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Thread: Toyguru Update on 2013 Subscriptions

  1. #326
    Heroic Warrior Delthaindia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    It's just made me tired. Honestly, I'm so TIRED
    agree pal. thats sighing. just sighing now.

    I think that is the kind of feelings a lot of us are experiencng right now. weariness and disappintment.
    this is a toy line and collect it should be fun and not be blackmailed. im not 9 years old anymore (if i was i would wuit this line two years ago)


    so what about nocturna in 2015 huh?




    huh?
    Last edited by Delthaindia; July 20, 2012 at 08:47am.
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  2. #327
    Honorable Wizard Loo-Kee's Avatar
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    I'm going to jump on the band wagon here with how I feel on this.

    I've been a subscriber since the very first year, but as time goes by, priority of certain things that need to be purchased change, i.e. a home. In the past year I've been actually trying to sell off more figures than I'm keeping whether they are characters I'm not crazy about, lack of space of just obscure characters that I look at and say ***!

    After realizing...or finally admitting that a single figure plus shipping can cost me a little over $40.00 a month with the sale rate on the secondary market sucking tremendously (sometimes I can't even get rid of figures for the 20.00 which means i lose money on the shipping and tax I was charged too), it just isn't worth it anymore. December 2012 will be the last time I receive a sub on my doorstep. If I had limitless funds, I would continue this line without a doubt, but with future purchases for "life" itself/investments being the priority now, I will no longer be able to continue a sub. 500-600$ a year will no longer be doable.

    I will try to purchase 2013 figures here on the org from members I know, and if not, I might not have any other choice but ebay.

    I really do hope the line continues, as there are many characters that I have been waiting for for some time now that have yet to be released.

    Here's hoping the MOTUC line can continue, for everyone's sake.

    Thanks for allowing me to share my feelings.
    Last edited by Loo-Kee; July 20, 2012 at 08:44am.

  3. #328
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Demand hasn't trickled away, people are just sick of dealing with DR and Mattel's **** ups. No one wants to lock into a sub and be forced to get figures that they have zero interest in. I apologize to PoP fans but I believe the star sisters 3 pack and now the fighting foe men are HUGE reasons why people don't want to sub. it isn't even about CHERRY picking, it's about having zero connection and care about these obscure characters, not to mention the EXTREMELY disappointing 30th line. People are hurt buy the blind buy too.

    Also, the orignal model wasn't sub based, and it did GREAT, this sub only model hurts the consumer and thus hurts the line. Mr Neitlich dug himself into a deep hole and HE doesn't have enough fans to make a long enough ladder to get out of it.
    Ouch! I like the mental image of Scott stepping on the fans to get where he wants to go. Sums it up perfectly.

  4. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick4metal View Post
    Well after reading the latest on Matty it seems official that day-of is going away. The cherry pickers are dead. The sub numbers are way below minimum so subbers could be next. I have said this so many times that it is burned in my brain that I don't understand how a company makes it so hard to buy a product and then turns around and blames the customers for not buying. I have finally figured it out I think. Mattel wants to end this line. I think there is a movie and other media in the works and this line is in the way for a movie line or something else. I even remember Scott saying before that to start a new line every few years or so is Mattel's business goal to make you buy all the characters all over again. That's what it comes down to everyone. Even if we had the numbers I don't think it would matter and you would not be told the truth. After sitting back and taking it all in I am convinced the real reason is Mattel wants this line gone.
    This is very possible considering they've been pushing out the remaining "original wave" figures so quickly. Ram Man may very well be evidence of this. I predict Two Bad and Mantenna this year and maybe a few others to complete certain waves and factions, then it's adios to MOTUC.

  5. #330
    Casual Fan slackrguy's Avatar
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    Keep your head held high, krosfyah.

    I feel the wind is out of my sails a little bit too, but I don't feel that Scott is holding anything over my head. I went to bed after the statement was made and just took it as it is, and woke up to DOOOMMM! I have to laugh about it because I think only in a hobby like toy collecting can that happen with fan reactions.

    I love MOTUC because it seems like it could be ongoing. I collect no other lines than MOTUC and I planned out display space based on the expansion of the line. I hope it keeps going. Hell, if it is just 12 figures in 2014 that utilize extensive parts reuse then I'll still be happy.

    I said in another thread, if Mattel stops production on the license then I hope they license the license out to the 4H. It would be good for their studio, Matty could take a cut for license use, existing tool use, etc.. and instead of subscriptions the figures could just be offered at their online store. Even if the figure count dropped to 3-4 per year at least the line would still be moving forward with them.

