Toyguru Update on 2013 Subscriptions

[Balthus Dire]

The sub is the sub exclusive if they're not available as DOS.

I still have a hard time believing that's true. I wouldn't doubt that Mattel has lowered their DOS numbers, but to completely eliminate some items from DOS would be absolutely stupid on their part.

[Tallestblue]

I provide carbon dioxide for plant life!

Thanks for that. I needed a laugh.

[MegaGearMax]

I want them in classics sculpt....something that fits, otherwise easy pass.....after you made love for four years with nathalie portman or jessica biel and you must return to your cute girlfriend when its over, aren't you going to be a little be ****** and have a few regrets? or at least think about the past and the better line....MOTUC is nathalie portman, obviously.

Maybe to you. For some of us, 200X was the Natalie Portman here. Unique sculpts for almost every character was practically the ultimate distance that they could. However, just because you used to date a movie star doesn't mean that quiet girl that you've now settled down with doesn't have her own special charms. Classics might reuse parts (a huge hurdle to overcome when you had TWO prior He-Man lines with unique sculpts --NA and 200X), but has features that more than make up for the loss of unique sculpts (Swappable weapons, heads, greater articulation and if anything is missing, that item might come out in the future).

It doesn't make business sense to have these guys as a three-pack in the sub. As cool as they might look, you're one of a handful of people who has a nostalgic attachment to them. They were background characters whose faces and bodies were almost completely obscured by their model kit vehicles. Most people had never seen or heard of them.

As it stands, any three-pack would have been a bad idea, although a Filmation characters three-pack would have gone down a lot better with most people.

There are a bunch of three packs that they could have done. The biggest question is the tooling.

Blade Saurod and Gwildor
Tuvar, Baddhra and Two-Bad
Rokkon, Stonedar and Granita
Horde Troopers
The last three Snake Men army builder models (maybe not so soon after the first two)
Kowl, Loo-Kee, Odiphus, Cursed Marzo, Imp, Oracle, Dree-Elle, Uncle Montork (not a three pack, but imagine the tooling)

And this thread should be retired. The line is not ending. At no time was it in real danger of being cancelled. All the bickering is pointless and tiresome.

Let's go back to talking toys. According to my Newgistics sources, that crazy, lazy-eyed ******* Spikor, as well as a Wind Raider, is only 3 or 4 weeks, and several cross-country trips away from arriving at my door! YEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAA!

No. This is a news thread concerning the fate of the line. This is probably the most important thread on this forum, if not the entire .org right now. People should be informed with up to the minute news on ANYTHING Toyguru says toward the fate of the line. This thread might start off negative, but it might not stay negative, if more fans turn this thing around.

*sigh* Why do some of you folks keep lumping The Star Sisters together with concept figures? There's a big difference between The Star Sisters and concepts in that these are characters that were actually intended to be released back in the day as the extension line for POP. (ala MOTU's Powers of Grayskull) They were advertised as "coming soon" on the back of some mini-comics and cardbacks. They had the one cartoon appearance. They were a significant part of the final issue of the POP magazine. They had a story in one of the MOTU magazines. The prototyes for Tallstar, Starla and Glorybird were officially advertised in Magic Girl Magazine...

I don't. The Star Sisters are like He-Ro, Tytus and Megator--all characters that would have come out, but didn't get produced because the line tanked. Just where Ram Man, Jitsu and Netossa are right now.

I would have been happy with King He-Man or Eldor. However, with the amount of people that complained about Preternia Disguise He-Man, I just don't know that Eldor would have gone over any better than KHM did!

At least Eldor is a known non-variant character that people have been wanting since the line began.

[The Riding Ghost]

From http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve...7/m/2131031767
Toyguru on the subject of shipping multiple months worth of items to save on shipping.
"We looked into things like this and it just isn't possible right now."
That's funny that's exactly how many feel about your subscription plan.
Boom.

Best. Post. Ever.
So True.

RG

[Barezz]

I agree Agent Gibbs. Everyone plays a role, and no one is better than another as far as I am concerned.

2013 is the first year I have subbed. Does that mean that I have been 'second class" for the past few years? Of course not, and certainly not anymore than it means that I'm suddenly better than those who don't sub.

