Is MATTEL watching the LINE? (Has it become too violent/too many deaths)

[H.A.L.9000]

It's okay. I'll start worrying when the kids start re-enacting these scenes in caves...

http://analogmedium.com/blog/2007/07...monsters-1.jpg

GREAT PIC...from a Great movie.!!!
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I DON"T KNOW WHERE I AMMMMMM!!!!

[jibernish]

I write for Marvel. I'm sure many posters here read Marvel. I think trying to bring their name up arguing that writers don't kill off characters is something most of us are going to shake our heads at, especially in this day and age where most books are killing off characters to drive sales up. Thor's died two or three times in the last half-decade alone.

Speaking of Marvel, I'm curious how many posters who are up in arms about the turns in this storyline were just as furious back in the 80s when Marvel's G.I.Joe comic was killing off characters left and right. Or Optimus (and numerous other characters) biting it in the animated Transformers movie.

Here's the thing about death in fiction: It's *supposed* to evoke strong negative reactions. If you don't get upset or sad that a character dies (at least a "good" character, not evil), then the creators failed in making that character strong enough to play their role. How many people read Lord of the Rings, got to the part where Boromir dies, threw the book down and yelled "Not in my canon!!!"?

Part of the problem with dealing with this in the MOTU world is that unlike Transformers or GI Joe or even Thundercats, MOTU has never - ever - before had the opportunity to have a fully-realized, ongoing storyline. From the mini-comics to Filmation to the original toy one-sentence bios, there has never been a greater all-encompasing timeline and sense of a continuously ongoing story to it. You could practically take the entire Filmation run, watch it backwards and it doesn't really change anything. Everything was one-and-done; there were rarely any consequences or overlapping plotlines. Nothing progressed. It was fun, but it was static. It was great...when I was 10 and didn't really grasp the concept of death, especially in a story that dealt with war, fighting and armies.

I should note that I'm not particularly a fan of how MAA goes out; I don't want this to sound like blind defense for Mattel. It could have been handled better if they wanted to go that route. But it's done, and I can't lose sleep over it.

When Optimus Prime died in the animated movie, I was devastated. But I didn't hate Hasbro, and I didn't think for one second that I owned the character or the Transformers storyline. I never thought, "They shouldn't have killed him." I thought, "Oh my god, he's dead!"

With MOTU, people do feel like they have ownership of the story however, and I think those feelings are partially justified. MOTU has gone away for long periods of time, and the fans have had to keep the characters alive in their own heads. MOTU has never had a central storyline either, so we have been practically encouraged to come up with our own cannons. I heard this argument in terms of Star Wars. In the long span of time between trilogies, people wanted more stories, more time with the characters, so they wrote fan fiction, played stories out with their own toys, and watched the old material over and over and over, thus cementing the storyline in their heads. The thing with Star Wars is that Lucas cares about story (whether you think he is good at story is another debate). He has taken great pains to keep up continuity.

Mattel doesn't care about story or continunity. I applaud TG for trying to weave it all together. I don't like a lot of what he's come up with, but I really have been aching for a proper story arc for the brand. ANd since Mattel did such a bang up job with MOTU's overall story, it's no wonder TG's bios look a bit messy at times.

I just watched The People versus George Lucas the other day and recommend it. I think it has a lot to say about how this new comic series will be received by us fans, and god-forbit a movie is ever made. This quarrelling over story isn't unique to MOTU.

[Eternian Poet]

When Optimus Prime died in the animated movie, I was devastated. But I didn't hate Hasbro, and I didn't think for one second that I owned the character or the Transformers storyline. I never thought, "They shouldn't have killed him." I thought, "Oh my god, he's dead!"

Fantasy/Reality

[MegaGearMax]

I hate major character deaths written in bios. For those who say it makes the story more mature, it adds stakes etc, it DOESN'T. the bios aren't a strong format to tell a story, maybe it introduces the idea of higher stakes and maturity, but the bios are constricted so much due to release schedules and space that the big story advancements end up being "huh?" moments.

it's truly a terrible way to try to tell a real story.

I agree that the bios aren't the strongest way to tell compelling stories where characters die, but what can Mattel do for regular entertainment? They don't have the resources for ongoing mini-comics.

[NorthCoast]

I write for Marvel.

Was it your idea to kill Peter Parker and replace him with junior Obama?