    So, even if the wind is out of my sails at this very moment, I'm automatically looking for bright sides and silver linings.
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  6. #331
    Heroic Warrior Hosed Ovor's Avatar
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    Scott has been steering the ship toward the rocks for a while now so none of this should come as a surprise. There have been many warnings shouted to the captain which have gone unheeded or been drowned out by the voices of other passengers. Quite frankly, I don't see the captain taking ownership of his mistakes and taking the correct action to avoid the impending, senseless wreck looming before us.

  7. #332
    Double Trouble is MINE!! Shadow-Ra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mekaneckpain View Post
    This is very possible considering they've been pushing out the remaining "original wave" figures so quickly. Ram Man may very well be evidence of this. I predict Two Bad and Mantenna this year and maybe a few others to complete certain waves and factions, then it's adios to MOTUC.
    And that annoys me even further. POP and NA fans who have supported this line from the beginning only to get a mere handful of the figures they want. They have basically supported the Vintagists wants over their own for 5 years.
    "Skeletor to King Randor, Skeletor to King Randor, come in you Royal Boob!"

  8. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    This recent statement from Scott Neitlich, it hasn't made me angry, hasn't gotten my ire up or even ready to call foul. It's just made me tired. Honestly, I'm so TIRED, not of the toyline, but I won't lie, I've grown a bit apathetic about it over the last few hours. I think that if true, the lack of sub sales for matty's flagship line reflects that I'm not alone. I bought a sub. I considered it for a few days, then bought it just hours before Scott released his statement.

    I loved most of the new reveals and was looking forward in some way to all of them. At this moment, it doesn't matter much anymore. I mean it would be a bit of a let down to not get some of the guys I want, it's a let down to have others in the place of ones I want most. But I'm not going to moan about that fact. I'm just tired. I don't want to be insensitive or anything but I feel like through it all, we've had an abusive relationship with Mr. Neitlich. The abuse has gone both ways and I'm not going to get into who struck the first blow, but the truth is, it feels like he holds this line over our heads. We the fans have proven that MOTU is a viable property. since the commemorative line we've kept buying, enough to show MAttel that it can make money, honestly for the last 13 years or so we've bought whatever MOTU product was put out. There are more products coming out from non mattel sources that we will buy too. But now Mr. Neitlich decides the model that this successful line was built on isn’t good enough, now he tells us SUB OR DIE, and as much as I LOVE MOTU, and even though I bought a sub, with this attitude, I feel like DIE. The line is fun, getting the toys is fun, but the rest of the experience now just SUCKS.

    Look I buy these toys because they look great, I love the brand and I feel a bond to my childhood with it. I will ALWAYS love MOTU no matter who ****s it up. But now, even though I bought a sub PRIOR to this announcement, I feel like I’m being held at gunpoint. Funnily enough I’m being held at gunpoint AFTER I WILLINGLY gave my money away. Again, I’m not angry, I just feel...defeated.
    Collecting this line isn’t fun, not because of the toys, not because of the cost, not even because we have to buy them online. No collecting it isn’t fun anymore because the fans who made Mr. Neitlich look like a superstar in his bosses eyes are being held hostage and being blamed for the apparent drop in subs. The fault lies not with the fans, not with the brand not with the horsemen, but with Mr. Neitlich and Mattel. But to hear him tell it, if we lose this line it's our fault. No Mr. Neitlich, if you look like a failure to your bosses it's YOUR fault, we bought everything you threw at us, even stuff no one asked for was apparently a sell out, so to go from such a success to needing a thermometer to judge sales is the fault of the person who manages the brand, not the customers. They are letting you know how they feel with their wallets, because it's the ONLY language Mattel understands.

    We all know the problems, I’m not going to relist them, I just want to say thanks Mr Neitlich for making this experience SUCK.
    Look, I can't or won't defend everything Scott has ever said or done (just like I can't do that with anyone, including myself), but I think you have two assumptions here that are just false:

    "We the fans have proven that MOTU is a viable property. since the commemorative line we've kept buying, enough to show MAttel that it can make money, honestly for the last 13 years or so we've bought whatever MOTU product was put out. There are more products coming out from non mattel sources that we will buy too."

    If we've proven that Mattel can make money on the property, then why does it keep falling into danger. Sure, it lasts a couple of years each time from the burst of exuberance upon a line's initial release, but it has fizzled out (but not yet necessarily for Classics). Clearly, even with our buying, it has not yet been enough to prove that Mattel can make money long-term with this line. Now, I think that Mattel could do some things better, because for them to make real money, it is going to take a media push comparable to what is being done with Transformers or even G.I. Joe. But if people are not subscribing, we fans are proving only that we talk a lot but will not put up the funds when it comes down to the wire.