It sucks that subs are being pushed as the only way to go, but that is not in the control of any of us. No point in getting nasty with each other when in the end we all care about MOTUC.

I say that if you can afford the sub, go for it. if you hate a figure chances are someone who couldn't get the sub doesn't. Kind of a happy little circle of life thing.

[the_ultimate_evil]

It's not an official image. In the lower right hand corner you can see "Bock" as in "Mike Bock."
The image doesn't say true fan on it though... just a fan.

I certainly don't think you have to buy a sub to be a true fan. But if you're a fan and can, buying a sub isn't a bad thing.
I hate the term true fan. If you like something, your'e a fan. Period. No need for subcategories or levels.

And yet it's a term that is threw around here quite a bit, and usually In connection with the sub. Hell people who can't afford or just plain state they don't want to buy one, have been called cheap, cherry pickers and haters. Been told to simply get better jobs and even to not bother coming to the org.

I decided at the start of this line I was buying select figures he-man, she-ra, skeletor and hordak. Mainly due to space nothing more. I have got these and battle cat which was a gift. So I'm not even a cherry picker but I have been a fan of this line in all versions from the mid 80s till this day. I have had my artwork included in both the uk DVDs and the mvc comic. And have made a personal project to convert as many characters from both Motu and pop to the pc game freedom force to be usable for the fans.

And to be told I'm not a real fan because I can not afford to pay £50($80) for a single action figure is bloody insult. And I apologise for going off in this rant and this is not aimed at you but the fact a lot of members have said to hell with it on both the line,site and property as a whole says a lot about this new mentality

[Nemisythe]

I would have been happy with King He-Man or Eldor. However, with the amount of people that complained about Preternia Disguise He-Man, I just don't know that Eldor would have gone over any better than KHM did!

But do you think Eldor would've at least been the stronger of the two? Considering he was a figure due to come out in the original line, he's in the mini and seems to play a slightly bigger role than just an image of King He-Man. And most importantly it wouldn't be just another variant of He-Man. But I may have answered my own question by stating such, maybe '(cause the majority would want Eldor as a monthly.

[Baddwarff]

I am trying to keep up with all of the news, but there is just too many sources. There has been some talk about DOS for 2013. Is it definitely gone or is it just a possibility? That is of course the line continues. Before I get flamed (does anyone use that expression anymore?), I have already purchased two subscriptions.

Additionally, if the line dies, do subscription holders get first crack at the 2013 figures that have already been tooled?

Thanks.

[Crusader]

I want them in classics sculpt....something that fits, otherwise easy pass.....after you made love for four years with nathalie portman or jessica biel and you must return to your cute girlfriend when its over, aren't you going to be a little be ****** and have a few regrets? or at least think about the past and the better line....
MOTUC is nathalie portman, obviously.

I wouldn't touch Nathalie Portman with a stick. I like curvy women, like Keeley Hazell, Jessica Simpson, Natasha Henstridge or Christina Hendricks. Anyway, I think every MOTU toyline (except NA) has its own merits and charm. The classics sculpts are awesome, no question about it, but so were the 200X sculpts. The colours in Classics are better, but the plastic is cheaper and gets more easily damaged than the 200X toys. I don't even dare to put weapons in their hands anymore since I gave Keldor a sword with a full handle and it created a terrible stressmark on one of his fingers. Some plastic is already cracking or rotting after one year, my 200X are still pristine. From all my 200X characters only one has a paint splotch, Classics are riddled with messy or missing paint apps. So, by your analogy if my cute girlfriend is 200X quality (which also had its flaws: the molded colours were a bit flat and didn't do justice to the sculpt, the figures had to be positioned in a "hey, look at my groin" position or they wouldn't stand, etc) I won't have regrets getting her back.

To each their own, of course, and there's still plenty of characters I want to see in MOTUC before it ends, but when it does, I will gladly collect the same characters in a different style (provided that I like the new style, I don't care for Attitubes, Mini-Mates and overly stylized sculpts).

[MegaGearMax]

Toyguru speaketh!

If Mattel Is Finishing Vintage MOTU By 2014, Does 2015 Belong To POP?

