Are POP/NA Fans asking for too much?

[d*r*j*]

My comment about not wanting to make it easy for vintage MOTU-only fans to walk away from a sub with POP characters is that I firmly believe retaining fan support for an all-inclusive subscription is the best chance we have to see less popular or more obscure MOTU characters (such as green Trap-Jaw, Procrustus, Rotar, the Castle Grayskull spacesuit, 'The Magic Stealer' wizard, Kothos and General Tataran, etc) finally get their day in plastic.

The MOTU fans are the base of this line, if they are able to walk away from the toys I fear for the future of the line. I want a green Trap Jaw so I'm prepared to put up with some NA figure because it is the sacrifice we make to keep the line strong.

Now if POP had it's own sub, NA had it's own mini-sub and the main sub was MOTU (vintage with filmation/ comic/ 200x etc) wouldn't your wants be more likely?

I think that this all inclusive sub for all it's ups and downs should be a starting point only for the other properties... giving those vintage only buyers some relief from the mundane elements of later fictions.
Example 1
If you have She-Ra, Bow, Swiftwind and Frosta... you can buy the 8 (?) figure sub and get all the other colours that make up the great rebellion.
Example 2
If you have Flipshot, Optikk and SlushHead... you can buy a 6 figure sub and get, I dunno Flogg, Quake, Sagitar, Hydron, plus NA he-man and skeletor.

[phantom1592]

One thing I've noticed... is a LOT of people say 'they won't buy and all inclusive Sub without knowing what they get...'

It pops up ever sub time... How much does the 'all inclusive' nature HURT the MOTUC line? Would giving the NA line it's own sub and not putting them in the 'main' sub be BETTER...

I would actually like to see more of a 'pre-order'/Tiered subs plan worked out than what we have now..

Filmation simply doesn't count... it mixes with the others too easily.

Sub 1: 6 MOTU figures. Vintage, Filmation, prototype, snake/horde/WHATEVER....

Sub 2: 4 PoP figures: Filmation, Toy designs, whatever...

Sub 3 2 NA figures.

Sub 4: Vehicles and beasts...

If you want EVERYTHING... as so many people claim... then you sign up for all 4 and go wild.... if you don't want beasts... skip them...

I personally like options... and I like getting what I want, but not what I don't. If I had the option to ONLY buy the MOTU, for a 6 figure sub... I probably would... I may cherry pick the others... but the 12 + 4 + 3 +Beasts... is too much for me.

Smaller bites are easier for me to take a leap on

[EtherianChronicles]

For those of you who are against it, what would you think if Mattel first tested the waters with a 6-figure POP subscription based purely on the classic toy looks?

If it was based on purely toy looks, it would fail.

There are very few people looking for that.

I think most people want what they did with Catra, and seem to be doing with Frosta - making Filmation/Styleguide designs with light touches to reference the vintage toys.

As much as I love PoP, and it's the reason I am here - I'd have a hard time subbing for the vintage toy looks, which to be honest I really don't care for. I want the more Filmation-based ones, the figures that brought me to this line and I have wanted for nearly 30 years.

[Tallstar]

And the consequences?

Some of the fans are worried that POP wouldn't be re-integrated into the main line if the subscription flopped. This is always a possibility, but personally I'm confident that there's enough of a fan base to sell above the minimum requirement.

I'm not sure how it would help She-Ra come out of He-Man's shadow as we have seen the 30 Anniversary sub that the figures would still be presented on the standard MOTUC card/look.

Well, a POP sub would get its own budget, so what I would suggest is a simple change to the existing packaging to reflect that its "Princess of Power Classics". But even if Mattel opted to make no changes to the packaging whatsoever, I still think a mostly female sub line would garner tons of press, thereby putting the focus on She-Ra.

All that would change is the way fans choose to buy, i.e. those who support the MOTUC sub could choose not to buy a separate POP sub and POP-only fans could ignore the MOTUC sub. I don't see how fewer people buying specific subs benefits the long term continuity of the whole MOTUC property (i.e. consequences).