    "But now Mr. Neitlich decides the model that this successful line was built on isn’t good enough, now he tells us SUB OR DIE"
    How in the world do we know that this is Scott's decision. I can almost guarantee, for a fact, that it's not. The money people see sales and costs and tell him that the line will get canceled on an ongoing basis if the company cannot guarantee sales. It is as simple as that, and Scott has to pass on that information accordingly.

    There are a ton of things Mattel should have done by now to make the buying process more enjoyable (how about replacing DR, for one). But if interest in MOTU does not currently have enough support for a retail line, you better believe that to make the figures affordable at all, the company has to go with the cheapest shipping, handling, and ordering system available. (Although why Matty can't do it itself is beyond me).

    As a fan, I feel your frustration. In my mind, Matty should use MOTUC as a loss leader. Keep turning out the figures at a breakeven rate or even at a slight loss to sustain interest in the brand that can be kindled into a wider pop culture fire upon the release of a movie. MOTU can succeed and make a ton of money again, it just needs the executives to look at this in the broader picture. If Mattel wants to be a leader in the boys toys aisle again, it is going to have to devote some serious attention to the flagship boys property that will always be theirs. They won't have Batman forever. It is going to have to get the right people on the movie and be content with smaller or no profit on the flagship boys line for a time so that it can reap the right rewards later.

    I am no business expert, so maybe this view is a bit simplistic. But I know enough at the end of the day that Matty may be unwilling to put in this effort and to put up with reduced or no margins on this tiny line even if profit from other lines can sustain this loss temporarily in the hopes that it can be a billion dollar property again with the right media exposure.

    But that is not Scott's fault.
    Last edited by Skystalker; July 20, 2012 at 08:57am.
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  9. #334
    Heroic Warrior GozzoMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    It's just made me tired.
    Yes, my exact feeling too.

    Quote Originally Posted by slackrguy View Post
    I said in another thread, if Mattel stops production on the license then I hope they license the license out to the 4H.
    That would be beyond awesome!
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  10. #335
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Saying **** YOU CHERRY PICKERS is another GREAT way to show your commitment to customer service and loyalty to your customers.
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  11. #336
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    I don't get it. Mattel is an international concern. Why don't they user their logistic system and serve European customers from e.g. their European headquarters in the Netherlands. So we do not have to pay tons of custom fees, shipping would also be less expensive and we would receive our orders faster. Also this way they could sell way more subscriptions (and DOS items).

    I also think DR is not the main problem in realizing this - Logitech for an example, also uses DR and they are able to have country based Web shops. Maybe Mattel is a bit cheap when it comes to mattycollector.com and it is not pure incompetence of DR

    Instead TG want this grandiose toy line become an US only and subscriber only line.

  12. #337
    Heroic Warrior Marek's Avatar
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    Scott needs to think outside the box a bit. Sure the sub system is good for business in the short term but scare tactics will never convince cherry pickers such as myself to buy a sub. Losing customers is never a good thing in the long run.
    Matty needs to do pre-orders !!

  13. #338
    Heroic Warrior mjw41's Avatar
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    Look everyone has to know most of what Scott has said in that statement comes from upper management. True scott is no PR man but The last thing I think he wants is to cause sales to drop. He has to be honest with what managment chose. Yeah I get a little down too when reading it, but you know what I know in the end MOTUC is the strogest of any toyline MattyCollector has ever offered.

    MOTUC's surpassed JLU, DCUC's, DC Retro, Ghostbusters & Voltron. I have no doubt MOTUC's will get plenty of subscriptions sold so that we not ony are safe for 2013 but that we sail through 2014 as well.

  14. #339
    Powers of Grayskull Lord Snake Hunter's Avatar
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    The Vehicle Riders are great, but not 3 in a pack.

    Also the pack have several mistakes:

    - The sex change of the Attack Trak rider
    - The silly names
    - 75$ is too much for very obscure characters (they have been must spreaded in the line)
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  15. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-Ra View Post
    And that annoys me even further. POP and NA fans who have supported this line from the beginning only to get a mere handful of the figures they want. They have basically supported the Vintagists wants over their own for 5 years.
    I agree that the line needs more POP and NA... More POP than NA. I like NA but there are only a hand full of "cool" NA figures... so far they made 3 of the cooler ones. Hydra, Vizar, NA He-Man and Skeletor would be an acceptable end all NA collection for me. POP has seen the least love. At the very least they should release the main rebellion heavy hitters, make a Arrow for Bow and call it a day with POP... Then they could end the line if they so desire.

