Reply With QuoteI think they do. She-Ra does mention her brother a few times and seems to be quite open with that bit of infoOriginally Posted by Darth Latveria
And yes even I am shocked I know that...bad wolfy...bad bad wolfy
I just read this post and I've got a question for anyone that would like to enlighten me.
Does the general public in Eternia/Etheria know that He-Man and She-Ra are siblings?
I think they do. She-Ra does mention her brother a few times and seems to be quite open with that bit of info
And yes even I am shocked I know that...bad wolfy...bad bad wolfy
Of course you are absolutely right, however, that's just the nature of the current state of the movie/entertainment industry and a case of Mattel being set in their ways so far as how they choose to unfold the mythos. Movie executives generally aren't putting too many headlining female superhero movies into production, and when they do it's usually in a very specific way. (i.e. spin-off) And Mattel can't move past the chronological formula.
Folks often say "You can't have She-Ra without He-Man coming first", but the truth there could very easily be a She-Ra movie that hits the ground running and then the creative team could work backwards to explain what came at an earlier point in time. Nobody is really willing to give that a try though.
I would also argue that headlining females are needed more than ever to give momentum to the success of stuff like Brave and Hunger Games, thereby hopefully inspiring change, instead of just the standard female supporting character.
Good points, Tallstar. I think a lot of arguments focus on looking back at what was, as opposed to what is to be. If folks can get rid of this "Big C", it will make for better relations in the fan/collector community. MOTUC is a NEW toy line, driven by new ideas, and new marketing, and hopefully more progressive thinking. With that said, with the statement that MOTUC is all-encompassing, ALL fans should maintain open minds to what is to come, and the powers that be should stand by their word and continue driving the effort of making MOTUC truly all-encompassing.
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Well, it goes beyond that. We'll see more things like HG and Brave and Legend of Korra if their toys sell. I saw Winx Club came back too (Mattel's dolls were so much nicer) and those reportedly outsell Barbie in a couple of European countries.
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Nobody is willing to try that because if someone said "Hey there's a new She-Ra movie coming out." The FIRST thing anyone would say in response was "Wha? How did I miss the He-Man one that obviously came first?" He-Man IS more widely popular and well known than She-Ra, and if you want to build a franchise then best chance for success is to start from the beginning and build off whatever is most popular.
Now, as for Teela VS. She-Ra, I don't see how there's even a debate as to who the leading lady is. I love Teela, heck, I'm not sure, but I might even like her better than She-Ra (eh, I guess it's a tie), but She-Ra has THE POWER. Bam. That's it. End of story. Teela's an awesome badass who has a very important role to play in the mythos, but she's not the chosen one the prophecies spoke of. That's Adora/She-Ra.
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This is why there IS a "Leading Lady" debate: She-Ra headed up her own brand for 4 years--cartoons, books, magazines, toys, but Teela is MOTU's leading lady and is seen in almost every MOTU canon automatically. She-Ra's main problem is that we barely see her in any non-POP media. Even with this mini-comic, we don't know if The Ra will be featured inside. Unless it's POP-centric or any new creator try something different, Teela is probably going to get featured for sure.
She-Ra is more powerful and is a "bigger character", but Teela is almost sure to be featured in every MOTU canon you can name.
Now everybody just wait up a minute here! Where is The Rainbow Warrior in all of this? What exactly IS Marlena up to during this Second Ultimate Battleground?? And what color did she dye HER hair?...
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Filmation Sub top 5 wants: Sea Hawk - Huntara - Red Knight - Vultak - Dylamug
Small creatures that need to happen: Kowl - Imp - Lookee - 3 main twiggets
That would be awesome, gbagok! I would love to see one of those one day (hint, hint...)
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You guys can debate it all you want and call it whatever you like, but the fact is that even though she had her own show, She-Ra is just a supporting character (albeit a very important one) in the MOTU story.
If she was so far and away THE Leading Lady, there would be no debate re: Teela.
She-Ra and her cast of characters are simply never going to be as POPular (heh!) as the boys that came before.
Not a flame, just a fact.
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Ah.... thanks for that catch; sadly I forgot to keep one of my TP He-Mans' in my studio and haven't read the first mini...I thought this at first too, but since in Part 1 Teela is already the Sorceress, then you'd THINK that the events of this issue take place after that.