I'm hoping Mattel will finish off characters that will probably get left behind in 2013 and 2014, including the winning classic toy versions of the Star Sisters, Perfuma, Flutterina, Mermista, Entrapta, Sweet Bee, Starburst She-Ra, Original toy version Catra...to name but a few.

By the end of 2014 our goal is to hit all the major POP and NA and vintage MOTU and Filmation. Many many will be in our already locked in 2013 line (that is fantastic I might add!)

We won't get to EVERY POP and NA and Filmation by 2014, but we can always hit the last remaining POP, FM or NA figs that didn't make a full year program in 2013 or 2014 with a few strategic convention figs or other programs beyond 2014.

We're still reviewing options based on where we end up with 2013 subs on how we can continue the line.

Oh, and if I forgot to mention, there will NOT be a price increase in 2014. One of the reasons we went to 25.00 is to try and hold this price for at least 2-3 years.

[Crusader]

I am trying to keep up with all of the news, but there is just too many sources. There has been some talk about DOS for 2013. Is it definitely gone or is it just a possibility? That is of course the line continues. Before I get flamed (does anyone use that expression anymore?), I have already purchased two subscriptions.

DOS is not gone, but quantities will be extremely limited or for certain figures non-existent (which is strange because I tought TG used to say they couldn't vary the amount of units for each individual character and all figures were produced in the same amount).

[Nemisythe]

The Fighting Foe Men 3 pack does cost too much, and it doens't make a whole lot of sense to me. As someone else mentioned, why not a Wind Raider figure? Some of us actually have one of those.

Also, how am I supposed to display them? Sitting around a table playing cards and dreaming of what it would be like to have their respective vehicles?

Getting old together like the Golden Girls cause we'll never see vehicles!

[horseman1981]

I wonder what direction a new line would take,perhaps we will see statements such as.... The vintage look is retired.....we are focusing on what the super anime hyper flair series would have done.

When the classics is finished or slows down, I think the time of myp should start. I would love that series finished and expanded. I know that may be unpopular with many but I would love to have a huge myp collection.

[Uncle Montork]

I WANT to believe what TG/PD say about 2013 and the future of MOTU/MOTUC, but I keep getting a Beyond Belief vibe from it all...

gfrakes001.jpg

"Is all this news about the 2013 sub being ok true? Or, is one of our writers trying to subvert Toyguru?"

[gbagok]

But do you think Eldor would've at least been the stronger of the two? Considering he was a figure due to come out in the original line, he's in the mini and seems to play a slightly bigger role than just an image of King He-Man. And most importantly it wouldn't be just another variant of He-Man. But I may have answered my own question by stating such, maybe '(cause the majority would want Eldor as a monthly.

I think Eldor makes a good candidate for an SDCC exclusive actually because that's what He-Ro was before him and that kind of makes him perfect for being not too big and not too small for that slot. I could be wrong, I'm no mind reader. But I think you are right, he was too strong a character for the sub exclusive based on their stated intent not to use a big name like Shadow Weaver again (not sure they should stick to this in 2014, since every slot needs to count for the sake of completing as many long-time wants as possible).

[yodafreakmaster]

I have to agree also.... "King He-Man".. [so far]...is the weakest Sub exclusive EVER....

I respect your opinion, but I think he is the best yet, other than Shadow Weaver of course.

[Bahumit]

As longtime MOTU fan and someone still green on the forums here, I think we need to be mindful of how we are alienating one another in the comments. Some of us need to focus our frustrations to the issue at hand which appear to be with why we like and do not like subs and how 3-Packs pricing is affecting sub purchases.

To defend Mattel, I would say releaseing all the popular characters would have decreased subs faster because there would be no fan demand to purchase subs, only DOS. AS muchas I hate waiting, I like that a few good ones come out each year as it keeps me coming back for more. To put subs in to perspecitve, go to WalMart, Taget, Toys R Us, and KMART and look on the shelves and tell me how many Transformers Prime Bumblee and Cliff Jumper figures you see on the shelf. That's the kind of stock Mattel would have if they only relied on DOS. Subscriptions let them make enough to satisy subscriptions and then make a extras to cover what 2-3 days of DOS. Spikor, so far, has doen the best lasting 3-4 days before selling out, so they do have thier numbers right.

