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Thread: Paul Dini Filmation Writer says Filmation came up with MOTU Mythos, not Mattel...

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    Heroic Warrior xBBestx's Avatar
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    Paul Dini Filmation Writer says Filmation came up with MOTU Mythos, not Mattel...

    Sorry if this is old news, Kevin Smith interviews Paul Dini, writer with Filmation who dismisses the MOTU creation arguments in the trailer of Toy Masters, claiming Filmation came up with more of the mythos than Mattel. Starts about 35 mins in. Some intersting info...

    Used to have the link in here but apparently it had some bad words in it so it was deleted and I have been warned. If any grown ups want to search it out it's called SMODcast Episode 211.
    Last edited by xBBestx; May 17, 2012 at 10:28pm.

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    CURSE YOU GIN MONKEY the_ultimate_evil's Avatar
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    i'd believe it. as much as the mini comic fans may hate to admit the toon really did more to flesh out the world of the characters than the toys ever did
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    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Just like the G1 Transformers cartoon came up with the storyline that most kids grew up knowing, it wasn't the comics that had a movie, it was the G1 cartoon. The cartoon in the 80's was meant to bring the toys to life and toss them at kids, well more than comics would have done alone, TV was a bigger medium than comic books. And the Mini Comics that came before Filmation were scattered and not very unified.

    As I said, like it or not, Filmation is what most MOTU fans know, and that is the true MOTU story to many, there was no Goddess, that was Teela, then not Teela, then she was green, then Teela was the Sorceress, and not the Goddess. I prefer the Filmation lore to anything else, besides the 200X was based on Filmation. Granted I know there are some holes in the FIlmation story, like about the sword that merged with the Power Sword, and never mentioned again....but even the best movies have some holes, that's what happens when something isn't real, and is scripted.
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    USF Bull chuc98's Avatar
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    Well yeah the FilmaTION bible has a lot of the mythos including Infinitia and the origins of Marlena, Evil Lyn and Beast Man.
    200X fan? Classic fan? What does that mean? I'm a MotU fan!!!

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    Heroic Warrior xBBestx's Avatar
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    It's just funny to hear Paul Dini mention how clueless Mattel was... they would just bring them toys with no background, not even knowing if they were good guys or bad guys or anything about them... it was left to Filmation to figure it out. The story behind the O on Orko, or Zero rather haha. I found this pretty interesting. The Toy Masters guys should definitely try to get an interview with him for the doc as well.

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    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    To be honest, Transformers does not work as a comic book. GI JOe does, but TF does not. You lose something magical about transforming robots when it is done in pictures.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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    Got Filmation? shadowfall1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    To be honest, Transformers does not work as a comic book. GI JOe does, but TF does not. You lose something magical about transforming robots when it is done in pictures.
    That's one of the reasons I never got into the G1 comics at all, and comics as a whole just weren't my thing anyway, still aren't. Not to mention once I learned about the comics, I was already into the cartoon story, and seen a huge difference, and said nope, Cartoon for me, same with He-Man.
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    Heroic Warrior Grimbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    Just like the G1 Transformers cartoon came up with the storyline that most kids grew up knowing, it wasn't the comics that had a movie, it was the G1 cartoon. The cartoon in the 80's was meant to bring the toys to life and toss them at kids, well more than comics would have done alone, TV was a bigger medium than comic books. And the Mini Comics that came before Filmation were scattered and not very unified.
    Gotta correct you on that: Marvel comics (or more precisely: Jim Shooter) came up with the storyline for the G1 Transformers which was used for both comics (albeit different, it and the cartoon were sourced from Jim's pitch) and the cartoon (remember than the cartoon was made by Marvel productions in association with Sunbow which had very little to do with the story).

