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Thread: Why do writers want Man At Arms to be evil?

  1. #1
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Why do writers want Man At Arms to be evil?

    Think about it,

    Jack Olesker said if they went back to Eternia, Man At Arms will have taken over.

    Emiliano Santalucia inhis fancomic homecoming also made Man at Arms a villain after he-man returned from space(it's possible he took his cue from Jack before we new about it)

    Val Staples and Emiliano Santalucia made him a villain in the MVC volume 2 comics series (albeit it was an alternate universe MAA)

    Dean Stefan/Ian Richter were planning on making him a villain in the MYP series

    Scot Neitlich has made him a villain that gets killed in MOTUC (he took it from MYP but clearly it's an idea that he liked)

    What is it about MAA that all these folks want him to do a heel run?

    For me he was always the most loyal guy, sure it is a trope to have that insanely loyal character turn, but its so common that I think it would be better to be more of a nobody. Mekanek, Buzz Off, Sy-Klone, even Gwildor or Orko.

    EDIT Emiliano had MAA killed before he-man's return, he didn't turn evil, I think I confused Teela 'hooking up' with King Hiss with turning MAA.
    Last edited by krosfyah; May 16, 2012 at 11:26am.
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  2. #2
    Awesome Warrior Alexx's Avatar
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    Personally I don't see it as evil (save for the Snake Man thing). I think it's more of a way (in his mind) to bring order in the various incarnations that you mentioned. Either he did it as a way bring an end to the war and KEEP it finished by taking over and making all sorts of laws, or he took over Skeletor's position to sort of bring order to the Dark Hemisphere. Either way it's more of a fall to the wayside rather than "Oh he's evil now! Ooooo!" It's a way of making things a little more grey rather than black or white.
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  3. #3
    Heroic Warrior
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    Can't he-man just stick to the basics and have fun adventures? This isn't Shakespeare
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    Heroic Warrior Bulkhide's Avatar
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    I think it's because he's one of the most important, most powerful, and most influential characters within the whole mythos.

    Makes him a choice for any story that would be of shock value and/or significance.
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  5. #5
    Pretty cool, huh? a-star's Avatar
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    Fidelity isn't cool anymore. Personal ambition is easier to identify with these days. And its easy drama as he knows the secret so there could be lots of tension.

    Personally I think he would be the least likely to turn due to having so much at stake. Teela, Sorceress, responsibility, ties to Randor, ect. I like the loyal friend character because it seems to be so rare in real life.
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  6. #6
    Heroic Warrior
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    It's the classic 'student outgrowing his mentor' schtic. Man at arms was more of a 'father figure' then randor ever was, When he goes evil, then He-man has to be his OWN Mentor.

  7. #7
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    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Why do writers want Man At Arms to be evil?
    Because evil is cool!

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  9. #9
    Human... Robot... Maniac Spacedust's Avatar
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    I think it's kinda similar to Mr. Spock (of 'Star Trek'... actually surely I don't need to add that?! )
    We've seen him in as Mirror Spock and a few other darker variants. Maybe it's like the big powerful number two - which in many ways, especially previously, more simple incarnations of the franchise, Man-At-Arms is to He-Man, having the chance to be the big bold leaders Achilles' heel ... would He-Man be able to kill his mentor / best friend in order to save Eternia??

    Quote Originally Posted by cderby79 View Post
    Can't he-man just stick to the basics and have fun adventures? This isn't Shakespeare
    In many ways, I actually do agree with this sentiment.
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  10. #10
    Evil Master of Meejitz super-munkyboy's Avatar
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    He "improves" his comrades by experimenting on them.

    Did Meckaneck really need a really long neck? Did 200x Fisto need a giant metal fist?

    Plus he has a moustache, he can twirl it.
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    Heroic Warrior Eternian Poet's Avatar
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    Because people who write comics & cartoons rarely know how to create good stories.
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    Double Trouble is MINE!! Shadow-Ra's Avatar
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    It appeals more if it's a character who 'should' be good. It'd be same old, same old if the story was about someone who was already evil.
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    Heroic Warrior H.A.L.9000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedict Judas Hel View Post
    agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  14. #14
    Evil Master of Meejitz super-munkyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eternian Poet View Post
    Because people who write comics & cartoons rarely know how to create good stories.
    Yes please tell that to Neil Gaimen, Greg Wiseman, Bill Willingham, Mike Carey... wait a minute they're amazing writers...
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    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Did you ever watch Beast Wars or Beast Machines? Did you see how awesome Rhinox became when he was evil? He went from a lame boring character to a badass with personality. That is why MAA needs to be evil!!!
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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  16. #16
    Evil Titan of Industry melmoth666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Think about it,

    Jack Olesker said if they went back to Eternia, Man At Arms will have taken over.

