Paul Dini Filmation Writer says Filmation came up with MOTU Mythos, not Mattel...

[xBBestx]

Sorry if this is old news, Kevin Smith interviews Paul Dini, writer with Filmation who dismisses the MOTU creation arguments in the trailer of Toy Masters, claiming Filmation came up with more of the mythos than Mattel. Starts about 35 mins in. Some intersting info...

Used to have the link in here but apparently it had some bad words in it so it was deleted and I have been warned. If any grown ups want to search it out it's called SMODcast Episode 211.

[the_ultimate_evil]

i'd believe it. as much as the mini comic fans may hate to admit the toon really did more to flesh out the world of the characters than the toys ever did

[shadowfall1976]

Just like the G1 Transformers cartoon came up with the storyline that most kids grew up knowing, it wasn't the comics that had a movie, it was the G1 cartoon. The cartoon in the 80's was meant to bring the toys to life and toss them at kids, well more than comics would have done alone, TV was a bigger medium than comic books. And the Mini Comics that came before Filmation were scattered and not very unified.

As I said, like it or not, Filmation is what most MOTU fans know, and that is the true MOTU story to many, there was no Goddess, that was Teela, then not Teela, then she was green, then Teela was the Sorceress, and not the Goddess. I prefer the Filmation lore to anything else, besides the 200X was based on Filmation. Granted I know there are some holes in the FIlmation story, like about the sword that merged with the Power Sword, and never mentioned again....but even the best movies have some holes, that's what happens when something isn't real, and is scripted.

[chuc98]

Well yeah the FilmaTION bible has a lot of the mythos including Infinitia and the origins of Marlena, Evil Lyn and Beast Man.

[xBBestx]

It's just funny to hear Paul Dini mention how clueless Mattel was... they would just bring them toys with no background, not even knowing if they were good guys or bad guys or anything about them... it was left to Filmation to figure it out. The story behind the O on Orko, or Zero rather haha. I found this pretty interesting. The Toy Masters guys should definitely try to get an interview with him for the doc as well.

[Dr Kain]

To be honest, Transformers does not work as a comic book. GI JOe does, but TF does not. You lose something magical about transforming robots when it is done in pictures.

[Grimbot]

Just like the G1 Transformers cartoon came up with the storyline that most kids grew up knowing, it wasn't the comics that had a movie, it was the G1 cartoon. The cartoon in the 80's was meant to bring the toys to life and toss them at kids, well more than comics would have done alone, TV was a bigger medium than comic books. And the Mini Comics that came before Filmation were scattered and not very unified.

Gotta correct you on that: Marvel comics (or more precisely: Jim Shooter) came up with the storyline for the G1 Transformers which was used for both comics (albeit different, it and the cartoon were sourced from Jim's pitch) and the cartoon (remember than the cartoon was made by Marvel productions in association with Sunbow which had very little to do with the story).

[VaultsofGrayskull]

i'd believe it. as much as the mini comic fans may hate to admit the toon really did more to flesh out the world of the characters than the toys ever did

That's not in dispute. There were only eleven minicomics in the pre-Filmation series. It's simply that the limited number of stories had different themes which minicomic fans prefer.

[MegaGearMax]

i'd believe it. as much as the mini comic fans may hate to admit the toon really did more to flesh out the world of the characters than the toys ever did

I don't think anyone is saying that Filmation had more development than the mini-comics did. 131 episodes of half hour cartoon explores far more than a dozen mini-comics. Not to mention one mythos stopped, while the other mythos lasted until the end of the toyline. The mini-comics didn't have the time to develop the concepts that they introduced.

Don Glut probably wasn't at those meetings with Filmation people. This might be another case where the Mattel departments didn't talk to each other, as Stratos had an allegiance way back in 82'.

[urbanmyth]

If you listen to the interview, he's not real specific as to what parts Filmation developed. He says when Mattel first came to Filmation, Mattel didn't know "who" the Masters of the Universe were (He-Man's team, Skeletor's team, both, etc) and didn't have Stratos or Zodac identified as good guys or bad guys. Dini doesn't expressly say that Filmation made these two good, it could be assumed that Mattel went back and further identified them as good before Filmation got too deep in planning. He says Filmation came up with Orko (which we knew) and came up with Randor and Marlena (and while that could be debated based on the DC Comics earlier appearance, the Randor and Marlena we know including 200X all come from the Filmation look and story so Filmation made them either way).

There wasn't a lot of He-Man talk but it was a great interview all around. Thanks for pointing this out. (Kevin's intro was crazy long and really annoying until Paul was finally introduced)

[shadowfall1976]

Gotta correct you on that: Marvel comics (or more precisely: Jim Shooter) came up with the storyline for the G1 Transformers which was used for both comics (albeit different, it and the cartoon were sourced from Jim's pitch) and the cartoon (remember than the cartoon was made by Marvel productions in association with Sunbow which had very little to do with the story).

