Toyguru Mattycollector.com MOTUC News Thread May 2012

[Horde08]

As for my knowledge... I have a lot of friends in the right places. I don't spoil because I don't want to ruin Scott's fun. He's given the blessing for speculation. I think it's fun... and it just keeps us talking about the toys.

but what you do isn't always speculation. Alot of times you come across as rubbing your "knowledge" in our faces.

[Eternian Poet]

So you're saying we're getting Netossa, Castaspella, Glimmer, and Sweet Bee then?


Just kiddin.

[Eternian Poet]

Alot of times you come across as rubbing your "knowledge" in our faces.

please bcrduke, rub your "knowledge" in our faces!!

[markatisu]

I honestly think the main problem with She-Ra's crew being shortchanged in the line (and it has been, proportionally speaking) is the old ETID syndrome (Entrenched Toy Industry Dogma) that is simply part of the Mattel mindset. It doesn't matter that the POP characters have had some of the fastest sell-outs of any of the figures, even compared to some vintage figures folks were sure would sell faster. It doesn't matter that this is an adult collector line and the rule of "girls don't sell" applies to child aimed lines. There is still going to be an undercurrent of this bias even in a collector's line simply because it is so pervasive at Mattel as to almost be an obsession (thus the "dogma" part).

They've been doing better as the line has continued, mind you, and this year looks pretty good with the Star Sisters, Sorceress, Weaver and Frosta, but it is still way too much of a boys club in a property with so many strong female characters.

Not to take away from your post because I agree with most of it, but it also needs to be stated it is not just a Mattel problem.

It permeates at Hasbro and even smaller companies like Bandai and Playmates. For the new TMNT line they are packing in 1 April O'Neil and that is it. Cheetara was shortpacked in the Thundercats. DCUC suffers from the same situations of imbalance though because there were so many waves females did get more of a say. GI Joe gets shafted in the female figure department.

The reason it is an issue with MOTUC is because even though its a collectors line its funded by a company that makes it money at retail. MOTUC earning money makes no difference in the grand mindset of how a toyline is run. People like to say "well its a collectors line" but in the grand scheme of things its just another line at Mattel so it gets treated as such.

Sadly its 2012 but the industry at times down to their core are still WAY behind, I understand the financial reasons behind it but its still a sad state of affairs.

[Shadow-Ra]

Just as BCR stated.

I am also very much male, and I also want all the ladies. This isn't a 'boys club' as some of you are putting it. It's a collectors line consisting all all different types of people.

Also to reiterate BCR's post about a particular Facebook group which has hundreds of members, I'm part of one of them and we're all about the ladies of the line.

Bring on the women!!!

[Tribal Spaceman]

I agree with a lot of things people are saying in this thread, and can see both points of view. I'll just say how I see things, anyway.

To me, the She-Ra mythos is equal to that of He-Man and deserves more than an occasional "guest spot" in the Masters of the Universe Classics toyline. Despite this being a collector-based series it seems her and her friends are being treated the same as female characters in the 80s and 90s were, with a very small percentage of characters actually being immortalised in plastic because "boys don't want them".

I wish Mattel had integrated the Great Rebellion into the toyline earlier on, so that the fans that might not be as eager to get them could get used to seeing their kind in Classics and maybe even learn to love them, the same way that someone like myself has become fond of Vikor and Demo-Man. Once they'd released the core members of She-Ra, Bow and Glimmer (the He-Man, Teela and Duncan of the series, if you will) I'd have mixed in a couple of characters per year, perhaps an "A-lister" like Frosta and a lesser known character like Netossa, to help balance things out.

Looking ahead I'm sure there will be a lot more characters from the Princess of Power mythos in this toy line in 2013 and 2014, I just hope the majority of fans embrace them and don't whinge and say MOTUC has gone too "girly". These characters have as much right to be made as the others.

[Zodach]

Just because you and a few others are talking about this here on the Org, doesn't mean you can label the entire customer base a boys club.

Easy there duke. I didn't label the entire customer base as a boys club. Please reread my quote:

"I think the majority of people buying these toys are male and probably favor the male characters they played with as kids."

There are at least two very large Facebook groups right now with hundreds of active members who are HUGELY in favor of more women in the line. You can't fight that kind of buying power, my friend. Sorry.

I'm curious, do these active members of the Facebook groups purchase the figures currently? I'm sure you will find plenty of POP fans who remember He-man and She-ra fondly, but are they actually buying the product? Because if they're not I don't see why their opinion matters.

Though, I really doubt, once you have them in hand, that you'll hate the 4H's versions of characters like Castaspella, Netossa, Glimmer, and Mermista.

I never said I would hate figures of those POP characters, but they are nowhere near the top of my list. There is a reason we are getting more vintage MOTU figures this year and that's because they are more popular. I think POP fans will get what they want, they just have to be patient. Vintage MOTU is what sells this line more than anything else.