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    Heroic Warrior jhoward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    To be honest, Transformers does not work as a comic book. GI JOe does, but TF does not. You lose something magical about transforming robots when it is done in pictures.
    I beg to differ. Some of the best TF stories, characterization, lore, and mythology have come from the comics. The origin of the Matrix, Unicron, Primus, etc. all originated there - in particular from writer Simon Furman. His stories and ideas have worked their way into nearly every incarnation of Transformers since then. Transformers wouldn't be what it is today without the comics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_ultimate_evil View Post
    i'd believe it. as much as the mini comic fans may hate to admit the toon really did more to flesh out the world of the characters than the toys ever did
    That's not in dispute. There were only eleven minicomics in the pre-Filmation series. It's simply that the limited number of stories had different themes which minicomic fans prefer.
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    Yet in the end, the mini comics came BEFORE Filmation was ever in place so it still stands that they are the pre-cursor to any Filmation narrative.

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    There was more Filmation fiction that there was minicomic fiction. It stands to reason that they came up with more of the mythos than the minicomics did.
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    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_ultimate_evil View Post
    i'd believe it. as much as the mini comic fans may hate to admit the toon really did more to flesh out the world of the characters than the toys ever did
    I don't think anyone is saying that Filmation had more development than the mini-comics did. 131 episodes of half hour cartoon explores far more than a dozen mini-comics. Not to mention one mythos stopped, while the other mythos lasted until the end of the toyline. The mini-comics didn't have the time to develop the concepts that they introduced.

    Don Glut probably wasn't at those meetings with Filmation people. This might be another case where the Mattel departments didn't talk to each other, as Stratos had an allegiance way back in 82'.

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    Heroic Warrior urbanmyth's Avatar
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    If you listen to the interview, he's not real specific as to what parts Filmation developed. He says when Mattel first came to Filmation, Mattel didn't know "who" the Masters of the Universe were (He-Man's team, Skeletor's team, both, etc) and didn't have Stratos or Zodac identified as good guys or bad guys. Dini doesn't expressly say that Filmation made these two good, it could be assumed that Mattel went back and further identified them as good before Filmation got too deep in planning. He says Filmation came up with Orko (which we knew) and came up with Randor and Marlena (and while that could be debated based on the DC Comics earlier appearance, the Randor and Marlena we know including 200X all come from the Filmation look and story so Filmation made them either way).

    There wasn't a lot of He-Man talk but it was a great interview all around. Thanks for pointing this out. (Kevin's intro was crazy long and really annoying until Paul was finally introduced)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbot View Post
    Gotta correct you on that: Marvel comics (or more precisely: Jim Shooter) came up with the storyline for the G1 Transformers which was used for both comics (albeit different, it and the cartoon were sourced from Jim's pitch) and the cartoon (remember than the cartoon was made by Marvel productions in association with Sunbow which had very little to do with the story).
    I said the G1 cartoon came up with (or should I rephrase, contained...) the storyline most kids grew up knowing....being the TV Transformers, not the comic (after all they are worlds apart in violence and storyline), regardless if they were sourced from the same idea (which I did know that)....Just like Filmation, the G1 cartoon is what ended up bringing in more kids, TV is a much broader media than Comics, although Filmation had more to do with shaping the MOTU universe.
    Last edited by shadowfall1976; May 16, 2012 at 04:58pm.
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    Warrior of Evolution 13977's Avatar
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    Am I thinking of the wrong person or didn't Paul Dini used to refuse to talk about anything MOTU and Filmation?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhoward View Post
    I beg to differ. Some of the best TF stories, characterization, lore, and mythology have come from the comics. The origin of the Matrix, Unicron, Primus, etc. all originated there - in particular from writer Simon Furman. His stories and ideas have worked their way into nearly every incarnation of Transformers since then. Transformers wouldn't be what it is today without the comics.
    I have to completely and wholeheartedly agree with this. In fact, I would put the last two years of the Marvel Transformers run (#56–80, particularly #67–80) up against any classic run of comics. Furman did more to make the mythos more than just a vehicle to sell toys than any other writer. It stands as perhaps the best licensed comic of all time, except, perhaps Hama's G.I. Joe.
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    Heroic Warrior urbanmyth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13977 View Post
    Am I thinking of the wrong person or didn't Paul Dini used to refuse to talk about anything MOTU and Filmation?
    I think that might be Bruce Timm, the other guy from Batman: The Animated Series. . . but I always get these two mixed up