[Spacedust]

One thing springs readily to mind: It's an adult collectors line. Yes it can be a bit more varied and stronger than maybe the more child-orientated eras of the franchise. And even then, it's a couple of sentences describing the death of a character (though I'll readily admit Vykron's was much stronger than I had anticipated), it's hardly a graphic image of the death scene.

I don't want such ideas to be exploited just for the sake of it, but if it helps flesh out the MOTU Universe a bit more, I'm for it.

[Starshine]

When Optimus Prime died in the animated movie, I was devastated. But I didn't hate Hasbro, and I didn't think for one second that I owned the character or the Transformers storyline. I never thought, "They shouldn't have killed him." I thought, "Oh my god, he's dead!"

With MOTU, people do feel like they have ownership of the story however, and I think those feelings are partially justified. MOTU has gone away for long periods of time, and the fans have had to keep the characters alive in their own heads. MOTU has never had a central storyline either, so we have been practically encouraged to come up with our own cannons. I heard this argument in terms of Star Wars. In the long span of time between trilogies, people wanted more stories, more time with the characters, so they wrote fan fiction, played stories out with their own toys, and watched the old material over and over and over, thus cementing the storyline in their heads. The thing with Star Wars is that Lucas cares about story (whether you think he is good at story is another debate). He has taken great pains to keep up continuity.

Mattel doesn't care about story or continunity. I applaud TG for trying to weave it all together. I don't like a lot of what he's come up with, but I really have been aching for a proper story arc for the brand. ANd since Mattel did such a bang up job with MOTU's overall story, it's no wonder TG's bios look a bit messy at times.

I just watched The People versus George Lucas the other day and recommend it. I think it has a lot to say about how this new comic series will be received by us fans, and god-forbit a movie is ever made. This quarrelling over story isn't unique to MOTU.

Agreed. Very sensible.

Also love that Lucas docu. Its great viewing with some buddies/beers. That Jar Jar song sticks in my head, maybe for the abstract lyrics? HA! (RIP to that artist, btw, I read that he had passed on. ) Gotta say, though, when they are talking about their first times seeing SW at the theatres in the 70s, I get a little misty-eyed. Maybe its the music along with the memories of being there myself?

[Firefly]

When I think of characters from Transformers and G.I. Joe, my first thought isn't what was on their cardbacks. Its how they were in their past cartoon shows, movies, and comics. True, this line doesn't have any media to back it up, but a majority of the characters have a history that still tells the story for me. I view these bios kind of like I do Star Wars expanded universe books. Chewbacca got killed off in some expanded universe book, but that doesn't really mean anything to me. What one person or a few individuals choose to write up at Matty for this collectors line, just doesn't mean much to me in the big scheme of things that is Masters of the Universe. Whenever the feature film gets made, that will tell its own story. Whenever a new cartoon gets made again, that will also tell its own story. Both will supercede in the public's eye anything that was written on a cardback. The cardbacks just don't really concern me.

[BadVermin]

My cardbacks go in the trash, I've only read a few. To me, this line has always been about creating your own stories.

[Nemisythe]

Two deaths should not necessarily be considered world wide massacre.... (since we haven't read Gwildor's yet )

Violent? From 1 bio alone and there's a magnitude of violence? Not really! I mean it was slightly DETAILED but not GRAPHIC (words are key).

I mean this is a collector line, and although it's not a defense to turn it up (since it really hasn't been practiced a lot) but it shouldn't be rejected either. It's helping A STORY move along it's path, although putting it in a BIO is grounds for debate because I think what we really need to decide (although Matty has the final say) is what would be considered proper BIOS for a line that has no other output of media to carry out this particular canon.

[Tribal Spaceman]

it's an adult colletors line.

So why do all the pointy parts get rounded down for the kiddywinkles?

[Jinxieman]

I hate major character deaths written in bios. For those who say it makes the story more mature, it adds stakes etc, it DOESN'T. the bios aren't a strong format to tell a story, maybe it introduces the idea of higher stakes and maturity, but the bios are constricted so much due to release schedules and space that the big story advancements end up being "huh?" moments.

it's truly a terrible way to try to tell a real story.

Does putting the word "doesn't" in capitals make your OPINION more valid? I'm asking because I do not agree with you...so I'm trying to figure out which opinion is more valid...

[Wrytor]

I think some of the surprise is due to how protective Mattel was on the 1987 movie, not allowing any major character to die or He-man to kill anybody - such that the filmmakers had to invent robot troopers and new characters like Saurod.

I was thoroughly shocked in MYP when Snake Face turned evil warriors to stone and shattered them...then none-too-surprised when they were too-easily reconstituted with magic.