I said the G1 cartoon came up with (or should I rephrase, contained...) the storyline most kids grew up knowing....being the TV Transformers, not the comic (after all they are worlds apart in violence and storyline), regardless if they were sourced from the same idea (which I did know that)....Just like Filmation, the G1 cartoon is what ended up bringing in more kids, TV is a much broader media than Comics, although Filmation had more to do with shaping the MOTU universe.

[Neil]

I said the G1 cartoon came up with (or should I rephrase, contained...) the storyline most kids grew up knowing....being the TV Transformers, not the comic (after all they are worlds apart in violence and storyline), regardless if they were sourced from the same idea (which I did know that)....Just like Filmation, the G1 cartoon is what ended up bringing in more kids, TV is a much broader media than Comics, although Filmation had more to do with shaping the MOTU universe.

In the UK, only the first few episodes of the G1 cartoon series (up to Plague of the Insecticons) was ever broadcast on TV - and those episodes were sliced into 4 minute chunks and shown daily on breakfast television, and then ONLY in the school holidays. If you wanted to see any more Transformers cartoons you had to buy the videos, and this being 1985 videos were pretty thin on the ground and very expensive.

So what you say might be true in the USA, but for us UK fans the comic always came first.

He-Man was completely different, of course. He was on at 4:20pm on a Monday afternoon every week. And I don't doubt that it was the cartoon more than any Masters comics (mini or otherwise) had a greater impact in driving new fans into the franchise. Of course, I was collecting He-Man toys before the Filmation cartoon debuted, so the mini-comics are always going to be special for me.

[13977]

Am I thinking of the wrong person or didn't Paul Dini used to refuse to talk about anything MOTU and Filmation?

[urbanmyth]

Am I thinking of the wrong person or didn't Paul Dini used to refuse to talk about anything MOTU and Filmation?

I think that might be Bruce Timm, the other guy from Batman: The Animated Series. . . but I always get these two mixed up

[xBBestx]

There wasn't a lot of He-Man talk but it was a great interview all around. Thanks for pointing this out. (Kevin's intro was crazy long and really annoying until Paul was finally introduced)

You're welcome! Sorry I didn't point out how annoying the intro was! Bothered me as well haha! You can also hear him lighting up his bong or bowl or whatever throughout the interview, I think he must have been extremely high during the intro part which may have been recorded at a different time, and it was kinda obnoxious, but once it gets down to the interview it is pretty interesting. The stuff about the Batman animated series is great as well, sometimes I forget how good that show was.

Not sure how this turned into a thread about the origins of Transformers haha.

[GozzoMan]

Kevin Smith & Paul Dini, pure awesomeness! Thanks for the link, xBBestx!

[Night Stalker]

You're welcome! Sorry I didn't point out how annoying the intro was!

This is why I can't watch Comic Book Guys on AMC. Or watch any Kevin Smith movies. Or read any of his comics.

Paul Dini is a great writer and certainly did a lot to flesh out the MOTU mythos. But I get the feeling he's let thirty years of bitterness cloud his memories a bit. My reading of the interview went like this:

KS: So, Mattel basically threw toys at you and said "create this universe".
PD: Yeah, they had the name "Eternia" and we (the writers) created everything else. Everything that you love about MOTU came from me and everything you hate resulted from Mattel's vagueness concerning the property.

Don't get me wrong, Dini did as much as anyone else in terms of sculpting the world of MOTU as we know it, but I think he's maybe overestimating his own contributions a wee bit.

[Spacedust]

I think this is kind of a mixed argument. Yes Filmation added a lot of mythos and concepts, but that's not to say that they came up with the MOTU world, which is the kind of vibe I'm getting they're trying to push here.
It's kinda like saying that (whatever more recent Star Trek writer / producer) came up with the Star Trek mythos, not Gene Roddenbury.

i'd believe it. as much as the mini comic fans may hate to admit the toon really did more to flesh out the world of the characters than the toys ever did

Well... yes and no. Fleshing out isn't quite the same as coming up with the bare bones structures.
And as much as I'm a Filmation fan, I'd dispute that they'd "flesh out the world of characters", when many they just dumbed down into generic goons, far from the edgier, varied mini-comics ... but then we're straying onto a whole other debate

[oICEMANo]

I for one would have liked to have seen the early minis Eternia fleshed out with more comics.

[He-Dad]

Kevin is God....interview was good too.....hehe.

[HarryCanyon]

I never knew Paul Dini and Bruce Timm were involved with this show before until i did research on the net about 11 years ago and that kicks a$$ you know those two are geniuses for making such shows like Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, Batman TAS, Justice League, Superman TAS and other DC/Warner shows.

[Nemisythe]

Hey guys just wanted to drop in a tidbit here and inform y'all that Paul Dini was just recently on a Kevin smith podacst (Fatman on Batman) where he spoke of his career ladder and Kevin had him speak on his Filmation MOTU experience offering a nice little chunk of history, definitely worth the listen!

here's the link for anyone wanting to listen:
**Please do not post direct links to this interview. Lots of vulgarity. It's easy enough to find if you look for Kevin Smith's podcast site.**