There are so many variables to take into consideration. Most hardcore POP fans are also MOTU fans, so on that front I don't think we would see tons of folks moving away from the MOTUC subscription to solely concentrate on POP. And if they did? Well, a smaller 6-figure line-up might entice POP fans to buy multiple subscriptions, making up most of the difference. I'm pretty sure some would still cherry pick MOTU/NA/2002 stuff too. On the flip side, those who really aren't interested in POP may have a change of heart if the "pressure" is no longer there. In the end, I think it would mostly balance out. So what's the point of doing a separate subscription then? Well, Mattel wouldn't be putting all their eggs in one basket. I would see this as Mattel opening doors for Princess of Power to be successful in areas that are not as easily accessible to MOTU.

I dont see her as being IN he-Mans shadow, The POP brand was a huge hit in the 80's (its audience is totally untapped, Where are the one sheets in 'Barbie Collector?'?) I like that Mattel have -on Paper -stated that ALL the toy canons are merged equally, Ok I admit that they havent shown that yet to its fullest potential....but I like the Equality...Its the Usual suspects in here that constantly shoot us and POP down that cause the most depression in here...ignore em, and you see that POP is loved -as is NA- in MOTUC.

What I meant, is that in MOTUC specifically She-Ra is in He-Man's shadow. She can't live up to her fullest potential in MOTUC, because her cast of characters are treated as "just another faction" that are ocassionally sprinkled into the line. Plus, I don't really think they're doing her story justice. It all feels very disingenuous to me. They seem to be taking a lot of focus off Etheria. It feels like they just want to rush the story so that some of the POP crew makes the transition over to Eternia.

[mykan]

We don't really know the MOTUC version of the Secret of the Sword. I think one reason they've avoided it is because of the whole Filmation rights issue. And even with Filmation rights being on the table, it's still a temporary deal, so the SOTS story will still be significantly altered from what we know. Obviously, Hordak's character isn't the Filmation depiction, so that's different... Another reason for not "dealing" with She-Ra's story is to simply keep it open for fans. 200x seemed to be pointing the story to take place totally or mostly on Eternia - so that would have been a MAJOR change. Though the Horde could have invaded Eternia, with Adora playing a villainous roll, but then been sent back to Etheria - and then the SOTS story could play out...either way it's a re-telling of a story that's a HUGE undertaking with significant changes, and I don't think Mattel's ready for that.

[mjw41]

We don't really know the MOTUC version of the Secret of the Sword. I think one reason they've avoided it is because of the whole Filmation rights issue. And even with Filmation rights being on the table, it's still a temporary deal, so the SOTS story will still be significantly altered from what we know. Obviously, Hordak's character isn't the Filmation depiction, so that's different... Another reason for not "dealing" with She-Ra's story is to simply keep it open for fans. 200x seemed to be pointing the story to take place totally or mostly on Eternia - so that would have been a MAJOR change. Though the Horde could have invaded Eternia, with Adora playing a villainous roll, but then been sent back to Etheria - and then the SOTS story could play out...either way it's a re-telling of a story that's a HUGE undertaking with significant changes, and I don't think Mattel's ready for that.

I would like to know something Mykan? You started this thread and titled it are POP/NA fans asking for too much? Now I see this from you today over in ask matty foum and honestly your hurting POP fans not helping them when you ask Scott if they are annoying? Don't give Scott a reason to think POP fan are becomming a problem. POP fans would to see their favorite Characters in the line sooner reather than later.

Are POP/Great Rebellion Fans Annoying?


mykan
Matty Member

Posted June 03, 2012 09:00 AM

I think that fan participation in any entertainment franchise is important. Star Trek fans saved that franchise. Would you say that Great Rebellion fans have helped or hurt how that aspect of the MOTUC franchise is represented? Would the released and scheduled GR products have come the way they've been scheduled anyway?


-Mykan

[MegaGearMax]

Like TG would say anything negative about passionate POP fans.