[denmeg]

I'm guessing most of the collectors are in their 30s to 40s that grew up with the original he man. So I'm going to say the card backs don't mean a hell of a lot. It's just how mattel decided to go with the story on that character.
Killing some characters off on a card back means squat. I would rather see a more adult oriented cartoon of he man to air someday and yes some main characters need to die to keep the story interesting. Personally I'm all for killing Rio blast, extendar and others that never made it to the already aired cartoons.

[nato]

As many have stated, this is an adult collector's line. There are heroes and villains and lots of different weapons. Why should it not be violent? If I want sappy, everybody play nice, sort of thing, then I'll just watch Full House on ABC Family channel.

[DC_WARLORD]

So why do all the pointy parts get rounded down for the kiddywinkles?

[Moominsthenmotu]

"Death isn't character development - it is character annihilation, unless you're writing for Hamlet's father or Obi Wan Kenobi" Grant Morrison, comics writer


The "Deaths" way-out for characters has never been a part of MOTU in any way at all canonically or in any of the media representations. Body and personality change have always been the way MOTU handled death.


"... and then they all died" or "mortally wounded, the great hero fell/; the great villain realized his fate" are always cop-outs in creative writing and, quite rightly, are penalised in every writing outlet from school and college through university and publishers' agencies for being, well, the death of ideas and the revelation of a dearth of ideas. This is an overspill from the DC comics obsession of whomsoever it is writing the bios. 'the Death of Robin' was shockingly revelatory given the up-until-then boy scout tone of Batman and pantomime-baddy nature of the Joker. A Death at the start of a sequence, as something that "fires" the hero of a piece of writing is always the way to go, that's why I accept parental death as the impetus for Batman and why the "was she killed or kidnapped" fate of baby Adora/She-Ra is a good way a new MOTU movie could explain Randor and Marlena's inertia/ cowardice or spoiled persona of Adam and the need for personality/body transformation. Nowadays every comic or big movie drops the hero's pal from a skyscraper to motivate the hero or kills the villain for the audience cheer. It ain't big or clever - and MOTU doesn't really "do" death... I don't know how to put that in a less stupid sounding way, sorry!

SMAA's fate could have been one of de-programming or a spell casting his possession out or him being lured to the slime-pit in a near homeopathic solution. The minicomics had a slight moral tone - the moral fable aspect of the FILMATION series being loud as thunder - and it is a missed opportunity not to have SMAA's deprogramming or de-toxification from being his Snake-men persona as an allegory for the effectiveness of intervention in an addict's life or the need for others to band together to rescue their friend/relative.
When this could have been the story, showing a scenario where maybe Clamp Champ's intense persuasion or Man-E-Faces' role playing or Orko's magic, He-Man's strategy and Teela's love could have played a part you realise what lazy writing it is to have hiim just be killed and how this could have fed back into the traits of the heroic warriors that we love next to their muscles and weaponry. There was play to be had with this story!

There are times when brain outmatches braun in the search for a solution to something and the bios have missed that where every medium before it - from minicomics, through FILMATION, MYP and MVC - would have handled it far better.

[Wulff]

The figure bios don't affect any other continuity or media other than the Classics toys, so it doesn't really matter to the property overall.

Plus kids can't buy these so, no issue there.

[hordeall]

I dont think many young kids can afford or do buy $30 a month action figures so it dosn't matter

[Moominsthenmotu]

I think that when an attempt was made by MVC and MYP to consolidate the canon then it matters that whichever agency producs the bios rides roughshod over this work, whether adults or kids are buying them. the adults buying them are the kids that bought them first time around.

[Keldor/Skeletor73]

Well, i am not upset if the occasional palace guard or unnamed skeleton warrior bites the dust, but hey, named characters?
C'mon, never heard about script immunity? I am not a bio hater (i rather enjoy some if not most of them), but killing off main characters should be off limits...also who's gonna want the figure of a "dead" character??????

[Madison Carter]

C'mon, never heard about script immunity?

Can't say I have, because there's no such thing.

[Moominsthenmotu]

Well, i am not upset if the occasional palace guard or unnamed skeleton warrior bites the dust, but hey, named characters?
C'mon, never heard about script immunity? I am not a bio hater (i rather enjoy some if not most of them), but killing off main characters should be off limits...also who's gonna want the figure of a "dead" character??????

