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Thread: Toyguru Update on 2013 Subscriptions

  1. #526
    Spoony Bard davidlogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Adam's Dad View Post
    Man. The sticker shock for this line is insane.

    I just crunched some rough numbers for the actual, after tax and shipping cost of a subscription. I thought $505 was hefty. After paying for these other things, I came out to $690. And that's domestic. Granted, that's paying a few bucks more a month for a slight shipping upgrade. $700 for action figures is mind boggling. I have no idea how the international people have been able to hang as long as they have.

    Sorry if I'm hurting peoples' feelings, but I just can't see it. I wanted to be able to justify it. I really did. But $700 to turn around and sell most of it is just insane.
    I understand your post, but for me I'm just spending money on what I enjoy. These figures are pricey there's no doubt. But I love them. They're a great hobby and to me they're worth paying a little more for. Life is short, you should do what you enjoy and move away from the things you do not enjoy.
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  2. #527
    HAAAAAAAAAPPYYYYYYYY..... Prince Adam's Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidlogan View Post
    I understand your post, but for me I'm just spending money on what I enjoy. These figures are pricey there's no doubt. But I love them. They're a great hobby and to me they're worth paying a little more for. Life is short, you should do what you enjoy and move away from the things you do not enjoy.
    Hey, more power to you. I don't decry anyone for having the disposable income to be able to subscribe.

    I just can't justify it with a mortgage and three boys (including a freshly minted teenager) that eat like savages and will all probably want to go to college.
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  3. #528
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mekaneckpain View Post
    First of all, the line isn't ending... If you can't recognize propaganda than I'm sorry. Second, Ram Man has been sculpted... he is probably in production as we speak.
    The last 200X figures were sculpted and shown off at SDCC. The line was cancelled and they were never released. This reminds me HEAVILY of that. We saw the 200X Sorceress we had been waiting all these years for and then BAM! Line over, no Sorceress.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NastyNate View Post
    Maybe you can revise/extend the sign up period since customers were not ready for such a drastic price increase?
    That's also a VERY good point. Customers had no idea what the new price of figures were going to be until the 13th (the day subs went on sale). They didn't have the time to think it over or anything. Just BAM! Lots of more money, accept it! People need TIME!
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  4. #529
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    TG said that within 48 hours, sub sales were low compared to last year. Has it occurred to anyone that this might not be true either? I'm sure he will say anything at this point to make people buy subs. This is a critical moment for the line apparently so whatever works.

  5. #530
    HAAAAAAAAAPPYYYYYYYY..... Prince Adam's Dad's Avatar
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    With the higher figure costs and higher international shipping, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if subs were down considerably at this point.
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  6. #531
    Heroic Warrior Wulf-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Look, if you are a fan of the line it is unfortunately turning into all or nothing. I wish it was different, but it's not. That's the way things go sometimes. You can't walk into a house for sale and say "I only like these rooms, I'll pay for those and you keep the rest!"

    If you sub, you can still sell what you don't want. I imagine the secondary market will be good.

    Sometimes we have to sacrifice for things we love, and we all love MOTU. I hope people subscribe not for Mattel's benefit, or Scott's sake, but for the fan base as a whole. We really have something special with MOTUC, something a lot of us dreamed of most our lives. It would be a shame to waste this opportunity, because we may never have it again.
    This is a ridiculous analogy. MotuC isn't a house. Also, if you are buying a house and you don't like the kitchen, you can demand new appliances, or mod cons. Also, everyone else in the neighborhood isn't trying to get you to settle for a house you don't like "for the good of the neighborhood"
    Last edited by Wulf-Gar; July 21, 2012 at 04:24am.

  7. #532
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    I don't post here often, but i felt the need to do so for this topic.

    I have been a life long MOTU fan, and have supported the 200X comeback and have had a MOTUC subscription every year since the beginning.

    I have also worked in the Toy Industry as a project manager and designer the last 10 years, so i know both sides of the coin.

    From an industry perspective you have to understand that prices on all aspects of production always go up and the last 4 or 5 years have been brutal...
    Seeing 35% increases from factories in China is a huge hit and that happens yearly or sometimes twice a year.
    Tooling costs in general always go higher, its something many companies have tried to go around in the last 5 years….some have failed and those companies don’t exist anymore or have dramatically changed how they work.

    You have to consider each point of articulation has a labor cost for assembly attached to it.
    Items in soft and hard plastics need separate molds respectively, and cutting steel costs $$$$
    Packaging art and assembly cost money.
    Blisters, mailer boxes, color printing…those are all pennies and dollars that add up in the long run.
    Each application of paint costs money.

