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Thread: Fairness in the Factions

  1. #126
    Gimme Granita! Scorpia's Avatar
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    It felt a lot more fair for sure. However, I still imagine we'll see at least one vintage MOTU reveal for every big show reveal (the next being NYCC and then again at NYTF - including vintage MOTU Horde and Snake Men). I hope they balance that out with more 'faction love' from POP, Filmation and NA.

  2. #127
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
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    With the SDCC and Powercon reveals, I don't have as much of an issue with their diversity as I do their choices in faction representation. I really like Octavia for instance, but even within the PoP Filmation subset, there are at least three figures that should have been made before her in my opinion. Assuming they only make one figure a year that is specifically PoP Filmation, that means it'll be four years from now at best before we get those top three. With some of these smaller factions, I think we've long passed the time to be dealing from the bottom (or even upper middle in the case of Octavia) of the deck. We have got to take care of the top priorities first at this point.

    I feel the exact same way about Netossa (especially so), Fang Man, and Karatti.
    Last edited by Sword2Blanket; October 3, 2012 at 09:33am.

  3. #128
    Our Universe a Sunder! Veebs's Avatar
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    I am a huge fan of just about every MOTU/PoP incarnation, so when I look at what was revealed between SDCC and PC, I think 2013 is striking that perfect balance of character selection that we have been told this line is about for a long time. Balance on the shelf is so important to me, I really hope that we will not be left wanting when all is said and done. Sure, there is still some catching up to do with PoP, NA and FilMation due to the scarcity of those groups at the front of the line, but 2013 is dynamite for me so far.

    I hope we can still get several more years of such a robust variety, I am actually not looking forward to an all heavy-hitter year as I would what we are getting now.
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  4. #129
    HeroicUniter PrinceAdam101's Avatar
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    The heavy-hitter years are an unfortunate reality, I think. But at least we will get as many of the essentials as we can!

    Scott has done a GREAT job planning 2013 so far!

    My fingers are crossed for: Blade, Gwildor, Mantenna, Scorpia, Sea Hawk, Lizard Man, Castaspella, Peekablue, Angella, Entrapta, Mini-Comics Garn, Rana, Josh, & Prince Dakon, Vultak, Huntara, Delora, Shokoti, Melaktha, and a proper FILMATION TEELA. Among many others!!!
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  5. #130
    Evil Collapsing Robot! Zodach's Avatar
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    2014 should be full of as many heavy hitters as possible. The line is going to need it to survive.

  6. #131
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    2014 should be full of as many heavy hitters as possible. The line is going to need it to survive.
    I'll be pleasantly surprised if the MOTUC line survives 2013.

    I wish with all my heart that it will suvive for at least 3 more years, but with all that's going on quality-wise and customers service wise, I really have some doubts...

  7. #132
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veebs View Post
    I hope we can still get several more years of such a robust variety, I am actually not looking forward to an all heavy-hitter year as I would what we are getting now.
    I certainly respect your opinion Veebs, and those that share it, I just don't really understand it. Does this come from an optimism that the line is going to last for 4+ more years, or are you genuinely ok with getting some of the more obscure characters at the cost of possibly never having some of the heavy hitters (well, "heavy hitters" relative to their faction)?

  8. #133
    FILMATION - Yeah! csc0709's Avatar
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    I think the characters that appeared regularly in the cartoons or other media should be top priority, not whether they had a vintage figure or not. For example, Scorpia is a no brainer and she be at the top of the list as would characters like Modulok, Madame Razz, Tung Lashor, Two-Bad, Mantenna, Glimmer, Angella, Castaspella etc. However, characters like Ninjor, Rio Blast, Extendar, Blast Attack etc. should probably take a back seat. Most of those characters require a lot of tooling and were not seen in the cartoons. It'll be great to revisit those characters if the line proves strong enough, and even though they had vintage figures, they're just not high priority for me.

