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Thread: Who would you like to see “come out” as positive role models? [in DC/MOTU series]

  1. #26
    Heroic Warrior Eternian Poet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigoink View Post
    He-Man is a fantasy property and has more mature elements at times but I say leave sex, gore (except Vykron ) and politics out of the equation please.
    Impossible.

    If you leave homosexuality out of a story with so many characters, you have made a political statement (e.g. to ignore or devalue it).

    If you include homosexuality , you have made a political statement (e.g. to recognise & value it in a political climate of bigotry & hatred).

    There is no escape from the politics of value, in a story. If you want to avoid this kind of discussion, you avoid writing a story altogether. Otherwise, people will (justifiably) interpret it & take issue with what it focuses on or ignores.

    Mattel became sensitive to the fact that their MOTU story had little racial diveristy. But it'll be sometime before they recognise their other prejudices. They're a conservative toy company, worried about shocking the "average-mom-in-the-toy-aisle".

    Any character could easily be written as homosexual. On the flip-side, I've always seen the Sorceress as asexual, who reproduced via parthenogenesis (much like some ancient holy-women claimed to).
    Last edited by Eternian Poet; June 13, 2012 at 11:29am.
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  2. #27
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave2Evil_Lyn View Post
    I completely agree with you Jon. Having a LGBT character doesn't really add any "mature" stuff to the story. Said character doesn't have to be seen hitting one every other character of the same gender or in bed with them. For a story to have depth there has to be connections between characters, some just friendship and others a deeper love. The important thing to remember is that there is a big difference between sexuality and sex. Have a gay characters could simply just be depicted as always together, like Netossa and Spinnerella, and dialogue that alludes to their love for each other. Much like He-Man/Adam and Teela, it was never blatant in the cartoon that there was a connection between the two.


    Other than Netossa and Spinnerella, I like the idea of it being a villain like Tri-Klops. But honestly if any character "came out" it would not bother me from Skeletor and He-Man to Ram Man, or even Gwildor.
    alluding to it is one thing, making it obvious is another. that's where IMO the problems come in. look at the joke that turned into a movement regarding Ernie and Bert. Some groups wanted them getting married! ridiculous! so alluding to it doesn't satisfy those who want them in there and being outright with it brings sex (of some sort) into the mix which most of us don't want to see anyway (gay or straight)

    One of the reasons I think violence is more accepted on TV than sex and nudity is violence is essentially black and white, you tell your kids easily, don't fight, don't hit etc. but sex is more gray. yes you don't want them having sex early, but sex itself isn't wrong, it requires more explaining and can become very complex an issue. to me that's why it's best to basically leave it out of kids properties. many of them know what mommy and daddy do, but I think even in same sex families, the kids don't know what daddy and daddy do (or mommy and mommy) they just know they have a matching set rather than one of each.

    I may be wrong but again gay sex requires more explaination than hetero sex based on mechanics and in the beginning of conversations, purpose.
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  3. #28
    Casual Fan slackrguy's Avatar
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    As a positive role model....hmmm....

    Snout Spout, because he doesn't fit the attractive aesthetic. He's would be recognized and loved/appreciated for his abilities, personality, and deeds versus having an Adonis-based aesthetic. His journey would be finding acceptance while feeling alone and how to cope with that, imo.

    *edit**plus he has an important job, firefighter. He saves peoples' lives and that's adds to him being a positive role model**

    As a story telling technique and less than positive role model...

    Catra, why is she jealous? She was never trying to steal Bow or Sea Hawk or even Hordak. Her main goal was to hurt She-Ra/Adora and the things important to her, iirc. Frustration over rejection could lead to that type of behavior and it is important to include cautionary morality tales in stories as well as positive reinforcement ones, also imo.
    Last edited by slackrguy; June 13, 2012 at 11:37am.
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  4. #29
    Heroic Warrior EldestSon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagelion View Post
    Really. Fisto and Ram Man never came to mind?

    Seriously though, my impression of Eternia/Etheria is one where the standard constraints of gender specific relationships is a thing of the past. People love who they love and it is not an issue.

    With storyline, I agree, I really don't see a point to establishing any romantic overtones. It takes away from the whole MOTU aesthetic (which is very homoerotic anyway) of heroes and villains. I think nuance and subtext can be very powerful. The entire notion of treating people well based on the fact that treating everyone well is very powerful. Even Skeletor gets cut a break.

    However, my Eternia has no labels and people fall in love with whom they fall in love with. My bigger issues are the lasting effects of Beast Man's predilections.
    there's already romance in motu. he-man/adam and teela. sorceress and MAA. randor and marlena. she-ra/adora and bow. didn't orko have a romantic story in one of the filmation toons?

    i'm fine with any of the characters who are currently romantically ambiguous coming out.

    for example, he-man suddenly coming out as gay doesn't make any sense given all of the teela stories and that there's been zero hints of it. otoh, a guy like mekaneck doesn't really have any strong romantic ties so it wouldn't come off as illogical.