    Molds for re-use parts are doubled or tripled (copies are created)
    And after long use they start to wear out and need to be recreated….that cost big $$$!
    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Hero buck has been tooled 4-6 times since the beginning considering it’s heavy use.

    Factories are getting hit too and need to keep their profits.
    There is only so much haggling that can be done back and forth.

    A company like Mattel doing a subscription/online only line is a great thing for the fans, but it would not make sense in the overall business model of the company (or most companies)
    It would not be worth the $$$ to most companies, since they are producing nowhere near as much product as they would for a line that has mass market support.

    Having mass support is HUGE for a company and will make or break what they produce….
    Consider the 200X line…
    There was a cartoon and revival of the property.
    Mass market backed it and Mattel was able to do unique sculpts for just about every figure.
    They created tons of accessories and playsets and vehicles.
    None of that would have ever happened without the support of mass market (which was only there because a cartoon existed)
    So MOTUC, which has only nostalgia behind it is def a GIFT from Mattel to the fans.

    No factory will produce a line of product without a minimum purchase order promised in advance for the production run.
    (hence the need for Mattel to gauge their production run on subscriptions to ensure the factory that they will in fact make a certain amount and also for Matty to know that they can actually sell this amount and not be left with tons of unsold product)
    They factory may tell them they need at least 5,000 pieces of each figure (at the very very minimum, most companies would produce way more than that on any given figure in a line)

    So if the subscriptions aren’t where they should be from past experience the red flag from TG must come from a place of sincerity.

    From a fan’s perspective I know each person has their preference to faction and release order.
    Some may not want to commit to them all.
    I personally am not a fan of POP and NA but have a subscription nonetheless since I LOVE the entire mythos, think the figs come out looking really cool and want to support it all now since this line DOESN’T have to exist.
    I seriously doubt Matty is seeing huge dollars on this line.



    I also think they idea of “scare tactics” is ridiculous.
    Mattel is too huge of a company to worry about the dollars coming in from this line to tease the fans.
    There are PR people in place, I am sure, to watch every word that comes out of it’s representatives, so just saying something just to say it or tease people would never happen.
    Hell, much smaller companies would not let that fly from an HR and PR position.

    I am not making any excuse for Mattel, but I appreciate the line existing at all.
    The 200X cartoon ended and toy line was cancelled.
    For most companies a fail or the end of a line means you move on and find your $$$ elsewhere.
    So its revival must come from some genuine love and care for the brand.
    Just the fact that we are getting figures and have gotten so many to this point is an amazing thing.
    I mean Procrustus?? Tytus??? Concept figures?
    Hell they could have stuck to only vintage MOTU and not done any POP or NA.
    I love the depth of the universe, and hope it continues.

    The price increases suck, the negative vibes suck.
    But I signed up for a 2013 subscription since I love the MOTU universe.
    I can afford the $$$ spent, I totally understand those that cannot.

  8. #533
    Heroic Warrior Wulf-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsfang View Post
    well I feel we are all getting upset..so this should cheer us all up

    http://avehicleforbrownsugar.files.w...ttens-cups.jpg
    awww, so cute..I really dig these, but do i have to buy both or none at all?

  9. #534
    Court Magician DetectiveFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf-Gar View Post
    Also, everyone else in the neighborhood isn't trying to get you to settle for a house you don't like "for the good of the neighborhood"
    LOL, so true. Unless Matty is some kind of Communist state.

  10. #535
    Heroic Warrior darkmoon766's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeletortilla View Post
    Wanna bet? I just got off the phone with DR. I'm returning the two Windraiders and ten boxes of Snake Mountain stands I just bought. I'm so happy I just saved $250.
    I didn't even know the Snake mountain stands were on sale. It just took me 3 minutes to find the page to add them to cart.