  9. #134
    Our Universe a Sunder! Veebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword2Blanket View Post
    I certainly respect your opinion Veebs, and those that share it, I just don't really understand it. Does this come from an optimism that the line is going to last for 4+ more years, or are you genuinely ok with getting some of the more obscure characters at the cost of possibly never having some of the heavy hitters (well, "heavy hitters" relative to their faction)?
    I want everyone and my want for more balance even in 2014 stems from wanting to not shoot 2015 and beyond in the foot. I really do not think that price is the primary issue for people not subbing. It is mostly QC, issues with DR and character selection. I see mostly positive vibes from people about the 2013 line-up now, even more so than where we were at last year with the revealed 2012 line up. I think if Mattel can finally resolve the DR stuff and make sure that with the new price point QC is in check, people can be excited again, especially if a desirable and robust line up can be shown at SDCC next year for Q1 2014. Heavy hitters are a tool that they can use to sell more subs, I do not think they need to use them all up in one year though. Now, if this new execution to get out more figures that will be revealed at Toy Fair will help mitigate not getting more of the non-heavy hitters, then that is different.

    I might be getting a little optimistic, but I think this line has longer legs than what was being discussed around SDCC time. I have had discussions with some people and seems be the case. Castle Grayskull, and new plan for Toy Fair and the line up for 2013 just doesn't feel like the winding down to me. I have collected a lot of lines that have come and gone and this feels different. Plus, there is movie buzz happening now, it might be good to keep the fan interaction with MOTU going as long as possible.

    So yes, I want the heavy and unsung hitters alike, but I think we can still have balance for at least a few more years. I think MOTU and the fans (if we get some resolution on the aforementioned issues) have it in them. MOTU is going to live on in some fashion, I believe this 100%. IF Classics does take a nasty turn for the worse and 2014 sells horribly and 2015 will only have a few items and no sub, some heavy hitters will be easier to push for that. If 2014 sells great and 2015 is then able to go into a sub, then what will be left to "make the sale"?
    Last edited by Veebs; October 3, 2012 at 11:51am.
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  10. #135
    Evil Collapsing Robot! Zodach's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that management is going to approve another full year of figures based on the plummeting subscription sales and I really don't expect Mattel to fix any of the quality control or Digital River concerns. I would like them to, but how long has Scott been promising the "my subscription" page will be up and running? I would rather go out with a bang then keep things going as-is in hopes that Mattel will do better than they have for the last 4 years.

  11. #136
    Heroic Rock Warrior jdscissorhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csc0709 View Post
    I think the characters that appeared regularly in the cartoons or other media should be top priority, not whether they had a vintage figure or not. For example, Scorpia is a no brainer and she be at the top of the list as would characters like Modulok, Madame Razz, Tung Lashor, Two-Bad, Mantenna, Glimmer, Angella, Castaspella etc. However, characters like Ninjor, Rio Blast, Extendar, Blast Attack etc. should probably take a back seat. Most of those characters require a lot of tooling and were not seen in the cartoons. It'll be great to revisit those characters if the line proves strong enough, and even though they had vintage figures, they're just not high priority for me.
    Agreed! Filmation characters like Scorpia or Madame Razz (and many others!) deserve a slot.

    Characters like Ninjor or Blast Attack might make cool MOTUC figures but I agree that they should be done only once the core members of every factions are complete. Finish off the main factions' core members (Great Rebellion, Horde, Snake Men, Space Mutants, Galactic Guardians), give us some Filmation fan favourites (Lizard Man, Icer, Sea Hawk...) and then if there's still some live in the line (hopefully by 2015, fingers crossed!) make Ninjor, Blast Attack, Dragstor, Gwildor and everyone else...

  12. #137
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
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    I can understand where you're coming from with that line of thinking, Veebs. I felt that way myself a year or two ago. Quite frankly, I think they should have went more that route from the very beginning. Unfortunately, they didn't and now we're left with only the dregs of the vintage Motu line (the lifeblood of Motuc I'm afraid) and nearly all of PoP and NA (and Filmation as well, but that was due to circumstances beyond anyone's control moreso than poor planning). Honestly, at this point I don't even think holding back is a viable strategy. Vintage Motu doesn't really have anything left to be considered a "hold out to sell subscriptions" item and PoP and NA fans are over a barrel anyway, just as they have been since the beginning. Those of us still around at this point are in it for the long run until Mattel makes buying these toys unbearable.

    Eventually you reach a point where holding out is not going to accomplish anything in terms of sales. If anything, it'll be counterproductive. I don't think we'll ever have a resurgence in numbers, regardless of the line up, and the numbers are only going to generally diminish. At that point it seems that it'd be best to swap from the "hold out as long as possible" model to the "blaze of glory" model. Give the people that are still around what they want most, from top to bottom, as fast as possible before it's all said and done. It'd take several full years (2014-16) just to do that most likely. Personally, I think it's a huge stretch to imagine the line lasting to 2016. From now til then would be as long as the line has currently lasted, but without the help of the franchise's strongest characters.