  16. #341
    Heroic Warrior Hosed Ovor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjw41 View Post
    Look everyone has to know most of what Scott has said in that statement comes from upper management. True scott is no PR man but The last thing I think he wants is to cause sales to drop. He has to be honest with what managment chose. Yeah I get a little down too when reading it, but you know what I know in the end MOTUC is the strogest of any toyline MattyCollector has ever offered.

    MOTUC's surpassed JLU, DCUC's, DC Retro, Ghostbusters & Voltron. I have no doubt MOTUC's will get plenty of subscriptions sold so that we not ony are safe for 2013 but that we sail through 2014 as well.
    Scott's job is to increase sales. The fact Mattel had to make an announcement concerning poor sales shows how badly he is doing. Regardless of his intentions, the decisions being made are further alienating fans. As brand manager Scott definitely plays a significant part in those decisions.

  17. #342
    Heroic Warrior Eternian Poet's Avatar
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    Are you just talking about Neitlich pushing the sub? So what - he does that every year!

    Even with the marked up prices on the secondary market, I'd still save money than if I bought a sub. Just work around. It's not a big fuss.
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  18. #343
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    The Star Sisters sold well, though. Yeah subscription numbers were down for 2012, but we were told the numbers were still way above the minimum requirement to go into production. Scott also said the day-of SS stock sold very well. They were made in the same amount as other figures. Clearly the gay.com advertisment helped and they thought they could recreate that success with a Fighting Foe Men 3-Pack. Those characters are pretty obscure to the general audience when compared to the Star Sisters.

  19. #344
    Heroic Hero Grayskull's Heir's Avatar
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    I've read the whole thread but still, despite everything that everyone has said I still don't understand it and feel very sad about this. I was so sure that subs would go up again this year. I really convinced myself of this after the great enthusiasm I felt after this year's SDCC reveals

    Awesome sticker included!

  20. #345
    "No Lashor, We Bash Ya!" Robzy's Avatar
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    So many choice quotes...

    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    But now Mr. Neitlich decides the model that this successful line was built on isnít good enough, now he tells us SUB OR DIE, and as much as I LOVE MOTU, and even though I bought a sub, with this attitude, I feel like DIE.
    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    I feel like Iím being held at gunpoint.
    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Iím not angry, I just feel...defeated.
    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    The fault lies not with the fans, not with the brand not with the horsemen, but with Mr. Neitlich and Mattel.
    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    They are letting you know how they feel with their wallets, because it's the ONLY language Mattel understands.
    All the above is brilliant! Perfectly sums up the feelings I have, except I've got a little more anger in me (as opposed to weariness).

    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    I just want to say thanks Mr Neitlich for making this experience SUCK.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosed Ovor View Post
    Scott has been steering the ship toward the rocks for a while now so none of this should come as a surprise. There have been many warnings shouted to the captain which have gone unheeded or been drowned out by the voices of other passengers. Quite frankly, I don't see the captain taking ownership of his mistakes and taking the correct action to avoid the impending, senseless wreck looming before us.
    Perfect! Totally agree... the hubris exhibited by Scott and Co has been staggering. He hasn't listened! He hasn't addressed the issues. He won't answer the questions he doesn't want to. He's responsible for the condition of the line at the moment. Pretty cool huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skystalker View Post
    But that is not Scott's fault.
    Sorry, but he's like the Captain of the Ship: he gets the praise for the good stuff; he feels the wrath for the bad! That's his JOB (as in, he's paid to do it)

    Quote Originally Posted by mjw41 View Post
    True scott is no PR man
    This I agree with!
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  21. #346
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skystalker View Post
    Look, I can't or won't defend everything Scott has ever said or done (just like I can't do that with anyone, including myself), but I think you have two assumptions here that are just false:

    "We the fans have proven that MOTU is a viable property. since the commemorative line we've kept buying, enough to show MAttel that it can make money, honestly for the last 13 years or so we've bought whatever MOTU product was put out. There are more products coming out from non mattel sources that we will buy too."

    If we've proven that Mattel can make money on the property, then why does it keep falling into danger. Sure, it lasts a couple of years each time from the burst of exuberance upon a line's initial release, but it has fizzled out (but not yet necessarily for Classics). Clearly, even with our buying, it has not yet been enough to prove that Mattel can make money long-term with this line. Now, I think that Mattel could do some things better, because for them to make real money, it is going to take a media push comparable to what is being done with Transformers or even G.I. Joe. But if people are not subscribing, we fans are proving only that we talk a lot but will not put up the funds when it comes down to the wire.

