to Filmation but yes to Alcala. It's no to 200x but yes for comics.
Something tells me if they know a figure is going to be a tough sell, they'll pop in a Filmation Skeletor head.

I'm not complaining about anything...I love the Alcala head...but if you're trying to keep a certain style throughout the line, then why add versions that aren't from this style?

I'm sure it's because the Alcala style went through the Classics machine...but TG has said no to Filmation and 200x...why not put them through the machine?

So I guess my question is...what is okay to put through the machine and what isn't?

There is no logic behind the Classicizer™. We can get stylistically different heads from all across MOTU history -- cardbacks, styleguides, UK comics, Alcala art, but no 200X heads. So the whole "confusing moms and kids about the brand identity" doesn't wash if we have two different Mer-Man faces or two different Skeletor faces. And that's heads. Figure-wise, we have both blonde and redhaired Teelas or green and blue Mer-Men.

Now since Toyguru claims that there is no mythical "200X hating executive" over at Mattel, 200X might be singled out because Mattel could be saving up those variants in particular for future variants. If this is so, then I wish they would simply tell us this instead of saying those heads are "retired". Mattel doesn't say that Ram Man is retired, he isn't coming out anytime soon. However, if Mattel DID include 200X heads with upcoming refreshes, fans want more than 200X heads on the same figures. For example, a Sy-Klone refresh should have a 200X head, get painted in his darker 200X colors and have his shoulder rings. Maybe a smaller ring on his back.

[Whiplash7]

Why then...did we get variant paint jobs for the TRU sets to make them look like their comic colors?

The line is based on vintage toys and artwork. The TRU sets follow this rule.

Why do we have an Alcala Skeletor head

Vintage artwork, and tied into Demo-Man (greenish head, instead of yellow).

TG has said no to Filmation and 200x...why not put them through the machine?

If you put them through the machine, you get the figures we have.
The cartoon looks are reserved for cartoon characters. If it was a toy or minicomic/cardback first, that's what the MOTUC figure will be.

There is no logic behind the Classicizer™. We can get stylistically different heads from all across MOTU history -- cardbacks, styleguides, UK comics, Alcala art, but no 200X heads. So the whole "confusing moms and kids about the brand identity" doesn't wash if we have two different Mer-Man faces or two different Skeletor faces. And that's heads. Figure-wise, we have both blonde and redhaired Teelas or green and blue Mer-Men.

Again, all based on vintage artwork.

[PPC]

The only thing consistent with the "Classics Machine" is it's inconsistency.

[EldestSon]

have they ever said that 200x was out? i'm pretty sure they've been including 200x stuff for awhile. they just classicize it to make it fit into this classics line.

that doesn't mean that every character that appeared in 200x will get an additional 200x head/accessory. they only have so many new tooling/sculpting slots per year. they probably have to ration to make sure they can make all of the figures for that year, then if they have left over slots, they go back and add things like second heads...but since they are limited on slots, i'm guessing that's why not every fig gets a 2nd head.

[Uki]

Acala head has in story reason behind it (Demo man possession )

and it's more about a uniformed style for the line then it is about the origin of a design,

Agreed! The only ones that don't seem to have an obvious in-story reason are Whiplash and maybe Mer-Man. (I like to think of MM's vintage head as his dehydrated look.) Any ideas for Whiplash?

[Berserker79]

There seems not to be any consistent rules...

[eddie3429]

Agreed! The only ones that don't seem to have an obvious in-story reason are Whiplash and maybe Mer-Man. (I like to think of MM's vintage head as his dehydrated look.) Any ideas for Whiplash?

Here is were it gets tricky. Whiplash is the the 1 extra design element that slipped through, something mattel regrets now.

Mer-man, Stinkor, Moss- Man fall under a new design to vintage. were because they share heads they are allowed a reinvisoned head so its not just the same figure. although i am sure story elements could be added to all at ones own chooisng, i like amons idea the old school moss man head is his POG and his big foot looking one is his Modern day

[BadVermin]

Whatever arbitrary decision the "geniuses" who run Mattel decide to apply at any given time. Their own internal rules have been broken many times already.

^This.

There is no internal constancy to how these design decisions are handled. ToyGuru contradicts himself almost every time he opens his mouth.