[Tallstar]

I'm curious, do these active members of the Facebook groups purchase the figures currently? I'm sure you will find plenty of POP fans who remember He-man and She-ra fondly, but are they actually buying the product? Because if they're not I don't see why their opinion matters.

Yes, many of them do. There's a large group of POP fans who don't really post on the boards that often or at all.

[Zodach]

Not to take away from your post because I agree with most of it, but it also needs to be stated it is not just a Mattel problem.

It permeates at Hasbro and even smaller companies like Bandai and Playmates. For the new TMNT line they are packing in 1 April O'Neil and that is it. Cheetara was shortpacked in the Thundercats. DCUC suffers from the same situations of imbalance though because there were so many waves females did get more of a say. GI Joe gets shafted in the female figure department.

You know, I'm curious why you guys think this practice of having fewer females in action figure lines is such a bad thing? Isn't it pretty much young boys buying these lines at retail and don't you think they are going to choose the male characters over the female characters for the most part? It is a dated standard in the industry, but what makes you think toy companies and retailers haven't found it to be true and accurate based on sales data and testing?

[MegaGearMax]

Really? Name any of the females made so far other than the Star Sisters or maybe BG Lynn that has not been highly demanded. She-Ra? Sorceress? Marlena? Adora? Weaver? Even Frosta has consistently topped many lists. And though the Sisters may not have topped any lists, there have been a lot of fans who asked for them. True, there are still a lot of females that are also in demand, but the ones that have been made were, for the most part, very much wanted.

As far as the general discussion of POP goes, it is not a separate property except on a trademark list. And it should never be treated as such. She-Ra is too integrally ingrained into the mythos thanks to the cartoons to ever be able to really separate them (if you do, you wind up with something like the recent Bionic Woman, which is half a story without the six Million Dollar Man, and its ratings showed that). The battle between the great rebellion and the Horde is as important to the story of He-Man as Skeletor's quest to conquer Grayskull and Eternia.

It's not a faction, it's an inseparable, indispensable part of the story.

Not for everyone. You can have MOTU without POP, but it's harder to have POP without MOTU (He-Man, the Horde, Sorceress, Castle Grayskull). Thanks to the marketing back then, boys didn't have to go over to the girl's aisle to grab POP figures. POP wasn't needed for the MOTU collection.

Some fans only followed MOTU in the 80's, thanks to Mattel trying to keep them as separate brands and not having much crossover/interactive media aside from Filmation and a few rare examples. STAR Comics He-Man comic series barely had any POP references (but they did have them) and a whole run of mini-comics, Golden books and other books without any crossovers. Even He-Man's own series don't have POP in them aside from Origin of the Sorceress. Horde yes, Great Rebellion, no. In most MOTU lore, we have Etheria depicted with any mention of rebels or She-Ra.

You know, I'm curious why you guys think this practice of having fewer females in action figure lines is such a bad thing? Isn't it pretty much young boys buying these lines at retail and don't you think they are going to choose the male characters over the female characters for the most part? It is a dated standard in the industry, but what makes you think toy companies and retailers haven't found it to be true and accurate based on sales data and testing?

Personally, fewer female action figures at retail robs me of a chance to get a valuable cast member to complete my collection. And if they do come out, they are a pain to get at retail.

Women don't sell? I can't get April O' Neil.
Women don't sell? My G.I. Joe team is missing Scarlett.
Women don't sell? I can't get Teela.
Women don't sell? The Justice League is without Wonder Woman.

[Shadow-Ra]

Easy there duke. I didn't label the entire customer base as a boys club. Please reread my quote:






I'm curious, do these active members of the Facebook groups purchase the figures currently? I'm sure you will find plenty of POP fans who remember He-man and She-ra fondly, but are they actually buying the product? Because if they're not I don't see why their opinion matters.



I never said I would hate figures of those POP characters, but they are nowhere near the top of my list. There is a reason we are getting more vintage MOTU figures this year and that's because they are more popular. I think POP fans will get what they want, they just have to be patient. Vintage MOTU is what sells this line more than anything else.

Yes, we do purchase the figures, and 99% of us are members here.

[bamf1980]

I'm curious, do these active members of the Facebook groups purchase the figures currently? I'm sure you will find plenty of POP fans who remember He-man and She-ra fondly, but are they actually buying the product? Because if they're not I don't see why their opinion matters.

As a member of one of those groups, I can say yes, they do funnel money into MOTUC. Not just for the ladies, but for a great deal of the gentlemen as well. Some of them post here, others do not. And I think the turn this thread has started to take speaks volumes as to why they don't.