    Emiliano Santalucia inhis fancomic homecoming also made Man at Arms a villain after he-man returned from space(it's possible he took his cue from Jack before we new about it)

    Val Staples and Emiliano Santalucia made him a villain in the MVC volume 2 comics series (albeit it was an alternate universe MAA)

    Dean Stefan/Ian Richter were planning on making him a villain in the MYP series

    Scot Neitlich has made him a villain that gets killed in MOTUC (he took it from MYP but clearly it's an idea that he liked)

    What is it about MAA that all these folks want him to do a heel run?

    For me he was always the most loyal guy, sure it is a trope to have that insanely loyal character turn, but its so common that I think it would be better to be more of a nobody. Mekanek, Buzz Off, Sy-Klone, even Gwildor or Orko.
    Why did they write Darth Vader good?

    You need to keep deepening the threat. How many times do you want He-Man to whup up on Skeletor and Hordak?

    There are only so many ancient threats like King Hsss that pop up. So go with thought that the most dangerous foe is a traitor.

    This is not a new idea...Greek tragedies, icelandic folk tales, and the bible ARE full of stories with traitors being the major enemy. ALSO it is not uncommon to have main characters die in these works either. I really do not see an issue here.
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  17. #17
    Heroic Warrior Nemisythe's Avatar
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    I think although in some cases it may seem redundant or badly done the idea that a true 'blue' character to turn or go dark; but it can and does help create a new layer of story as well add a new level of emotion to it as well. Now we can safely assume this isn't Duncan's choice which brings the heartache higher; but it also shows you the other side of a character unleashed and uninhibited, creating a new threat level in some cases bigger than our expected villains create. I think it stabs at all characters emotionally and I think this is why (when done) it's always a very near and dear character. Just think of all the psychological damage it does to every one individually... And it's a major game changer!
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  18. #18
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melmoth666 View Post
    This is not a new idea...Greek tragedies, icelandic folk tales, and the bible ARE full of stories with traitors being the major enemy. ALSO it is not uncommon to have main characters die in these works either. I really do not see an issue here.
    Agreed, especially when you stop to think about how much mythology is used for the concepts and such in the entire universe.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

    Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

  19. #19
    Heroic Warrior
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    It also seems to be the idea in my opinion of how important it is that a character as incorruptible as MAA COULD be corrupted and that it further wasn't even his choice! You have the drama of him being corrupted AND him being violated of his own free will at the same time.

  20. #20
    Heroic Warrior He-Man123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by super-munkyboy View Post
    Plus he has a moustache, he can twirl it.
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  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior bamf1980's Avatar
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    MAA was never a very effective hero. He always trips up, gets captured, provides comic relief for Orko. As much as we all love him, he was incredibly flawed. Maybe the appeal is in taking that lame duck heroic persona and turning it completely around. How effective and horrifying is he as a villain?

    My guess is not very, as he gets killed pretty quickly.

  22. #22
    Heroic Warrior VictoryLiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    Did you ever watch Beast Wars or Beast Machines? Did you see how awesome Rhinox became when he was evil? He went from a lame boring character to a badass with personality. That is why MAA needs to be evil!!!
    I saw that as a total lack of understanding of his character on the part of the writers. He was a pretty awesome character before. His switch to bad guy was just for shock value and made no sense to me. It's the same with MAA. It's lame, trite, and annoying.

  23. #23
    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VictoryLiger View Post
    I saw that as a total lack of understanding of his character on the part of the writers. He was a pretty awesome character before. His switch to bad guy was just for shock value and made no sense to me. It's the same with MAA. It's lame, trite, and annoying.
    Whoa, what do you mean it made no sense? Megatron used a device to turn him evil and then he tried to take out all of the Predacons just to replace Megatron as their leader. It makes sense become it drove him to a genius insane level. It then made sense when it happened again in Beast Machines because of Megatron's programming. Watch the Beast Wars episode Dark Designs and then the Beast Machines first season finale three parter and tell me they do not work.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

    Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

  24. #24
    Kickin' It Old Skool! Alex The Kid's Avatar
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    Simple. Drama = Interest (especially if its the last person you'd imagine)

    Never fear! With so many time travellers in the MOTUC canon, surely King He-man would want to find a way to stop his friend and mentor MAA from turning... right?

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  25. #25
    Heroic Warrior Thrawn29's Avatar
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    I have never understood the obsession with making MAA a bad guy either.

    I think it shows a lack of talent, imagination, and is basically done for shock value.

    "Oh my gosh! One of the most important and beloved characters is now a bad guy! Isn't it an emotional punch to the gut! Oh noes! The tragedy of it all!"

    Lame.

    The only saving grace with Snake MAA is that it's against his will at least.

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