Let's stop bashing one another. We are all fans and are frustrated at seeing our favorite line go away again. Let's talk about that.

[Garthantula]

ToyGuru, what's the product you're trying to sell here? Is it the subscription or the toys? Your acting as though Mattel is a subscription manufacturer instead of a toy manufacturer, and if demand isn't high enough you're not going manufacture any subs.

Remember, the toys are your product. The toys, not the subscriptions. Selling subscriptions is merely a distribution method for your product, and as the 2012 and 2013 sales demonstrate they are not very effective when focused on exclusively.

There are three great benefits to subscriptions: (1) They provide convenience to customers who want the entire product line; (2) they provide incentive to people who would buy most of a product run to go ahead and buy the entire product line; and (3) they provide manufacturers the assurance of guaranteed sales. Because of these benefits, subscriptions can be a valuable supplement to other distribution methods.

However, when relied upon as an exclusive method of distribution, subscriptions have some crippling disadvantages.

(1) They guarantee that supply will be insufficient to meet demand. Customers are forced into an artificial "buy everything or buy nothing" dilemma, and the sales that are gained by those who move up to "buy everything" are a mere fraction of the sales that are lost by those who move down to "buy nothing." The revenue lost is not insignificant.

(2) They dissuade new customers. Very few people become so instantly enamored by their first exposure to a new product that they commit to the entire product line. Whether its toys, magazines, or cosmetics, that type of consumer loyalty is built gradually, one product at a time. The subscriptions so restrict access to the very products they are intended to promote that a potential new customer has almost no opportunity to build loyalty before deciding between "buy everything or buy nothing".

(3) They prevent growth of your product. Even if a significant number of new customers want to subscribe to a line, production numbers are fixed and cannot respond to the increase in demand.

(4) They enhance customer dissatisfaction with niche items. Because customers have to get everything in order to get anything, customers expect that most product offerings will appeal to their taste. Because these customers don't have the choice of simply not buying products that do not appeal to them, their only recourse if too many of these offering are presented is to stop being a customer.

When looked at side by side, the negatives of a subscription-only sales model far outweigh the positives, and adoption of such a model will inevitably lead to a decline in overall sales. It's the only possible outcome. You cannot grow your sales when you adopt a model which deliberately produces beneath demand and alienates customers substantially easier than it attracts them.

I want to know why Matty doggedly insists on basing production off of subscription sales rather than actual demand. Surely enough sales data has been collected since 2008 that a competent analyst could reasonably predict how much to produce without even factoring subs in.

Matty, your subscription is much less marketable than your action figures. Regardless of their love for the toys, your subscription has many features and limitations that consumer just don't like. Stop equating dissatisfaction with subscriptions with disinterest in your real product, the toys. Make enough to meet demand, and have confidence that your product will sell. That's the only way to keep any of your lines alive, much less see them grow and prosper.

[dorrmann]

Guys, this infighting has to stop. It's fine to discuss and disagree. It's fine to debate. Finger pointing, accusations, and all this "true fan" stuff has to stop. Trying to lay blame on a fan or a group of fans for any reason is completely unfair and not cool.

Let's work together to make this brand continue and thrive, not fight with each other and throw out accusations that are simply unfounded.

- - - Updated - - -

Guys, this infighting has to stop. It's fine to discuss and disagree. It's fine to debate. Finger pointing, accusations, and all this "true fan" stuff has to stop. Trying to lay blame on a fan or a group of fans for any reason is completely unfair and not cool.

Let's work together to make this brand continue and thrive, not fight with each other and throw out accusations that are simply unfounded.

[Nemisythe]

I think Eldor makes a good candidate for an SDCC exclusive actually because that's what He-Ro was before him and that kind of makes him perfect for being not too big and not too small for that slot. I could be wrong, I'm no mind reader. But I think you are right, he was too strong a character for the sub exclusive based on their stated intent not to use a big name like Shadow Weaver again (not sure they should stick to this in 2014, since every slot needs to count for the sake of completing as many long-time wants as possible).