    Quote Originally Posted by superheman View Post
    Are pre-orders not a possibility at ALL?
    They wouldn't necessarily compete with subs, but would require more tweaking on the website than credit card changing functionalities, which would have taken a while by the time it gets here.
    Are you kidding? These people can't even get product to sale in a format where people can find it (see previous) And have tried for 8+ months to put in there "sub management sytem" which would save them thousands of dollars on labor not having to answer phones or emails, and thousands of dollars in lost profits from incorrect credit cards not charging, effectively canceling subscriptions. You think that they could implement a Pre order system side by side with subs? Hah!
    Quote Originally Posted by mekaneckpain View Post
    Last year they said the same thing, NO EXTENSIONS... what did they do? They extended it.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGE View Post
    i think Toy Guru needs to swallow his words and leave the subscription window open long past Aug 6th, it seems that alot of people are on the fence and if they want to hit that min requirement they will need longer then 2 more weeks, because if we are now 1 week in and 50% down from last year which was at the 48 hour mark, we have problems, and if this line ends because of this, well sad day!!!!! and with all the Motu hype ie Comics-toys cross overs it just seems like a really crappy way to end the line!
    Yeah. It's only been 6 days. Last year subs were open in OCTOBER. There is a large price increase. The Fighting foe men? Monogram kits? eh? $75 plus shipping? Eh? Give it a little more time for people to think about it and get paid, and maybe keep the sub open for a whole month or 2? For all of this talk about needing subs so bad, maybe you should give people more than 3 weeks to support your whole line.
    Last edited by darkmoon766; July 20, 2012 at 04:22pm.

  11. #536
    Heroic Warrior tumalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toyking82 View Post
    i also think they idea of “scare tactics” is ridiculous
    thank you!

  12. #537
    master of hiphop
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    well said

    and my thought is, i understand where everyone is coming from, but if we don't support what we love, well it's time to move on and that is what Matty will do

    to think Matty is making millions off this line is crazy, the production is so limited and the fact that we even get to see artists like the 4 horsemen create them... come on.. round up a few extra bucks and sign up i know everyone wants to see the line continue and to keep blaming matty.. well that's just pointing the finger and really if we don't support the line as fans, we should really be only pointing the finger at ourselves.



    Quote Originally Posted by ToyKing82 View Post
    I don't post here often, but i felt the need to do so for this topic.

    I have been a life long MOTU fan, and have supported the 200X comeback and have had a MOTUC subscription every year since the beginning.

    I have also worked in the Toy Industry as a project manager and designer the last 10 years, so i know both sides of the coin.

    From an industry perspective you have to understand that prices on all aspects of production always go up and the last 4 or 5 years have been brutal...
    Seeing 35% increases from factories in China is a huge hit and that happens yearly or sometimes twice a year.
    Tooling costs in general always go higher, its something many companies have tried to go around in the last 5 years….some have failed and those companies don’t exist anymore or have dramatically changed how they work.

    You have to consider each point of articulation has a labor cost for assembly attached to it.
    Items in soft and hard plastics need separate molds respectively, and cutting steel costs $$$$
    Packaging art and assembly cost money.
    Blisters, mailer boxes, color printing…those are all pennies and dollars that add up in the long run.
    Each application of paint costs money.

    Molds for re-use parts are doubled or tripled (copies are created)
    And after long use they start to wear out and need to be recreated….that cost big $$$!
    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Hero buck has been tooled 4-6 times since the beginning considering it’s heavy use.

    Factories are getting hit too and need to keep their profits.
    There is only so much haggling that can be done back and forth.

    A company like Mattel doing a subscription/online only line is a great thing for the fans, but it would not make sense in the overall business model of the company (or most companies)
    It would not be worth the $$$ to most companies, since they are producing nowhere near as much product as they would for a line that has mass market support.

    Having mass support is HUGE for a company and will make or break what they produce….
    Consider the 200X line…
    There was a cartoon and revival of the property.
    Mass market backed it and Mattel was able to do unique sculpts for just about every figure.
    They created tons of accessories and playsets and vehicles.
    None of that would have ever happened without the support of mass market (which was only there because a cartoon existed)
    So MOTUC, which has only nostalgia behind it is def a GIFT from Mattel to the fans.

    No factory will produce a line of product without a minimum purchase order promised in advance for the production run.
    (hence the need for Mattel to gauge their production run on subscriptions to ensure the factory that they will in fact make a certain amount and also for Matty to know that they can actually sell this amount and not be left with tons of unsold product)
    They factory may tell them they need at least 5,000 pieces of each figure (at the very very minimum, most companies would produce way more than that on any given figure in a line)

    So if the subscriptions aren’t where they should be from past experience the red flag from TG must come from a place of sincerity.

    From a fan’s perspective I know each person has their preference to faction and release order.
    Some may not want to commit to them all.
    I personally am not a fan of POP and NA but have a subscription nonetheless since I LOVE the entire mythos, think the figs come out looking really cool and want to support it all now since this line DOESN’T have to exist.
    I seriously doubt Matty is seeing huge dollars on this line.



