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Thread: Why do writers want Man At Arms to be evil?

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  1. #1
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Why do writers want Man At Arms to be evil?

    Think about it,

    Jack Olesker said if they went back to Eternia, Man At Arms will have taken over.

    Emiliano Santalucia inhis fancomic homecoming also made Man at Arms a villain after he-man returned from space(it's possible he took his cue from Jack before we new about it)

    Val Staples and Emiliano Santalucia made him a villain in the MVC volume 2 comics series (albeit it was an alternate universe MAA)

    Dean Stefan/Ian Richter were planning on making him a villain in the MYP series

    Scot Neitlich has made him a villain that gets killed in MOTUC (he took it from MYP but clearly it's an idea that he liked)

    What is it about MAA that all these folks want him to do a heel run?

    For me he was always the most loyal guy, sure it is a trope to have that insanely loyal character turn, but its so common that I think it would be better to be more of a nobody. Mekanek, Buzz Off, Sy-Klone, even Gwildor or Orko.

    EDIT Emiliano had MAA killed before he-man's return, he didn't turn evil, I think I confused Teela 'hooking up' with King Hiss with turning MAA.
    Last edited by krosfyah; May 16, 2012 at 11:26am.
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  2. #2
    Awesome Warrior Alexx's Avatar
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    Personally I don't see it as evil (save for the Snake Man thing). I think it's more of a way (in his mind) to bring order in the various incarnations that you mentioned. Either he did it as a way bring an end to the war and KEEP it finished by taking over and making all sorts of laws, or he took over Skeletor's position to sort of bring order to the Dark Hemisphere. Either way it's more of a fall to the wayside rather than "Oh he's evil now! Ooooo!" It's a way of making things a little more grey rather than black or white.
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  3. #3
    Heroic Warrior
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    Can't he-man just stick to the basics and have fun adventures? This isn't Shakespeare
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    Heroic Warrior Bulkhide's Avatar
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    I think it's because he's one of the most important, most powerful, and most influential characters within the whole mythos.

    Makes him a choice for any story that would be of shock value and/or significance.
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  5. #5
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    It's the classic 'student outgrowing his mentor' schtic. Man at arms was more of a 'father figure' then randor ever was, When he goes evil, then He-man has to be his OWN Mentor.

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  7. #7
    Human... Robot... Maniac Spacedust's Avatar
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    I think it's kinda similar to Mr. Spock (of 'Star Trek'... actually surely I don't need to add that?! )
    We've seen him in as Mirror Spock and a few other darker variants. Maybe it's like the big powerful number two - which in many ways, especially previously, more simple incarnations of the franchise, Man-At-Arms is to He-Man, having the chance to be the big bold leaders Achilles' heel ... would He-Man be able to kill his mentor / best friend in order to save Eternia??

    Quote Originally Posted by cderby79 View Post
    Can't he-man just stick to the basics and have fun adventures? This isn't Shakespeare
    In many ways, I actually do agree with this sentiment.
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  8. #8
    Evil Master of Meejitz super-munkyboy's Avatar
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    He "improves" his comrades by experimenting on them.

    Did Meckaneck really need a really long neck? Did 200x Fisto need a giant metal fist?

    Plus he has a moustache, he can twirl it.
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    Heroic Warrior He-Man123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by super-munkyboy View Post
    Plus he has a moustache, he can twirl it.
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  10. #10
    Heroic Warrior bamf1980's Avatar
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    MAA was never a very effective hero. He always trips up, gets captured, provides comic relief for Orko. As much as we all love him, he was incredibly flawed. Maybe the appeal is in taking that lame duck heroic persona and turning it completely around. How effective and horrifying is he as a villain?

    My guess is not very, as he gets killed pretty quickly.
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    Because people who write comics & cartoons rarely know how to create good stories.
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    Double Trouble is MINE!! Shadow-Ra's Avatar
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    It appeals more if it's a character who 'should' be good. It'd be same old, same old if the story was about someone who was already evil.
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  13. #13
    Evil Master of Meejitz super-munkyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eternian Poet View Post
    Because people who write comics & cartoons rarely know how to create good stories.
    Yes please tell that to Neil Gaimen, Greg Wiseman, Bill Willingham, Mike Carey... wait a minute they're amazing writers...
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  14. #14
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Did you ever watch Beast Wars or Beast Machines? Did you see how awesome Rhinox became when he was evil? He went from a lame boring character to a badass with personality. That is why MAA needs to be evil!!!
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  15. #15
    Heroic Warrior Teacher of Madness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cderby79 View Post
    Can't he-man just stick to the basics and have fun adventures? This isn't Shakespeare
    As much as I appreciate that 200X and the new bios have created a sort of living story-filled world, I really do agree with this sentiment. When I think about my figures this is certainly how I imagine them, much like I did when I was 5.

  16. #16
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    The idea behind it, is not bad...It gives the Snakemen faction a technical twist, would like to see some things SMAA creates for King Hiss, like Blast Attack...