Back on topic. I am male. I love the female aspect of MOTUC. In fact, I will soon be moving to another country and I will not be able to take my entire collection. But I want to take part of it. And I think I'm settling on that part of it being the PoP portion.

[Jon-O]

It's not a faction, it's an inseparable, indispensable part of the story.
Not for everyone. You can have MOTU without POP, but it's harder to have POP without MOTU (He-Man, the Horde, Sorceress, Castle Grayskull). Thanks to the marketing back then, boys didn't have to go over to the girl's aisle to grab POP figures. POP wasn't needed for the MOTU collection.

Some fans only followed MOTU in the 80's, thanks to Mattel trying to keep them as separate brands and not having much crossover/interactive media aside from Filmation and a few rare examples. STAR Comics He-Man comic series barely had any POP references (but they did have them) and a whole run of mini-comics, Golden books and other books without any crossovers. Even He-Man's own series don't have POP in them aside from Origin of the Sorceress. Horde yes, Great Rebellion, no. In most MOTU lore, we have Etheria depicted with any mention of rebels or She-Ra.

Not for everyone. You can have MOTU without POP, but it's harder to have POP without MOTU (He-Man, the Horde, Sorceress, Castle Grayskull). Thanks to the marketing back then, boys didn't have to go over to the girl's aisle to grab POP figures. POP wasn't needed for the MOTU collection.

Some fans only followed MOTU in the 80's, thanks to Mattel trying to keep them as separate brands and not having much crossover/interactive media aside from Filmation and a few rare examples. STAR Comics He-Man comic series barely had any POP references (but they did have them) and a whole run of mini-comics, Golden books and other books without any crossovers. Even He-Man's own series don't have POP in them aside from Origin of the Sorceress. Horde yes, Great Rebellion, no. In most MOTU lore, we have Etheria depicted with any mention of rebels or She-Ra.

Yes, for some fans, things are one way or another. But when it comes to established continuity, Hordak is an integral part of what happened on Eternia before Adam and Adora were born, not including the fact he kidnapped Adora because he wanted both twins in his conquest for power, and the powers of the universe. The stories are woven together. Even when Hordak came to Eternia in minicomics and such, he still wanted to rule over all.

MOTU didn't mention much POP because so much was written prior to POP. And later, things only crossed over where needed. I know I have a coloring book depicting both MOTU and POP characters in cohesive adventures. It was one of the rare times things seemed as they should be.

[Tallstar]

I honestly think the main problem with She-Ra's crew being shortchanged in the line (and it has been, proportionally speaking) is the old ETID syndrome (Entrenched Toy Industry Dogma) that is simply part of the Mattel mindset. It doesn't matter that the POP characters have had some of the fastest sell-outs of any of the figures, even compared to some vintage figures folks were sure would sell faster. It doesn't matter that this is an adult collector line and the rule of "girls don't sell" applies to child aimed lines. There is still going to be an undercurrent of this bias even in a collector's line simply because it is so pervasive at Mattel as to almost be an obsession (thus the "dogma" part).

I think so too, Scott. I'm particularly annoyed it's happening in this line where females actually sell quite well. It really is a sad state of affairs when it seems like there's not one place/toy line that can be free of the nonsense and politics. I expect MOTUC to be better than that ****, but at every turn it feels like we're bombarded with some sort of double standards and sneaky loopholes that try to justify negative behaviors.

[Zodach]

And I think the turn this thread has started to take speaks volumes as to why they don't.

I don't understand how you see this thread turning in a way that would keep people away. I think it's a respectable conversation for all opinions to be expressed. Some people are going to want more POP, some are happy with how things are currently, and some people want even less POP in the line. Nobody has a more important opinion than the next person. We are all customers of Mattel, but they aren't going to please everyone.

[Jon-O]

but what you do isn't always speculation. Alot of times you come across as rubbing your "knowledge" in our faces.

With all due respect, I've never known him to rub anything in our faces. Merely hint, postulate, or conjecture. We can always gloss over what he has to say...

[bamf1980]

I don't understand how you see this thread turning in a way that would keep people away. I think it's a respectable conversation for all opinions to be expressed. Some people are going to want more POP, some are happy with how things are currently, and some people want even less POP in the line. Nobody has a more important opinion than the next person. We are all customers of Mattel, but they aren't going to please everyone.

Because it is a community that embraces PoP wholeheartedly. There's no need to clarify that any of us actually want PoP, or need PoP in our collections. It leaves us free to just TALK about PoP.

Not that the .org isn't a fun place to be, because it is. But it can be a little rough around here sometimes for fans of certain aspects of the property.