As for She-Ra not being on the cover, I always thought she was there at the second Battleground myself.
Attachment 77082
I bet she'll be there on the inside. It'd be cool to see a peek at some other Rebellion characters too. Just so we start to know who crossed over with her. It seems like Frosta might be a good bet.
(I'll guess I'll have to figure another way now.....
BTW: Great piece of work there!
*cough cough opinion cough cough*
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In a broad sense, yes definitely, but not to every fan. With that said, war, Teela!
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The strip came before Filmation is what I'm saying.
Speaking as someone who stumbles upon a ton a comments on the subject, it seems to me the bulk of the all-important casual He-Man and She-Ra crowd don't give a toss about how the movies come to them so long as they get made. Chronolgy is rarely ever a hot topic issue for these folks.
Typically I see postings along the lines of: "Someone needs to make a She-Ra movie!", or if there is a rumored He-Man movie in development: "Is She-Ra going to be in it?" It's never really something like: "They have to go in order!!!"... LOL
While I agree that some feathers would be ruffled within the hardcore community if POP arrived on the scene first and that the some of the general public/media would question: "What about He-Man?", with the latter group I don't think the overall commentary would manifest in a negative/detrimental way. But I digress...
Personally I don't think a live-action She-Ra bombing or underperfoming at the box office would negatively impact MOTU. (i.e. studios being uninterested in giving MOTU a go.) The reverse is probably true, though. Hell, MOTU has not met expectations numerous times ('87 movie, NA, MYP) and Mattel is still trying to bank on its former glory. You have to ask yourself if maybe She-Ra is just the shot in the arm that the franchise needs to spice things up.
Last edited by Tallstar; July 10, 2012 at 05:26am.
You are right Big Country, oppinions like the ones you hold and expres will continue to be debated, discussed and challanged when you try to generalise them as facts. I appreciate they are your personal truths and take on things, however others see it very differently. She-Ra has never been shown as a supporting character in any of her appearances in official brand media, ever! She has never been a side kick to He-Man, not once. They were always presented as equals when they were together. Please feel free to find and post evdience to the contrary, we know there is plenty of evidence out there that shows she is his equal when they have interacted. What you claim to be fact is actually just your oppinion, just like anything we say here.
She-Ra is far and away the leading lady of the brand. I don't remember 93 episodes of Teela and the Mystresses of the Universe, I don't recall 5 book series in english, and more in other languages telling tails of Teela's adventures. I don't remember around 30 Teela comics from different publishers around the world. I don't remember Teela magazines or Teela story annuals, I don't remember recently seeing Teela T-Shirts, Birthday cards, notelets, cups, PJ's, Calanders, Socks, Key Rings or Costumes over the past two years....why because Teela does not exist in the public consciousness in the same way She-Ra does. Thats why she gets such merchandise, she has always been viewed as the Iconic Female Heroine from MOTU. Teela has gotten a paper figure and glass so I suppose things may be starting to change on that front.
She-Ra has never been presented to the public as a support character in the media that has included or focused on her. Teela may have been around from the beginning but she was never afforded the level of power and importance that She-Ra was afforded. I like Teela, but as the support character she was always shown to be. To further this point I would like to draw you to the press statement released by both Mattel and Classic Media last year. Both identified She-Ra as "The Heroic lead female character in the Masters of the Universe franchise". This is from the Horse's Mouth, their words not mine!
"She-Ra, also known as Princess Adora, is the twin sister of He-Man® (Prince Adam®) and the
lead heroine in the Masters of the Universe® franchise." http://www.classicmedia.tv/SheRaPRelease081710small.pdf
You don't really have a vaild argument on your personal oppinion of She-Ra's status within the brand until Mattel makes another statement saying Teela is now the heroic lead female character in the Masters of the Universe franchise (which is everything all in MOTU, POP, POG, 2K,NA & MOTUC). Untill that happens the lead female spot continues to be officially occupied by She-Ra, The Princess of Power & Most Powerful Woman in the Universe......not a flame, just a fact!
Sometimes when hearing these arguments it like saying Lois Lane is more important and prominent in DC than Wonder Woman. Yes she is a vital and important part of Superman's Personal story. But, Diana is also important to his personal story, but she is also a member of the big three leading DC characters...Lois Lane is not, swhe is a supporting character when al is said and done, which crosses over to the She-Ra argument. Teela is very important to He-Man's personal story and was Robin to his batman, but She-Ra is also important to He-Man's personal story, while also presented as the co leader of ther franchise, something Teela has never achieved even in the early days.