  13. #138
    We can choose these? Matthew K's Avatar
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    I love the mix the line has been so far and wish for it to continue in 2014 like this. I don't really care as much about the remaining vintage figures from MOTU as much as I want PoP and Filmation characters.

  14. #139
    Heroic Warrior Swanmarsh's Avatar
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    My take is that Octavia was an inspired choice because she is a necessary addition to the line but not as integral to the story as Scorpia or Razz. I have every confidence Scorpia will be made, and Madame Razz also, but keeping them as a hook for potentially another year in 2014 would seem to make good marketing sense.

    Sadly I have to say I disagree with the comments relegating Ninjor and Blast Attak to the distant future. Ninjor is an excellent figure to fit into 2013 or 2014 as he requires very little new tooling: 2 heads (mask on and off) and a soft plastic vest. He is a cheap fit in what will almost inevitably be a time of high-tool figures.

    Blast Attak is just absolutely cool and I desperately want him.

    I think fans of fairness to factions should also have sympathy on those of us who are fans of some of the lesser known and lesser loved vintage MOTU guys just like Ninjor and Blast Attak. After all, these characters get much less love than Glimmer, Frosta, Angella, even NA etc.
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  15. #140
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanmarsh View Post
    My take is that Octavia was an inspired choice because she is a necessary addition to the line but not as integral to the story as Scorpia or Razz. I have every confidence Scorpia will be made, and Madame Razz also, but keeping them as a hook for potentially another year in 2014 would seem to make good marketing sense.
    I guess I'm just not as optimistic as you guys. I think we've got a lot more hooks left than years. Honestly, I'm thinking any character at this point is going to be a hook for a PoP or Filmation fan, anyway. If they've held out for this long on the meager scraps we've been thrown, I don't think these people need a shiny lure to tempt them into a sub. Those people are just going to hold out as long as they can stand to. I think there's a greater chance of losing people to hassle/cost vs. rewards at this point. When it comes time to sub again for 2014, it's possible that some may look at Netossa and Octavia and think "these are truly great, but it's getting to the point that I don't know that they were worth the money/DR problems/QC problems/etc." I simply think it would be harder to get to that low point if they were holding Glimmer in one hand and Madame Razz in the other.

  16. #141
    Gimme Granita! Scorpia's Avatar
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    I think the problem is that there are just so many GR females to get to. The Great Rebellion are often compared to the Snake Men in a 'we've only got four Snake Men! Look at how many POP figures there are!' kinda way. The difference is that there are only five vintage Snake Men (six if you count Kobra Kahn and eight if you count the army builder warriors), whereas there are about fourteen Great Rebellion characters in the toyline alone.

    Now that Filmation is on the table, we're getting Octavia as we did Shadow Weaver, which is GREAT. I am so excited about that, but I worry that some of the toyline characters may get neglected because the 'Holy Grail' has now been found (i.e. Filmation). I REALLY want Scorpia, but I also want Spinnerella. I desperately want Madame Razz, but I also want Peekablue. And Sea Hawk? I really want him AND Flutterina.

    I guess with so few available slots going to female characters (and the likes of Shokoti and Huntara are clamouring for places), we'll have to a) be very patient and b) hope and pray TG pulls out the stops if we are to have a 'full' Rebellion.

  17. #142
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    Fairness in the Factions... What could have been...

    I'll explain what I did first, and then listed below I will show who we would now have that we don't, and who we wouldn't have that we currently do, if there had been a completely unbiased production of figures in all the factions.

    So I started with the different factions: Heroic Warriors, Evil Warriors, 200X, Great Rebellion, Horde, Space Mutants, Galactic Guardians, Snake-Men, Concept, Filmation, MYP, Comics, and Movies.

    Since I can't know what concept figures have yet to be produced, and filmation, MYP, and comics have virtually unlimited figures to choose from, I only used the figures that have already been produced.

    I then added up the number of figures that were produced in each year (including SS and FFM as three figures each).

    I took all of the figures that were produced in order, and if figures had not been produced, I left them in the order listed here on the .org.

    The movie line I did based on most re-use to least re-use (Blade, Saurod, Gwildor).

    So.... HOW DID WE END UP???

