Who would you like to see “come out” as positive role models? [in DC/MOTU series]

[Neutro]

Which MOTU characters would you like to see “come out” as positive role models?
[If DC comic license continues...]

We here at the org, are all mature, reasonable adults, capable of respectful and civil discussion, right? (I mean, this doesn't need to be a “protected” thread, right?)

So at first I was thinking this topic may be a bit premature...but then I realized, once the 6-issue DC MOTU comic mini-series coming next month proves to be a HUGE success (which I'm sure it will be), we are likely to get an additional longer-term, and/or more short-term MOTU licensed series, and therefore, character and story development for those potential comics would have to begin...well, now!

That said, and given the current national, and even global, positive trends towards a social majority of acceptance, or at least tolerance, in general, of gays/GLBT people in society, spawning more and more real life, as well as fictional, gay role models “coming out of the closet” almost weekly it seems (e.g. President Barack Obama affirming support of Gay marriage, DC's the new 52's Green Lantern, former NFL player Wade Davis coming out/speaking out on national TV...) I feel that now is the perfect time to 'revisit' the idea of some of our favorite MOTU characters “coming out” and becoming the latest examples of fictional, positive gay role models!

...And what better platform to tell these types of mature-oriented storylines than in a new “licensed” mainly adult-aimed comic series, like the forthcoming series from DC?!

Now let's not take this the wrong way. I mean eventually, and gradually, these types of storylines could be introduced, such as in the second year maybe, after we reintroduce and reestablish many of our favorite and main MOTU characters back into the comic world mainstream; Meaning, I'm not saying let's 'force' these types of storylines on readers (nor in terms of a 'forced' story) in the first issue of a potential second series or continuation of the series coming next month, but maybe, beyond that first series, the seedlings (or subtle hints) could begin to be planted....

Ok. Hopefully that was enough of a preface, to now get on to the meat of the topic here: Who?

Who would you – the die-hard fans here – like to see come out of the Eternian or Etherian proverbial closet?

(And since DC is apparently free to use any and all existing MOTU characters, including the current and upcoming MOTUC characters/figures, I'd say that they're all fair game for this topic.)

Personally, I have long championed for He-Man becoming the first openly gay mainstream fictional hero/role model, but unfortunately, that just seems very unlikely to happen, at least in the very near future anyway, for what seems to be obvious reasons (...Mattel “Inc.). However, if Mattel actually, um, “had the balls” to do that, well heck, I'd be in full support!

But the first character that came to mind after posing this question to myself again after not really thinking about it for a few years, was Count Marzo. I can envision his evilness stemming from bitterness and fear of others possible ridicules of that side of him, along with his own sadness and nonacceptance of himself, leading him down the wrong paths until finally one day when he “sees the light” – possibly through a found lover/partner – and becomes a hero and joins the heroic Masters of the Universe! Heck, he could even eventually fall back to the dark side, thereby exhibiting a constant struggle within himself, that mirrors the real life struggles and behaviors that some gay people, young and old, experience.

So that's just one idea of mine of “who” I could see as being portrayed as gay/GLBT and “how,” in a possible continuing MOTU licensed comic storyline...so what say you all?

I really am interested to read what ideas you all have, and how you feel about this in general. There really are so many possibilities!

[Shadow-Ra]

I'm gay myself and it's not really something that I'd want to read. I don't want there to be any kind of relationship/sex crap in the fantasy Eternia/Etheria comics that I read.

I don't just mean from gay people, I mean heterosexual's too.

It just bores me.

Plus if it did happen in an MOTU comic, people would go mad (sadly) just because it was either 2 guys or 2 girls getting it on.

[Tallstar]

From Princess of Power, Netossa and Spinnerella are obvious choices. I'd also make Bow gay and Double Trouble bisexual.

From Masters of the Universe? Maybe Tri-Klops. He-Man/Adam definitely. He-Man/Adam having romantic feelings for women never feels right to me in any form of entertainment. To me, it always comes off as more of a friendship thing.

[jibernish]

I'd just as soon keep sexuality out of MOTU altogether. Hetero and homosexuality included. Sure, we have a few couplings where necessary, like Randor and Marlena, but only because it furthers the story by creating Adam and Adora. In my opinion, there's no basis for that kind of romantic/sexual storytelling in MOTU at all. We've never had it, and to introduce it now would not be organic - it would go against the feel of the mythos, at least for me. MOTU appeals to that wide-eyed child inside of me, and that kid doesn't want to see ANYONE kissing on Eternia - not boy/girl, boy/boy, or girl/girl.

I'm all for everyone having positive role models, but I just don't think this kind of storyline has any place in MOTU. It would seemed forced, no matter how well it was pulled off.