Last edited by Angel-T; July 10, 2012 at 06:19am.
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What are you talking about? Most people agree that story-wise MYP MOTU cartoon is by far the best one of the shows... The failure was caused by the figure ratio in the cases (variants, etc), so that led to the cancellation of the show.
What I meant was that Mattel didn't attain the level of profits they were expecting, and those entertainment ventures failed to connect with casual/new audiences on a large scale. Regardless of what the reasons were behind the failed attempts, the point I was trying to make is that Mattel doesn't stigmatize the MOTU property like they do with She-Ra/POP. With POP, there's just this general sentiment of "it didn't match MOTU in the 80s. No need to revisit it."
I don't think it's done with the intention of stigmatizing POP. I think it's just a matter of numbers and how that appears to others. MOTU and POP are sibling properties, no jokes intended. POP as a brand didn't perform as well as MOTU in the 80s. Then in recent years with the BCI DVD sets, POP didn't perform as well as MOTU. I know it's a unfair to us as fans when we see MOTU fall short so POP is guilty by association, so POP never gets a shot at a reboot or new franchise attempt. But, I wouldn't throw in the towel. Just because it's not happening right now doesn't mean it won't happen eventually.
I think it part of the problem is always looking to MOTU to aid POP. So I think it would be better for POP fans to focus less on creating POP awareness within the MOTUC brand and discussion forums.
Instead, POP fans may want to focus more on the stand-alone POP forum where you can bring activity and attention to what has already existed, while proposing new ideas, concepts, ways to do things, etc, that would bring the POP brand to life as its own thing. IMO, that's what the brand really needs.
POP is an amazing property. And if a whole new outpouring of support sprang up around the original property, helping to separate itself from MOTUC and the MOTU strings of the past, I think it would help POP spring forth as its own thing with a lot of excellent possibilities!
I know there are people here saying "show me POP can't make it on its own.". I really don't think it will get the chance. Girl shows just aren't as prevelant on tv as boy shows. It sucks, I agree, but this is a fact. Could it do well? Maybe. I just don't see it working... And while he-man goes unchanged, whatever you end up getting of She-Ra WILL be different. Would you be able accept that? Based on former statements by Tallstar and others, they want the 80s series back with little to no changes. THAT will never happen as the world has become a darker and more cynical place.
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A majority does not necessitate the agreement of every fan...just a majority.
I never said She-Ra wasn't important. I'm simply saying that the lead from a property that is less property cannot clearly be called the Leading Lady over a core character from the Flagship. No matter what Mattel "says", Teela is being given more of everything in this series...except maybe a rainbow colored winged unicorn...and she wouldn't want one of those, anyway!!You are right Big Country, oppinions like the ones you hold and expres will continue to be debated, discussed and challanged when you try to generalise them as facts. I appreciate they are your personal truths and take on things, however others see it very differently. She-Ra has never been shown as a supporting character in any of her appearances in official brand media, ever! She has never been a side kick to He-Man, not once. They were always presented as equals when they were together. Please feel free to find and post evdience to the contrary, we know there is plenty of evidence out there that shows she is his equal when they have interacted. What you claim to be fact is actually just your oppinion, just like anything we say here.
She-Ra IS a supporting character in the MOTU story. She's the head chica in the POP story, but NOT the events on Eternia, so in the MOTU mythos as a whole...supporting character. One does not have to be a sidekick to be a supporting character.
She-Ra is far and away the leading lady of the brand. I don't remember 93 episodes of Teela and the Mystresses Nope, Teela was busy being the head lady on the flagship property of the mythos. She didn't need to have a leading role in an add-on that tried to capitalize on the success of the Flagship while being a Barbie/MOTU hybrid.of the Universe, I don't recall 5 book series in english, and more in other languages telling tails of Teela's adventures. I don't remember around 30 Teela comics from different publishers around the world. I don't remember Teela magazines or Teela story annuals, I don't remember recently seeing Teela T-Shirts, Birthday cards, notelets, cups, PJ's, Calanders, Socks, Key Rings or Costumes over the past two years....why because Teela does not exist in the public consciousness in the same way She-Ra does. Thats why she gets such merchandise, she has always been viewed as the Iconic Female Heroine from MOTU. Teela has gotten a paper figure and glass so I suppose things may be starting to change on that front.