Well, this is the rub. Death is a really basic way to add imagined drama to a story or script. Don't get me wrong, it can be done very well - but it is a cheap way of trying to have a character or story arc be taken seriously by a readership/audience or, in our case collectors,that may have had a lacklustre response initially, when character change, volte-face or metamorphosis is a Hell of a lot more interesting. I'm paying upwards of twenty dollars for the figures in packages while I can pick up better writing in a Henry James book or a Gill Scott Heron album for far less - so I do expect a little thought into a major part of that package.
Television is to blame for us thinking death adds depth or tragedy or glory or apotheosis to a character or person. My grandpaw thought Bob Hope was a horrible human being and when Bob Hope died wondered at the unfettered praise he was receiving. Okay, bad example - eulogise all you want when someone dies, but that is the point. It is cheap eliciting of emotional investment in reality or fiction. Few central characters die in dread-laden films and books like 'Goodfellas' or 'Of Mice and Men' but when they occur there is such power as to impact the reader/viewer.
When I read death as written in the MOTUC bios I see an opportunity entirely lost - what I think the writer should have done when I see it is maybe have in place of it a new twist or a new plot generation.
Say for example I invented a completely ludicrous character for MOTU called 'Balloony the Marshmallow' a half-marshmallow balloon friend of Orko's. The figure is a pink balloon with a monkey like face and two arms holding pom-poms. There is a total fan backlash so I write this bio:

"Balloony the Marshmallow

Real name: Fluffar Samorian

Balloony was a member of the Candyar race from Trolla who were wiped out by Hector Kur when he undertook the Horde trials. Orko, hearing of the massacre, created a portal to rescue his friend, he nicknamed "Balloony", to escape.
For a while Balloony was an entertaining addition to the court of Eternos and helped create magnificent desserts for the great banquets. However during one festival when wild gryphons had breached the outer walls carrying arachnoid warriors under the command of Webstor, Balloony laid a trail of sweetmeats to lure the rampaging beasts and their riders away from the courtiers and towards his kitchen. Balloony swallowed a crystallite bomb from Man At Arms' munitions store and then had himself eaten by the lead gryphon. Balloony exploded within the belly of the creature taking the other gryphons and invaders with them. A statue to Balloony remains in the palace gardens to this day, commemorating the event."

What I've done is take a ludicrous character and attempted to plant a grain of credibility by adding death into the mix. No matter that the character nor the story makes little sense. It was a cheap way for me to win some respect for a trashy concept.

[fball13z]

Dont we already have topics about death counts and all that blah blah stuff?

Really people its simple, if you dont like a bio here or there or even if you hate them all, thats great, make your own cannon. I havent loved or even liked all the bios, but I read them and then move on to the kick butt figure on the card and never look back.

[Barbecue17]

Dont we already have topics about death counts and all that blah blah stuff?

Really people its simple, if you dont like a bio here or there or even if you hate them all, thats great, make your own cannon. I havent loved or even liked all the bios, but I read them and then move on to the kick butt figure on the card and never look back.

I don't possess enough knowledge of gun smithery to make my own cannon.

I think this topic has become more about the role violence and death can and should (or should not) play in the MOTUC story versus just being about death counts. I agree with many of the sentiments that death can be a lazy plot device, but in all honesty anything can be a lazy plot device if it doesn't fit in with the flow of the story or the reality established in the fictional world. It reminds me of what Val said on one of the RGDs that there are no bad story ideas, just bad ways of executing those stories (that was a total paraphrase: hope I got it right).

Regarding the issue of inserting death into a fantasy universe, I believe the best thing I have ever read about the subject comes from the D&D Dungeon Masters Guide 3.5. There is an article that talks about the careful balance for the DM in allowing player characters to be killed. If player characters are never killed, nothing is ever truly at stake. If we believe that everytime the characters enter into battle we will escape without bodily harm, there's no sense of excitement or danger. If characters are being killed off left and right, however, the effect lessens and the players are less likely to build attachments to their characters. The same holds true for the nonplayer characters (NPCs). If the NPCs are simple and expendable, their is no reason for the player to invest in them. If the NPCs are always stagnant and safe, they become not worth interacting with.

I know there is plenty of debate as to the merits of telling a story in snippets through the bios (I kind of like the method, if not always the execution) but I try to think: If this story had been told in a linear manner which consisted of multiple movies/ books/ years of a comic run/ etc. and these plot points occurred alongside good characterization and character interaction, which we obviously cannot get from the bios, would I be happy with the story? I actually think that placed in that context, the plot points might be quite good.