[mykan]

I would like to know something Mykan? You started this thread and titled it are POP/NA fans asking for too much? Now I see this from you today over in ask matty foum and honestly your hurting POP fans not helping them when you ask Scott if they are annoying? Don't give Scott a reason to think POP fan are becomming a problem. POP fans would to see their favorite Characters in the line sooner reather than later.

Are POP/Great Rebellion Fans Annoying?


mykan
Matty Member

Posted June 03, 2012 09:00 AM

I think that fan participation in any entertainment franchise is important. Star Trek fans saved that franchise. Would you say that Great Rebellion fans have helped or hurt how that aspect of the MOTUC franchise is represented? Would the released and scheduled GR products have come the way they've been scheduled anyway?


-Mykan

I'm not hurting the POP/GR cause at all - I actually consider myself very vocally pro-POP/GR. Check out my other posts on the he-man.org forums, the mattycollector forums, and if you're a member of Shadow Weavers Realm, you'll know me as Michael Jenkins. If Toy Guru thinks POP/GR fans are annoying, it won't be because of me asking or influencing him, it'll be because he already felt that way.

I personally believe that POP/GR fans have played a part - however great or minuscule - in promoting more Great Rebellion product in the MOTUC line sooner rather than later. Some would argue that the products that we got were already scheduled that way, and the vocal POP/GR fans are just spinning their wheels, I disagree. I do think that we will see more POP/GR and NA product get released in a given year than we have in the past, simply because the vintage MOTUC characters aren't as vast in number as they used to be. That doesn't mean that POP/GR and NA fans should sit back and sigh in relief. I think it's good to engage in discussion and promote interest for these "underdogs". Many collectors that had no interest in NA and POP/GR have "converted" - it doesn't hurt that we have a fresh continuity that ties everything together more.

The question I asked on the mattycollector forums, was phrased that way to be more attention-grabbing. I hoped for an answer that would put the debate to rest on whether or not vocal fans have any influence on character distribution. My apologies for it being off-putting, but again if Toy Guru or other fans think POP/GR fans are annoying, it will be because they already thought that way, they won't need me to sway their opinion.

[EtherianChronicles]

The question I asked on the mattycollector forums, was phrased that way to be more attention-grabbing. I hoped for an answer that would put the debate to rest on whether or not vocal fans have any influence on character distribution. My apologies for it being off-putting, but again if Toy Guru or other fans think POP/GR fans are annoying, it will be because they already thought that way, they won't need me to sway their opinion.

To be honest, I couldn't care less if Scott is annoyed by us or not. We pay the bills, we buy the figures. I know some people bow down before him in thanks that we have the line, but if we were not buying the product, he would not have a job.

[wundarwarrior]

To be honest, I couldn't care less if Scott is annoyed by us or not. We pay the bills, we buy the figures. I know some people bow down before him in thanks that we have the line, but if we were not buying the product, he would not have a job.

EXACTLY!!!!! Thank you for saying that!

[vertigoink]

I'm pretty sure after the fiasco of TMS that Scott more than anyone knows to pick his words extremely carefully concerning character distribution and fan base- he's not THAT delusional- or at least I hope not.

[phantom1592]

I personally believe that POP/GR fans have played a part - however great or minuscule - in promoting more Great Rebellion product in the MOTUC line sooner rather than later. Some would argue that the products that we got were already scheduled that way, and the vocal POP/GR fans are just spinning their wheels, I disagree. I do think that we will see more POP/GR and NA product get released in a given year than we have in the past, simply because the vintage MOTUC characters aren't as vast in number as they used to be. That doesn't mean that POP/GR and NA fans should sit back and sigh in relief. I think it's good to engage in discussion and promote interest for these "underdogs". Many collectors that had no interest in NA and POP/GR have "converted" - it doesn't hurt that we have a fresh continuity that ties everything together more.

Which is it?

Are there going to be more PoP next year because the Fans demand it? or becasue there arent' as many vintage characters left?