    I also think they idea of “scare tactics” is ridiculous.
    Mattel is too huge of a company to worry about the dollars coming in from this line to tease the fans.
    There are PR people in place, I am sure, to watch every word that comes out of it’s representatives, so just saying something just to say it or tease people would never happen.
    Hell, much smaller companies would not let that fly from an HR and PR position.

    I am not making any excuse for Mattel, but I appreciate the line existing at all.
    The 200X cartoon ended and toy line was cancelled.
    For most companies a fail or the end of a line means you move on and find your $$$ elsewhere.
    So its revival must come from some genuine love and care for the brand.
    Just the fact that we are getting figures and have gotten so many to this point is an amazing thing.
    I mean Procrustus?? Tytus??? Concept figures?
    Hell they could have stuck to only vintage MOTU and not done any POP or NA.
    I love the depth of the universe, and hope it continues.

    The price increases suck, the negative vibes suck.
    But I signed up for a 2013 subscription since I love the MOTU universe.
    I can afford the $$$ spent, I totally understand those that cannot.
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  13. #538
    80sMasters.com freespeach Brian Ozone's Avatar
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    Maybe Mattel wants the line to die and is proving that in a two week span it won't survive. Reading a lot of what is being said here who knows man...
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  14. #539
    Heroic Warrior darkmoon766's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToyKing82 View Post
    I don't post here often, but i felt the need to do so for this topic.....
    Nice post. Thank you for your reality check about the creation of figures in a profit driven system. Now if we can just get past the prices that we all know are rising, and fix the customer service issues, maybe we can all get somewhere.

  15. #540
    Court Magician DetectiveFork's Avatar
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    @ToyKing82, I appreciate your perspective on the industry. I can't deny that Mattel needs to have some idea of how many figures they will sell. But why not put into place an advance pre-order system for each figure instead of the sub (with the sub still as an option)? It just seems like a way to please everybody and sell even more product. For one thing, the quick sell-outs certainly mean that not everyone who wants the figures is getting them. Pre-orders can please everyone.

  16. #541
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    You know this whole thing of international fan are not real fans for backing could have been solved with oh I don't know a European disturbing centre, you know the thing international fans have been asking for from day 1
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  17. #542
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    One major vital failure on Mattel's part, regarding 2013 subs

    I am usually one of Toyguru's most ardent supporters, and will usually back most of Mattel's decisions as well--note, not all, but most.

    But there is one key decision where I think Mattel really screwed the pooch: waiting until Comic Con to announce the price increase.

    Yes, I know for many these are "economically difficult times"; but...Mattel should've already know that. They've been in business since at least the 1950s, they've already gone thru about 12 boom-and-bust economies since that time. As a company who's successfully weathered all that, they should've understand the changing market, and known how to prepare for financial setbacks. This was not considered.

    And speaking of changing markets, I fail then to understand why they were waiting til Comic Con to announce the price increase seeing as they clearly don't see any viable market for their brand past what they already have, if they're insisting from this point on it pretty much be all sub-in based sales.

    Face it: MOTUC may be pretty much the end of the road for Masters; this may be the last real chance the line has. Most of those who grew up with the brand are at a far different point in their lives now, and may be mostly moving on after this. Nostalgia can only take a property so far.

    I was actually attached to this property--at this point mainly not from nostalgia. My nostalgia time was in my late teens/early '20s, and after that I gained a brand new appreciation for the things that I fell back in love with.

    That's me, though...it doesn't appear to be most other folks.

    Outside of possibly a movie, while I think Toyguru as all the faith in the world and love possible for MOTU...I don't think Mattel does. I think they know this is likely it for the brand, and that future generations will take to He-Man about as much as collectors were eager to pick up Dorothy's Ruby Slippers on Hollywood Treasure.

    I even said that 2017 would be a perfect cutoff point for this line, and perhaps I was being a tad bit on the generous side.

    However it stands, Mattel needed/needs to let this price increase sink in for people; it doesn't bother me in the slightest...but then economics, and history( and economic history) are also two of my special interests. Basically, most people are not taking it the way I am.

