Does MOTU really need heroes and villains?

[Phil.Pastel]

Just wondering if there's any real need to have 'villains' and 'heroes' in MOTU. I guess in She-ra or NA, yes. Not sure about 200X.

I just know when I was a kid there weren't good guys and bad guys. There were cool guys (he-man, trapjaw) and not so cool guys (stratos, beastman). There were characters and figures I really liked and other characters I didn't like so much.

It was Filmation who started classifying the guys. The problem with that of course is that the villains always lose. I wonder about a series where the viewer is merely an observer of a conflict between 2 opposing sides, trading victories and whatnot.

Well, what do you guys think?


EDIT

A point that I should probably emphasize here is that the viewer will in all likelihood choose his own heroes. So there isn't any need for the writers or directors to tell said viewer who to root for.

[Madison Carter]

It was Filmation who started classifying the guys.

No...no it wasn't.

[VZX]

Ummm. Yes, they do.

The characters will categorized as "heroic" or "evil" before the Filmation cartoon existed.

[Phil.Pastel]

Where, on the package? So what? You took them out of the pack and threw the packaging away. Then you just had a bunch of figures in your hands.

[Jukka]

Where, on the package? So what? You took them out of the pack and threw the packaging away. Then you just had a bunch of figures in your hands.

Did you also throw the mini-comics away?

I unfortunately did that too.

[Phil.Pastel]

Did you also throw the mini-comics away?

I unfortunately did that too.

Absolutely. I never took them all that seriously past wave 1. Early on, I actually read them. Later, I usually didn't even read them.

That was the beauty of the line back then. We didn't have any preconceived notions of who had to be in what faction. You just had this mob of cool figures released, more or less in the same time period. And it was up to you to decide who was king.

[krosfyah]

transforemers was even more generic when it came out. I remember not liking them because they were so generic you didn't know who was who at first.

I like heroes and villains though, I always set up a reason to cheer for the hero and boo the villain.

[Phil.Pastel]

transforemers was even more generic when it came out. I remember not liking them because they were so generic you didn't know who was who at first.

I still don't know who is who

I like heroes and villains though, I always set up a reason to cheer for the hero and boo the villain.

I'm not saying the super hero formula should not ever be used. I'm just saying that possibly that was part of the success of the original line. No attempt has ever been made to recapture that, not even in a comic book setting

[krosfyah]

I still don't know who is who






I'm not saying the super hero formula should not ever be used. I'm just saying that possibly that was part of the success of the original line. No attempt has ever been made to recapture that, not even in a comic book setting

I get it, I'm just saying for me, I liked the boundries defined in instances like this, for example I HATED that Stratos and Zodac were either heroic or evil in the early materials, TELL ME WHICH IS WHICH DAMMIT!! In fact I didn't buy either of them in the original line based partially on the seemingly confusing canon.

[Phil.Pastel]

I get it, I'm just saying for me, I liked the boundries defined in instances like this, for example I HATED that Stratos and Zodac were either heroic or evil in the early materials, TELL ME WHICH IS WHICH DAMMIT!! In fact I didn't buy either of them in the original line based partially on the seemingly confusing canon.

Maybe I was just an independent thinker, I have no idea. I never needed anyone to tell me how to play with the figures. Stratos and Zodac were both wimps where I was concerned. I liked Zodac more than Stratos, but he still got pushed around

[krosfyah]

Maybe I was just an independent thinker, I have no idea. I never needed anyone to tell me how to play with the figures. Stratos and Zodac were both wimps where I was concerned. I liked Zodac more than Stratos, but he still got pushed around

generally I'm an independent thinker too, I guess just not when it comes to my toys and their allegiances. I guess I want t get the story 'right' when I played.

[Phil.Pastel]

I definitely did not get the story right. He-man was not the toughest character, trap-jaw was top dog and Webstor was close 2nd when he came out. Skeletor was not in charge of anybody. They beat him down no problem, and so did some of the other figures. Most of the heroes were wimps. Strangely enough, Prince Adam was a super tough figure when he came in. He used to beat people up. I liked him because he was more colorful than the standard He-man figure
I found out shortly after when Filmation came out that he was supposed to be a wimp. Who knew?

[He-Dad]

Every hero needs a villian! When I was a kid I always put Moss Man in the villans though as Beast Man's brother. I knew he was supposed to be a good guy but he just looked like a fuzzy green bigfoot and had that angry face so I thought it worked better that way. But a story without Heroes and Villans isn't much of a story.

[Killian]

Ok, no heroes, no villains, no conflict, everyone is just cool or not cool, the cool guys hang out on the cool table, the not cool guys hang out on the geek table. It's MOTU Glee!

[He-Dad]

Ok, no heroes, no villains, no conflict, everyone is just cool or not cool, the cool guys hang out on the cool table, the not cool guys hang out on the geek table. It's MOTU Glee!