I don't remember seeing She-Ra in a leading role in any MOTU (NOT POP, there IS a difference) media, ever.
She-Ra has never been presented to the public as a support character in the media that has included or focused on her. Teela may have been around from the beginning but she was never afforded the level of power and importance that She-Ra was afforded. You mean like defending Castle Grayskull, as opposed to leading a rebellion on a planet far far away from what mattered to MOTU's central story, the Power of Grayskull?I like Teela, but as the support character she was always shown to be. To further this point I would like to draw you to the press statement released by both Mattel and Classic Media last year. Both identified She-Ra as "The Heroic lead female character in the Masters of the Universe franchise". This is from the Horse's Mouth, their words not mine!
Their words and actions are at odds... Actions are what matter.
"She-Ra, also known as Princess Adora, is the twin sister of He-Man® (Prince Adam®) and the
lead heroine in the Masters of the Universe® franchise." http://www.classicmedia.tv/SheRaPRelease081710small.pdf
You don't really have a vaild argument on your personal oppinion of She-Ra's status within the brand until Mattel makes another statement saying Teela is now the heroic lead female character in the Masters of the Universe franchise (which is everything all in MOTU, POP, POG, 2K,NA & MOTUC). Untill that happens the lead female spot continues to be officially occupied by She-Ra, The Princess of Power & Most Powerful Woman in the Universe......not a flame, just a fact!
I don't have to see Mattel make a label for Teela. I see several figures in the new line, more appearances in new media, and a female character that is from a more relevant (take that however you like) franchise.
Sometimes when hearing these arguments it like saying Lois Lane is more important and prominent in DC than Wonder Woman. Yes she is a vital and important part of Superman's Personal story. But, Diana is also important to his personal story, but she is also a member of the big three leading DC characters...Lois Lane is not, swhe is a supporting character when al is said and done, which crosses over to the She-Ra argument. Teela is very important to He-Man's personal story and was Robin to his batman, but She-Ra is also important to He-Man's personal story, while also presented as the co leader of ther franchise, something Teela has never achieved even in the early days.
Agreed...but until there's a groundswell of POP support (the likes of which we've never seen), it'll continue to be a secondary property and these debated will continue.I don't think it's done with the intention of stigmatizing POP. I think it's just a matter of numbers and how that appears to others. MOTU and POP are sibling properties, no jokes intended. POP as a brand didn't perform as well as MOTU in the 80s. Then in recent years with the BCI DVD sets, POP didn't perform as well as MOTU.
I think it part of the problem is always looking to MOTU to aid POP. So I think it would be better for POP fans to focus less on creating POP awareness within the MOTUC brand and discussion forums.
POP is an amazing property. And if a whole new outpouring of support sprang up around the original property, helping to separate itself from MOTUC and the MOTU strings of the past, I think it would help POP spring forth as its own thing with a lot of excellent possibilities!
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Not a fact, not even close. MOST people know MOTU from the cartoon, not the toy lines. And the one question both male and female asked me when the 2002 line came out, or when they saw the new He-Man on my desk in the office, was not about Teela, but about if they made She-Ra. Most people out in the real world likely aren't aware that it was two separate shows; not surprising as the second half of what we think of as the second season of He-Man aired alongside the first season of She-Ra as the "Power Huor" in many, if not most, markets. Ask the average Joe on the street and the two characters he is most likely to be able to name are the two that appeared in the titles.
The folks who constantly look down their noses as POP need to understand that their viewpoint isn't the one the general public has. The show was what brought the majority of people into He-Man (it was quite popular among college students at the time, folks who never touched an action figure, or would admit to doing so). And it was that which left the pop culture imprint more than anything else, meaning MOTU to Joe Average is the tale of He-Man and She-Ra, because that is what they remember best.
That said, count me among those who don't want a She-Ra separate in any way from He-Man, any more than I want He-Man without his sister. The tale of He-Man finding his long lost sister is TOO iconic, too basic a part of the mythos. It actually made Adora an unparalleled event in the story, something I wouldn't want to take away from her. There's certain aspects of a legend that are core to its popularity, to the connection it makes with the audience, and I feel that the search for Adora by He-Man/Adam is at that level. The feeling I got, that chill down my spine when Adora discovered He-Man was her brother and raised the sword for the first time, that' something I won't give up here. That was an iconic moment, and, even if the circumstances change somewhat, it still needs to be part of the story.