[Tallstar]

Some fans only followed MOTU in the 80's, thanks to Mattel trying to keep them as separate brands and not having much crossover/interactive media aside from Filmation and a few rare examples. STAR Comics He-Man comic series barely had any POP references (but they did have them) and a whole run of mini-comics, Golden books and other books without any crossovers. Even He-Man's own series don't have POP in them aside from Origin of the Sorceress. Horde yes, Great Rebellion, no. In most MOTU lore, we have Etheria depicted with any mention of rebels or She-Ra.

Cathy Larson, an ex-Mattel employee, said that the boys department were worried about having POP associated with their brand. That's probably why there's barely any mention of rebels or She-Ra.

[Berserker79]

Except three of you are claiming that the entire collector base is a "boys club."

Where did I wrote that the entire fandom is a boys club? I spoke only for myself.

[Tribal Spaceman]

Well, the Org is hardly Maple Town but I do like it here.

Embrace the diversity, people!

[Berserker79]

Though, I really doubt, once you have them in hand, that you'll hate the 4H's versions of characters like Castaspella, Netossa, Glimmer, and Mermista.

It´s not about hating POP figures. But I personally have no interest in POP, so I`ll always call for my favorite vintage characters, although 2012 is full of them. So of course, I would prefer vintage characters being thrown out instead of a POP character. I have to accept that many figures belong to this line, I`m desinterested in, but personally I would like to complete my collection as fast as possible.

[RockinHard]

Where did I wrote that the entire fandom is a boys club? I speak only for myself.

And if I'm included in that "three," then I don't get it. I was agreeing with Zodach's point about why many males collect the line and may lean more toward the male characters because that is what many of us had as boys. I for one want the females, but I'm glad it is a "boys club" in the sense that there are more males due to the nostalgic factor of there having been more males/monsters/robots like when I was a kid. No one said "No females."

[phantom1592]

You know, I'm curious why you guys think this practice of having fewer females in action figure lines is such a bad thing? Isn't it pretty much young boys buying these lines at retail and don't you think they are going to choose the male characters over the female characters for the most part? It is a dated standard in the industry, but what makes you think toy companies and retailers haven't found it to be true and accurate based on sales data and testing?

As I get older... the LESS I want to see a lot of females in boys aisles.

When I was a kid, the 'females' of the genre were weak and pansys... Teela was constantly kidnapped or fainting... Darkseid wanted to Marry Wonder Woman... April o'neil was #1 hostage bait...

That was the media portrayal.

She-ra DID change a lot of that... making HER the hero...

But REALLY... it was still a fairly Non-violent battles. Robots get smashed... the girls all had 'spell blasts'...

Fact is, boys play 'violent.' Most 'boy toys' are combat based... and as I watch my nephews banging the toys against each othere with the swords and axes... I really don't WANT them to have the bad guys shooting or stabbing the girls with 3 inches of 'pretend steel'.

Violence against women is NOT cool... and I'm NOT a fan of the 'warrior women' being front and center in the battles. Even fully capable women more than powerful enough to defend themselves... STILL not cool.

Honestly, look at Ant-Man. Founding member of the Avengers... Genius extrodanaire... been around FOREVER...

#1 thing he's remembered for. Slapping his wife.

Who is in herself a SUPER-HERO, MORE than capable of handing Hank his butt if she desired... but he's been villainized for decades because of that issue.

Online 'adult collector's are a whole different matter. Let's get all the characters that people know and love out there... But retail 'boy's aisle' toys?

I'm actually ok with the 'Boy's club' mentality.

[Grayskullstwin]

fairness in factions please!!!

[Shadow-Ra]

As I get older... the LESS I want to see a lot of females in boys aisles.

When I was a kid, the 'females' of the genre were weak and pansys... Teela was constantly kidnapped or fainting... Darkseid wanted to Marry Wonder Woman... April o'neil was #1 hostage bait...

That was the media portrayal.

She-ra DID change a lot of that... making HER the hero...

But REALLY... it was still a fairly Non-violent battles. Robots get smashed... the girls all had 'spell blasts'...

Fact is, boys play 'violent.' Most 'boy toys' are combat based... and as I watch my nephews banging the toys against each othere with the swords and axes... I really don't WANT them to have the bad guys shooting or stabbing the girls with 3 inches of 'pretend steel'.

Violence against women is NOT cool... and I'm NOT a fan of the 'warrior women' being front and center in the battles. Even fully capable women more than powerful enough to defend themselves... STILL not cool.

Honestly, look at Ant-Man. Founding member of the Avengers... Genius extrodanaire... been around FOREVER...

#1 thing he's remembered for. Slapping his wife.

Who is in herself a SUPER-HERO, MORE than capable of handing Hank his butt if she desired... but he's been villainized for decades because of that issue.

Online 'adult collector's are a whole different matter. Let's get all the characters that people know and love out there... But retail 'boy's aisle' toys?

I'm actually ok with the 'Boy's club' mentality.

And He-Man was different how?