    "But now Mr. Neitlich decides the model that this successful line was built on isn’t good enough, now he tells us SUB OR DIE"
    How in the world do we know that this is Scott's decision. I can almost guarantee, for a fact, that it's not. The money people see sales and costs and tell him that the line will get canceled on an ongoing basis if the company cannot guarantee sales. It is as simple as that, and Scott has to pass on that information accordingly.

    There are a ton of things Mattel should have done by now to make the buying process more enjoyable (how about replacing DR, for one). But if interest in MOTU does not currently have enough support for a retail line, you better believe that to make the figures affordable at all, the company has to go with the cheapest shipping, handling, and ordering system available. (Although why Matty can't do it itself is beyond me).

    As a fan, I feel your frustration. In my mind, Matty should use MOTUC as a loss leader. Keep turning out the figures at a breakeven rate or even at a slight loss to sustain interest in the brand that can be kindled into a wider pop culture fire upon the release of a movie. MOTU can succeed and make a ton of money again, it just needs the executives to look at this in the broader picture. If Mattel wants to be a leader in the boys toys aisle again, it is going to have to devote some serious attention to the flagship boys property that will always be theirs. They won't have Batman forever. It is going to have to get the right people on the movie and be content with smaller or no profit on the flagship boys line for a time so that it can reap the right rewards later.

    I am no business expert, so maybe this view is a bit simplistic. But I know enough at the end of the day that Matty may be unwilling to put in this effort and to put up with reduced or no margins on this tiny line even if profit from other lines can sustain this loss temporarily in the hopes that it can be a billion dollar property again with the right media exposure.

    But that is not Scott's fault.
    it keeps fizzling because of poor management. 200x died because management decided kids only want variants. it's when the variants flooded the shelves that the interest dried up. MOTUC is in danger now because as I stated, the fans don't want to be forced into blind buying, DR issues QC issues and possibly Mr. Neitlichs attitude. (I say possibly because that is based on anecdotal evidence)

    Maybe the decision doesn't come from Mr Neitlich, but he said himself that he's in charge of how the line is run and the finances, I also said that at the end of all this it's him and Mattel not only that, the way he delivers these statments comes across as 'do this or else' I can blame him for all of that.
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  22. #347
    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Hunter View Post
    The Vehicle Riders are great, but not 3 in a pack.

    Also the pack have several mistakes:

    - The sex change of the Attack Trak rider
    - The silly names
    - 75$ is too much for very obscure characters (they have been must spreaded in the line)
    The 3 pack is the reason i only bought 1 sub, together with a lack of extra heads.
    I really don't want to get stuck with another 75$ set I don't really need.

  23. #348
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    A few things.

    -There is so much hyperbole on the internet. Just saying.

    -So this is what it looks like when a company completely throws in the towel in regards to adding new customers. I know some will say this is more hyperbole, but that is not my intent. "Essentials" always being available was a great start, but a $500 sub is going to be a tough sell to potential new blood. I'd still love to know how cost prohibitive the storage of these for a week of availability really is.

    -There was no way the line was going to last long enough to make every figure that everyone wanted. Natural progression is for people to move on once they get the toys they want. An all-inclusive line was a great idea-in theory. However, Shadow-Ra has a legitimate complaint regarding NA and POP fans essentially financing the vintage collectors. There is no way to know their numbers, but they are out there. As much as people want to champion the "it's all one universe" mentality, people have their preferences.

    -I was an advocate of preorders, but this wasn't feasible, apparently. As passionate as MOTU fans are, I'm very surprised this was never really entertained as an option.

    -I'd love to know how many subs Digital River has cost the line.
    Sadly, you can't divorce emotion from a toyline built on nostalgia.


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  24. #349
    Heroic Warrior GozzoMan's Avatar
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    525
    Quote Originally Posted by Grayskull's Heir View Post
    I really convinced myself of this after the great enthusiasm I felt after this year's SDCC reveals
    SDCC figure reveals were frigging good, the reveals about selling conditions (not only prices but all the related shenanigans) before today update were frigging bad! And today update is frigging infuriating.
    GozzoMan, Heroic Cherry Picker

  25. #350
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Westchester County, New York
    Posts
    2,042
    I think TG is obsessed with concept and newly designed figures. He seems to push those more than the MORE deserving POP and NA figures. I will speak for myself and say I'm tired of the concepts and I'm tired of figures like the FFM... Even the Start Sisters, as cool as they are should have been put on hold in favor of the heavy hitting POP ladies. Aside from the completest collectors, I'd say more fans would rather see vintage figures including POP and NA. This may be one factor as to why the wind has left the sails. I'm sure price increases play a huge role in this too.

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