  5. #30
    Heroic Warrior Eternian Poet's Avatar
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    I always liked the idea that Keldor foresaw that Eternians would destroy themselves. Their freedom would lead to material abundance & decadence & the destruction of their natural environment, poisoning them all as a result of their out of control commerce. He then set about the save them with an iron fist, making him the real hero of the story.
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  6. #31
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    I've tried not to comment on the DC character, Alan Scott, now being gay. But after seeing this thread I can't.

    Reguarding Alan Scott now being gay:The press calls it a gay superhero. that's wrong. It's the alter ego. Stop it. That works my nerve. On a side note I find it "amusing" because before the reboot/relaunch Alan's son Todd Rice (he was separated from his dad was adopted) aka Obsidian was gay.

    I buy comics to go to fantasy world. I don't want realism in my fantasy. It's about the superhero/villain not their secret identity and the life that comes with that.

    You want a gay super hero/villain? Fine. Make one from the ground up. Don't use an existing hero/villain. That's a media grabbing act. and it's pure laziness.
    You want a mexican/hispanice hero/villain? Fine. Make one from the ground up. Don't use an existing hero/villain. That's a media grabbing act. and it's pure laziness.
    You want a Blank hero/villain. Fine. Make one from the ground up. Don't use an existing hero. That's a media grabbing act. and it's pure laziness.

    How do I figure lazy?

    DC can make an effort to have a kids comic line but not one for hispanics or gay/lesbians?

    Don't give me theres no market for it. If you print it they will come. if they come that means $ and support for the comic publisher.

    Don't give making the person gay gives them depth. Giving them a personality gives them depth.

    As for the Masters side of the subject. I feel the same way. So, to answer your question. NO NO NO NO

  7. #32
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    Skeletor. I mean, have you wathed the Filmation cartoon? I think he just needs to realize that what he had with Hordak wasn't wrong or shameful. Just natural and worthy of celebration. Skeletor is living a lie and it's what makes him such a jerk. If he came out he'd find life a lot more fun.

  8. #33
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EldestSon View Post
    there's already romance in motu. he-man/adam and teela. sorceress and MAA. randor and marlena. she-ra/adora and bow. didn't orko have a romantic story in one of the filmation toons?

    i'm fine with any of the characters who are currently romantically ambiguous coming out.

    for example, he-man suddenly coming out as gay doesn't make any sense given all of the teela stories and that there's been zero hints of it. otoh, a guy like mekaneck doesn't really have any strong romantic ties so it wouldn't come off as illogical.
    It is true that there are romances in MOTU, but they are never explored. ( I believe you are remembering Orko and Dre-ell sp? by the way). I don't remember any stories where someone is suffering from a broken heart, or trying to court someone else. References to romantic relationships have always been (to my memory) in service to story. Sorceress and MAA to show Teela's backstory, Randor and Marleena as parents of Adam and Adora, rulers of the kingdom. And the Adam/Teela thing was very subtle. Nothing ever happened - no real plot elements were introduced, so it didn't change the story. It just colored the characters a bit.

  9. #34
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    I'm a conservative guy, although not in the sense of american politics, but rather someone who like things they way they are and dislike change. So I like it when characters in fiction follows what's been established about them when possible regarding their gender, their color, their personality and their sexuality. MOTU sometimes makes this impossible due to reboots and differences throughout various media. But if possible, where nothing has been established, I don't see why some characters couldn't be gay.

    And for me personally I don't mind relationship stuff in my storylines. I've read superhero comics for most of my life and I really enjoy the almost soap opera like qualities some of the titles like Uncanny X-men have. It's about balance, and I find tv-series and comics, and books generally feel more natural than for example movies when it comes to depicting evolving relationships. So in an ongoing comicbook series I would be for introducing romance or what you want to call it, but the mini that's coming out now, for that maybe some witty banter and some flirting is enough.

    Aaaanyway. Would I nominate anyone? Compared to a lot of people here I am not read up on most earlier comics nor have I watched more than one episode of the old and new cartoon so what I know of the characters comes from the mini comics that came with the figures I had. From that I only gathered that He-man liked to tell Teela how fair she was and how good her hair looked like in the sunlight. There weren't any other females that stood out in the stories I read either. No other character seemed to have any time for romance. So in my view anyone that isn't shown to have a specific orientation could be gay and I don't feel like anyone would be a better choice than another.

    I don't have any problems with adult themes in childhood nostalgia lines either, that doesn't change how I feel about them, unlike learning that favorite crators artists are not so likeable for example.