[shadowfall1976]

There is a difference between 200X style, and making something based on 200X for Classics....Keldor is a good example of a 200X character done in Classics styling. Something doesn't have to have the 200X style to be 200X.

We have a 200X Fisto head, but it still looks like the Classics/Vintage head with a head band. 200X had a more sharper lines, exaggerated styling, and more modern than vintage style to the clothing and armors, therefore when you put something 200X through the design phase into Classics, you get a somewhat stripped down, more vintage looking figure....like Keldor.

What I don't get is there are 200X elements in Classics, and so many say there is nothing, or make it seem like not much....point being 200X is gone, this is Classics, you still get 200X elements, but not the stlying, and there is a difference between styling and elements just based on it. Classics was meant to homage the vintage line while bringing in all aspects of MOTU, but taking them back to vintage styling, then back to Classics styling, therefore the 200X style won't creep in much at all, even though it tried with a couple figures.

[MegaGearMax]

The line is based on vintage toys and artwork. The TRU sets follow this rule.

Vintage artwork, and tied into Demo-Man (greenish head, instead of yellow).

TG never gave THAT excuse. He said that 200X heads confused moms and kids and looked like a different brand, even though the extra head isn't even visible in the package.

If you put them through the machine, you get the figures we have.
The cartoon looks are reserved for cartoon characters. If it was a toy or minicomic/cardback first, that's what the MOTUC figure will be.

Except for She-Ra, Bow and Catra. We got both original toy and styleguide looks.

[Whiplash7]

TG never gave THAT excuse. He said that 200X heads confused moms and kids and looked like a different brand, even though the extra head isn't even visible in the package.

Well the line has been pretty clearly defined in terms of how figures are going to look. That's what the figures are based on, whether TG ever directly used that 'excuse' for no more 200x heads or not. He likely has stated it one way or another towards this specific issue, although at this point he really shouldn't have to.

Except for She-Ra, Bow and Catra. We got both original toy and styleguide looks.

Those are PoP, not motu. Another guiding point of the line is that non-motu figures are made to look as they might have if they had been part of the original line. If PoP characters had been in motu, they most surely would not have looked like the girly toys, they would have been more filmation-based to fit in with the boys line.

[RockinHard]

Well the line has been pretty clearly defined in terms of how figures are going to look. That's what the figures are based on, whether TG ever directly used that 'excuse' for no more 200x heads or not. He likely has stated it one way or another towards this specific issue, although at this point he really shouldn't have to.


Those are PoP, not motu. Another guiding point of the line is that non-motu figures are made to look as they might have if they had been part of the original line. If PoP characters had been in motu, they most surely would not have looked like the girly toys, they would have been more filmation-based to fit in with the boys line.

I agree with everything you've just stated.

[BadVermin]

There is no rhyme or reason to how the figures are designed. Some have strong 200X elements, some do not. Some figures have their goofy looking faces fixed (Fisto) some are 100% vintage (Clawful). Some figures have their eyes painted realistically (He-Man, KG, Fisto, etc) while other have very cartoony eyes with no detail (Queen, Trapjaw). It's very frustrating as there is zero consistency.

Just for fun, I "updated" Skeletor, Beastman and Webstor as if they were put through the same Classiciser as used on Buzz-Off, Clawful and Roboto. I'm sure some people would absolutely love if the figures looked like this, but I'm not one of them.

[Prahvus]

It's now very obvious that the "classicizing machine" is yet another invention from Toyguru/Matty to justify what he deems is OK for MOTUC, and to refuse what he doesn't want.

[He-Dad]

There is no rhyme or reason to how the figures are designed. Some have strong 200X elements, some do not. Some figures have their goofy looking faces fixed (Fisto) some are 100% vintage (Clawful). Some figures have their eyes painted realistically (He-Man, KG, Fisto, etc) while other have very cartoony eyes with no detail (Queen, Trapjaw). It's very frustrating as there is zero consistency.

Just for fun, I "updated" Skeletor, Beastman and Webstor as if they were put through the same Classiciser as used on Buzz-Off, Clawful and Roboto. I'm sure some people would absolutely love if the figures looked like this, but I'm not one of them.

http://i50.tinypic.com/b55mr7.jpg

I kinda like that skeletor