But I respect everyone else's opinion.

EDIT: I guess there was some romance in She-ra, but I didn't watch that series, and am not really interested in those storylines.

[krosfyah]

Wasn't TG hinting at some infatuation between Spector and Lazer-Lot in his latest bio?
I think they go very well together.

They are my candidates too, since their bios seemingly make them EXTREMELY important, get them a room too. give em centre stage for EVERYTHING!

but to be honest, I'm not really one for any relationships either. outside of established ones, I don't like romance and sex stuff in my action series. it slows it down for me and weighs down the pace. I mean I know it furthers development, but generally I don't like it and those moments almost always come across as forced.

I also don't like fans/writers projecting their own fantasies on the characters (etc Adam hooking up with Bow, Aquaman hooking up with Wonder Woman, or if you want tonnes of fan made examples, just look at any I wanna call it hentai but it might be sentai)

[eddie3429]

I was thinking about this today too actually.

While i don't think the motu story should be over sexualised like some have mentioned i would be fine with a character being gay. simialar to archie comics Kevin Keller, gay character in all ages story.

As long as its an aspect to the character and doesn't define the character i am fine with it.

I would choose Sy-klone myself, not sure why. I feel it wouldn't come across as forced to have him be gay.

Maybe its because James Robinson is righting the comic and he has experience making blue characters gay in a tasteful way... ( you got to be real nerdy to get that joke)

[scott metzger]

An interesting approach here would be not just looking at a particular character, but perhaps some of the actual societies or races on Eternia and Etheria. There's no reason to think that all of the myriad cultures we've seen on both planets have the exact same sexual mores, any more than it is true on Earth. Many of the kingdoms on Etheria are highly matriarchal from what we've seen, which could lead to very different roles and perceptions of men and women. Some of these cultures might not only accept but encourage same sex relationships or bisexual choices. As such, it would be the norm in these societies, where the very idea of "coming out" would be something they wouldn't even think of, as such relationships would be considered a completely normal part of your average romantic entanglements.

I don't know if they have the space to get into such things in this short mini-series, but if this leads to an open ended series, it might make for good story fodder to explore said differences that might exist between the cultures we've seen.

[jdscissorhands]

I'd also choose Sy-Klone. I don't know why...

As for Bow or Adam, I don't consider them as gay characters. Sure they look gay but each of them has a soft spot for ladies...

[Haephestus]

Cool topic.

On the one hand, I wouldn't be interested in reading about relationship dramas in any MOTU comics (if I even planned to purchase the comics). But, I wouldn't mind a same-sex couple being introduced/referenced in the same way that I expect King He-Man/Adam and Queen/Sorceress Teela to be referenced (if the comics ever went that far into the future) and in the same way that the marriage between Skeletor/Keldor and Evil-Lynn was referenced in the bios.

As such, my first and foremost candidate would be Bow. It made sense to me that in the cartoon he "loved" She-Ra in much the same way that many gay males (myself included) seem to love powerful heroines like She-Ra, Wonder Woman, Buffy: The Vampire Slayer and Xena: Warrior Princess. As for Bow's potential love interest, the pickings appear to be pretty slim on Etheria but I'm sure Bow could find someone on Eternia, even if they're not a member of the good "Masters". That typed, I do like eddie's suggestion of Sy-Klone as it seems to "fit". I wouldn't rule out Clamp Champ either. And, if he wasn't snake-fied and dead, even Man-at-Arms (although I do think that would be contrary to those story-lines which indicate a romantic relationship between MAA and the Sorceress).

[Rodster6]

The relationship between king and queen Randor is relevant as they parented the chosen ones and even Miros relationships are relevant as it seems to be a motivation for keldor going down the dark path but otherwise, I don't see the need or have any desire to see more sexual relationships explored in MOTU. This isn't a soap opera. Unless it is really relevant to the story it would just seem shoe horned in for PC sake or as a gimmick for attention like DC.

People already joke about characters in MOTU being called 'Ram-man, Fisto, Whiplash' etc and how they all run around in their undies, adding a gay character may fuel the fire rather than having a positive reaction.

[MsMarvel fan]

Draego-man obviously. Who doesn't want some hot man-dragon on man-dragon action in their cannon?

[He-bro]

An interesting approach here would be not just looking at a particular character, but perhaps some of the actual societies or races on Eternia and Etheria. There's no reason to think that all of the myriad cultures we've seen on both planets have the exact same sexual mores, any more than it is true on Earth. Many of the kingdoms on Etheria are highly matriarchal from what we've seen, which could lead to very different roles and perceptions of men and women. Some of these cultures might not only accept but encourage same sex relationships or bisexual choices. As such, it would be the norm in these societies, where the very idea of "coming out" would be something they wouldn't even think of, as such relationships would be considered a completely normal part of your average romantic entanglements.