  10. #35
    Heroic Warrior Tiger-Boy's Avatar
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    I personally believe that this "sexuality preference" issue be kept away from MOTUC. We are dealing with nostalgia products, as in "we enjoyed this figures at a time in our lives that we just didn't know nor care about sexuality issues" products. So if we take the nostalgia away and make it more real, we'll just kill the magic.

    But to keep with the thread, the answer is simple:

    Bow - likes more men than women.
    She-Ra - As Adora, she likes men, but as She-Ra, she prefers women. (Ooooo - Conflict!)
    Catra - Lesbian! I see her as someone who just loves herself too much, and will not feel comfortable having a relationship with a man.
    And finally, Queen Marlena - ... Oh! She is Heterosexual. No doubt! But she is from earth... and there was that one time in college...
    Last edited by Tiger-Boy; June 13, 2012 at 12:51pm.

  11. #36
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    I personally think none. I like it the way it is, when people can use their imagination to feel however they want with the characters. I don't think there is a need to be specific with which characters are and which aren't.

  12. #37
    USF Bull chuc98's Avatar
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    I'm a guy who happens to be gay...I don't see any issue with adding something like this to a character who's identity hadn't been completely fleshed out. And no...homosexuality isn't and shouldn't be a mature subject. Heterosexuality isn't. Queen Marlena and King Randor being in a relationship is okay but putting say Clamp Champ and another male character together is suddenly bad? It wouldn't take away from the innocence of childhood because we're all now adults and capable of approaching these topics in an adult manner.
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  13. #38
    Heroic Warrior Eternian Poet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuc98 View Post
    It wouldn't take away from the innocence of childhood
    Knowing that people of the same sex can love each other romantically takes nothing from "innocence" anyway.
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  14. #39
    sculptor - fantastique JimPansen's Avatar
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    Sir Laser Lot of course. I thought that was already certain?

  15. #40
    Heroic Warrior hauke's Avatar
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    I think He-Ro could be gay. He could have been secretly in love with King Greyskull who unfortunately did not feel the same way. That's why He-Ro stuck around Eternia to help protect the love of his life and gave him his sword upon his death so that in combining their powers they could always be together.
    Also I think He-Man could be bisexual. As Adam he lives the live of a straight person because he knows that eventually he will have to marry a woman in order to keep his family-bloodline alive. As He-Man he lives out his other sexual desires since he has no obligations as the heir to the throne. That is the real reason he keeps his identity hidden. When She-Ra returns Adam does not need to keep his desires a secret anymore since She-Ra volunteers to take up the responsibility to keep the house of Randor bloodline going and marries Bow. Therefore he gives up his identity as Adam and becomes (New Adventures) He-Man permanently living out all aspects of his sexuality. He ends up living with both Teela and Clamp Champ.
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  16. #41
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutro View Post
    Who would you like to see “come out” as positive role models? [in DC/MOTU series]
    I don't care...
    "Wheresoever on earth he dwells, man is prey to two weaknesses: the need to pray and the need to love."-Marquis de Sade

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  17. #42
    Evil Lord of the Deadlift Larry Waters's Avatar
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    No.

    Unnecessary.

    I don't want any relationship crap in Masters, regardless of "type".
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  18. #43
    Heroic Warrior mjw41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigoink View Post
    NO and here's why:

    When you start shoe horning in sexuality just for cheap media attention or as a "positive" role model, you end up invariably causing the opposite effect. For example, look to the New52 Green Lantern coming out angle- it turned out to come off more as creepy and forced as opposed to responsibly representing a sexual preference or people as a whole. He-Man is a fantasy property and has more mature elements at times but I say leave sex, gore and politics out of the equation
    I agree as much as He-Man & She-Ra have been great Role models to many, the Idea of characters "Coming Out" really has no place in MOTU cannon. I have fond memories of the Filmation He-Man & She-Ra cartoons and there was nothing even hinted about that so lets please keep it out of the toyline and the character bio's.

  19. #44
    Heroic Warrior EldestSon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    It is true that there are romances in MOTU, but they are never explored. ( I believe you are remembering Orko and Dre-ell sp? by the way). I don't remember any stories where someone is suffering from a broken heart, or trying to court someone else. References to romantic relationships have always been (to my memory) in service to story. Sorceress and MAA to show Teela's backstory, Randor and Marleena as parents of Adam and Adora, rulers of the kingdom. And the Adam/Teela thing was very subtle. Nothing ever happened - no real plot elements were introduced, so it didn't change the story. It just colored the characters a bit.
    i thought there were some stories, but to your point, even to "color the characters a bit", there's no reason homosexual romances couldn't be introduced.

  20. #45
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    No romance in MOTU? Guys, there's RAMPANT romance in MOTU.