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    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhoward View Post
    I beg to differ. Some of the best TF stories, characterization, lore, and mythology have come from the comics. The origin of the Matrix, Unicron, Primus, etc. all originated there - in particular from writer Simon Furman. His stories and ideas have worked their way into nearly every incarnation of Transformers since then. Transformers wouldn't be what it is today without the comics.
    I'm not saying there weren't good ideas, because I agree, there were, but when it comes to Transformers in general, I just find it to lose its magic. I liked some of the stuff in the Marvel run, but I don't think IDW has ever come up with a good TF comic and DW only had the first WWI story that was good (except Grimlock being there made no sense), the rest of their stuff was crap. Plus, if I recall, the comic made Galvatron a seperate entity from Megatron, and that was utter nonsense.
    Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

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    Heroic Warrior xBBestx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanmyth View Post
    There wasn't a lot of He-Man talk but it was a great interview all around. Thanks for pointing this out. (Kevin's intro was crazy long and really annoying until Paul was finally introduced)
    You're welcome! Sorry I didn't point out how annoying the intro was! Bothered me as well haha! You can also hear him lighting up his bong or bowl or whatever throughout the interview, I think he must have been extremely high during the intro part which may have been recorded at a different time, and it was kinda obnoxious, but once it gets down to the interview it is pretty interesting. The stuff about the Batman animated series is great as well, sometimes I forget how good that show was.

    Not sure how this turned into a thread about the origins of Transformers haha.

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    Warrior of Evolution 13977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanmyth View Post
    I think that might be Bruce Timm, the other guy from Batman: The Animated Series. . . but I always get these two mixed up
    Yeah I know Bruce Timm did as one point but I though Paul Dini did as well. I could be wrong.
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    Heroic Warrior Neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfall1976 View Post
    I said the G1 cartoon came up with (or should I rephrase, contained...) the storyline most kids grew up knowing....being the TV Transformers, not the comic (after all they are worlds apart in violence and storyline), regardless if they were sourced from the same idea (which I did know that)....Just like Filmation, the G1 cartoon is what ended up bringing in more kids, TV is a much broader media than Comics, although Filmation had more to do with shaping the MOTU universe.
    In the UK, only the first few episodes of the G1 cartoon series (up to Plague of the Insecticons) was ever broadcast on TV - and those episodes were sliced into 4 minute chunks and shown daily on breakfast television, and then ONLY in the school holidays. If you wanted to see any more Transformers cartoons you had to buy the videos, and this being 1985 videos were pretty thin on the ground and very expensive.

    So what you say might be true in the USA, but for us UK fans the comic always came first.

    He-Man was completely different, of course. He was on at 4:20pm on a Monday afternoon every week. And I don't doubt that it was the cartoon more than any Masters comics (mini or otherwise) had a greater impact in driving new fans into the franchise. Of course, I was collecting He-Man toys before the Filmation cartoon debuted, so the mini-comics are always going to be special for me.

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    Heroic Warrior GozzoMan's Avatar
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    Kevin Smith & Paul Dini, pure awesomeness! Thanks for the link, xBBestx!
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    Human... Robot... Maniac Spacedust's Avatar
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    I think this is kind of a mixed argument. Yes Filmation added a lot of mythos and concepts, but that's not to say that they came up with the MOTU world, which is the kind of vibe I'm getting they're trying to push here.
    It's kinda like saying that (whatever more recent Star Trek writer / producer) came up with the Star Trek mythos, not Gene Roddenbury.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_ultimate_evil View Post
    i'd believe it. as much as the mini comic fans may hate to admit the toon really did more to flesh out the world of the characters than the toys ever did
    Well... yes and no. Fleshing out isn't quite the same as coming up with the bare bones structures.
    And as much as I'm a Filmation fan, I'd dispute that they'd "flesh out the world of characters", when many they just dumbed down into generic goons, far from the edgier, varied mini-comics ... but then we're straying onto a whole other debate
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    It says ICEMAN oICEMANo's Avatar
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    I for one would have liked to have seen the early minis Eternia fleshed out with more comics.
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