I don't know if they have the space to get into such things in this short mini-series, but if this leads to an open ended series, it might make for good story fodder to explore said differences that might exist between the cultures we've seen.

- - - Updated - - -

An interesting approach here would be not just looking at a particular character, but perhaps some of the actual societies or races on Eternia and Etheria. There's no reason to think that all of the myriad cultures we've seen on both planets have the exact same sexual mores, any more than it is true on Earth. Many of the kingdoms on Etheria are highly matriarchal from what we've seen, which could lead to very different roles and perceptions of men and women. Some of these cultures might not only accept but encourage same sex relationships or bisexual choices. As such, it would be the norm in these societies, where the very idea of "coming out" would be something they wouldn't even think of, as such relationships would be considered a completely normal part of your average romantic entanglements.

I don't know if they have the space to get into such things in this short mini-series, but if this leads to an open ended series, it might make for good story fodder to explore said differences that might exist between the cultures we've seen.

Normally I'm not for this but this could make a great story line.

Have it so the race is mostly male, and there are fewer girls, and woman are just used for breading when a couple wants to have children.

A teen boy who likes a girl, and now he faces reticule and must hide his feelings. He "comes out" thinking and feeling really awkward and he and his significant other must flee. He-Man helps him "come out" from the norm of his people and teaches tolerance to these people.

[Berserker79]

Don't need any sexuality in MOTU. Same for death or bloody action. MOTU is an awesome memory from my childhood, it should not be loaded with mature stuff...

[AdultCollector]

Don't need any sexuality in MOTU. Same for death or bloody action. MOTU is an awesome memory from my childhood, it should not be loaded with mature stuff...

Totally agreed!

[JonWes]

Don't need any sexuality in MOTU. Same for death or bloody action. MOTU is an awesome memory from my childhood, it should not be loaded with mature stuff...

The problem when this comes up is that people link homosexuality with "mature" stuff. It doesn't really have to be nor is it inherently so. I learned that mommy and daddy loved each other when I was one or two years old. Maybe before that, I just don't remember it. People having feelings for someone else isn't really a "mature" subject, I'd think. And that's all that is being suggested.

With that in mind... would I want it to happen? I don't see any reason why not. I'm not clamoring for it, but if it happened it could work. As for who, that is a bit tougher. There are enough characters who are a bit of a blank slate in that realm. In fact, besides Teela/Adam/He-man, Frosta/He-man, She-Ra/Bow/SeaHawk, Man-At-Arms/Sorceress, Marlena/Randor, Evil-Lynn/He-man and Orko/Dree-elle I can't think of too many more characters who have expressly shown some type of affection/feelings for the opposite sex. Which of course, doesn't mean they are off the table in REAL LIFE but as far as not conflicting with fan's pre-existing notions that'd be problematic.

I'd nominate:

Zodak - Because he's awesome, a relatively new character and a person of color. There needs to be more GLBT people of color represented in the world.

Mekaneck - I don't know why, but he's an original Master. So it'd have impact and not just some C-lister like Rio Blast (much as I like him!)

Entraptra - I have no real reason for this. I just think she is neat and the idea could give her a little extra oomph for the bio.

[Beastmaster]

Rotar and Twistoid! Now how would that work out... ?

[shadowfall1976]

None, no thanks.

[Crow]

None, no thanks.

I'm inclined to agree. It was a lazy, hackneyed idea by DC and James Robinson. If you want to create a new character that's homosexual then, by all means, do it! Just don't change an established character's sex, race, religion, sexuality, etc. It was a poor move by DC and I hope Mattel would be smarter.

[dorrmann]

Hey guys. I just thought I'd jump in here really quickly.

This is a great topic, and there's nothing wrong with this discussion as it stands now. Please keep in mind, however, that taking it away from the context of the toys and storyline and into the politics behind it would be Tar Swamp material. It's happened in prior MOTUC discussions, and I'd really rather not see it happen in this one.

Let's all have a good discussion!

[wundarwarrior]

None. It isn't necessary at all.

[Marvelous0ne]

Wasn't TG hinting at some infatuation between Spector and Lazer-Lot in his latest bio?
I think they go very well together.

I would agree with this! I mean there has to be something between the two to squeeze into a "purple" spandex suit!

Well, obviously, the newest hot couple in the Lore is The Mighty Spectre and Sir Lazer Lot, Dare's fun-loving gay uncles! Both of them "escaped" from the path to find their way into a more tolerant society in the future.