I've said it ad nauseum, but I'll keep saying it 'til the day I am no more: without BOTH He-Man and She-Ra together, you have only half a story.
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It still intrigues me that She-Ra's DC vs MOTU 2 Pak partner was a second rate Supergirl rather than DC's big female property Wonder Woman. Would Teela have partnered off against WW?
But it does say something that She-Ra got a 2 pak and surprisingly if you ask me Teela did not.
Perhaps not a rainbow coloured winged unicorn ... but I do seem to recall a significant amount of vintage artwork that shows Teela does associate with a Palomino coloured wingless unicorn.No matter what Mattel "says", Teela is being given more of everything in this series...except maybe a rainbow colored winged unicorn...and she wouldn't want one of those, anyway!!
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I'm starting to rethink this whole argument. She-Ra and her mythos will always be relegated to second tier by the powers that be, but she will still be more recognizable than Teela (whichever hair-color for the day-which by the way was brunette in the movie--color #3) who despite her power-ups will always be He-Man's princess in peril by those same powers that be. No amount of I'm right and you're wrong will ever change anybody's opinion on this matter. It's true She-Ra is not on the cover, but despite this being called the second ultimate Battleground, this is far from the end of the MOTU/POP/MOTUC/NA/whatever story which culminates in the battle between the twins and Horde Prime...I kind of throw all the continuities into a blender and mix it all together. In these mini comics SHe-Ra has been shown to join in a panel or 2 with the others in battle...In Secret of the Sword, Teela's big thing was to say something to the effect of "I didn't know you had a sister"--hardly an iconic moment if you really think about it. So on the way, characters are gonna get the shaft as far as representation. Personally, if I were a character, I would want to keep out of the spotlight as much as possible because some of this writing is completely ridiculous (for example Heman's "I know you will make a great sorceress. And. uh, I like what you've done with your hair"-- I mean seriously, Eternia's going all to pot and He-man's like "Gurl, you're hair is fierce!"--such a complete out of nowhere phrase. I hope there is more POP presence in the last mini, but I won't hold my breath for it. Who knows, by the end of the mini, Teela will put on her pepto-pink outfit and satisfy those NA fans who've been wanting some sign that they are still being acknowledged!
Holding out for Castaspella, Angella, Double Trouble and Entrapta!!!
Not for MOTU. The Filmation canon might have intended it to be that way, but Mattel's marketing in the 80's thwarted that idea big time.
Thanks to the way Mattel marketed the brands and largely kept them apart in America with a few exceptions, MOTU was a boy's club and POP was for girls...we still see the fallout from that to this day whenever POP characters are revealed. The vintage toyline canon never had She-Ra in any mini-comics or Golden Books nor made any references to her or the Rebels. MYP never got to her; when they showed the Horde, there are no evil POP characters among them. New Adventures chose one old school character to use and it was Teela. The 1987 movie had Teela in it and didn't use She-Ra, who was designed.
BATMAN of all characters didn't get a MOTUC 2 pack and he's DC's most popular character. Mattel probably didn't get to Teela vs Wonder Woman. Remember, Mattel is the company that likes to spread the line out instead of releasing heavy hitters all at once.
I think female versions of the main male character was the theme in the Supergirl vs She-Ra two packs.
Whiplash has a thread about "Charger the unicorn" in his sig!Perhaps not a rainbow coloured winged unicorn ... but I do seem to recall a significant amount of vintage artwork that shows Teela does associate with a Palomino coloured wingless unicorn.
- - - Updated - - -
I think chronology in movies is important, just understated. I think fans want He-Man to fight Skeletor in the first movie, saving later characters like She-Ra, Hordak and King Hsss for sequels. You have to explain to the casual audience who the main characters are and establish their world before the "reveal characters" like She-Ra "I have a sister?" or Hordak "Skeletor had a master?" show up to alter that established world.
You could make a "day in the life" movie adventure with He-Man and She-Ra against Skeletor, King Hsss, Hordak or Flogg, but that's a ton of backstory for alot of characters, places and worlds.
Last edited by MegaGearMax; July 10, 2012 at 10:36am.
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