    King Grayskull is married to Veena
    Randor is married to Marlena
    Skeletor is married to Evil-Lyn
    He-Man/Adam and Teela want each other
    Kittrina wants Battle Cat
    Sea Hawk wants Adora
    Bow wants She-Ra
    Frosta wants He-Man
    Castaspella wants Adam
    He-Man wanted Sweet Bee at one point
    Orko wants Dre-Elle
    Kowl wanted some female Kowl
    Madame Razz wanted some dude at some point
    Hydron wants Mara
    Mara wants Adam/He-Man
    He-Man might have wanted Drissi at one point

    I think even Sagitar and Slushead are married to their respective mates.

    If anyone is homosexual, I would see Spinarella and Netossa.

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  21. #46
    Heroic Warrior EldestSon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    No romance in MOTU? Guys, there's RAMPANT romance in MOTU.

    King Grayskull is married to Veena
    Randor is married to Marlena
    Skeletor is married to Evil-Lyn
    He-Man/Adam and Teela want each other
    Kittrina wants Battle Cat
    Sea Hawk wants Adora
    Bow wants She-Ra
    Frosta wants He-Man
    Castaspella wants Adam
    He-Man wanted Sweet Bee at one point
    Orko wants Dre-Elle
    Kowl wanted some female Kowl
    Madame Razz wanted some dude at some point
    Hydron wants Mara
    Mara wants Adam/He-Man
    He-Man might have wanted Drissi at one point

    I think even Sagitar and Slushead are married to their respective mates.

    If anyone is homosexual, I would see Spinarella and Netossa.
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  22. #47
    Master of Mix & Match Charlie Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    No romance in MOTU? Guys, there's RAMPANT romance in MOTU.

    King Grayskull is married to Veena
    Randor is married to Marlena
    Skeletor is married to Evil-Lyn
    He-Man/Adam and Teela want each other
    Kittrina wants Battle Cat
    Sea Hawk wants Adora
    Bow wants She-Ra
    Frosta wants He-Man
    Castaspella wants Adam
    He-Man wanted Sweet Bee at one point
    Orko wants Dre-Elle
    Kowl wanted some female Kowl
    Madame Razz wanted some dude at some point
    Hydron wants Mara
    Mara wants Adam/He-Man
    He-Man might have wanted Drissi at one point

    I think even Sagitar and Slushead are married to their respective mates.

    If anyone is homosexual, I would see Spinarella and Netossa.
    ...stratos is married to delora;
    teela na/sorceress had a romance with an injuried unknow soldier;
    queen angella is married to king micah (ok, he's missing, but...);
    glimmer wants corporal romeo (if i'm not wrong);
    ...not really sure 'bout buzz-off and queen andreeno!

  23. #48
    Heroic Warrior Ayota's Avatar
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    Really interesting to read peoples ideas on the subject(s). Also interesting to see some strong reactions.
    My 2 cents:
    a.I've always imagined relationships between the characters in Motu even as a little kid.
    b. It seems to me stories that involve relationships between characters end up having characters that are more relateable to readers because they go through things that we go through. In essence they become more real. Motu deserves this.
    c. It always seemed like a cop out that Duncan is only Teela's adopted father and not her biological one. To me he is her real Dad and. This presents an interesting dynamic between him and the Sorceress. Like they have to keep their relationship in the past or on the down low for Teela's sake.
    d.Don't care if the relationships are gay or straight.
    e. All super successful stories have this element,-
    Batman, Gi Joe, X-men, even Conan a bit. Motu on the whole will become stronger when the characters are taken to this next level. Like I said it's always been at that level for me anyhow.
    Peace!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    No romance in MOTU? Guys, there's RAMPANT romance in MOTU.

    King Grayskull is married to Veena
    Randor is married to Marlena
    Skeletor is married to Evil-Lyn
    He-Man/Adam and Teela want each other
    Kittrina wants Battle Cat
    Sea Hawk wants Adora
    Bow wants She-Ra
    Frosta wants He-Man
    Castaspella wants Adam
    He-Man wanted Sweet Bee at one point
    Orko wants Dre-Elle
    Kowl wanted some female Kowl
    Madame Razz wanted some dude at some point
    Hydron wants Mara
    Mara wants Adam/He-Man
    He-Man might have wanted Drissi at one point

    I think even Sagitar and Slushead are married to their respective mates.

    If anyone is homosexual, I would see Spinarella and Netossa.
    cool info! Thanks! I never paid as much attention to the cartoon as the comics and toys so i didn't know a lot of that.

  24. #49
    Squirrel that can type Lewd_Squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    Wasn't TG hinting at some infatuation between Spector and Lazer-Lot in his latest bio?
    I think they go very well together.
    So, are you saying that him & Geoff are an item, & that he's hinting at that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EldestSon View Post
    no body wants me
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  25. #50
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