    Heroic Warriors: He-Man; Stratos; Zodac; Man-At-Arms; Teela; King Randor; Moss Man; Orko;

    But we would NOT have: Prince Adam; Roboto; Buzz-Off; Sy-Klone; Man-E-Faces; Snout Spout; Sorceress; Fisto; Mekaneck; Ram-Man; Champ Clamp

    The Great Rebellion: She-Ra; Bow; Frosta; Netossa; Angella; Castaspella; Glimmer

    Galactic Guardians: Flipshot; Hydron; Kayo, Nocturna; Vizor; Artilla

    Evil Warrios: Beast Man; Skeletor; Faker; Mer-Man; Tri-Klops; Webstor; Scare Glow; Trap Jaw;

    But we would NOT have: Evil-Lyn; Whiplash; Clawful; Stinkor; Spikor; Jitsu

    The Horde: Hordak; Grizzlor; Catra; Leech; Mosquitor; Mantenna; Modulok

    Space Mutants: Optikk; Slush Head; Karattie; Flogg; Hoove; Lizor; Butt Head

    Snake Men: King Hiss; Kobra Kahn; Rattlor; Snake Face; Tung Lashor; Blast Attack

    200X*: Zodak; Keldor; Battleground Evil-Lyn; King Hiss; Prince Adam; Sorceress; Beast Man

    Filmation: Adora; Queen Marlena; Shadow Weaver; Horde Prime; King Randor

    MYP: King Grayskull; Count Marzo; Chief Carnivus; Faceless One; Dekker

    comics: Goddess; Preternia Disguise He-Man; Battleground Teela; TOD Sorceress

    Concept: He-Ro; Wun-Dar; Demo-Man; Vikor; Vykron; Star Sisters; Fighting Foe Men

    And all the movie characters and giants so far.

    *200X was the only one I specifically adjusted to pick characters that had a DRASTIC character change versus simply a physique change. However, when the ones that I felt had this had been used up, I just picked the first one on the list, hence Beast Man being on there.

    So what do you think? Would you be happier with this equal distribution? Are you happy to see that this disaster was avoided?
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  18. #143
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    The thing to remember about Fairness in the Factions is that the figures contribute parts that eventually get used by other figures in the future. The original vintage 8 back characters were very easy to produce because of reusing the barbarian, furry character and Evil Warrior bucks, which still gives us figures four years later. Teela's parts gave us two Evil-Lyn figures and the Goddess. She-Ra's parts continue to yield new POP characters. New Adventures has to thank that Trap Jaw/Man-E-Faces/Roboto buck. Even He-Ro's boots have seen a few more uses.

    This isn't absolute though. I think once Catra had been established, we could have started to see more regular POP characters than we were seeing.

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
    MegaGearMax's 200X/MYP Screen Grabs

    Oo-Larr • Sagitar • Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn • 200X Prince Adam • 200X Sorceress • Ninjor • Tung Lashor • Sssqueeze • Angella • Perfuma • Mermista • Evilseed (MYP)

  19. #144
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    I understand the buck part of it, which is why I kept it in the order they were produced. There are a few new unique sculpts in my list, but we also lost some unique sculpts too, so I view it as a wash on cost to produce more variety in the factions.

    I just wonder, knowing we'd have to lose some characters to include others and, based on the order we received them, if people would be happy with the ones they would have lost for the ones they could have gained.
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  20. #145
    Let's get Crita in MOTUC! The All American's Avatar
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    I was talking to my friend earlier, and he commented how surprised he was that so many females have been released in this line. I told them that there has been a few, but not a lot compared to the vintage line.

    How does POP stack up to the vintage (let's say the vintage got the same worth in the releases).

    He-Man (She-Ra)
    Thunder Punch He-Man (Bubble Power She-Ra)
    TRU He-Man (TRU She-Ra)
    Skeletor (Catra)
    Teela (Bow)
    Mekaneck (Frosta)
    Queen Marlena (Shadow Weaver)
    Clamp Champ (Netossa)
    He-Ro, Eldor, Preternia Disguise He-Man (The Star Sisters)

    Swiftwind (Battle Cat)

    That's quite a skimpy list for entering year five of the line if that was vintage. Granted, POP isn't even close in the number of figs versus the vintage line and I'm not including the Horde (I consider them MOTU vintage since they were never released as POP), but there has been some lack of fairness in the factions.

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