Some questions I don't think needed to be asked, and this is one of them. It's been answered a dozen times already.

Scott has a roadmap of character releases... He says he has deviated 'very little' from it.

Whether you beleive this or not, That's what his answer is last month, six months ago, and will be six months from now... He'll never admit that his schedule is altered from outside pressure.

Do I think there will be more next year? Yeah... I do. Honestly there are very few vintage left that I'm interested in... But I also beleive that it was planned that way. Filmation adjusted the roadmap some... but since the first dip since then is Shadow Weaver, it was only in PoP's favor

[mykan]

Which is it?

Are there going to be more PoP next year because the Fans demand it? or becasue there arent' as many vintage characters left?

Some questions I don't think needed to be asked, and this is one of them. It's been answered a dozen times already.

Scott has a roadmap of character releases... He says he has deviated 'very little' from it.

Whether you beleive this or not, That's what his answer is last month, six months ago, and will be six months from now... He'll never admit that his schedule is altered from outside pressure.

Do I think there will be more next year? Yeah... I do. Honestly there are very few vintage left that I'm interested in... But I also beleive that it was planned that way. Filmation adjusted the roadmap some... but since the first dip since then is Shadow Weaver, it was only in PoP's favor

Which is it? You answered your own question. Indeed there is a set roadmap, which has only had "a little" adjustment. A couple of those adjustments have been in POP/GR favor, and so POP fan vocality did help. Sometimes a question is asked not to be answered, but to let others know that things are being thought about, and that things are wanted...

- - - Updated - - -

To be honest, I couldn't care less if Scott is annoyed by us or not. We pay the bills, we buy the figures. I know some people bow down before him in thanks that we have the line, but if we were not buying the product, he would not have a job.

True. Very true. But he is human, and he is susceptible to comments and questions asked by us fans and collectors. Will he admit to that? Perhaps not, I don't really care. But if we as fans can have some influence on things, then it's a chance we take. There's 2 camps here: the one that's generally happy with the roll out because there's more of what they want in the roll out - so they don't have much to say. The second camp wants to see more of what they want in the roll out, since not as much of it is showing up. I know there's a road map, and that a lot is planned. But it doesn't hurt to generate discussion about "the underdogs" - who knows, fans who weren't into that stuff before might change there minds...oh that's already happening...

and here's TG's answer to that "annoying" question"

"POP fans are great and we have already done/announced four unique female POP Great Rebellion figure for 2012 alone with more to come as the years roll on." http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve...7/m/3101040067

He's getting better at PR, I'll give him that.

[BoShek]

As a fan of NA, I would still be shocked to see any figures beyond He-Man and Skeltetor, Flogg and Hydron.

[EldestSon]

and here's TG's answer to that "annoying" question"

"POP fans are great and we have already done/announced four unique female POP Great Rebellion figure for 2012 alone with more to come as the years roll on." http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve...7/m/3101040067

He's getting better at PR, I'll give him that.

wait so is shadow weaver not pop now? i'm getting confused. first he says horde is pop and now its sounds like it's not.

(frosta, star sisters = 4...shadow weaver would be 5)

[Firefly]

wait so is shadow weaver not pop now? i'm getting confused. first he says horde is pop and now its sounds like it's not.

(frosta, star sisters = 4...shadow weaver would be 5)

He's referring to "four unique female POP Great Rebellion," so Great Rebellion characters. He isn't saying Shadow Weaver is not POP.

[mykan]

wait so is shadow weaver not pop now? i'm getting confused. first he says horde is pop and now its sounds like it's not.

(frosta, star sisters = 4...shadow weaver would be 5)

POP is made up of Great Rebellion and Horde characters, much like MOTU is made up of Heroic Warriors and Evil Warriors (for the most part), and NA is made up of Galactic Protectors and Space Mutants. I'm glad I phrased my question by making sure to use "Great Rebellion", since those characters are particularly the ones I was asking about.