MOTU The Musical coming to theatres 2014....finally a movie year!

[Greyskull]

Where, on the package? So what? You took them out of the pack and threw the packaging away.

Of course. That makes perfect sense. And if you close your eyes, nobody can see you.

[Phil.Pastel]

Ok, no heroes, no villains, no conflict, everyone is just cool or not cool, the cool guys hang out on the cool table, the not cool guys hang out on the geek table. It's MOTU Glee!

Actually, there would be more conflict. And it would be less predictable. And there are heroes, it's just up to the viewer to decide who they are rooting for. I hate to have to point this out, but we don't have good guys and bad guys in sports (ie. football, tennis, etc). Everyone still finds a player and a team to root for.

Every hero needs a villian! When I was a kid I always put Moss Man in the villans though as Beast Man's brother. I knew he was supposed to be a good guy but he just looked like a fuzzy green bigfoot and had that angry face so I thought it worked better that way. But a story without Heroes and Villans isn't much of a story.

But again, you are telling people who to root for and who to root against. Trap-jaw fans are out of luck in most media. He's a secondary character behind skeletor, always, and incapable of defeating the good guys - who you may not like. It's predictable story telling. Worse, he was portrayed as a complete buffoon by Filmation

[He-Dad]

Actually, there would be more conflict. And it would be less predictable. And there are heroes, it's just up to the viewer to decide who they are rooting for. I hate to have to point this out, but we don't have good guys and bad guys in sports (ie. football, tennis, etc). Everyone still finds a player and a team to root for.




But again, you are telling people who to root for and who to root against. Trap-jaw fans are out of luck in most media. He's a secondary character behind skeletor, always, and incapable of defeating the good guys - who you may not like. It's predictable story telling. Worse, he was portrayed as a complete buffoon by Filmation

You could say ALL the villans were portrayed as bafoons in the Filmation cartoon....as well as most of the heroes. But the sculpts of the figures lended most characters to their status as good or evil. Give any kid a bunch of He-man guys that they've never seen and 9 times out of 10 they'll get most of them right. Hordak and the Horde guys are a prime example. They look monsterous...which would lend them to being "bad". You can still root for Trap Jaw without him being the good guy. Who says good guys ALWAYS have to win. (Se7en anyone?!)

[Phil.Pastel]

Mantanae doesn't look monstrous or bad. Who knows what he looks like

[He-Dad]

Mantanae doesn't look monstrous or bad. Who knows what he looks like

He did to me as a kid....a mouth full of fangs and those buggy eyes. I always let him get beat up by Buzz Off

[Phil.Pastel]

He kind of looks like a space alien when his eyes go up.

All I know, is the group canon is stagnant. It changes very little over 30 years. Now they add in a few new characters like velcron or draego man and it's all new, right? No. Why not a free for all comic/mini-series where everybody is battling it out over some newly discovered magical item or weapon. Forget about good vs evil, and just them all fight it out. That's all I'm trying to say.

[He-Dad]

I wouldn't mind if new characters were rogues out for themselves and unaffiliated, but allegiances have always played an important part in MOTU mythos. For example, I for one think Draego-man could kick Skeletors keister so why would he follow him. However, just looking at him you know he's too bad to be good.

[Phil.Pastel]

Yes, but it really doesn't make sense that villains, guys who are supposed to be so evil would never turn on each other. That kind of thing should be common place. We never once saw Trap-jaw, whiplash, mer-man, etc. slug it out during 132 episodes of Filmation. The viewer was cheated of an interesting battle, the canon was deprived of some unpredictability, and it doesn't make much sense, really. I'm just now starting to watch the 200X series, so maybe they occasionally tried to change the formula. I'll find out as I go. I know Filmation never really did.

Note: I am a Filmation fan, btw. I love it. But that doesn't change the facts, nor the fact that I try to be unbiased when discussing this subject.

[Akai]

I think there were times when some of the Evil Warriors attempted to leave or go rogue only to crawl back to Skeletor at the end of the episode. All is forgiven and forgotten but in MYP, it can get ugly.

[Phil.Pastel]

I think there were times when some of the Evil Warriors attempted to leave or go rogue only to crawl back to Skeletor at the end of the episode. All is forgiven and forgotten but in MYP, it can get ugly.

That's closer to how it should be. Instead of "Smudge" gambling with Korodite against Melbrag, we could have gotten a civil war type of situation amongst the evil warriors

The way I see it, these are ruthless, selfish, power-hungry barbarian types. They are going to be short of manners, have bad tempers, be prone to violence, not trust others, be sadistic, etc.

No way such a group composed of those personality types should be displaying the type of loyalty and teamwork we saw in Filmation. That was the show's biggest failing, obviously.