Agreed, thanks. Opinion on King He-man in that same topic? Just curious...

[Bahumit]

Garthantula has made the best argument thus far and I hope TG reads that. That is basic selling right there. As has been stated numerous times, Mattel uses subscriptions only to gauge who is willing to blindly commit to the line for the following year and buy everything. I wish we could see the data for their lowest subscription year and what figures were the fastest "day of" sellouts.

[gbagok]

Well as far as 3-packs, I really like the Fighting Foe Men. I like them better than Star Sisters because by comparison the SS looked--IMO--very bland and bare of detail which made me feel that the blandness of the first She-Ra release was potentially an on-going problem with PoP figures. Heck even Tallstar who campaigned for them wasn't totally happy with the figures, and I'm a PoP fan too and I thought they looked too bare, so is it any wonder that many fans didn't like that? I don't know, maybe the Star Sister were never going to be a good front line release for PoP in MOTUC, but whatever the case I can tell from the FFM that three-packs aren't as flawed an idea as I had felt looking at the Sisters. I still don't know how I like the idea of a three pack that might have one defective figure (as was also my experience with the Sisters), but think fans would accept a three pack in 2014 if it completed major groups like the movie characters Blade/Saurod/Gwildor or maybe the Rock People. The Two-Bad three pack would be great, but I dare say not as great.

Agreed, thanks. Opinion on King He-man in that same topic? Just curious...

IMO he fits the sub exclusive slot very well since he kind of plays right off of PD He-Man (which I liked however, so if you didn't like that one then King He-Man might be less appealing too). They gave him a nice deco and a cool accessory too I thought. Mostly King He-Man just makes me anxious for the Dare/He-Ro figure or the son of Skeletor character. I really hope that Toyguru depends on the Horsemen to make that last one a hit because he's potentially a very reviled character, being new and somewhat controversial.

[JonWes]

I respect your opinion, but I think he is the best yet, other than Shadow Weaver of course.

I like him much better than Wundar (who was kinda blah to me... I didn't subscribe that year) and Preternia He-man (who was pretty fun, but visually is a bit lacking) for sure.

[Lord_Of_Destruction]

Sometimes Matty can't win. Shadow Weaver is the exclusive for 2012 and some people freak out saying you shouldn't have such a popular charatcer as a sub-exclusive. So they put in King He-Man and now some are saying it should be someone more desirable like Ram-Man...lol.

If it was Ram-Man people would be burning down Mattel headquarters right now.

It should be a character but not a variant. Someone who's not just another version of the same guy, but not in such high demand that non subscribers will feel left out. Wun-Dar was borderline since he really was just a repainted He-Man but was marketed as an individual character and after all Faker is just a repainted He-Man. Shadow Weaver was not okay because she was one of the most fan demanded characters ever and should have been a regular release. Horde Prime was going to be the sub exclusive and he's more along the lines of what I'm talking about since many fans don't like the idea of the character. When King He-Man's pictures first started being shown at the panel before the name was shown you could hear people in the audience muttering that they thought it was King Miro (and let's face it there is a strong resemblance) Someone like that works better.

I wouldn't touch Nathalie Portman with a stick.

You're nuts. I mean to each their own and yes those others you mentioned are attractive, but you seem to be implying you don't think Natalie is attractive at all. Inconcievable! Oh well I shouldn't complain that just means less competition for me!

[blogjammer]

Why would I buy a sub? If I bought one for 2012 I would have been left with star sisters,draego man, shadow weaver, photog, slush head, spector, Griffin, vykron, sir laser lot, cy chop, dekker, procrustus, frosta, king randor & the snake men 2 pack - none of which I could care less about.

Already for 2013 I know I dont want King He-Man, Netossa, Fang Man, Strobo & the fighting foe men. 5 out of the 7 releases revealed so far!

Why would I want to pay not only for all these figures that I don't want AS WELL as the shipping & customer charges to Australia.

It'll probably cost a little more to get them elsewhere from a retailer who has subs but they'll be shipped faster & arrive sooner & will still cost less than the cost incurred for a bunch of stuff that I dont want.

No sub for me.