    I just fail to understand why they'd invest in all that effort for Filmation, and all that money into Mattycollector if they don't even see any market for this stuff past the next few years. I honestly expected a lot more out of Mattel than that.
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  18. #543
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    Thank ya!
    I mean i totally get all the gloom and doom, being on the inside you read that stuff all the time, you are always checking out what the fans say.
    I think the coolest thing is how active TG is and the kind of insider info he gives.
    The Q&A's are awesome too
    I know companies that NEVER talk to their fans.

    lol!
    Man i hear some horror stories about DR, luckily i haven't had any probs
    *phew*


    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon766 View Post
    Nice post. Thank you for your reality check about the creation of figures in a profit driven system. Now if we can just get past the prices that we all know are rising, and fix the customer service issues, maybe we can all get somewhere.
    Come check out my illustrations!
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  19. #544
    Spoony Bard davidlogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    The last 200X figures were sculpted and shown off at SDCC. The line was cancelled and they were never released. This reminds me HEAVILY of that. We saw the 200X Sorceress we had been waiting all these years for and then BAM! Line over, no Sorceress.

    - - - Updated - - -
    The man isn't kidding! I remember that! I was up until the wee hours of the morning discussing those reveals on this very forum! That Hordak figure!!! I wanted it soooooo bad! And then...nothing! We have been through this exact situation before. Sculpted figures did not = released figures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Adam's Dad View Post
    Hey, more power to you. I don't decry anyone for having the disposable income to be able to subscribe.

    I just can't justify it with a mortgage and three boys (including a freshly minted teenager) that eat like savages and will all probably want to go to college.
    Kids and their silly aspirations!
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  20. #545
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    Well i think they pre-order thing would not only create lots more paperwork and behind the scenes stuff that may not be worth it to the company.
    I dig the idea of not having to worry about it month per month and just being set in the subscription.
    The sell-outs do seem to say that all would be ok...but i understand Matty needing to know far in advance...and in bigger chunks not just one or a few figs at a time.
    That knowledge helps them give the fans a lil more here and there in terms of accessories or whatever.

    But as to the sell-outs, those could just be them selling out of the LOWEST possible production run from a factory, ya know.
    So in big company terms that little win may not be worth all the hassle in the long run.
    Dealing with vendors in HK ain't easy!

    Are you guys thinking a pre-order system would be how much in advance of each figures release?
    just curious

    Quote Originally Posted by DetectiveFork View Post
    @ToyKing82, I appreciate your perspective on the industry. I can't deny that Mattel needs to have some idea of how many figures they will sell. But why not put into place an advance pre-order system for each figure instead of the sub (with the sub still as an option)? It just seems like a way to please everybody and sell even more product. For one thing, the quick sell-outs certainly mean that not everyone who wants the figures is getting them. Pre-orders can please everyone.
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  21. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Adam's Dad View Post
    Man. The sticker shock for this line is insane.

    I just crunched some rough numbers for the actual, after tax and shipping cost of a subscription. I thought $505 was hefty. After paying for these other things, I came out to $690. And that's domestic. Granted, that's paying a few bucks more a month for a slight shipping upgrade. $700 for action figures is mind boggling. I have no idea how the international people have been able to hang as long as they have.

    Sorry if I'm hurting peoples' feelings, but I just can't see it. I wanted to be able to justify it. I really did. But $700 to turn around and sell most of it is just insane.
    Yeah international fans pay atleast 50% more than US ones
    So this whole subbers pay for this line argument is rediculous, because as an international subber i pay even more! should i be allowed to therefore tell all US subbers they should buy 50% more subs so they can support it as much as me?

    We are all MOTU fans and any money we spend on this line is supporting the line

  22. #547
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    Anyone else notice the update on mattys main page, Concerning M.O.T.U.C.'s?
    I prefer my pop in a 12 ounce can.

  23. #548
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    I can see that a pre-order system might not be as easy to set up or manage, but I wonder if they've looked into it. Personally, I'd be willing to purchase a good number of figures on name alone, even without seeing the product. They could probably get away with illustrations of the products, if they wanted to offer a little more. Both options would provide more information than the sub, where you don't even know some of the figures you're buying. If Mattel told me characters liked Ram-Man or Mosquitor were coming months ago and gave me a chance to secure them with a pre-order, I would have jumped on the opportunity.

  24. #549
    Fighting Foe Fan Whiplash7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PusViper View Post
    Anyone else notice the update on mattys main page, Concerning M.O.T.U.C.'s?
    lol. The threats continue.


  25. #550
    Elder Councilman
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Sandusky, OH
    Posts
    3,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiplash7 View Post
    lol. The threats continue.

    Even I have to say that's pushing it a bit.
    "Whoever says money is evil...doesn't have it"- Boiler Room

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