I've always had SyKlone and Roboto as a couple. Something about the way those two interacted in the MYP cartoon worked for me - with SyKlone having no family, and looking for family, but all along, Roboto was the one there for him. It was very sweet.

Netossa & Spinnerella as another couple!

Roboto? He's a Robot! He has no gender. Unless he is rebuilt into a more human appearance. And was like Data from Star Trek TNG.

[vertigoink]

NO and here's why:

When you start shoe horning in sexuality just for cheap media attention or as a "positive" role model, you end up invariably causing the opposite effect. For example, look to the New52 Green Lantern coming out angle- it turned out to come off more as creepy and forced as opposed to responsibly representing a sexual preference or people as a whole. He-Man is a fantasy property and has more mature elements at times but I say leave sex, gore (except Vykron ) and politics out of the equation please.

- - - Updated - - -

I would agree with this! I mean there has to be something between the two to squeeze into a "purple" spandex suit!




Roboto? He's a Robot! He has no gender. Unless he is rebuilt into a more human appearance. And was like Data from Star Trek TNG.

Even though I assume this is done tongue in cheek, this is the type of silly joking that can actually cause a negative turn when you start getting into sexuality in a popular franchise.

[sagelion]

Really. Fisto and Ram Man never came to mind?

Seriously though, my impression of Eternia/Etheria is one where the standard constraints of gender specific relationships is a thing of the past. People love who they love and it is not an issue.

With storyline, I agree, I really don't see a point to establishing any romantic overtones. It takes away from the whole MOTU aesthetic (which is very homoerotic anyway) of heroes and villains. I think nuance and subtext can be very powerful. The entire notion of treating people well based on the fact that treating everyone well is very powerful. Even Skeletor gets cut a break.

However, my Eternia has no labels and people fall in love with whom they fall in love with. My bigger issues are the lasting effects of Beast Man's predilections.

[Slave2Evil_Lyn]

The problem when this comes up is that people link homosexuality with "mature" stuff. It doesn't really have to be nor is it inherently so. I learned that mommy and daddy loved each other when I was one or two years old. Maybe before that, I just don't remember it. People having feelings for someone else isn't really a "mature" subject, I'd think. And that's all that is being suggested.

I completely agree with you Jon. Having a LGBT character doesn't really add any "mature" stuff to the story. Said character doesn't have to be seen hitting one every other character of the same gender or in bed with them. For a story to have depth there has to be connections between characters, some just friendship and others a deeper love. The important thing to remember is that there is a big difference between sexuality and sex. Have a gay characters could simply just be depicted as always together, like Netossa and Spinnerella, and dialogue that alludes to their love for each other. Much like He-Man/Adam and Teela, it was never blatant in the cartoon that there was a connection between the two.


Other than Netossa and Spinnerella, I like the idea of it being a villain like Tri-Klops. But honestly if any character "came out" it would not bother me from Skeletor and He-Man to Ram Man, or even Gwildor.

[scott metzger]

Overall, to me, the thing that set MOTU apart from the generic barbarian stuff was the character interactions, which is always my focus in any story. The thing I liked most about the property. the toon especially, was the way the characters interacted. The friendship/mentor relationship between Adam and Duncan was a cornerstone for the story, as was the often strained relationship between Adam and the King. The undercurrents between Adam and Teela were always strong, and there was no bones about the attraction between Adora and Sea Hawk. Interrelationships are the heart of any good story; without that, it's a bunch of folks in furry shorts silly-fighting each other for a hlaf hour. So not only are the personal relationships, including romantic ones, relevant; there's basically no story worth telling without them.

As far as another point made, making a character gay, black or anything else for the sake of doing so is bad storytelling. In DC's case, making Alan Scott gay basically eliminates two other major characters, his offspring Jade and Obsidian, from the DCU, which I why I felt it was a poor choice. It is forced, rather than growing from the character and their story. And that is something I wouldn't want to see in MOTU. THere are several characters mentioned that many already are convinced are gay, and I can see that aspect "coming out" without majorly altering the characters and their place in the mythos. In other words, they don't need to "make" a character gay or anything else; the question should be whether or not that aspect fits the character and makes their story more interesting, the same criterion that should be used for any aspect of any character.

There's no reason to force diversity when it works much better to let it come naturally from the story. We already have an aspect of racial tension in the new storyline, with the Gar race apparently being looked down upon, which does add a dimension to Skeletor's character that fits and makes his tale a bit more complex. That's the way to introduce such things, in a way that expands the story and characters while also touching on important issues (much the way Star Trek was able to do in the 60's).