  17. #17
    LIKE A HERMIT! mightybuck's Avatar
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    if any of the good guys were to become a villain, MAA is the best candidate. he's one of eternia's most capable soldiers, a tactician, and an inventor. he not only has intimate knowledge of the royal palace's inner workings, but also that of castle grayskull. and of course he's one of the few people that knows who he-man really is. worst of all, he's a guy that everyone likes. none of the heroic warriors would want to fight him, because he's always been friends with everyone and the heroes will want to save him.

    since MAA is central to the heroes and so well-liked, turning him into a villain is tough. his characterization all these years has cemented his good natured personality. he isn't corrupt. you're pretty much forced to make him a slave to some kind of mind control. it's been done before of course, but it does have it's advantages. you can have heroes so shaken up that they can't deal with the situation. or you can have some whose determination is strengthened by this tragedy and work even harder towards realizing their goals. whatever way the individual characters react, they are changing and adapting to the situation and that's what is most important. seeing the characters grow throughout the story.

  18. #18
    The Man Called 'V' Shecky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker79 View Post
    The idea behind it, is not bad...It gives the Snakemen faction a technical twist, would like to see some things SMAA creates for King Hiss, like Blast Attack...
    You know, it should have been fairly obvious to me given Snake MAA's bio, but that would certainly be an interesting little twist if he "created" Blast-Attak.

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  19. #19
    Let's get Crita in MOTUC! The All American's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cderby79 View Post
    Can't he-man just stick to the basics and have fun adventures? This isn't Shakespeare
    This is my favorite post, ever.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cderby79 View Post
    Can't he-man just stick to the basics and have fun adventures? This isn't Shakespeare
    I agree with you that it isn't Shakespeare, but remember that reality is that MOTU was aimed at children. When one is writing for children there is an inherent responsibility that comes with writing for young and impressionable minds. I'm certainly not saying everything needs to be a lesson or educational nor that we should preach to children or forget the importance of "fun adventures". But a young audience does take thoughts and impressions and concepts from television series. That is even more true today than it was back in the 80s and 90s. We have them for a precious half-hour and in that half hour I've always tried to inject an added value, beyond entertainment, into my work.

    most of those I've known who write for children's television also try to make it more than "just a cartoon" and "fun adventures" (not that there's anything wrong with fun adventures). In addition to being entertaining we try to put a few slices of pro-social behavior and life lessons into that which we write. We don't always succeed -- and I get that at times it can come off as a bit heavy-handed. But most writers for children's entertainment that I have worked with take that responsibility seriously and try to do the best for their young audience.

    EDIT: Kro, it just seemed to me that MAA was the lgoical one to ascend to the throne. He had the strength, the conviction of spirit and the driving love for Eternia. That he was well-intended and so close to He-man, imo, makes his misstep all the more tragic...yet all the more redeeming when he sees the light.

    Eternian Poet: Well said. Exploring those shades of grey was precisely where I'd hoped to go with the MAA concept.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; May 16, 2012 at 11:01pm.

  21. #21
    Pretty cool, huh? a-star's Avatar
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    Fidelity isn't cool anymore. Personal ambition is easier to identify with these days. And its easy drama as he knows the secret so there could be lots of tension.

    Personally I think he would be the least likely to turn due to having so much at stake. Teela, Sorceress, responsibility, ties to Randor, ect. I like the loyal friend character because it seems to be so rare in real life.
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  22. #22
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Why do writers want Man At Arms to be evil?
    Because evil is cool!

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  23. #23
    Heroic Warrior H.A.L.9000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedict Judas Hel View Post
    agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  24. #24
    Evil Titan of Industry melmoth666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Think about it,

    Jack Olesker said if they went back to Eternia, Man At Arms will have taken over.

    Emiliano Santalucia inhis fancomic homecoming also made Man at Arms a villain after he-man returned from space(it's possible he took his cue from Jack before we new about it)

    Val Staples and Emiliano Santalucia made him a villain in the MVC volume 2 comics series (albeit it was an alternate universe MAA)

    Dean Stefan/Ian Richter were planning on making him a villain in the MYP series

    Scot Neitlich has made him a villain that gets killed in MOTUC (he took it from MYP but clearly it's an idea that he liked)

    What is it about MAA that all these folks want him to do a heel run?

    For me he was always the most loyal guy, sure it is a trope to have that insanely loyal character turn, but its so common that I think it would be better to be more of a nobody. Mekanek, Buzz Off, Sy-Klone, even Gwildor or Orko.
    Why did they write Darth Vader good?

    You need to keep deepening the threat. How many times do you want He-Man to whup up on Skeletor and Hordak?

    There are only so many ancient threats like King Hsss that pop up. So go with thought that the most dangerous foe is a traitor.

    This is not a new idea...Greek tragedies, icelandic folk tales, and the bible ARE full of stories with traitors being the major enemy. ALSO it is not uncommon to have main characters die in these works either. I really do not see an issue here.
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  25. #25
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melmoth666 View Post
    This is not a new idea...Greek tragedies, icelandic folk tales, and the bible ARE full of stories with traitors being the major enemy. ALSO it is not uncommon to have main characters die in these works either. I really do not see an issue here.
    Agreed, especially when you stop to think about how much mythology is used for the concepts and such in the entire universe.
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